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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2007,11:23) Hi not3,
We must put together what is written
and not filter it through human understanding.
Yes. Amen!
Did Jesus undergo a different type of conception process than we did? Trinitarians would say so – they believe in the incarnation, which is not conception at all (thus denying the Son of God in the flesh). Nick would say so – for his Jesus was a preexistent son who came down from heaven only to don flesh through Mary (not a combination at all, thus also denying the Son of God in the flesh).
What do other's think? Some don't think it matters. But I do.
God tells Abraham that a servant will not be his heir, but a son from *his own body* will be his heir.
God also allows for adoption to serve as legitimate bases of sonship – they can also be heirs.Jesus was not adopted. However, he was conceived in Mary by God's holy spirit.
Jesus is a true heir through birth, from *God's own body* as it were.
God has “qualified” us to also be adopted through Christ.
God has “qualified” us to be co-heirs with Christ.How are we QUALIFIED to be adopted? You must adopt after your own “kind.” We adopt children, not animals, for instance.
God is Spirit – we are not his “kind.”
Jesus is God's Son – he is both Son of Man and Son of God – when we are born-again, we are his “kind.”
Ah….the qualification!!Jesus is a new creation. We are also new creations when we are born-again!
We are acceptable to God because Jesus is born of God, and of Man.
We can be adopted.If Jesus is anything other-than the true and legitimate biological Son of God…….how are we qualified to be adopted by God?
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 31 2007,04:27) Did Jesus undergo a different type of conception process than we did? Trinitarians would say so – they believe in the incarnation, which is not conception at all (thus denying the Son of God in the flesh). Nick would say so – for his Jesus was a preexistent son who came down from heaven only to don flesh through Mary (not a combination at all, thus also denying the Son of God in the flesh). What do other's think? Some don't think it matters. But I do.
God tells Abraham that a servant will not be his heir, but a son from *his own body* will be his heir.
God also allows for adoption to serve as legitimate bases of sonship – they can also be heirs.Jesus was not adopted. However, he was conceived in Mary by God's holy spirit.
Jesus is a true heir through birth, from *God's own body* as it were.
God has “qualified” us to also be adopted through Christ.
God has “qualified” us to be co-heirs with Christ.How are we QUALIFIED to be adopted? You must adopt after your own “kind.” We adopt children, not animals, for instance.
God is Spirit – we are not his “kind.”
Jesus is God's Son – he is both Son of Man and Son of God – when we are born-again, we are his “kind.”
Ah….the qualification!!Jesus is a new creation. We are also new creations when we are born-again!
We are acceptable to God because Jesus is born of God, and of Man.
We can be adopted.If Jesus is anything other-than the true and legitimate biological Son of God…….how are we qualified to be adopted by God?
Good afternoon Sister,
Thank you for your encourgaging words yesterday. I have been meaning to get back to you on this for awhile.Here are my thoughts-
Adam was God’s son, Luke 3:38, son of Enos, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.Adam sinned and was a child no longer to God, but became a child of wrath.
We are descendents of Adam born into a cursed world, subjected to the means of survival, and therefore being drawn to a weak flesh we sin abundantly. When sin is found in us we become children of wrath, and cannot be seen as children of God.
In this light we can see why Jesus is called God’s only Son. As long as Jesus remained without sin, he continued to be a child of God, and never became a child of wrath. Of course by the power of God’s foreknowledge, God knew that Jesus would never become a child of wrath.
Ephesians 2:1 You were dead through the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. 3 All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been save 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God's seed abides in them; they cannot sin, because they have been born of God. 10 The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love their brothers and sisters.
We know the law does not perfect, but condemn, and that it is the Holy Spirit which perfects. God sent in abundance, to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, keeping him sinless in the flesh and strengthening him in his mind.
As we were born under the penalty of Adam and given death, God saw it fit that we be resurrected under the reward of Jesus, and be given eternal life if we believe in him.
Romans 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man's trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many. 16 And the free gift is not like the effect of the one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification.
As we adopt (take on or take up) death due to Adam, we will adopt eternal life due to Jesus paying for our sins.
Romans 8:23 – and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies.
Galatians 4:5 – in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children.
