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Lisa said:
Quote Is Jesus co-equal with the Father? Nick replied:
Quote Hi Lisa,
No. He never was and he is not.He is the Son compared with the Father. Sons are derived from their fathers. They cannot exist except by the agency and will of their fathers. Fathers are before sons.
Lisa,
Nick's explanation is heretical. Jesus was the Son of God by decree, “I will declare the decree, “you are my Son, today I have begotten you.' ” This decree was fulfilled by Christ's acts of obedience.The Father did not derive Jesus as a human father derives a son. In the human sense one becomes a father by his own acts. In the covenant of redemption God became a father by the acts of Jesus (Hebrews 1).
I would advise you not to listen to Nick as he is given to a carnal approach to his interpretations of the scriptures.
thinker
hi tt
the reason God intervine at the time of the baptism of Jesus it was not to convise Jesus that he was God only begotten son ,it was for the others present at the seen,Jesus knew who he was.thinker you are a twister of words ,sentence ,ideas,
i believe you are playing a game on this site because i canot believe how you aproache some of the quotes.
i hope i misstaken in my view .Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 16 2009,17:59) hi tt
the reason God intervine at the time of the baptism of Jesus it was not to convise Jesus that he was God only begotten son ,it was for the others present at the seen,Jesus knew who he was.thinker you are a twister of words ,sentence ,ideas,
i believe you are playing a game on this site because i canot believe how you aproache some of the quotes.
i hope i misstaken in my view .
t,Jesus' sonship had reference to His office as the mediator off the covenant. He was not “derived' as Nick says. Nick's views about Christ are heretical. He even believes that Jesus was born evil like the rest of us.
Christ was indeed “a son” before His exaltation (Hebrews 5). But He was not fully installed as the Son, that is, the mediator of the covenant until He had completed the work God gave Him to do.
God is not His father in the human sense of the word as Nick suggests. God said about Christ's exaltation, “I will be a father to Him”. In the human sense men do not become fathers in this way. It's that simple.
thinker
Hi TT,
Where did I say that?
I guess you are still choking on Jb 25.
Do you not believe Jesus was not conceived of the Father's Spirit?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,20:05) Hi TT,
Where did I say that?
I guess you are still choking on Jb 25.
Do you not believe Jesus was not conceived of the Father's Spirit?
Nick,
It's in your first reply on this thread. You said that Jesus was “derived” as God's Son. But Hebrews and Acts says that He was begotten at His exaltation. Do human fathers “derive” their sons 30-40 years AFTER they are born?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 16 2009,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,20:05) Hi TT,
Where did I say that?
I guess you are still choking on Jb 25.
Do you not believe Jesus was not conceived of the Father's Spirit?
Nick,
It's in your first reply on this thread. You said that Jesus was “derived” as God's Son. But Hebrews and Acts says that He was begotten at His exaltation. Do human fathers “derive” their sons 30-40 years AFTER they are born?thinker
Humans can adopt anytime.Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 17 2009,03:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,20:05) Hi TT,
Where did I say that?
I guess you are still choking on Jb 25.
Do you not believe Jesus was not conceived of the Father's Spirit?
Nick,
It's in your first reply on this thread. You said that Jesus was “derived” as God's Son. But Hebrews and Acts says that He was begotten at His exaltation. Do human fathers “derive” their sons 30-40 years AFTER they are born?thinker
Hi TT,
Where did I say Jesus is a derived son?Thank you JA.
Seriously Nick, I thought I started a thought provoking topic, but it seems you keep leading us away from it.
Hi,
Jesus told us his Father God was greater than him
He was blessed by his greater God.[Heb7.7]No wonder the equal trinity idea has been replaced by another version.
Quote (Lisa @ Oct. 18 2005,00:18) Is Jesus co-equal with the Father?
No, the Father is greater.Naturally, a son of a father has some of the same characteristics of the father, but they are not co=. The father is older, usually wiser, etc. They have the same last name, because the father willed it to be so. But the father (and mother) cares, takes care of the son, until such time that the son learns more and more to take care of himself. Jesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man. Luke 2:52. Jesus Christ said, “I can of myself do nothing” John 5:30. Jesus Christ was empowered by God, see Acts 10:38. He was not the source of his own power. Acts 1:8 says we too are empowered by God our Father.
To All,
I am posting already posted information:
The Trinity Doctrine has now DROPPED the “Co- Equal” part of its Creed.
It now reads, 'They are CoExistent and CoEternal, of one substance, and the Father is greater than the Son, and the Son is greater than the Holy Spirit, and the Father and the Son are both greater than the Holy Spirit'
The only people claiming any co-equality were (as far as I know) Trinitarians.
So if, even they have dropped it….sneaked it out and replaced it with another word can could easily be missed since it begins 'coE…', then who is left arguing… those who have not yet realised the change.
Besides, what does 'coExistent' mean?
And 'CoEternal'?Of course Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are 'CoEternal'…Jesus has attained it as a Spirit with Body. He will live forever. God and the Holy Spirit were already Eternal from Eternity.
