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HI K
I agreed with much of what you last wrote what I didn’t agree with is
God did not sacrifice Jesus as God is not a priest but instead is served by priests.
Jesus sacrificed himself, which is why he is called the high priest in the order of Melchizedek. His self sacrifice is an act of mercy as by it he kills the enemies of God and rescues God’s people from their sins.
If God planned for Jesus to be killed from the foundation of the world then there is no such thing as Judas as being a betrayer…since the scriptures say Judas betrayed Jesus and Jesus was upset by the betrayal it shows one thing. Jesus hadn’t planned it and this was further stated when he uttered the words “Not my will”
Of course The Quran is explicit that the Jews planned to Murder Jesus just a the Gospels say but the Quran has Jesus saved from this murder plot
Bodhitharta,
There is evidence in Scripture that Jesus knew that Judas planned to betray him but that his students failed to understand the meaning of his words at that time. Luke 22:21 tells us he knew one of those with him was about to betray him.
I do not believe Jesus is God. I proclaim he is a human being that died because of the sins of the whole world, was resurrected as death could not keep hold of one who had chosen never to sin, and as a result of his perfect faith God made him king of all things in heaven and on earth.
God could have chosen to save him but chose not to because it was necessary for Jesus to be tempted unto death in order to reveal that he was a human God could boast of, even more than with Job. Job was tested short of death and and only found to be guilty of self righteousness but Jesus was tested unto death and found guilty of nothing.
Hi K
There is evidence in Scripture that Jesus knew that Judas planned to betray him but that his students failed to understand the meaning of his words at that time. Luke 22:21 tells us he knew one of those with him was about to betray him.
That is my point if it is a betrayal then there is no offering of himself.
I do not believe Jesus is God.I proclaim he is a human being that died because of the sins of the whole world, was resurrected as death could not keep hold of one who had chosen never to sin, and as a result of his perfect faith God made him king of all things in heaven and on earth.
It is appointed to man to die once so even being resurrected would not have cancelled out his death, also everyone will be resurrected. Of course had their plan worked and Jesus was killed you are right it would be “because of the sins of the whole world”
God could have chosen to save him but chose not to because it was necessary for Jesus to be tempted unto death in order to reveal that he was a human God could boast of, even more than with Job. Job was tested short of death and and only found to be guilty of self righteousness but Jesus was tested unto death and found guilty of nothing.
God does boast of Jesus and what could be more thrilling to find out that God saved Jesus. So the life of Jesus brought and continue to bring many to salvation and then you find out that Jesus was also saved from the plot of the Jews now that is a story worth boasting about: Through Jesus, God saves and then again, God saves Jesus.
Hi BD,
So your life is governed by the rules of men.
The betrayal of Jesus is irrespective of his decision to offer himself.
Every decision men make is observed and bad ones will bring possible painful consequences
Hi BD,
Mt 26.24
“The Son of man is to go, just as is written of him;but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born”
Bodhitharta,
Thank you for clarifying your point.
Jesus sacrificed himself by going to the slaughter as meekly as a lamb instead of calling legions of angels to defend him. He told Peter that when the later struck of the ear of one of those that came to capture Jesus. The evidence appears to reveal that those coming to seize him were afraid of just that from wonder worker that was among them.
His resurrection did not cancel out his death as that death was necessary but it did reveal that death has no force over those that live according to the teaching of the Spirit of God and not according to the desires of their own godless nature.
Peter was saved from a plot of the Jews as they planned to put him to death. Jesus was saved from the clutches of death and then ascended bodily to heaven. Moses is the only other one that I have heard that was also done with and in that case Satan was able to protest because of the past sins Moses committed.
Hi Nick
Hi BD,
Did Jesus lie in Jn 10 and 15 or do you need to justify your own ideas?
In JN 10 and his figure of speech about being a shepherd it talks about how when the wolf comes a hired hand will run away but the good shepherd will stay and protect the flock
JN10 11“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.
13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
Matthew 26:13 Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: “‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
To lay down your life does not mean to die but it means being prepared to die obviously if the wolf attacks the point of the shepherd is not to get killed by the wolf as that would leave the sheep even more exposed, so being prepared to thwart the attack of the wolf is the main point, being ready to die to protect the sheep. If you simply let the wolf eat you by laying down you and the sheep will get eaten.
John 15
22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
Once again we see here that there is no idea of dying or being crucified for any benefit or so that people can be saved it shows the idea of God giving the people every reason to believe in Him through Jesus Christ as it says:
John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be savedJohn 3:19King James Version (KJV)
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
So crucifying Christ would have condemned them all, so there was no salvation through crucifixion and nor did Jesus offer himself up as he said “they hated me without cause”
When Jesus makes a Quote I always refer to what he is quoting to see the context
Psalm 35 King James Version (KJV)
35 Plead my cause, O Lord, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me.
2 Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help.
3 Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.
4 Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the Lord chase them.
6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the Lord persecute them.
7 For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul.
8 Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall.
9 And my soul shall be joyful in the Lord: it shall rejoice in his salvation.
10 All my bones shall say, Lord, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him?
11 False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not.
12 They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul.
13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.
14 I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother.
15 But in mine adversity they rejoiced, and gathered themselves together: yea, the abjects gathered themselves together against me, and I knew it not; they did tear me, and ceased not:
16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.
17 Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions.
18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among much people.19 Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.
20 For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land.
21 Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it.
22 This thou hast seen, O Lord: keep not silence: O Lord, be not far from me.
23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord.
24 Judge me, O Lord my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me.
25 Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up.
26 Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonour that magnify themselves against me.27 Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
28 And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long.
Jesus would have prayed that prayer or one just like it, in it he asks the lord to confuse them and do anything at all to rescue him and remember Jesus said “not my will” so he was praying to be rescued and no where in the bible do you have a verse where God is saying a servant of his MUST die to save sinners so just how you tell the people who believe in the trinity likewise Jesus as a sacrifice is not expressed by God at all in the bible. So knowing Jesus prayed to be saved by confounding his assailants the Quaran acknowledges his prayer was answered according to God’s righteous judgement
That they said (in boast), “we killed christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)
Hi Bd,
You disagree with Jesus .
Are you greater?
Answer the question as to whether you consider him a liar or merely misguided compared with you.
Hi Nick
Hi Bd,
You disagree with Jesus .
Are you greater?
Answer the question as to whether you consider him a liar or merely misguided compared with you.
Did you actually read anything that was written? Where did I disagree?
Hi BD,
He lays down his life for the sheep.
Your false logic and intellectual trips do not compare with the veracity of Scripture.
Is Jesus a liar??
Hi Nick
so are you saying that the phrase lays down life for the sheep means
1. I die for the sheep or
2. I would die for the sheepHi BD,
Is Jesus a liar?
Do the scriptures lie?
Does God not look after His scriptures?
Does God lie?
Are you the true fount of truth?
hi BD,
Scripture predicted the death of Jesus.
Scripture records the death of Jesus.
You disagree.
The choice is easy for us but your attitude surprises.
The Holy Spirit of God wrote scripture through men and few would take on the Holy Spirit.
Hi Nick
Hi BD,
Is Jesus a liar?
No
Do the scriptures lie?
No, they are written according to
Does God not look after His scriptures?
Yes, that is why God sent down the Quran, to protect the truth
Does God lie?
No
Are you the true fount of truth?
God is, but you fail to believe ALL His revelations
Hi BD,
There is no place for your master in the ways of God.
The Spirit of God does not reside in rebels.
Scriptures are written according to what?
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