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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,19:40) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,19:35) Is anything impossible for God? -Mark No. Is it impossible for God to have begotten a Son unto Himself who is NOT God, but the Son OF GOD?-Mikeboll
Your answer seems contradictory or confusing. Yes or no please. Is anything impossible for God?
My answer is “NO”. And knowing that nothing is impossible for God, I asked you if begetting a Son who was NOT God, but the Son OF God was impossible for God.
Mike and Marksorry but IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE,
Pierre
I asked you if begetting a Son who was NOT God, but the Son OF God was impossible for God. -Mike
This is a pointed question, from a human finite mind. Anything is possible for God. He can manifest himself any way he wants to. Be it a burning bush, three people talking to Abraham, or Jesus.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,12:43) But Mark, If the Apostles worshipped BOTH Jesus AND the One that Jesus himself worshipped, then wouldn't they be guilty of worshipping TWO Gods?
Not when you see one you see the other like Jesus himself said. They are one.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,12:49) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,19:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,12:35) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,19:05) “God is not, nor has He ever been flesh.'- Mikeboll Yes he has, and his name was Jesus, the word made flesh. The holy one of Israel.
Mark, God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.Why would your “flesh God” teach us that God is Spirit? Why would he count himself among those who worshipped our Spirit God? (John 4:22)
We have been here before.
My point here wasn't the “worship” thing anyway. My point was that God is SPIRIT, not FLESH. Does it make sense that a FLESH being who told us that God is SPIRIT would BE that God who is SPIRIT?Jesus didn't say “God is Spirit AND flesh”, right? And we know God is unchanging from scripture. If He is Spirit, like Jesus says, then He is ALWAYS Spirit.
That was because he was speaking, the part of God that was flesh.Mike, How is Jesus with us in spirit until the end and in heaven at the same time?
And if he was born by the power of the SPIRIT, and John saw the SPIRIT rest on him, and GOD IS A SPIRIT, wouldn't that with Jesus own testimony that when you see him you see the Father also testify he is God The Son?
One last thing, When Jesus claims to be the Alpha and the Omega. with the first and the last, and all things were created through him, how could he be created after God when he was the first with God. Wouldn't God have to be first and then create him if it is how you say? How is he first with God?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
How can that be if it is as you say? Wouldn't God have to make Jesus first? Then how can this scripture claim that NOTHING was made without Jesus? Unless they BOTH were together at the beginning! BANG!
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 06 2011,20:21) And if he was born by the power of the SPIRIT, and John saw the SPIRIT rest on him, and GOD IS A SPIRIT, wouldn't that with Jesus own testimony that when you see him you see the Father also testify he is God The Son?
MarkGod is spirit being,
but his will is also spirit just like ours,but the effect of that will can be seen ,and sins Jesus was doing 100 per cent of the will of God this would be right to say that when you see me you see the father …….
whatever Christ said and did was under his father autority ,this is the spirit of Christ that we have to aquire to be submited to God completly
then we also will be filled by Gods holy spirit (will)Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2011,13:40) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 06 2011,20:21) And if he was born by the power of the SPIRIT, and John saw the SPIRIT rest on him, and GOD IS A SPIRIT, wouldn't that with Jesus own testimony that when you see him you see the Father also testify he is God The Son?
MarkGod is spirit being,
but his will is also spirit just like ours,but the effect of that will can be seen ,and sins Jesus was doing 100 per cent of the will of God this would be right to say that when you see me you see the father …….
whatever Christ said and did was under his father autority ,this is the spirit of Christ that we have to aquire to be submited to God completly
then we also will be filled by Gods holy spirit (will)Pierre
But he didn't say “when you see me doing all the Fathers will you see him”, He said,”When you see me you see the Father”. Straightforward. When you are in his presance and look at him(see) you are Looking at the Father as well. Like you said God doesn't lie. They are one, by the power of God. Uncomprehendable, but possible for God, and testified to in scripture.Mark
Christ is not God ,if you say he is then Christ is a liar because he says that he is the son of his father,he is the first creation of God and God was not created he is the creator,
Christ alway says if you read scriptures carefuly ,i came to do my father s work,or will,the words I say are the words of the father not mine,at the end before he die ,he says all is done ,this was the will of his father that was done ,all what the father add made written in the old testament by the prophets ad to be acomplish by Christ to make God word come true and Christ as the true messiah.
it is alway about Gods will,God has the only truth,God s will comes alway through,we all have to accept to do Gods will if we want to recieve everlasting life,
in the new kingdom there only will be one will and that is Gods will ,this is the holy spirit ,read creation God say……God say…is this not the expression of his will ??