Don't get confused here. Eternity means, 'No beginning', but it also means, 'No Ending'.
So, saying Jesus is Eternal does not necessarily claim that he had no beginning, just that he has no end…
Come Close and Listen up, 'God is creating a new Heaven and a new earth, and all the elect in God and Christ will dwell in it ETERNALLY', that is, 'from the time that it becomes until no end in the future'
Jesus is also 'Eternal' from the time that he became Spirit after his resurrection, till no ending time in the future.And just to answer the unasked question. When he 'emptied' humself and was born in the flesh, he was devoid of the 'Spirit nature' that he had in heaven with God and the angels, so ended any claim from any that he was God, (God is not Man…if God becomes anything other than what He is, then He cannot be God, God cannot change else it means He is not perfect and God cannot be anything that is not perfect and flesh is not perfect as it is a minor …subset.. Of what Spirit is.)
And as for 'CoExistent'…ha! Pure poppycock wording…of course they 'Exist' and of course they are 'Co'. Yes, of course they are together in Heaven… CoExistent … What value of information is obtained here?
Man 'CoXsts' with the animals on earth, with the plants, the air, water, earth…does that imply 'one'…yes and no. Yes, we exist as planet earth entities, no, we are different, but dependent parts of planet earth.As the saying goes, 'desperate times call for desperate measures' and the grow un 'apparent intelligence' has brought about the questioning of the trinity doctrine such that they were forced to subtely adapt the creed to drop the most contraversial element and even admit a heirachial order..bring on commonsense… That was one step,Now how about another…
But don't be fooled. What does Scriptures say, 'There cannot be a coming together unless there is first a falling away….!'
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Nov. 16 2009,18:20) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 16 2009,17:59) hi tt
the reason God intervine at the time of the baptism of Jesus it was not to convise Jesus that he was God only begotten son ,it was for the others present at the seen,Jesus knew who he was.thinker you are a twister of words ,sentence ,ideas,
i believe you are playing a game on this site because i canot believe how you aproache some of the quotes.
i hope i misstaken in my view .
t,Jesus' sonship had reference to His office as the mediator off the covenant. He was not “derived' as Nick says. Nick's views about Christ are heretical. He even believes that Jesus was born evil like the rest of us.
Christ was indeed “a son” before His exaltation (Hebrews 5). But He was not fully installed as the Son, that is, the mediator of the covenant until He had completed the work God gave Him to do.
God is not His father in the human sense of the word as Nick suggests. God said about Christ's exaltation, “I will be a father to Him”. In the human sense men do not become fathers in this way. It's that simple.
thinker
KJ -TTyes God was a father to Christ in the same way as human fathers;a father give live by his seed; God give live to Jesus ,
ones at his birth and ones at is resurrection ,the all purpose of Christ birth was to be the anointed one for the sins of men.this was God s will,
as a son Christ learn what the will of his father was and then fulfill it from the day of is baptism until is dead,
the 3.5 years was not about Christ it was about God s will and how to conciliate with God .
by doing and complying with the will of God.
this means leaving the interest of this world and put your interest in Gods will.now in a symbolic way Christ as become a father for all the saved,because it is by is obedience to the will of God that we received our live,but at the end of it all the true father of us all is God
Pierre
Quote (Lisa @ Oct. 18 2005,00:18) Is Jesus co-equal with the Father?
There are many aspects of the word equal.Is one penny equal to another penny? Yes, they are the same denomination. They both hold the same value as far as a bank would be concerned. However, one might be older and rarer, therefore of more value to a collector of rare coins.
God loves.
Jesus loves.
You and I love.
We all love. We are equal in that respect.
Take two pairs of shoes. One set of women's in size 8. One pair size sixteen in men's. Both pairs are shoes. They are equally shoes, one pair is not more shoe than the other pair. However, there is a clear difference in other ways of measuring. Style, size, etc.
God says in Romans 12:9 to love without dissimulation, [hypocrisy] God will never ask you to do something that you are not able to do. There fore you are capable of loving without hypocrisy. You are equal to the task. God loves without hypocrisy, God says you can do it too. As we love without hypocrisy, we are loving even as God loves. Our love is equal to God's love. Of course, God is able to love the entire human population, past, present and future. You and I have trouble loving our neighbor as ourselves sometimes. However when we love we love as God would. In that sense, we are equal to God. But of course we are not God. Likewise with Jesus Christ.
We are “equal to the task” of doing God's will in our lives. Jesus Christ is equal to doing the will of God always and perfectly.
Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 05 2006,13:58) True, true Rev 22 is often used to support the idea that Jesus is co-equal, supposedly the Throne of God and the Lamb is proof of this.
I would venture to say that it is a joint throne but not co-equality.
The twenty four elders spoken of in the book of Revelation have their thrones as well. In the KJV, it is translated seats. It is the Greek word thronos, which elsewhere translated throne, including in the gospels. The twelve will judge the twelve tribes of Israel from their thrones.So, having a throne is heaven does not make one God.
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