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Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 08 2010,10:29) Mike, If you need to complement me on such base aspect you surely do not know me… I won't even say “thanks”.
Doh! Too late, you already let it slip out! You're welcome.mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,04:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 08 2010,09:06) dude you already lost this point. Its obvously talking about Satan.
And it says his ways are perfect.
Ezequiel 28:15 Perfecto eras en todos tus caminos desde el día que fuiste criado, hasta que se halló en ti maldad.
Mike im starting to see everything you believe is basd on the netbible,
you need start reading the orginal greek or start reading the kjv, because your so lost in that net.bible. or whatever translation ur reading.
Hi Dennison,I'm not even sure what this post means. Have you got any proof that anything I've quoted from NETBible is incorrect information?
Their interpretation might not be yours, or even mine, but after all, they are INTERPRETATIONS. None of us were actually there, were we?
And I would love for you or JA to show me the scriptural proof that this lament is about Satan. Like I said, I have never even looked into it before today, so if you have something besides your opinion to say it's about Satan, hit me with it.
Btw, the KJV is not only hard for me to understand, because I don't talk like that, but it is also littered with trinity bias. They have corrected some of those mistakes in the NKJV, but not all. Besides, I use MANY different translations, including the KJV, and I also look up the Greek and Hebrew words in dictionaries and lexicons. In fact, why don't YOU go look up what the word rendered as “perfect” in A FEW TRANSLATIONS really meant in the Hebrew language?
Thanks for that mean spirited post though.
mike
How do you know you exist?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,04:55) Well Duh! Everyone knows that one. I think, therefore I am. Is that right O wise one?
mike
oh i dont know you could be a woman for all i know, and super old.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 08 2010,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,04:55) Well Duh! Everyone knows that one. I think, therefore I am. Is that right O wise one?
mike
oh i dont know you could be a woman for all i know, and super old.
Hi Dennison,Are these “fluff” posts your way of saying you have no support for your opinion that Ez was lamenting about Satan?
mike
Mike,
Have you heard of Faith (Thomas)?
There you said it THREE TIMES Now (Peter)
First Thomas, then Philip, Now Peter, who else Mike? Judas?
Mike, there is no PROOF of ANYTHING in the Scriptures – that's why WJ can be in this Forum for 10 years revamping trinitarain twaddle every few months as if he had never known, heard, been found wanting and each time discovering a new way to be wrong about belief in a false doctrine.
Mike, quote me something from Scriptures, and i can refute it: very simply – you even said it yourself, “how do you know that's what it means, or that's who it pertains to – your weren't there!”
By faith we believe and by faith we are saved … for no one know for sure but by Faith only … only he who came down from Heaven, and was man, and ascended back to heaven, knows for certain – but he left us a Covenant Promise from his Father, Almighty God, that we too, can become his brother, and as his brother, a Son of God and as a Son of God, heirs with him in the rulership in his Father's kingdom over the earth and mankind in Paradise on earth – as God the Father originated plan.
Of course, the “WE” above is “the Elect” – Don't, EVERYONE, seek to think you are one of such – for you must seek to be least in the kingdom, not the greatest. This does not mean “Don't Try” it means Humbling yourself to godliness – and by humbling yourself to Godliness you do not seek your own glory for if it were so then even the wicked would go to heaven, having 'Faith' and 'works' only in vain attempt to gain the Prize – in the same way that fanatics believe “Sacrifice” in death to [false] teaching, Faith and works, gains them a place in their version of Heaven, or after life, such as the Greek Olympia or Roman Ellycean Fields!
All these such persons equally believes that the Christian god is false, even though it is PERFECT LOGIC that doing Good against adversity is more profitable in a spiritual sense than acquiring pointless earthly riches or such purposeless selfSacrifice for a pointless fanatic cause that only serves an earthly purpose.
