Bizzaro World Doctrines

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 27 2011,10:34)

So why do you keep saying there is only “1 theos/god” when by your own words you believe in and serve “2 theos/gods”?

Keith,

Do you WORSHIP two Gods as God Almighty? If not, then why don't you address the other part of my post, instead of the part about Kathi?

Address the fact that since scripture doesn't claim Jesus as God Almighty, you've asserted that the “Spirit of Truth” must show us this.

And my point to YOU was about what to do when the scriptures say Jesus is the SON of God, but the spirit that's talking to you says he IS God?

Do you not even wonder why what that spirit is telling you is contradictory to the scriptures?

June 28, 2011 at 6:20 pm#250201

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,21:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 27 2011,10:34)

So why do you keep saying there is only “1 theos/god” when by your own words you believe in and serve “2 theos/gods”?

Keith,

Do you WORSHIP two Gods as God Almighty?

No because my God is the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit because I cannot have or worship one without the other!

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,21:05)

If not, then why don't you address the other part of my post, instead of the part about Kathi?

Address the fact that since scripture doesn't claim Jesus as God Almighty, you've asserted that the “Spirit of Truth” must show us this.

Wrong. The scriptures clearly claim that Jesus is “God Almighty” because all things are in his hands and by him all things consist and he is the “source” of all things to the creation!

Your spiritual eyes cannot see this because you have bought into the lie that Jesus is a created being who is not equal to God!

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,21:05)

And my point to YOU was about what to do when the scriptures say Jesus is the SON of God, but the spirit that's talking to you says he IS God?

Well there you go playing those word games again because with your own words you said…

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2011,14:05)

Jesus is one who has been called by the title “god”, so he is also “A god”. He has not specifically been called “THE god” of anything in particular, “but knowing that “god” only means “ruler”, I can honestly say that he is “my god”.

The Biblical context tells us Jesus is “Supreme Ruler” and “Sovereign” over all the creation!

Again Mike you are playing the theos/god game. Remember The scriptures have no caps and context dictates if one is “The True God” or not!

The scriptures tell us Jesus is both God and the Son of God and when you realize that to the Jew for Jesus to claim God as his personal Father was a claim to be equal to God, and that is why they wanted to stone him, then you will have the whole truth.

It took divine revelation for Peter to see this.

If Jesus claim as the “Only Begotten Son of God” meant what you say then why did the Jews want to kill him…

The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, “because he made himself the Son of God. John 19:7

John's testomony is clear that Jesus being the “Only Begotten Son of God” meant equality with God and that is not what you believe!

That is why the demons cried out 'thou are the Son of the Living God” and Jesus commanded them not to tell anyone.

To claim he was the “Only Begotten Son of God” was claiming equality with God.

When you see the whole truth rather than the lie that you believe and that is you believe Jesus is a “little god” with a “little g” like all the rest including the imposter satan, then you will know Jesus is both God and Savior to the true believer and not just “a god” and “a savior”.

John’s testimony is clear that Jesus is the Word that was with God and was God who in every way in nature is God like the Father just as in every way a human in nature is human like his Father.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,21:05)

Do you not even wonder why what that spirit is telling you is contradictory to the scriptures?

A lying Spirit has told you that Jesus is a created being who is some kind of funnel or puppet on a string and that he is not the source of all things to his people.

A lying Spirit has told you that Jesus is not “Equal” to the Father in nature, power, life, Love, wisdom, grace, peace, mercy, and the source of our faith and salvation and eternal life.

A lying spirit has told you that Jesus is “a god” and not “The God” and “a savior” and not “The Savior”.

A Lying spirit has told you that you serve and bow down to more than “one theos/god and more than “one savior”.

June 28, 2011 at 6:44 pm#250204

Participant

Good post Keith, I agree with almost everything that is in your above post. Kudos!

June 28, 2011 at 6:46 pm#250205

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2011,16:51)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,08:34)

Ed wrote:

Hi WJ,

Pointing out that my food comes to me by the hand of a waitress,
hardly constitutes as me denying Jesus as savior of the world./quote]
Ed

Yes it does because in essence you are saying Jesus is not “The Savior” and “The Owner” of all things and the “Source” of all things to the creation.

You are making the argument that Jsus is “The Savior” by proxy like the waitress who serves the food but is not the source of the food nor does she own the food.

By him (Jesus) all things consist and all things belong to him. John 13:3, Col 1:17

Hi WJ,

What I have actually said is this…

“God The Father” (JEHOVAH) is “The Savior”(=117) and “The Owner”.
Jesus (יהשוע: YÄ-shü-ă) is God's Son, owner and savior.
Let's try to keep what I say accurately; OK?

