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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 18 2010,06:46) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,05:58) TO SIMPLY FORGIVEN: I can't believe Mike man! Before I debate him again you have to get him honest. Note that he said that the first point of discussion I picked in the debate was “pasa ktisis.”
Quote Roo picked the first point of discussion, “pasa ktisis” which grew into including “monogenes”.
This is a bald faced lie! Please go to page 5 of the debate third post down. I picked the topic “When was Jesus begotten” which was #11 on Mike's list of topics. I said,Quote Hi Mike, Let's start with your point #11 which is “WHEN WAS JESUS BEGOTTEN?”
Mike lied also in saying that “monogenes” was to be his next choice if we ever finished with “pasa ktisis.” Laughable! First, I did not pick “pasa ktisis.” Second, “monogenes” was not Mike's next choice. His next choice was “Sitting at Right Hand Means Equality” (#1). On page 7 fourth post down Mike said:Quote I'm ready for you to show me that being at someone's right hand means equality with that person.
Then again in the last post on page 7:Quote Can we move on to the right hand of God now? 1. How do come to the understanding that it means “equality”?
Again second post down on page 8:Quote Now can you tell me how right hand means equality?
So we have three occurrences in less than two pages where Mike said that he wanted to discuss “The Right Hand Means Equality.”Then at the top of page 9 we start getting into monogenes. Mike brought it up at the beginning of his post. But by the end of that post he said this:
Quote So, if you have more on “begotten”, let me have it.
But if you want to keep going on “firstborn”, handle the “right hand” first, then we'll come back to it.
Okay, Mike says that if I have more on begotten (monogenes) to let him have it because he wanted to leave the “firstborn” subject and go straight to the Right Hand. So I gave him more on begotten in my next post and by the end of his first reply he said this,Quote We have spent many days and thousands of words on this point (most of them the same repeated words), it's time to move on. Show me how being at the right hand of God means equality with God.
There it is! He asked for more on “begotten” if I had it. Then after one post each he says that we have spent many days and thousands of words “this point” and it's time to move on to the right hand of God means equality.But now he says that the “first” topic will be the Greek meaning of “monogenes” and “prototokos pasa ktisis”. No deal! We are discussing these points right now in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine.
In our debate I said that I would not discuss the Right Hand issue because we had already been discussing it in Echad. So what makes Mike think that I would discuss monogenes and protokos when we are already going at it in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine?
Look, when I invited Mike choose the topic I expected that we would be exploring a point not yet discussed on Mike's list. But he wants to keep on the same subject after he himself said that “we had spent many days and thousands of words.”
NO! He said that he wanted to leave “firstborn” but to give him more on “begotten” if I had it. So I gave him more on begotten and immediately he wanted to get to the Right Hand issue. Then he engaged me on that issue in Echad and I asked him to save it for the debate. But he wouldn't wait and I warned him that if we discuss it in Echad we will not take it up in our debate. So the following points are out:
1. begotten
2. protokos
3. right hand
4. pasa ktisisWhen I invited Mike to pick the topic I expected that we were going to discuss a topic we have not yet discussed. So he needs to pick again.
And the topic he picks will not be the “first” topic. It will be the one and only topic we debate. After that first nightmare I have no desire to debate many topics with Mike. I enjoy myself much more by posting freely on the various topics throughout the board. Mike is too demanding for many topics.
So it is evident then that many things must still be ironed out before we proceed.
the Roo
KJ,Ok this is getting frustrating,
I jumped the gun.
why dont you just choose a topic that hasnt been discussed.Or let me pick it.
Should I ask for the moderatoers to delete the thread that i posted up, because ya are not going to dicuss it?
Someone needs to make a decision already.
grrr
SF,Yes you did jump the gun! I was frustrated when I saw you had started a thread on monogenes and protokos. Then I discovered that Mike had chosen these. We have beat these into the ground already. To discuss these I would need only to copy and paste all I have said already. It's nonsense! What is Mike thinking?
Any ONE topic on Mike's list on page 5 of the debate is agreeable to me except:
1. begotten
2. protokos
3. right hand
4. pasa ktisisWe beat the 4 topics above into the ground already.
If Mike will not choose ONE from the other 19 then you may choose. Anyway, I will not choose because I have had enough of Mike's childish ape like beating of his chest. He will surely say that I picked one for my advantage and then say “I am running.” He will probably say this because I will not repeat monogenes and protokos.
If Mike beats his chest because I won't go with monogenes and protokos then the debate is off!
As you can see there is a lot of distrust between the two of us. So things must be ironed out beforehand.
KJ
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,09:02) Hi SF,
I suggest you just go ahead and pick a topic and get this thing kicked off.
Any topic on Mike's existing list except the four I indicated. We have beat those in to the ground already and it will be nothing but repetition and a waste of time again. Or any topic Mike wants to discuss about Christ's divinity that is not on his list.Jack
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,11:51) I didn't realise there was a list, where is it?