Jesus pointed out many things in the 'old testament' to his Disciple where it 'mentions him'. This is in the New Testament text. Should the Disciple have said,”How do we know that it is true? We hear that you were a scriptural prodigy as a child. How do we know it hasn't gone to your head and you just wanting to be the God just as you say Satan wanted to be God – Perhaps You are Satan having a second bite of the cherry? After all, it says “many will come saying, 'I am he' and show many signs and wonders!!''”
Mike, it is absolutely clear, crystal even, that this is a reference to 'Lucifer' just as much as the many scriptures that mention 'Jesus' are about Jesus – that you accept – Why not ask for proof for them, too?
Can i say that karmarie/Shimmer is quite correct, Gene has gone doolally and is “Crucifying Christ” every time he posts (for this reason, Mike, i asked you to depart from him), Nick Hassan has spun round too many time and can only post small bits of text as his spin takes him round past the keyboard.
Edj thinks that numbers is going to save us, DavidBfun think God is a [dual sex] …and..the holy spirit is female, the Mother of Jesus, because God is the father and everyone MUST have a mother and father. and that God created EVE like he created Adam (ummm – formed from Adam's rib, wasn't it? (What is Adam's Rib?, is it literal or or figurative? DNA, Qualities – removed qualities (man am I glad for that… going by some Wo… that I've seen!)And Mike, You have turned into a disbeliever – I told you too much pointless debating leads to no good – Mike, it's like this:
Take any word or sentence – say it once, then repeat it three times in your normal speaking speed, then seven quickly, then 7 times that block, then 70 times 70, and again….
Mike, , Tell me what the sentence is and what it mean… Mike, It is now MEANINGLESS…Semantically, Syntactically, Cognitively, Parsely, etc. Mike, this is what is happening… The Scriptures has lost it's meaning to you and you have fallen into the trap of Procrastination of Contemplation – Snap out of it.
Mike, do you hear people here shouting at you to wake up – but even as they shout you say “Hey, this is great – it's cos they can't answer me!”
NO Mike, it's because you are so wrong even you enemy fears for you!!!!
And you despise your brother's aid…
Mike, who then can help you realise your error – yes, God, but you are trying to be God – Maybe Your Wisdom has bloated your ego even though you have not actually won out over even the punch drunk KangarooJack or your equally debatable opponent WJ.
“If thy brother faults three time and will not listen, throw him out lest he begin to affect the congregation” (Tell me that you can't see the analogy with Satan in heaven but he drew down a third of the Stars of heaven when he was thrown out. Why did God wait so long ? because He is Holy and has time and is not partial nor impatient but even so, for the sake of man, he draws a close time.
Why three time for man, because man has a limited time and a limited tolerance level and is NOT Holy, being subject to corruption if placed in a sustained corruptible environment.
Mike, I hope you come back from reading this “Revelation”- isn't it funny how you admonish me about it and then state “Actually, i have never seen it before?”
Mike, you just said something in that statement about yourself….
To all, this was written by an anom' person on another forum, Who I learned quite a few things from, which may help here, it seems this thread is turning into another pre-existance thread which goes on and on leading to much confusion,
When you hear from the Holy Spirit and Hear the Word of God. God will speak to us when we are in the spirit, up until then we are reading words on a piece of paper and our carnal mind is trying to make sense of it.
Then we have that AH! HA! moment when things make sense.
It is impossible for those who do not have the Power of the Holy Spirit to understand the whole counsel of God. It is impossible for those who are not called to ministry to disseminate truth or recognize it. So when they teach they subvert the will of God to appeal to the weak.
This renewed Love you have for Jesus' words are just an echo of my authorized teaching by the Holy Spirit which you think you are clever in repeating. There is a difference between us in that one is authorized by the power of God and the other searches the scripture through intellect and think they have life. But as Jesus said “we will be judged by our words and condemned by them”.