Ephesians 1:5 – He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will,Through Christ mankind can be freed from sin and receive eternal life, because their sins have been paid for. Because we are sinless in Christ, we are no longer children of wrath but are back to being children of God. We take up (adopt) eternal life through Jesus, because he was deserving and we were not.
Romans 8:23 tells us that adoption represents eternal life
Reading Galatians 4:5 and Ephesians 1:5 in this light, I believe is the proper way to interpret the scriptures.The Holy Spirit works in us to bring us to the Father. God calls us by His Spirit to learn about Him through Christ. Christ is our mediator, because it is only through God’s work in Him that are sins are forgiven. Christ is our example of how to let the Spirit work in us as it did in him. Christ created the possibility for us to receive eternal life, however it is by the Holy Spirit working in us, that brings our minds and hearts to accepting the will of our Father.
As Christ adopted (took on) the Spirit of God, so shall we adopt God's Spirit.
Adam was created by God, and Jesus was begotten by God.
Does this mean that Adam and Jesus were biologically different? Well not if they are both human beings, which the bible clearly states they are.Adam was created by God, he was not born through the action of two humans, but created through the action of God. Jesus was begotten by God, he was not born through the action of two humans, he was born through the action of God.
The bible confirms that the use of beget does not restrict the meaning to only represent the creation of something using your personal substance. It can simply mean that you have caused something to exist, or come about, as the dictionary confirms as well.
I believe the bible is clear that Jesus was begotten by God through the Holy Spirit and we TOO are begotten by God through the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 1:20 – And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, `Joseph, son of David, thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten [is] of the Holy Spirit,
(Is Jesus the only Son because he is of God’s literal substance, or is he God's only Son because he was foreknown to remain sinless through God's Holy Spirit?)John 1:13 – who — not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but — of God were begotten. (Is this saying that Jesus is created with God’s literal substance, or is it saying that Jesus was created through the direct will of God?)
1 Joh
n 2:28 And now, little children, remain in him, that when he may be manifested, we may have boldness, and may not be ashamed before him, in his presence; 29 if ye know that he is righteous, know ye that every one doing the righteousness, of him hath been begotten.Neither Adam, or Jesus had biological fathers as we do, because we were conceived by the action of two humans. Adam was formed out of the dust of the earth, which means scientifically that God took the parts of the elements from the periodic table and gathered them together to cause Adam to be formed into a human being. If you know basic science you know that everything existing in nature is made up of the elements present in the periodic table. God has intelligently and wondrously created different things living and non living through arranging the elements into different ways.
God caused Jesus to come into existence by supplying Mary’s egg with the materials from the periodic table that is necessary to create a human being. Thus making him TRUTHFULLY human and not part human and part God. We were caused to come into existence by the action of our parents, where as, Adam and Jesus were caused to come into action by God. We are all however, products of God’s creative intelligence. Luke 3:28 tells me that God created/begat Adam and that is why in the scripture it says Adam is His son. We therefore are all children of God, being descendants of Adam. In the beginning of God creating the earth He begot many things, animals, plants etc…, one thing that he did not beget is sin. We know, from Romans 5:12 that Adam begat sin into the world. That sin separated us from God’s life and made us corruptible. If God is in us then we are His children, if corruption is in us we are not.
Like I mentioned before-God made the requirement of the Messiah to be a Royal heir and a blood heir of David. The only way Jesus could receive rights to the Royal line is through adoption because the blood line of the Royal line was cursed. Jesus needed to be adopted by someone of the Royal line, that way he could be a legal air but without the blood curse. Joseph was of the Royal line of David, and therefore was the perfect candidate for being an adoptive father. Jesus received the necessary requirement of the blood line of David through Mary. Mary had no curse because she was not of the Royal line, which started from Solomon, she was from one of David’s other sons Nathan. God would not see fit to have Mary get pregnant by another man when she was betrothed to Joseph, so he supplied her egg with a human sperm.
What is it that God shares of Himself that can make us holy and perfect? Do we need to share in His biology? Or do we need to share in His way of thinking?
To be like Jesus means to share in like mind with God. I do not see it necessary, nor do I see biblical proof, that Jesus had to be part of God’s physical substance in order to become of like mind with Him. The bible is clear that it is through the Holy Spirit working in all of us that we become like minded with God.
