Born of water.

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 04 2013,09:05)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 04 2013,10:47)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 04 2013,03:32)

Hi Wakeup.

Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus was in regards to being born again through baptism, repentance, and spirit.

2bee and wup

show me the scriptures of that statement ;

JN 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
JN 3:2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “ Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
JN 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Mk 9:1 And he said to them, “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.”
Lk 9:27 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

it is all about TO SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD not born again ,you guys are anchored on the wrong pier

Hi T,

You quoted the verses:
JN 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Mk 9:1 And he said to them, “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.”
Lk 9:27 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

Who was Jesus speaking to? Would it not be the resurrected saints approximately 70AD (the first fruits).

I believe that we can “see” God in Spirit, this is not our eyes though, it is our spirit.

The Kingdom of God is still to come. Being born again is being as if we are born again. We have to grow and learn.

2Besee.

QUOTE:
Who was Jesus speaking to? Would it not be the resurrected saints approximately 70AD (the first fruits).
—————————————————————–

Wrong.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Peter; James; and John saw the kingdom of God before they died.

wakeup.

January 4, 2013 at 9:11 am#326797

2besee

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 04 2013,14:29)

2bee

first we have to be true and serve God in spirit and truth ;if this is done with all your mind and soul and strength then you will feel and see with understanding what the kingdom of God really his ,because the kingdom of God encompass all of his creation ,not just the earth,

trust in Gods scriptures they are the truth deep inside ,let the knowledge of truth enter your heart ,let God be your guide in all things ,all day long ,

love in Christ

T, bless you, thank-you

January 4, 2013 at 9:18 am#326799

2besee

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 04 2013,17:06)

Wrong.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Peter; James; and John saw the kingdom of God before they died.

wakeup.

Wakeup, the kingdom of God?

January 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm#326812

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 04 2013,19:18)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 04 2013,17:06)

Wrong.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Peter; James; and John saw the kingdom of God before they died.

wakeup.

Wakeup, the kingdom of God?

2Besee.

Yes, those three saw a glimps of the kingdom of God.
They saw Elijah and Moses in the kingdom.

And that kingdom will come to earth in israel.
We also will see Elijah and Moses, and and others, with us in the kingdom coming,in israel.Abraham will be there also,and Jacob.

wakeup.

January 7, 2013 at 2:23 am#326932

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2013,12:04)

I disagree, Ed. I believe the Kingdom of God is a REAL place that some of us will physically go – not just something in our minds.

And we can't GO there unless we are rid of flesh, and made of spirit.

I see no need to keep arguing about this topic, so I'll leave it to the rest of you. As with many scriptural topics, there are different ways to understand certain words.

It is clear that you and Pierre and 2B are taking Jesus' words in John 3 to be METAPHORICAL. I do not take them that way.

Who's right, and who's wrong? We can beat each other up over it for months without ever getting closer to the actual truth of it.

For right now, I will agree to disagree with you, Pierre, and 2B. No harm done.

Hi Mike:

The question to you is: Have you received Holy Spirit since you have believed the gospel?

It is true that the scripture states that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” meaning that we will receive a spiritual body which equip us for eternal life when the Lord comes for the church, but being born again is a term referring spiritual rebirth as described in the following scriptures:

Quote

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 8:12 ¶ Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God

And so if you disagree, what do these scriptures mean to you?

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 7, 2013 at 2:35 am#326934

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 01 2013,04:51)

Quote (94276E7 @ Dec. 31 2012,13:25)

water baptism is an action showing that one has believed the Word of God,
and has repented, and it symbolizes ones union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.

Hi Marty,

How people miss the obvious.
The Jews needed to accept Jesus
ransom sacrifice, so baptism was proof.
We believe apart from the law, so no need. (see Acts 10:44-46)

Peter asked: “Can any man forbid water” (Acts 10:47),
no-one forbids water baptism, though it is not necessary.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed:

I am not sure that I understand what you mean “it(water baptism is not necessary”)?