================================
The religious will cry out on that day “didn't we do things for you?”. The response from God “I never knew you you workers of iniquity”. Why were they workers of iniquity? The original language says “They were lawless or without Torah”. This could be interpreted as those who don't hear the Word of God or refuse to keep the Word of God in their life.
Many religious people do not keep nor hear the Word of God, because they are focused on what some man has taught them. They have reduced the Word of God to a book of ink and paper and then elevated that book above the Teacher of the book, the Holy Spirit. The carnal mind cannot fathom anything that is not physical, so the book of ink and paper does just fine. However, the meaning which is spirit can only be understood through the spirit. We read with our eyes in the physical body, but the Holy Spirit give the meaning. When the physical carnal body tries to understand those spirit Words it tries to make sense of but, falls short. The result is a doctrine conjured up by that carnal mind. Since the carnal mind cannot comprehend the spirit, it redefines the meanings of words found in the scripture to make sense in the physical. The result is a powerless Gospel outside the understanding of the Spirit.
I teach people how to hear from God and not what to hear from God.
I can help anyone get on their way to letting the Holy Spirit teach them and then the flood gates of Revelation Knowledge from God will flow from God and God alone.[/b]
[unquote]
Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 09 2010,06:33) To all, this was written by an anom' person on another forum, Who I learned quite a few things from, which may help here, it seems this thread is turning into another pre-existance thread which goes on and on leading to much confusion, When you hear from the Holy Spirit and Hear the Word of God. God will speak to us when we are in the spirit, up until then we are reading words on a piece of paper and our carnal mind is trying to make sense of it.
Then we have that AH! HA! moment when things make sense.
It is impossible for those who do not have the Power of the Holy Spirit to understand the whole counsel of God. It is impossible for those who are not called to ministry to disseminate truth or recognize it. So when they teach they subvert the will of God to appeal to the weak.
This renewed Love you have for Jesus' words are just an echo of my authorized teaching by the Holy Spirit which you think you are clever in repeating. There is a difference between us in that one is authorized by the power of God and the other searches the scripture through intellect and think they have life. But as Jesus said “we will be judged by our words and condemned by them”.
================================
The religious will cry out on that day “didn't we do things for you?”. The response from God “I never knew you you workers of iniquity”. Why were they workers of iniquity? The original language says “They were lawless or without Torah”. This could be interpreted as those who don't hear the Word of God or refuse to keep the Word of God in their life.
Many religious people do not keep nor hear the Word of God, because they are focused on what some man has taught them. They have reduced the Word of God to a book of ink and paper and then elevated that book above the Teacher of the book, the Holy Spirit. The carnal mind cannot fathom anything that is not physical, so the book of ink and paper does just fine. However, the meaning which is spirit can only be understood through the spirit. We read with our eyes in the physical body, but the Holy Spirit give the meaning. When the physical carnal body tries to understand those spirit Words it tries to make sense of but, falls short. The result is a doctrine conjured up by that carnal mind. Since the carnal mind cannot comprehend the spirit, it redefines the meanings of words found in the scripture to make sense in the physical. The result is a powerless Gospel outside the understanding of the Spirit.
I teach people how to hear from God and not what to hear from God.
I can help anyone get on their way to letting the Holy Spirit teach them and then the flood gates of Revelation Knowledge from God will flow from God and God alone.[/b]
[unquote]
Dear Anonymous,Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.
Luk 9:50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”
Pre-existence is easy to show in the Bible, providing you believe in the Bible. Those that don't will try to explain away every verse of Scripture showing that they don't believe in the Bible.
Born or begotten, shows Jesus' relationship as a “SON” to God, no matter how he “came out”. God claimed Jesus as His son (only begotten/unique or any other way you want to put it).
How else was Jesus unique if not being the only begotten. Adam, too, is a “son of God” but NOT born by God but formed by God thru “laying on of hands”.
Act 4:12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
Jhn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He “gave” (pre-existed in Heaven WITH God who GAVE) His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:15 so that whoever believes will “in Him” have eternal life.