Christ is not God when he said when you see me this is not a fast one that Christ try to pull over the head of his disciples ,he was Jesus of nazareth they knew that ,so how could it be true what Christ say ??
exactly in the way that i explain it to you,
Christ is what plainly he says he his THE SON OF GODPierre
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 06 2011,14:34) One last thing, When Jesus claims to be the Alpha and the Omega. with the first and the last, and all things were created through him, how could he be created after God when he was the first with God. Wouldn't God have to be first and then create him if it is how you say? How is he first with God? 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
How can that be if it is as you say? Wouldn't God have to make Jesus first? Then how can this scripture claim that NOTHING was made without Jesus? Unless they BOTH were together at the beginning! BANG!
Some interesting points in your posts Mark.If I remember rightly, in the book of Enoch, the Holy Spirit was with God, and the Son of Man (Jesus) was seen seperate.
So, according to Enoch, if I remember it rightly, “The word was with God and the word was God” is the Holy Spirit.
Now if you put that with the Shephard of Hermas, it matches. I think. (I'll have to have a look).
But interesting thanks.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2011,14:40) Mark Christ is not God ,if you say he is then Christ is a liar because he says that he is the son of his father,he is the first creation of God and God was not created he is the creator,
Christ alway says if you read scriptures carefuly ,i came to do my father s work,or will,the words I say are the words of the father not mine,at the end before he die ,he says all is done ,this was the will of his father that was done ,all what the father add made written in the old testament by the prophets ad to be acomplish by Christ to make God word come true and Christ as the true messiah.
it is alway about Gods will,God has the only truth,God s will comes alway through,we all have to accept to do Gods will if we want to recieve everlasting life,
in the new kingdom there only will be one will and that is Gods will ,this is the holy spirit ,read creation God say……God say…is this not the expression of his will ??
Christ is not God when he said when you see me this is not a fast one that Christ try to pull over the head of his disciples ,he was Jesus of nazareth they knew that ,so how could it be true what Christ say ??
exactly in the way that i explain it to you,
Christ is what plainly he says he his THE SON OF GODPierre
Because they are one, one in the same spirit, one in the same being, one in the same infinate holiness, and the same power and authority and royalty. They are the only two Gods that deserve the title “The King” in scripture. Not King of Israel. King of Judah. Not King of anythin on earth, but “The King” universaly. They are differant only in this, Jesus was Creator God from the very beginning, the first moment of time, with Almighty God together, along with thier spirit, but humbled himself to become human for our sins to die on the cross. WHAT A INFINATE LOVING GOD! He loved us that much. He could have snapped his fingers and wiped us out and started over, but we are given a CHOICE. Believe that he is “Mighty God, Father Forever” and have forgiveness in his Name(Jesus).Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 06 2011,21:44) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 06 2011,14:34) One last thing, When Jesus claims to be the Alpha and the Omega. with the first and the last, and all things were created through him, how could he be created after God when he was the first with God. Wouldn't God have to be first and then create him if it is how you say? How is he first with God? 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
How can that be if it is as you say? Wouldn't God have to make Jesus first? Then how can this scripture claim that NOTHING was made without Jesus? Unless they BOTH were together at the beginning! BANG!
Some interesting points in your posts Mark.If I remember rightly, in the book of Enoch, the Holy Spirit was with God, and the Son of Man (Jesus) was seen seperate.
So, according to Enoch, if I remember it rightly, “The word was with God and the word was God” is the Holy Spirit.