If someone has believed the gospel and has received the Holy Spirit and dies a physical death prior to being baptized in water, are they saved? Yes, of course, or if they believe the gospel and receive the Holy Spirit on their death bed, and are not baptized in water prior to their physical death, are they saved. Yes, they are.

But anyone who believes the gospel with a repentant heart should be baptized in water if they are able. It is the Word of God and so, yes it is necessary. Salvation is by faith, but our works demonstrate that we have believed with a repentant heart. “Faith without works is dead”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 7, 2013 at 2:46 am#326935

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 31 2012,14:58)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2012,14:32)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 31 2012,14:07)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2012,13:25)

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 31 2012,12:35)

If I may be curious, how many here have been baptized in water?

Hi:

I have been baptized in water and have also received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

However, my understanding is that when Jesus states being born of water, he is referring to “being born of living water” which is the Word of God that has come to humanity through him. Water baptism is indeed part of that living water, but water baptism is an action showing that one has believed the Word of God, and has repented, and it symbolizes ones union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.

We are saved by “faith”, having believed the gospel message.

Quote

Jhn 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

Jhn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Jhn 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Jesus never said living waters,and he never mentioned babtism. But he said born. The whole conversation was about being born; not about babtism.

wakeup.

Hi wakeup:

Jesus was speaking of a spiritual rebirth. Was he not?

Quote

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Matthew 28 states:

Quote

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen

I believe that these scriptures have been altered to state in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and should read “baptizing them in my name”, but the point here is that baptism is part of the Word of God, and it is through obedience the Word that we have life.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

1.The renewing of the mind. receiving the Holy spirit.
2. Born again,in a new body. in the resurrection.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

This is what the scriptures state relative to renewing of your mind:

Quote

Rom 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Rom 12:3 ¶ For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

I have shown what it means to be born again in a post to Mike (Romans 8). No need to keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 7, 2013 at 2:54 am#326936

Participant

Hi Marty,

The bible says we are saved by faith apart from works (deeds of the law).
If water baptism is 'works' (and I believe it is) then it is unnecessary.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 7, 2013 at 3:09 am#326938

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,12:54)

Hi Marty,

The bible says we are saved by faith apart from works (deeds of the law).
If water baptism is 'works' (and I believe it is) then it is unnecessary.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed:

By the deeds of the law can no man be saved, because it is impossible to obey the law without making mistakes, and without the blood that was shed for us on calvary no man will be saved, but this does not mean that we are not to obey the Word of God, does it?

This is what James says, and it is consistent with what Paul states about being saved by faith. Believing God's Word is not just a mental assent, but believing with a repentant heart.

Quote

Jam 2:14 ¶ What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 7, 2013 at 3:30 am#326939

Participant

Hi Marty,

“Water Baptism” is what connects Judaism to Christianity.
“Spiritual Baptism” (with God's Holy Spirit) IS Christianity.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 7, 2013 at 4:12 am#326940

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,13:30)

Hi Marty,

“Water Baptism” is what connects Judaism to Christianity.
“Spiritual Baptism” (with God's Holy Spirit) IS Christianity.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed:

Jesus commanded the Apostles to baptize disciples from all nations, this says in the name of the Father, and the Son and fo the Holy Ghost, and I believe that it should read in my name, but the point is that Jesus commanded the Apostles to baptize converts.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

So, if your arguement is that he was talking about baptizing them in the Holy Spirit, it is only he that can baptize anyone with the Holy Spirit.

There are many examples of new converts being baptized in water in the Acts of the Apostles.

Is the following scripture only meant for the Jews?