So when we are born-again, we too, have eternal life in us and are priviledged to give that life to whomever we choose so that others can be begotten; in the only name given under heaven to be saved. Saved AND children of God, what a dynamic duo.
The Professor
Shimmer,
This Anonymous is quite presumptuous, stating that they can bring anyone to God – I thought it was God that brought whom he wishes to the understanding THROUGH another – Who that ANOTHER is – is not theirs to boast about.
Even so, if one feels that another is speaking truth and is compelled thereby then all is well, as DavidBFun states in some of the quotes.
The problem with all these things is that ANYONE can claim of themselves that they have THE GOD GIVEN GOSPEL TRUTH – and who is to dispute with them (to the nth degree)
To this end i would suggest, and only so, that it is the learning experience that is the valued outcome:
– Did you learn anything positive from what another has written;
– Was something you thought was true firmly disputed;
– do not be ashamed to back down and confess when you are wrong – even privately if need be;
– Accept the correction;
– And not only that – Examine the rest of your beliefs in light of the new revelation;
– Above all – Pray with a humble spirit, and in private, to the God that you call “Almighty God, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ”, confessing your guilt and sins and begging for forgiveness and His spiritual aid – not solely for yourself, but also for all other God fearing ones – and for the adversaries – that they may come to change and come to know positively as God asks, nay, demands, through – all this – through Jesus Christ, the blessed son and king in heavenly office.Wow JA,
Really? First you insert the knife into my heart be calling me Judas, and then you twist it by calling me WJ?
This 500 word lambasting stems from something very simple and innocent.
1. Kathi asserted that Jesus must be “perfect” because he is the essence of the Father.
2. I said I didn't know of any intelligent being that God was said to have created “perfect” in the sense that they COULDN'T SIN.
3. You said that Satan was created “perfect”.
4. I asked you to show me that scripture.
5. You pointed me to Ez.
6. Out of the 5 or 6 online Bible sites I use, NETBible was the one I had open, so I checked it out.
7. I cut and pasted what the NET scholars had as a footnote…..that it was a lament about Adam being kicked out of the Garden of Eden.
8. At the same time, I stated that I had never looked into it……which should have been obvious by my querie as to where there was even a scripture that said Satan was created “perfect”.
9. SF jumped in saying “You have already lost this one, Mike”.
10. At which point I innocently asked (as opposed to “admonished you”) if there were supporting scriptures to back up your view that it was about Satan, because like I clearly stated for all to see, “I have never even looked into this because I didn't even know this thought existed.”
Apparently there's not, which makes this nothing but pure conjecture on your part, despite your claim that it is “crystal clear”. But for some reason, you compare your conjecture with inspired scriptures that have disciples of Jesus pointing out which OT passages were actually prophesies about Jesus. And in the middle of this strange comparison, you take time to say I can't even hold my own against Jack, that I think I'm God, that you should walk away from me because I'm an apostate that has be warned three times, that I'm a disbeliever, that I despise my brother's aid, and that I'm so wrong even my enemy fears for me.
Are you paying attention Shimmer?
Well JA, all I can say is “Wow!”
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,05:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 08 2010,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,04:55) Well Duh! Everyone knows that one. I think, therefore I am. Is that right O wise one?
mike
oh i dont know you could be a woman for all i know, and super old.
Hi Dennison,Are these “fluff” posts your way of saying you have no support for your opinion that Ez was lamenting about Satan?
mike
No im just trying to be more like you, and say whatever i want, and think thats proof enough to refute everything.Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 09 2010,02:13) Shimmer, This Anonymous is quite presumptuous, stating that they can bring anyone to God – I thought it was God that brought whom he wishes to the understanding THROUGH another – Who that ANOTHER is – is not theirs to boast about.
Even so, if one feels that another is speaking truth and is compelled thereby then all is well, as DavidBFun states in some of the quotes.