Now if you put that with the Shephard of Hermas, it matches. I think. (I'll have to have a look).
But interesting thanks.
To me it makes perfect sense. The body, mind, and spirit idea makes some sense to me too. I have never thought of it that way. Thanks,so how could it be true what Christ say ??-Pierre
You yourself said, it is impossible for God to lie.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2011,13:40) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 06 2011,20:21) And if he was born by the power of the SPIRIT, and John saw the SPIRIT rest on him, and GOD IS A SPIRIT, wouldn't that with Jesus own testimony that when you see him you see the Father also testify he is God The Son?
MarkGod is spirit being,
but his will is also spirit just like ours,but the effect of that will can be seen ,and sins Jesus was doing 100 per cent of the will of God this would be right to say that when you see me you see the father …….
whatever Christ said and did was under his father autority ,this is the spirit of Christ that we have to aquire to be submited to God completly
then we also will be filled by Gods holy spirit (will)Pierre
Pierre,Quote God is spirit being, And Jesus only, is God both spirit and flesh(not like ours thou).
And through this mystery, Almighty God the Father also owns the flesh since it was through Him that His Son was glorified, and also in the same instant glorified Himself, to prove that they are one God.
Read 32 it says clear enough :If God be glorified in him,( Jesus) God shall also glorify him(Jesus) in himself, and shall straightway glorify him
So in 31 as soon as God glorify Jesus,
God also glorify Himself.
So they are both glorified in one instant action.
In 32 If God is glorified in Jesus,
God shall ALSO glorify Jesus in God.
So Jesus is glorified both as Jesus Son of God and also in the Father.to prove that they are one God. Two in One with the power of the Holy Spirit.
This is very important so when the last day comes and Jesus pass all things to His Father ,He will maintain His spirit in the Father,and also His spirit within all the entire creation both spiritual and material, because they also become one in themselves.
And here comes John 14:20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
So spiritually all creatures although they are within themselves,they are also in Jesus, and since Jesus is in the Father therefore all creatures will be in the Father.
But only when the spiritual creatures unite with the material creatures to become one ,two in one ,like how Jesus and the Father are two in one this very moment,as they were before creation started,but only as a spirit being in the Father.
14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 13:31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
3 Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Quote (vjesnik @ Oct. 06 2011,11:48) Quote vjesnik, Read these scriptures, and you yourself decide what Jesus is according to the Father.
Hebrews 1:7 And to the angels indeed he saith: He that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And: Thou in the beginning, O Lord, didst found the earth: and the works of thy hands are the heavens.
11 They shall perish, but thou shalt continue: and they shall all grow old as a garment.
12 And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: but thou art the selfsame, and thy years shall not fail.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Hi Charles
Sorry I can't comment on all texts (my English isn't so good, it would probably take me a week to do that
).
So I will comment just one
9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
By definition to be equal to God, the God that is equal could not have God, unless they are both gods of each other; and we can not find any example of that in the bible. In the case that they are gods one to each other by definition they could not be true gods any more because to be true God means that you are above everyone and everything. So this text is a perfect answer to the question who Jesus is relation to the Father. However I do understand why some people could think that’s the case and i will try to explain that when i get some time.
Also note that Jesus was anointed by Father.
Dear brothers and sisters, true doctrine have to fit in all Bible not just parts of it.Let me finish with the words of our Lord and saviour: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (John 17:3)
God bless
vjesnik
vjesnik,Now concentrate AND REFLECT IN DEPTH on this scripture:
NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS
10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2011,10:38) Charles Quote Pierre, I'm afraid you misunderstood me .
I repeat:
In your opinion how would you define a SON in terms of God ?
In human terms we understand what a SON is and also all the relations with his father, But when we are referring to the SON of God ,how would you define a SON of God in relation to His Father.
I hope I am clear now.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
what is a son to us human but an other independent being like us
so if God called his first creation son it is so that i understand it ;we can not create our children God did that for us,
but God create all things and his son is the first being that he says he created and that's all we have to know as men ,
if you have more intake please en-light me
Pierre
Pierre,define this now!!
NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS
10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Quote Dear brothers and sisters, true doctrine have to fit in all Bible not just parts of it.
vjesnik,
Welcome, I like what you said, I usually put it as “it needs to line up with the whole of scripture”My English is not so good either (and it is the only language I speak).
Hope you stick around
Wm
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2011,09:37) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,05:57)
Hey Mike,You said-
” Why is Jesus the only one you want to elevate to the status of the God who set him above his companions and anointed him with the oil of joy?”Because he is the only human man that was composed literally from God. His dad was literally God.
But can't you read your own words, Mark? HIS DAD is God, not him. He is, as you said yesterday, “OF God”, which means that, just like everything else in existence, he too came FROM his God – just like you've stated today.Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,05:57)
He was one with God not only in spirit, but in flesh also.
God is not, nor has He ever been flesh.Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,05:57)
He is literally part of the literal God, his very right arm.
In scripture, Cyrus is also called the right arm of God. He was also a messiah sent from God and prophesied about many years before he existed on earth. Perhaps Cyrus is also God Himself?
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,05:57)
He is the only human that can say that he is the “I AM”, and not be blasphemous.
First of all, it is very unlikely that YHWH even means “I AM”.Second, Jesus never said the words “I am I AM”. On a number of occasions, Jesus uttered “I am”, which happens to be the most common pronoun-verb combination in any language. But he never claimed to BE someone named “I AM”.
Third, if Jesus couldn't possibly blaspheme because he WAS God, then why did he deny blaspheming in John 10:34-36?
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 05 2011,05:57)
he took my sins and paid the price, even though he is God.
You mean “SON OF God”, right? There is a big difference, you know? The SON OF the President is not the President, right? The SON OF the King of Persia is not the King of Persia, right? Likewise, the SON OF God is not God.Mark, you didn't address my other post to you. Could you tell us how God Himself could be all of these following things?
Son OF God
Prophet OF God
Priest OF God
Servant OF God
Sacrificial Lamb OF God
Word/Spokesman OF God
Angel OF God
Anointed one OF God
Mike,Quote Could you tell us how God Himself could be all of these following things? Son OF God
Prophet OF God
Priest OF God
Servant OF God
Sacrificial Lamb OF God
Word/Spokesman OF God
Angel OF God
Anointed one OF GodHow can you convince yourself that god cannot be not just the above but also whatever entity He feels like to be without losing the least of His divinity, since scriptures says this:
Luke 10:22 NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 06 2011,12:18) I should also add: She says the flesh part of God was manifested in Jesus, Jesus as the flesh, while God as the Mind was in Heaven, I think she said??
shimmer,This is for you to reflect upon for quite a while.
Luke 10:22 NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE SON IS ,AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 06 2011,12:28) I do not understand it. I know that Jesus was one with the Father. More than one in spirit only. Otherwise he couldn't have said Show Us the Father! – John 14:8-11
Philip said to Jesus, “Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need.”
Jesus answered, “Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. The person that has seen me has seen the Father too.How could he say this if he wasn't the express human expression of God the Father? And How could he be anything but the same spirit because they are of the same? And How can he be with us until the end, and in Heaven at the same time? I do not understand it either, like I don't understand him being born to a virgin miraculously, but I do not have to Thank God. I just have to believe in him and his son,kinda the tag team of salvation who left me the consolation of thier spirit until Jesus returns and Rules as King.I can't wait……
Mikeangel,Keep in mind that Jesus in Human form owned the power of the Father through the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit of the Father always remained in heaven.Simply pronounces His words and :
Genesis 1:2 And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light
The Holy Spirit and the Spirit of the Son were both involved in the recreation of our world from Genesis 1:3 onwards.
John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
The above scriptures are a proof for this, and I let you meditate who was the one that sows,and who was the one that reaps .
Humbly speaking, I have my own perception,and hopefully there would be an occasion to share it with you all in order to recieve reciprocally light to discover the Beauty of our God Almighty.
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
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