Isaiah 11:1 A shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots. 2 The spirit of the Lord shall rest on him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
1 Cor 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
Romans 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption.
If the Spirit, which God gives according to His will in different measures, dwells in you and is loved by you, and you let it lead you, instead of your carnal mind, you are a child of God, as Jesus was a child of God. Jesus opened the door for our salvation, but we must let God’s spirit work in us to get us through the door.
Because of Adam the door to eternal life was shut do to sin.
Because of Jesus the door to eternal life was re-opened do to righteousness.
By God’s Spirit working in us and we embracing it into our hearts do we enter God’s eternal kingdom.Quote (Not3in1 @ July 31 2007,04:27) Did Jesus undergo a different type of conception process than we did? Trinitarians would say so – they believe in the incarnation, which is not conception at all (thus denying the Son of God in the flesh). Nick would say so – for his Jesus was a preexistent son who came down from heaven only to don flesh through Mary (not a combination at all, thus also denying the Son of God in the flesh). What do other's think? Some don't think it matters. But I do.
God tells Abraham that a servant will not be his heir, but a son from *his own body* will be his heir.
God also allows for adoption to serve as legitimate bases of sonship – they can also be heirs.Jesus was not adopted. However, he was conceived in Mary by God's holy spirit.
Jesus is a true heir through birth, from *God's own body* as it were.
God has “qualified” us to also be adopted through Christ.
God has “qualified” us to be co-heirs with Christ.How are we QUALIFIED to be adopted? You must adopt after your own “kind.” We adopt children, not animals, for instance.
God is Spirit – we are not his “kind.”
Jesus is God's Son – he is both Son of Man and Son of God – when we are born-again, we are his “kind.”
Ah….the qualification!!Jesus is a new creation. We are also new creations when we are born-again!
We are acceptable to God because Jesus is born of God, and of Man.
We can be adopted.If Jesus is anything other-than the true and legitimate biological Son of God…….how are we qualified to be adopted by God?
Hi not3,
Wrong again.
God was truly the physical father of Jesus.
Jesus was truly a man not a new creation, a half man.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2007,06:47) God was truly the physical father of Jesus.
What does this mean?Quote (Jodi @ July 31 2007,06:40) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 31 2007,04:27) Did Jesus undergo a different type of conception process than we did? Trinitarians would say so – they believe in the incarnation, which is not conception at all (thus denying the Son of God in the flesh). Nick would say so – for his Jesus was a preexistent son who came down from heaven only to don flesh through Mary (not a combination at all, thus also denying the Son of God in the flesh). What do other's think? Some don't think it matters. But I do.
God tells Abraham that a servant will not be his heir, but a son from *his own body* will be his heir.
God also allows for adoption to serve as legitimate bases of sonship – they can also be heirs.Jesus was not adopted. However, he was conceived in Mary by God's holy spirit.
Jesus is a true heir through birth, from *God's own body* as it were.
God has “qualified” us to also be adopted through Christ.
God has “qualified” us to be co-heirs with Christ.How are we QUALIFIED to be adopted? You must adopt after your own “kind.” We adopt children, not animals, for instance.
God is Spirit – we are not his “kind.”
Jesus is God's Son – he is both Son of Man and Son of God – when we are born-again, we are his “kind.”
Ah….the qualification!!Jesus is a new creation. We are also new creations when we are born-again!
We are acceptable to God because Jesus is born of God, and of Man.
We can be adopted.If Jesus is anything other-than the true and legitimate biological Son of God…….how are we qualified to be adopted by God?
Good afternoon Sister,
Thank you for your encourgaging words yesterday. I have been meaning to get back to you on this for awhile.Here are my thoughts-
Adam was God’s son, Luke 3:38, son of Enos, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.Adam sinned and was a child no longer to God, but became a child of wrath.
We are descendents of Adam born into a cursed world, subjected to the means of survival, and therefore being drawn to a weak flesh we sin abundantly. When sin is found in us we become children of wrath, and cannot be seen as children of God.
In this light we can see why Jesus is called God’s only Son. As long as Jesus remained without sin, he continued to be a child of God, and never became a child of wrath. Of course by the power of God’s foreknowledge, God knew that Jesus would never become a child of wrath.