The problem with all these things is that ANYONE can claim of themselves that they have THE GOD GIVEN GOSPEL TRUTH – and who is to dispute with them (to the nth degree)
To this end i would suggest, and only so, that it is the learning experience that is the valued outcome:
– Did you learn anything positive from what another has written;
– Was something you thought was true firmly disputed;
– do not be ashamed to back down and confess when you are wrong – even privately if need be;
– Accept the correction;
– And not only that – Examine the rest of your beliefs in light of the new revelation;
– Above all – Pray with a humble spirit, and in private, to the God that you call “Almighty God, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ”, confessing your guilt and sins and begging for forgiveness and His spiritual aid – not solely for yourself, but also for all other God fearing ones – and for the adversaries – that they may come to change and come to know positively as God asks, nay, demands, through – all this – through Jesus Christ, the blessed son and king in heavenly office.
JustAskin, you are right, sorry. This quoted post was in a debate on another site and the debate was about the reality or non reality of eternal hell torment, which is the only reason why I said I learned something. I don't go to the site anymore but was reading there last night when I posted this, late at night, half asleep, I should have learnt by now,Mike,
You petition Shimmer. To what end? To be against me? Are you betraying me? How much is it worth, 30 Shekels?
Mike, Show me how you believe that the verses are about Adam, not what someone else says.
I don't engage in 'someone else says', what do You say?There is no need for external input for the Scriptures, more than so.
And the internet is full of personal interpretations, so who's is more correct than another's? Who is the judge?
How and since when, for instance, is man, Adam, ever called, 'Cherub'? You know what a Cherub, so why the confusion?
When was Adam 'on the mountoun of God'?
Are you saying you don't know what this means?
Say, 'No, I don't know' and you express ignorance, therefore, in you dispute.
But say 'Yes, I do know' and you condemn yourself in that same ignorance.The 'allegory' is directly related to the king of Tyre and is another of the 'fractal' Scriptures: One 'story' supporting another in its essence: The king became high and mighty and rich by sinful exploitation of his gift of 'wisdom'..how is this related to Adam?
The 'Anointed Cherub' sinfully exploited his power and beauty to try and obtain glory in God's throne…how is this related to Adam?
Satan decieved Adam claiming that Adam could become 'like God, knowing Good and Bad' but that was all, 'like God'…Satan wanted to BE God!I give you my thiughts. Yours please…
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 09 2010,07:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,05:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 08 2010,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,04:55) Well Duh! Everyone knows that one. I think, therefore I am. Is that right O wise one?
mike
oh i dont know you could be a woman for all i know, and super old.
Hi Dennison,Are these “fluff” posts your way of saying you have no support for your opinion that Ez was lamenting about Satan?
mike
No im just trying to be more like you, and say whatever i want, and think thats proof enough to refute everything.
Hi Dennison,While I appreciate you trying to be more like me, could you show me where I didn't back up something I claimed with scripture?
I believe that was a very misleading thing to say about me…….and I believe you know it.
Btw, is there a scripture you know of to support your assertion that Ez was “fractal” about Satan?
mike
Mike, I know JustAskin is rather harsh at times but He is only trying to help, it is because He cares about you. Sometimes we need that, I know I do and I am grateful.
I understood what you said. Others talk about Gardening, Weather, Sports, or whatnot, but you like to talk about God. I was like that and still am, but I went down the path you are on, studying all the other writing's, I became so confused, it starts with some writings then leads onto more, Mike, you need to return to Scripture because there is much division and differing opinions in the Early Church Writings, that is where it will get confusing for you.
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 09 2010,10:30) Mike, Show me how you believe that the verses are about Adam, not what someone else says.
I don't engage in 'someone else says', what do You say?There is no need for external input for the Scriptures, more than so.
And the internet is full of personal interpretations, so who's is more correct than another's? Who is the judge?
How and since when, for instance, is man, Adam, ever called, 'Cherub'? You know what a Cherub, so why the confusion?
