Born of water.

[terraricca]

waup

Quote

The scriptures you quoted is about the sealed. Wrong scriptures.Can not use that to back up this topic. The topic is: BORN AGAIN.

all believers have to be born again no difference ,God make the pick out of all those who are called ,so it is not up to us to decide were we will be going ,we are the fruits of the disciples of Christ ,and the apostles have received a new covenant we are their fruit, John 17 ;20

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2012,09:39)

Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 19 2012,23:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 20 2012,15:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2012,08:21) Being born again refers to when some of us will be changed.  There is no flesh being living today who is already “born again” in the way Jesus meant in John 3. I have never understood what is meant by people saying they are “Born Again Christians”.  I believe they are understanding John 3 incorrectly. Mike being born again means that we have come to make the profound change in our live ;so that what we think ,do, love. becomes all one part in our soul ,wen that his achieved ,WE ARE NOW BORN AGAIN ,not of the will of men but of the will of God could you understand this Pierre, During the first first resurrection, will they be raised into flesh or spirit? According to 1 Cor 15, they will be raised into spirit.

This is true, they will be spirit.

We are all born ones already; the next would be the resurrection. born of the spirit. 2x.

According the majority we will be born 3x.
1.born of the flesh; 2.born again at babtism; 3.born when resurrected.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,05:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2012,09:39) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 19 2012,23:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 20 2012,15:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2012,08:21) Being born again refers to when some of us will be changed.  There is no flesh being living today who is already “born again” in the way Jesus meant in John 3. I have never understood what is meant by people saying they are “Born Again Christians”.  I believe they are understanding John 3 incorrectly. Mike being born again means that we have come to make the profound change in our live ;so that what we think ,do, love. becomes all one part in our soul ,wen that his achieved ,WE ARE NOW BORN AGAIN ,not of the will of men but of the will of God could you understand this Pierre, During the first first resurrection, will they be raised into flesh or spirit? According to 1 Cor 15, they will be raised into spirit. This is true, they will be spirit. We are all born ones already; the next would be the resurrection. born of the spirit. 2x. According the majority we will be born 3x. 1.born of the flesh; 2.born again at babtism; 3.born when resurrected. wakeup.

being born again means that we have come to make the profound change in our life ;so that what we think ,do, love. becomes all one part in our soul ,wen that his achieved ,WE ARE NOW BORN AGAIN ,not of the will of men but of the will of God

could you understand this

[Wakeup]

Terra.

I understand what you believe.
you will be bor 3x.

So the word AGAIN has no meaning to you.

Born again means that you are born twice,NOT 3x.
Can you understand?
That you can not add another extra birth,just to please your doctrine?

NOW; WHO IS GOING OUTSIDE THE SCRIPTURES HERE?
IS IT NOT YOU?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

j42

Quote

Pierre, It tells me that you did not answer my question. The 144K are the firstfruits. The rest follow them. Nevertheless, whoever will take part in the first resurrection, will they be raised into spirit or into flesh? Just a simple question Pierre.

In scriptures God and the gospel of Christ contains one promise and that is ;Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

it does not say ETERNAL LIFE IN HEAVEN ,or is their a scriptures that says that show me please

but it says that only 144k will be redeemed from the earth Rev 14.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,05:39)

Terra. I understand what you believe. you will be bor 3x. So the word AGAIN has no meaning to you. Born again means that you are born twice,NOT 3x. Can you understand? That you can not add another extra birth,just to please your doctrine? NOW; WHO IS GOING OUTSIDE THE SCRIPTURES HERE? IS IT NOT YOU? wakeup.

show me the scriptures that I broke please

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2012,10:50)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,05:39) Terra. I understand what you believe. you will be bor 3x. So the word AGAIN has no meaning to you. Born again means that you are born twice,NOT 3x. Can you understand? That you can not add another extra birth,just to please your doctrine? NOW; WHO IS GOING OUTSIDE THE SCRIPTURES HERE? IS IT NOT YOU? wakeup. show me the scriptures that I broke please

Terra.