Ephesians 2:1 You were dead through the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. 3 All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been save 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God's seed abides in them; they cannot sin, because they have been born of God. 10 The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love their brothers and sisters.
We know the law does not perfect, but condemn, and that it is the Holy Spirit which perfects. God sent in abundance, to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, keeping him sinless in the flesh and strengthening him in his mind.
As we were born under the penalty of Adam and given death, God saw it fit that we be resurrected under the reward of Jesus, and be given eternal life if we believe in him.
Romans 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man's trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many. 16 And the free gift is not like the effect of the one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification.
As we adopt (take on or take up) death due to Adam, we will adopt eternal life due to Jesus paying for our sins.
Romans 8:23 – and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies.
Galatians 4:5 – in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children.
Ephesians 1:5 – He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will,Through Christ mankind can be freed from sin and receive eternal life, because their sins have been paid for. Because we are sinless in Christ, we are no longer children of wrath but are back to being children of God. We take up (adopt) eternal life through Jesus, because he was deserving and we were not.
Romans 8:23 tells us that adoption represents eternal life
Reading Galatians 4:5 and Ephesians 1:5 in this light, I believe is the proper way to interpret the scriptures.The Holy Spirit works in us to bring us to the Father. God calls us by His Spirit to learn about Him through Christ. Christ is our mediator, because it is only through God’s work in Him that are sins are forgiven. Christ is our example of how to let the Spirit work in us as it did in him. Christ created the possibility for us to receive eternal life, however it is by the Holy Spirit working in us, that brings our minds and hearts to accepting the will of our Father.
As Christ adopted (took on) the Spirit of God, so shall we adopt God's Spirit.
Adam was created by God, and Jesus was begotten by God.
Does this mean that Adam and Jesus were biologically different? Well not if they are both human beings, which the bible clearly states they are.Adam was created by God, he was not born through the action of two humans, but created through the action of God. Jesus was begotten by God, he was not born through the action of two humans, he was born through the action of God.
The bible confirms that the use of beget does not restrict the meaning to only represent the creation of something using your personal substance. It can simply mean that you have caused something to exist, or come about, as the dictionary confirms as well.
I believe the bible is clear that Jesus was begotten by God through the Holy Spirit and we TOO are begotten by God through the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 1:20 – And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, `Joseph, son of David, thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten [is] of the Holy Spirit,
(Is Jesus the only Son because he is of God’s literal substance, or is he God's only Son because he was foreknown to remain sinless through God's Holy Spirit?)John 1:13 – who — not of blood nor of
a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but — of God were begotten. (Is this saying that Jesus is created with God’s literal substance, or is it saying that Jesus was created through the direct will of God?)1 John 2:28 And now, little children, remain in him, that when he may be manifested, we may have boldness, and may not be ashamed before him, in his presence; 29 if ye know that he is righteous, know ye that every one doing the righteousness, of him hath been begotten.
Neither Adam, or Jesus had biological fathers as we do, because we were conceived by the action of two humans. Adam was formed out of the dust of the earth, which means scientifically that God took the parts of the elements from the periodic table and gathered them together to cause Adam to be formed into a human being. If you know basic science you know that everything existing in nature is made up of the elements present in the periodic table. God has intelligently and wondrously created different things living and non living through arranging the elements into different ways.
God caused Jesus to come into existence by supplying Mary’s egg with the materials from the periodic table that is necessary to create a human being. Thus making him TRUTHFULLY human and not part human and part God. We were caused to come into existence by the action of our parents, where as, Adam and Jesus were caused to come into action by God. We are all however, products of God’s creative intelligence. Luke 3:28 tells me that God created/begat Adam and that is why in the scripture it says Adam is His son. We therefore are all children of God, being descendants of Adam. In the beginning of God creating the earth He begot many things, animals, plants etc…, one thing that he did not beget is sin. We know, from Romans 5:12 that Adam begat sin into the world. That sin separated us from God’s life and made us corruptible. If God is in us then we are His children, if corruption is in us we are not.