Ed says…

“God The Father” (JEHOVAH) is “The Savior”(=117) and “The Owner”.

And…

Jesus is God's Son, owner and savior.

Which means..

The Father = “The Savior”

The Father = “The Owner”

Jesus = “owner”

Jesus = “savior”

“Savior” + “savior” = 2 “saviors”

“Owner” + “owner” = 2 “owners”.

Yep you have more than one “Owner and Savior”.

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2011,16:51)

Col.1:17 is referencing “God The Father”(=117),
as he is the subject starting at verse 13 of Colossians.

Wrong! Read it in its entire context for verses 14-22 is speaking of Jesus clear as day.

Being that the scriptures claim all things are in Jesus hands is confirmation that all thing consist by him!

June 28, 2011 at 6:49 pm#250206

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2011,13:44)

Good post Keith, I agree with almost everything that is in your above post. Kudos!

Hi Kathi

Thanks!

June 28, 2011 at 7:16 pm#250210

Participant

Yes Keith,

Quote

Wrong! Read it in its entire context for verses 14-22 is speaking of Jesus clear as day.

It is clear as day Keith. You would have to be blind to not see that. The 'Firstborn of all creation' thread is evidence of that.

And you are welcome

Keep up the good work,
Kathi

June 28, 2011 at 8:34 pm#250219

Ed J

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2011,05:46)

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2011,16:51)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,08:34)

Ed wrote:

Hi WJ,

Pointing out that my food comes to me by the hand of a waitress,
hardly constitutes as me denying Jesus as savior of the world./quote]
Ed

Yes it does because in essence you are saying Jesus is not “The Savior” and “The Owner” of all things and the “Source” of all things to the creation.

You are making the argument that Jsus is “The Savior” by proxy like the waitress who serves the food but is not the source of the food nor does she own the food.

By him (Jesus) all things consist and all things belong to him. John 13:3, Col 1:17

Hi WJ,

What I have actually said is this…

“God The Father” (JEHOVAH) is “The Savior”(=117) and “The Owner”.
Jesus (יהשוע: YÄ-shü-ă) is God's Son, owner and savior.
Let's try to keep what I say accurately; OK?

Ed says…

“God The Father” (JEHOVAH) is “The Savior”(=117) and “The Owner”.

And…

Jesus is God's Son, owner and savior.

Which means..

The Father = “The Savior”

The Father = “The Owner”

Jesus = “owner”

Jesus = “savior”

“Savior” + “savior” = 2 “saviors”

“Owner” + “owner” = 2 “owners”.

Yep you have more than one “Owner and Savior”.

Acts 18:15 But if it be a question of words and names, and of your law, look ye to it; for I will be no judge of such matters.
.

June 28, 2011 at 8:48 pm#250222

Participant

Acts 18:15 put in context…

12But while Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews with one accord rose up against Paul and brought him before the judgment seat, 13saying, “This man persuades men to worship God contrary to the law.” 14But when Paul was about to open his mouth, Gallio said to the Jews, “If it were a matter of wrong or of vicious crime, O Jews, it would be reasonable for me to put up with you; 15but if there are questions about words and names and your own law, look after it yourselves; I am unwilling to be a judge of these matters.” 16And he drove them away from the judgment seat. 17And they all took hold of Sosthenes, the leader of the synagogue, and began beating him in front of the judgment seat. But Gallio was not concerned about any of these things.

June 28, 2011 at 9:19 pm#250229

Participant

Quote (t8 @ June 23 2011,18:30)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 24 2011,09:17)

His name shall be called “Everlasting Father” because he is the source of all things to all of creation. Sure I call him “My” everlasting Father because the scriptures say he is!

Be honest, besides now, when was the last time you referred to Jesus Christ as the Everlasting Father?
Or for that matter, when did you call him Emanuel?

All the time, when I quote Isa 9:6, 10:21 and Jer 32:18 I call him my Mighty God and Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace etc.

When I say Jesus is “God with us” I fulfill the scripture with my testimony that Jesus is “Emanuel”.

But you do not say Jesus is “Your Mighty God” or that he is “God with us” do you t8?

June 28, 2011 at 9:39 pm#250232

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2011,07:34)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2011,05:46)

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2011,16:51)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,08:34)

Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2011,16:25)

Hi WJ,

Pointing out that my food comes to me by the hand of a waitress,
hardly constitutes as me denying Jesus as savior of the world.

Yes it does because in essence you are saying Jesus is not “The Savior” and “The Owner” of all things and the “Source” of all things to the creation.

You are making the argument that Jsus is “The Savior” by proxy like the waitress who serves the food but is not the source of the food nor does she own the food.