The scripture says born again:2x.
You said no: its born again and again.3x.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,06:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2012,10:50) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,05:39) Terra. I understand what you believe. you will be bor 3x. So the word AGAIN has no meaning to you. Born again means that you are born twice,NOT 3x. Can you understand? That you can not add another extra birth,just to please your doctrine? NOW; WHO IS GOING OUTSIDE THE SCRIPTURES HERE? IS IT NOT YOU? wakeup. show me the scriptures that I broke please Terra. The scripture says born again:2x. You said no: its born again and again.3x. wakeup.

were his your scriptures

and were do I say that we are born 3 time

that is your interpretation not mine

[mikeboll64]

Okay Pierre,

You don't have to agree with me, but hear me out, my friend:

Wakeup, journey, and I all know how you understand the words of John 3.  You take Jesus' words METAPHORICALLY, as in:  You must be born again of spirit, which means you must cast aside your ties to the sinful flesh in which you dwell, and live your lives according to spirit and God's will.  By choosing to live your CURRENT, EARTHLY lives according to spirit instead of according to the sinful flesh, you will have been metaphorically “born again”.

This is how most of Christianity understands these words.

I, however, do not take his words metaphorically, but LITERALLY.  Jesus says that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born again, of spirit.  In 1 Cor 15, Paul echoes this sentiment when he says, And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.  I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul is NOT talking metaphorically, but literally.  And I believe he is confirming the LITERAL teaching of Jesus, with almost the exact same words.

To sum up, we are aware of how you and most of Christianity understand the words of John 3.  We UNDERSTAND where you're coming from.  We just don't agree that Jesus was talking about people who are still living on earth being “born again”.  Instead, we believe he was LITERALLY speaking about the time of the first resurrection, when the chosen ones will be LITERALLY “born again” of spirit.

Jesus was the firstborn from the dead, right?  That means certain others will follow him.  And that means those certain others will be BORN AGAIN – a second time – of spirit instead of flesh. At this time, they will literally be able to enter the Kingdom of God.

peace,
mike

[Wakeup]

Terra.

1x.born out of mothers belly.
second time; born again when babtised.
third time; when resurrected.

1x+1x+1x=3x. 3times born.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2012,13:21)

Being born again refers to when some of us will be changed.  There is no flesh being living today who is already “born again” in the way Jesus meant in John 3. I have never understood what is meant by people saying they are “Born Again Christians”.  I believe they are understanding John 3 incorrectly.

Hi Mike:

Following is what is meant by being born again:

We as sinners were all dead or spiritually separated from God through our transgressions of God's Law.  We did not have a personal relationship with God.

The scripture states that Jesus was the “first born again from the dead”.  He took the sins of humanity on himself and died spiritually separated from God, but He was judged not guilty and God raised him from the dead by His Spirit.

When a Christian believes the gospel, and it conceives in his heart, he is born of living water or born of the Word of God, when he repents his sins are washed away by the blood of Jesus, and he is raised from the state of spiritual separation from God by the same Holy Ghost that raised Jesus from the dead or spiritual separation from God into a personal relationship with Him.

Here are some scriptures for your review:

Quote

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Quote

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.   1Pe 1:22 ¶ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:   1Pe 1:23   Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Quote

Rom 8:9   But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.   Rom 8:10   And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.   Rom 8:11   But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Quote

Rom 6:3   Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?   Rom 6:4   Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.   Rom 6:5   For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:   Rom 6:6   Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.   Rom 6:7   For he that is dead is freed from sin.   Rom 6:8   Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:   Rom 6:9   Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.   Rom 6:10   For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.   Rom 6:11   Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2012,06:50)