Like I mentioned before-God made the requirement of the Messiah to be a Royal heir and a blood heir of David. The only way Jesus could receive rights to the Royal line is through adoption because the blood line of the Royal line was cursed. Jesus needed to be adopted by someone of the Royal line, that way he could be a legal air but without the blood curse. Joseph was of the Royal line of David, and therefore was the perfect candidate for being an adoptive father. Jesus received the necessary requirement of the blood line of David through Mary. Mary had no curse because she was not of the Royal line, which started from Solomon, she was from one of David’s other sons Nathan. God would not see fit to have Mary get pregnant by another man when she was betrothed to Joseph, so he supplied her egg with a human sperm.
What is it that God shares of Himself that can make us holy and perfect? Do we need to share in His biology? Or do we need to share in His way of thinking?
To be like Jesus means to share in like mind with God. I do not see it necessary, nor do I see biblical proof, that Jesus had to be part of God’s physical substance in order to become of like mind with Him. The bible is clear that it is through the Holy Spirit working in all of us that we become like minded with God.
Isaiah 11:1 A shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots. 2 The spirit of the Lord shall rest on him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
1 Cor 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
Romans 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption.
If the Spirit, which God gives according to His will in different measures, dwells in you and is loved by you, and you let it lead you, instead of your carnal mind, you are a child of God, as Jesus was a child of God. Jesus opened the door for our salvation, but we must let God’s spirit work in us to get us through the door.
Because of Adam the door to eternal life was shut do to sin.
Because of Jesus the door to eternal life was re-opened do to righteousness.
By God’s Spirit working in us and we embracing it into our hearts do we enter God’s eternal kingdom.
Some very interesting ideas here, Jodi. Thanks for taking the time to share them with me.Of course I don't agree with all of your points, but I can certainly see how you came up with them. I'll ponder this some more, thanks again.
Question to all,
Where in scripture did God change the meaning of what conception meant, that we should have all these different ideas?
Where in scripture did God change the meaning of what a son means, so that a son is no longer an offspring of two parents?Angels are sons, yes, but they will not inherit anything…….they minster to those who will inherit!
Hi not3,
The sons of God who rejoiced when the foundations of earth were laid had one parent-God.
We must not try to align the heavenly according to pathetic man.A true, legitimate son (according to scripture) is one who inherits his Father's estate.
The sons of God who are the heavenly hosts do not inherit anything…..they minister to those who will!
Heavenly hosts are not conceived. Jesus was conceived. Clearly there is a difference between the sonship of the heavenly hosts and that of the ONLY Son of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2007,15:53) Hi not3,
I think we should let scripture decide who are sons.
As I said, “according to scripture….”Genesis 15
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 31 2007,15:54) Heavenly hosts are not conceived. Jesus was conceived. Clearly there is a difference between the sonship of the heavenly hosts and that of the ONLY Son of God.
Hi Not3,
The monogenes Son was sent into the world.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2007,16:20) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 31 2007,15:54) Heavenly hosts are not conceived. Jesus was conceived. Clearly there is a difference between the sonship of the heavenly hosts and that of the ONLY Son of God.
Hi Not3,
The monogenes Son was sent into the world.
OK, Nick, thanks.Quote (Not3in1 @ July 31 2007,15:30) Question to all, Where in scripture did God change the meaning of what conception meant, that we should have all these different ideas?
Where in scripture did God change the meaning of what a son means, so that a son is no longer an offspring of two parents?Angels are sons, yes, but they will not inherit anything…….they minster to those who will inherit!
Jesus was said to be of the ‘offspring’ of Abraham and David, he was never said to be the ‘offspring’ of God. Even if he was it wouldn’t necessarily mean literally for we are called ‘offspring’ of Abraham as being heirs of the promise through Christ. Galatians 3:29. As well we are called God’s offspring in Acts 17:29.Jesus was conceived to be a human being, and he was a human being. If you look up conceive in the Lexicons and the dictionary you will find that Jesus being conceived would mean a sperm and ovum coming together to form a zygote. The simplest definition is to become pregnant. Jesus was conceived as a human being under God’s direct will by the power of the Holy Spirit, not Jesus was conceived by God’s sperm.
The idea of God’s substance being likened to a human sperm, impregnating Mary, in order for Jesus to be God’s Son and Mary’s Son, but yet be fully human, does not add up to me.
Not3in1, do you or do you not believe that Jesus is fully human? If you do, I don’t see how you could think that God’s literal substance is in Jesus.