Hi JA,How many times can I say it? I HADN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE PASSAGE UNTIL YESTERDAY. When you listed that scripture all arrogantly, as if I should have automatically known about the scripture that “calls Satan perfect”, I looked it up in NETBible. This is their translation,
Ezekiel 28:14 NET
I placed you there with an anointed guardian cherub; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked about amidst fiery stones.I read this translation, and the info they gave about it being about Adam, and posted it. I now see that most translations have the king of Tyre being CALLED a cherub, not saying he was WITH A CHERUB.
So whether it is fractal about Satan or not, why would God have Exekiel call the real king of Tyre at the time a “cherub”?
And in verse 16, while most translations say, “I expelled you, O guardian cherub”, the NET says, “the gaurdian cherub expelled you”.
So there's definitely something going on in the translation. I don't know why the NET scholars rendered those verses the way they did, and why they think it was about Adam. When I get time, I'll delve into it farther and see if any other Bibles put it the way the NET does.
But for now, I will remain undecided and assume it is written about the actual king of Tyre at that time, like it says.
Come on you guys. I was having a discussion about my contention that God created NO PERSONS that were “perfect” in that they couldn't sin. And you hit me with “Satan was perfect” out of the blue.
So JA, I was accurate in saying there is no scripture that says any being was created “perfect” in that they couldn't sin. And I still feel correct in saying that NOBODY, INCLUDING JESUS, WAS CREATED IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY COULDN'T SIN AT ALL.
If you are happy that Ez is “fractal” about Satan, more power to ya, brother. I can't think about that right now, I've got too many irons in the fire. But I'd love to get back to it sometime……I'm sure it is part of why you think Satan was God's real firstborn.
peace and love,
mikeHi Shimmer,
I have never studied the writings of the early church fathers as you have. In fact, the most I've ever read was what you posted from Ignatius. Oh, and I've read one small clip that WJ posted from Eusebius. Just that little bit confused me.
And I've also never left scripture for a second. So I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Personally, I couldn't care less about how the early church fathers believed. I do think their letters come in handy for supporting what certain Biblical words actually meant closer to the time the Bible was written. Like “monogenes”, that the three “J's” try to say had nothing to do with Jesus' birth because that's not how the word was used back then. The Ignatius letters you posted helped a great deal to show that “begotten” literally meant “begotten” to him, a Greek speaking pupil of the Apostle John himself. And that shoots down the “it didn't have that meaning back then” argument real fast…….or at least it should have.
Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks for your concern, but to be honest with you, you seem to be telling me to disregard what other mere mortal men think in favor of aligning myself with what JA, another mere mortal man thinks. Maybe I'm just reading your post wrong.
Either way, I like to make my own conclusions based on scriptures and a little background info on the words used in those scriptures.
On some things, JA and I agree…….on some others, we don't. And I don't mind someone politely suggesting I compare this scripture, or check out that one. But I definitely don't enjoy someone arrogantly and condescendingly shoving their version of “my way is the only way it could be” down my throat, all while belittling and insulting me……..especially with no supporting scriptural evidence.
peace and love to you,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 09 2010,06:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 09 2010,07:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,05:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 08 2010,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,04:55) Well Duh! Everyone knows that one. I think, therefore I am. Is that right O wise one?
mike
oh i dont know you could be a woman for all i know, and super old.
Hi Dennison,Are these “fluff” posts your way of saying you have no support for your opinion that Ez was lamenting about Satan?
mike
No im just trying to be more like you, and say whatever i want, and think thats proof enough to refute everything.
Hi Dennison,While I appreciate you trying to be more like me, could you show me where I didn't back up something I claimed with scripture?
I believe that was a very misleading thing to say about me…….and I believe you know it.
Btw, is there a scripture you know of to support your assertion that Ez was “fractal” about Satan?
mike
Can you prove that you have?You have not
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