Okay Pierre, You don't have to agree with me, but hear me out, my friend: Wakeup, journey, and I all know how you understand the words of John 3.  You take Jesus' words METAPHORICALLY, as in:  You must be born again of spirit, which means you must cast aside your ties to the sinful flesh in which you dwell, and live your lives according to spirit and God's will.  By choosing to live your CURRENT, EARTHLY lives according to spirit instead of according to the sinful flesh, you will have been metaphorically “born again”. This is how most of Christianity understands these words. I, however, do not take his words metaphorically, but LITERALLY.  Jesus says that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born again, of spirit.  In 1 Cor 15, Paul echoes this sentiment when he says, And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.  I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Paul is NOT talking metaphorically, but literally.  And I believe he is confirming the LITERAL teaching of Jesus, with almost the exact same words. To sum up, we are aware of how you and most of Christianity understand the words of John 3.  We UNDERSTAND where you're coming from.  We just don't agree that Jesus was talking about people who are still living on earth being “born again”.  Instead, we believe he was LITERALLY speaking about the time of the first resurrection, when the chosen ones will be LITERALLY “born again” of spirit. Jesus was the firstborn from the dead, right?  That means certain others will follow him.  And that means those certain others will be BORN AGAIN – a second time – of spirit instead of flesh.  At this time, they will literally be able to enter the Kingdom of God. peace, mike

Mike

I understand what you are saying but first you tell me now how I have to understand Rev 14;

Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
chap;14;3
No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

please answer that question then I have more and see if all you say fits

[942767]

Hi:  

Here are some more scriptures:

Quote

Jhn 4:9   Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.   Jhn 4:10   Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Quote

jOHN 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Love in Christ, Marty 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 21 2012,07:38)

Hi:   Here are some more scriptures: Quote Jhn 4:9   Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.   Jhn 4:10   Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. Quote jOHN 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Love in Christ, Marty 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

hi Marty

your scriptures seems displaced to answer my quote ,but in reference to John4;10 ; If thou knewest the gift of God,;

can you tell me WHAT WAS THE GIFT OF GOD THAT JESUS REFERT TO???

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2012,11:50)

Okay Pierre, You don't have to agree with me, but hear me out, my friend: Wakeup, journey, and I all know how you understand the words of John 3.  You take Jesus' words METAPHORICALLY, as in:  You must be born again of spirit, which means you must cast aside your ties to the sinful flesh in which you dwell, and live your lives according to spirit and God's will.  By choosing to live your CURRENT, EARTHLY lives according to spirit instead of according to the sinful flesh, you will have been metaphorically “born again”. This is how most of Christianity understands these words. I, however, do not take his words metaphorically, but LITERALLY.  Jesus says that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born again, of spirit.  In 1 Cor 15, Paul echoes this sentiment when he says, And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.  I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Paul is NOT talking metaphorically, but literally.  And I believe he is confirming the LITERAL teaching of Jesus, with almost the exact same words. To sum up, we are aware of how you and most of Christianity understand the words of John 3.  We UNDERSTAND where you're coming from.  We just don't agree that Jesus was talking about people who are still living on earth being “born again”.  Instead, we believe he was LITERALLY speaking about the time of the first resurrection, when the chosen ones will be LITERALLY “born again” of spirit. Jesus was the firstborn from the dead, right?  That means certain others will follow him.  And that means those certain others will be BORN AGAIN – a second time – of spirit instead of flesh.  At this time, they will literally be able to enter the Kingdom of God. peace, mike

Mike

This is well explained,
amen brother.

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2012,12:45)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 21 2012,07:38) Hi:   Here are some more scriptures: Quote Jhn 4:9   Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.   Jhn 4:10   Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. Quote jOHN 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Love in Christ, Marty 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) hi Marty your scriptures seems displaced to answer my quote ,but in reference to John4;10 ; If thou knewest the gift of God,; can you tell me WHAT WAS THE GIFT OF GOD THAT JESUS REFERT TO???