I can see how the fact that Jesus is called God’s only Son, would draw you to believe that he must be unique from all other people’s referred to as God’s children. If I have heard you right, you believe that Jesus is God’s only legitimate son, everyone else is just adopted.
Does not Luke 3:38 raise a problem with that belief though …son of Adam, son of God> this does not sound to me like Adam is being considered as an adopted son.
Ge 1:27 – And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.
2Co 4:4– in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God; (If Jesus were part of God’s literal substance then wouldn’t he be referred to as being part God and not being the image of God?)
We were made in the image of God and Jesus was the image of God.
Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever” –
Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy.
Proverbs 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life and obtains favor from the Lord;
Proverbs 11:30 – The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, but lawlessness takes away livesTo be made in the image of God is to know good and evil, however to BE the image of God is to accept the good over the evil and be righteous.
Jesus was called God’s only Son because he never was a child of wrath, he knew good and evil, but he did not ever take of evil. He only followed God’s Spirit of wisdom, and thus took of the Tree of Life.
Quote (Jodi @ Aug. 01 2007,06:56) Jesus was conceived to be a human being, and he was a human being. If you look up conceive in the Lexicons and the dictionary you will find that Jesus being conceived would mean a sperm and ovum coming together to form a zygote. The simplest definition is to become pregnant. Jesus was conceived as a human being under God’s direct will by the power of the Holy Spirit, not Jesus was conceived by God’s sperm.
Hi Jodi,Why not sperm? It seems that God can provide what is needed (source=provide what is needed), why couldn't he just as easily provide a sperm as provide anything else?
Here's my question: why conception at all? If God didn't want us to assume that Jesus was his biological Son….why not just send a Prophet? You see, the “simplest definition” is the correct one…………Mary became pregnant!
Hebrews 3:3-6, in part
Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor……but God is the builder of everything…..Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house…..But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house.
So, if Moses is a son of God, and Jesus is a son of God, what is so different about Jesus? Also, will Moses be adopted? Yes, Moses will be adopted. Will Jesus be adopted? No, Jesus does not need to be adopted because he already belongs by BLOOD!
Interesting note here about sperm….it carries the blood for the cells that divide and become the fetus. The ovum is supported by this source, it does not supply it. Now, that is interesting!
Quote (Jodi @ Aug. 01 2007,06:56) If I have heard you right, you believe that Jesus is God’s only legitimate son, everyone else is just adopted. Does not Luke 3:38 raise a problem with that belief though …son of Adam, son of God> this does not sound to me like Adam is being considered as an adopted son.
Did Jesus die for Adam?Quote (Jodi @ Aug. 01 2007,06:56) 2Co 4:4- in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God; (If Jesus were part of God’s literal substance then wouldn’t he be referred to as being part God and not being the image of God?) We were made in the image of God and Jesus was the image of God.
Hello again,Have you ever seen a son who is the spitting image of his Father? We have some friends who have triplets (oh my goodness
), and one of the boys looks exactly like his Dad – I mean EXACTLY. It's freaky how much he is the “image” of his Father. Now, I don't know what the Greek/Latin/Japanese translates on this “image” (ha), but to me, I have always seen this as being at least part of the answer. That Jesus was the image of his Father – they looked alike – they were alike in so many ways.Why then, after Adam had lived so many years, and had so many children, was it said of him:
Genesis 5:3
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.Could it be that Seth looked like him physically? Could it be that Seth was so much like him in some way or a lot of ways? We don't know, scripture doesn't tell us. But it is certainly a parallel to think about.
If Jesus is the biological Son of God (and I contend that he is), then it is only natural to assume that he will look and act like his Father to some degree. Could this be why he said the following:
John 14:9, in part
…anyone who has seen me has seen the Father…
Quote (Jodi @ Aug. 01 2007,06:56) Not3in1, do you or do you not believe that Jesus is fully human? If you do, I don’t see how you could think that God’s literal substance is in Jesus.
Is it required to believe that Jesus is “fully human”? Where is this written?John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him;…..because he has been born of God.5:18
…..the one who was born of God keeps him safe…1 John 5:6,7
This is the one who came by water and blood – Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.Romans 1:3,4
…regarding his Son who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.Thanks, Jodi. This is the most stimulating conversation I've had on this topic yet!
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