Paul,The list is on page 5 of our debate 2nd post down. The four I have disqualified have already beaten to death and two of them are presently being discussed in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine (protokos and begotten).
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2010,13:39) Why can't we go question by question? I ask one. He answers and asks one of his own? mike
Hi Mike,That's exactly what I told WJ Here –>(Third Post). but he ran from me.
“Bible Truth” is hard to refute, so the 'only option' is run. (James 4:7)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 18 2010,12:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2010,13:39) Why can't we go question by question? I ask one. He answers and asks one of his own? mike
Hi Mike,That's exactly what I told WJ Here –>(Third Post). but he ran from me.
“Bible Truth” is hard to refute, so the 'only option' is run. (James 4:7)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Another chest beating ape.KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,12:49) Quote (Ed J @ June 18 2010,12:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2010,13:39) Why can't we go question by question? I ask one. He answers and asks one of his own? mike
Hi Mike,That's exactly what I told WJ Here –>(Third Post). but he ran from me.
“Bible Truth” is hard to refute, so the 'only option' is run. (James 4:7)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Another chest beating ape.KJ
Hi Kang,You run as well. Fifth Post last Paragraph!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,12:25) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,11:51) I didn't realise there was a list, where is it?
Paul,The list is on page 5 of our debate 2nd post down. The four I have disqualified have already beaten to death and two of them are presently being discussed in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine (protokos and begotten).
Jack
That's a good list. I wish Mike would just hurry up and pick a topic and there would be some agreement around a format.Mike, ball's in your court.
Is wrote:[/quote]
Thank you Paul, it IS a good list. I made it.
Jack, if I said you picked pasa ktisis and it grew to include monogenes, but it was really the other way around, I'm dreadfully sorry for my mistake. Did my mistake defame your name in any way? You yell that I'm a bald faced liar because I got the ONLY two things we really ever discussed mixed up in my head? Wow, man.
And you have a couple of things mixed up as well. We have NEVER discussed right hand. I have tried and tried, but you would not let the pasa ktisis and monogenes go. Well too, bad for you now. I've got new proof on those.
If anyone were to read the last few pages of our debate, they would see me almost begging to move on to right hand, and you refusing to quit on monogenes and pasa kitisis. And we never even hit on prototokos. So now that you know I have killer proof on the two we discussed, you want to not only avoid them, but jump right over what was to be my next choice before you quit.
Just forget it guys. I don't feel like debating within a format anyway. All I want is a point by point with a moderator who can try to keep Jack from avoiding and running away. You can all clearly see he is already running away from monogenes, prototkos pasa ktisis and right hand before we even start.
Like I've said before Jack, put up or shut up. If you are so sure those words mean what you think, you should have no problem proving that.
Sorry Dennison. Get him to agree to you “moderating” our current debate, and I will EAGERLY continue. I've been bumping both Jack's and WJ's debates occasionally, but to no avail.
I am getting increasingly frustrated at HN. It seems no one wants to answer when you make a good point that refutes their beliefs. They don't even deal with your point, just do end runs around it.
peace and love,
mikeCorrection: we did discuss firstborn, but the focus was more on the “of every creature”. My mistake.
mike
Quote Just forget it guys. I don't feel like debating within a format anyway.
Backing out Mike? That's very hypocritical after you accused Jack from running away from you all over the forum.I second that. What about it.
To make it easy, just one thing per topic and let people weigh in when one person decides to dodge a legit point.Quote (Lightenup @ June 18 2010,16:17) I'd like to see a debate between Mike and Paul…that would be interesting!
Mike debates with Paul (the NT writer) all the time…..Hi Is- Paul,
Finally!..
I have had enough debating about debating!!! I cant believe this…
im actually disapointed.I smell fear in the air, my nostrils are senstive to these scents.
Ok how are we going to do this?
Whats the topic???Im think about making a format that is in Question and Answer style, that would be easier for everyone to use.
what do you think???Hi all,
Im aware that this format seems complicated,
Even though the whole point was to make people stop dodging questions and actualyl reach a conclusion.Should i make it more simple? more open?
Hi SF,
I've got some thoughts but I'll wait to see if Mike accepts before I lay it out if that's okay. Mike might not like my conditions but I have to do this on my terms due to some other commitments I have.Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,19:54) Hi SF,
I've got some thoughts but I'll wait to see if Mike accepts before I lay it out if that's okay. Mike might not like my conditions but I have to do this on my terms due to some other commitments I have.
Very well,but i dont think Mike is fond of the format i provided, even though its the answer to finaly solve debates.
I might create a Q&A format with limitations. I dont know, it seems that members want something a bit quicker and simple for everyone to use, but finallly gets us to a result.
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