Hi Pierre:

The gift of God was:

Quote

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Mike

Quote

I, however, do not take his words metaphorically, but LITERALLY. Jesus says that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born again, of spirit. In 1 Cor 15, Paul echoes this sentiment when he says, And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

so if I understand you correctly ;it is the fact that Christ was the first born of the dead that you concluded that this is how we all are reborn or born again right

Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

I understand here from John that to become children of God his the promise that is given for those that follow the spirit of God through Christ is it not

1Co 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
1Co 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul explain to my understanding that if you fail by not holding firmly to it ,all your believe is for nothing ,IN ONE WAY THEN YOU WOULD ACCORDING TO YOUR VIEW NEVER BE BORN AGAIN ,AND SO THIS I ALSO BELIEVE ,but if it is the gospel that save us then if we are holding firm to the end then WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHANGED BY OUR RESURRECTION IS NOT all of us good and bad will be resurrected would the bad also be reborn why then an judgment the resurrection is only an process by witch God make and give the fulfillment of the promise, THE GIFT OF EVERLASTING LIFE”

1Co 15:46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
1Co 15:49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
1Co 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Paul argument was that he explain that for those who have an heavenly call ,this would be the process ,by recognizing here that Christ was from heaven and so preexisted his manhood on earth ,so he pointing out that to receive the promise we have to live a life in the spirit according to God and die other wise how can we be resurrected ,this is the faith of the gospel we change our life and live according to the spirit of God and wen we are resurrected then we receive the promise .if the promise is to live everlasting in heaven this is better than everlasting life on earth under the new earth and heaven,but the promise HIS EVERLASTING LIFE

LITERALLY;

If you take it literally ,then why changing and live our live in the spirit according to God look at all the scriptures they all teach :that we should reach for the holiness of God and Christ showed us that it can be done ,so what his missing wen you come to the end of your earthly live we die and wait for the resurrection, but again the resurrection is for all good and bad ,but the judgment is based on your spiritual value of our soul ,and so it is not the resurrection that make us a reborn believer it is the new spirit life that we have planted in our soul according to Gods will ,not ours ,this is not the easy road ,constantly fighting with your own self ,2TI 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

what you think ,their still more ,but I would like to ear from you on my comments ,:)

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 21 2012,08:55)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2012,12:45) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 21 2012,07:38) Hi:   Here are some more scriptures: Quote Jhn 4:9   Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.   Jhn 4:10   Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. Quote jOHN 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Love in Christ, Marty 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) hi Marty your scriptures seems displaced to answer my quote ,but in reference to John4;10 ; If thou knewest the gift of God,; can you tell me WHAT WAS THE GIFT OF GOD THAT JESUS REFERT TO??? Hi Pierre: The gift of God was: Quote 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

yes agreed ,but the gift is free but what is men to do to get it ???or obtain it

[Wakeup]

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad.
But of the good only.

2.The first resurrection is for the saints,resurrected in spirit.(they are judged and resurrected at the same time).
God already knows who belongs to him before he is resurrected.(therefore already judged).

3. In the second resurrection: the good, (sheep) will be resurrected in spirit, and the BAD will be brought back in the ,FLESH,for the goats will be judged, and then cast in the fire.
(once one is resurrected in the spirit he will not be killed).

4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY.

5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also.

wakeup.

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 21 2012,19:40)

1. There is NO resurrection of the bad. But of the good only. 2.The first resurrection is for the saints,resurrected in spirit.(they are judged and resurrected at the same time). God already knows who belongs to him before he is resurrected.(therefore already judged). 3. In the second resurrection:  the good, (sheep) will be resurrected in spirit, and the BAD will be brought back in the ,FLESH,for the goats will be judged, and then cast in the fire. (once one is resurrected in the spirit he will not be killed). 4. IF ONE IS RESURRECTED IN THE SPIRIT,ONE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY JUDGED ALREADY. 5. The sheep will be resurrected in spirit,and inherit the kingdom also. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I do not share this understanding. Show me this by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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