Quote

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 7, 2013 at 7:09 am#326953

Participant

Hi Marty,

The water baptized converts were from Judaism.
The Gentiles were not required to be “water baptized”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 7, 2013 at 7:13 am#326954

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:09)

Hi Marty,

The water baptized converts were from Judaism.
The Gentiles were not required to be “water baptized”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

'I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;' (1 Cor 1:14)

January 7, 2013 at 7:15 am#326955

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:13)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:09)

Hi Marty,

The water baptized converts were from Judaism.
The Gentiles were not required to be “water baptized”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

'I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;' (1 Cor 1:14)

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing,
save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

January 7, 2013 at 1:24 pm#326979

Devolution

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:15)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:13)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:09)

Hi Marty,

The water baptized converts were from Judaism.
The Gentiles were not required to be “water baptized”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

'I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;' (1 Cor 1:14)

Ed,

This may come as a shock to you, but I agree with you.

Water Baptism is NOT necessary.
Though there is nothing wrong with it, i think its a beautiful GESTURE, but all in all, not necessary.

God is more concerned with HOW we live our lives, not with traditions…not with SYMBOLIC PLEDGES (water baptism) but with walking the walk.

Cheers.

January 7, 2013 at 4:11 pm#326993

Participant

Quote (Devolution @ Jan. 07 2013,23:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:15)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:13)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 07 2013,17:09)

Hi Marty,

The water baptized converts were from Judaism.
The Gentiles were not required to be “water baptized”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

'I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;' (1 Cor 1:14)

Ed,

This may come as a shock to you, but I agree with you.

Water Baptism is NOT necessary.
Though there is nothing wrong with it, i think its a beautiful GESTURE, but all in all, not necessary.

God is more concerned with HOW we live our lives, not with traditions…not with SYMBOLIC PLEDGES (water baptism) but with walking the walk.

Cheers.

Cheers

January 8, 2013 at 12:14 am#327011

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 07 2013,12:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 31 2012,14:58)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2012,14:32)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 31 2012,14:07)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2012,13:25)

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 31 2012,12:35)

If I may be curious, how many here have been baptized in water?

Hi:

I have been baptized in water and have also received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We are saved by “faith”, having believed the gospel message.

Quote

Jhn 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

Jhn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Jhn 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Jesus never said living waters,and he never mentioned babtism. But he said born. The whole conversation was about being born; not about babtism.

wakeup.

Hi wakeup:

Jesus was speaking of a spiritual rebirth. Was he not?

Quote

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Matthew 28 states:

Quote

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

1.The renewing of the mind. receiving the Holy spirit.
2. Born again,in a new body. in the resurrection.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

This is what the scriptures state relative to renewing of your mind:

Quote

Rom 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I have shown what it means to be born again in a post to Mike (Romans 8). No need to keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Sometinmes it is necessary to repeat,just as the gospels.

For many are reading,and not all have the same capacity of understanding. Repeating wont do any harm.

wakeup.

January 8, 2013 at 1:28 am#327015

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 06 2013,19:23)

Hi Mike:

The question to you is: Have you received Holy Spirit since you have believed the gospel?

Not sure, Marty. I haven't spoken in tongues, raised any dead people, or cured any diseases. But I do feel “guided” many times.

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 06 2013,19:23)

And so if you disagree, what do these scriptures mean to you?

The scriptures you quoted are metaphorical teachings, IMO. I've already addressed sayings like these in an earlier post to Pierre.

Paul says things like, “you have died to Christ”, and, “you have been raised with Christ”.

Nobody Paul was writing to had LITERALLY died at that time (or he would have been writing letters to dead people), and nobody he was writing to had LITERALLY been raised with Christ to heaven.

They are METAPHORICAL sayings. You, Pierre, 2B, and others here believe Jesus' teachings to Nicodemus were also about a METAPHORICAL rebirth. I believe, that while many sayings in scripture are metaphorical, Jesus' teachings to Nicodemus in John 3 were about LITERALLY being born again and LITERALLY being able to enter the Kingdom of God with a new, spirit, body.

Am I right? Who knows for sure? This is just the way I personally understand John 3. Obviously, opinions on the matter vary greatly, right?

January 8, 2013 at 7:04 am#327037