By him (Jesus) all things consist and all things belong to him. John 13:3, Col 1:17

Hi WJ,

What I have actually said is this…

“God The Father” (JEHOVAH) is “The Savior”(=117) and “The Owner”.
Jesus (יהשוע: YÄ-shü-ă) is God's Son, owner and savior.
Let's try to keep what I say accurately; OK?

Ed says…

“God The Father” (JEHOVAH) is “The Savior”(=117) and “The Owner”.

And…

Jesus is God's Son, owner and savior.

Which means..

The Father = “The Savior”

The Father = “The Owner”

Jesus = “owner”

Jesus = “savior”

“Savior” + “savior” = 2 “saviors”

“Owner” + “owner” = 2 “owners”.

Yep you have more than one “Owner and Savior”.

Acts 18:15 But if it be a question of words and names, and of your law, look ye to it; for I will be no judge of such matters.
.

Hi WJ,

Since “God The Father”(117) raised Jesus back to life (Gal.1:1), would that not make Him “The Savior”(117)? <– Please answer.

God The Father, who raised Jesus from the dead. (Gal.1:1)

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

June 28, 2011 at 11:32 pm#250243

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2011,05:20)

To claim he was the “Only Begotten Son of God” was claiming equality with God.

To claim equality by its very nature means that you are not claiming to be thing you are equal to.

Equal rights for women, doesn't mean that women are now men/male.

I seriously think that most of your misconceptions could be fixed if you used English and English grammar correctly.

June 28, 2011 at 11:44 pm#250245

Proclaimer

Participant

The idea that claiming equality to something makes you the same thing certainly fits the Bizzaro World Doctrines description.

Proponents of this idea ignore the truth that being equal means you are still not that which you are equal to.

e.g., 3+3 = 6 and 2+2+2=6

2 is NOT 3, but they can be equal when applied in a certain way.

Or a foot-long at subway may be equal to a one foot piece of wood, but you won't ever see me eat a one foot piece of wood.
I suffer from terrible indigestion sometimes, and I suspect that consuming a piece of wood would be the worst thing to do.

June 29, 2011 at 12:11 am#250249

Proclaimer

Participant

Another Bizzaro World Doctrine.

That the Trinity God is the saviour (singular).

Why is this bizzare? Because savour is a word that is applied to persons and not nature.
Now the Trinity Doctrine says that the substance is made up of three persons, namely the Father, Son, and Spirit.

Therefore God to a Trinitarian is/are their SAVIOURS, because three persons are their saviours.

Quote

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2011,01:49)

Quote (t8 @ June 27 2011,17:35)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,05:12)

How many Saviors do you have ED?

You have three.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

How many do you have EdJ?
Can you beat WJ?

That is a lie! My God and Savior are One. Because the truth of the scriptures are “They are our Savior and our “theos/god”, and not our saviors or gods because you cannot have one without the other.

It is you that claims the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not One God or One Savior.

WJ, you do not understand your own doctrine.

Let me spell it out for you.

The Trinity God is a substance made up of three persons.
So if the substance (singular) is the saviour (singular), then that means that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE the SAVIOURS.
Why? Because the word saviour is applied to persons, not to nature or substance.

See that WJ. The Trinity is what it is.

Accept it or reject it, but since you teach it, I think you need to accept it.

You have 3 persons that are saviours.

Do I really need to spell out your own doctrine for you because if that is the case, then I understand your doctrine more than yourself. This then leads to what I have repeated a number of times, that is, you shouldn't be teaching this stuff because you lack understanding in this whole area and this will lead to a harsher judgement given that teachers are judged all the more.

I will now add this to Bizzaro World Doctrines.

June 29, 2011 at 3:09 am#250257

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,12:20)

my God is the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit because I cannot have or worship one without the other!

The Israelites of old worshipped Jehovah through Aaron and his descendants. It didn't make Aaron and his descendents “God Almighty” or equal to Him, did it? And now we are to worship Jehovah through His new Priest, Jesus. If Aaron wasn't to be worshipped as Priest TO Jehovah, then why would you think Jehovah's new Priest is to be worshipped?

Plus, Jesus worshipped and prayed to a God while he was on earth, right? He called that One “the only true God”, right? And if “the only true God” consists of the Father, Son AND Spirit, Jesus was in effect worshipping and praying to himself, right? How much sense does that make?

Plus, the angel didn't tell John, “Worship God AND His Son”, did he? But see, therein lies the crux of your obvious misunderstanding. You've been blinded by the god of this world and made to think the Son OF God actually IS the God he is the Son OF – even when that very Son tells us that he has the same exact God we all have.

To those of us who aren't blinded, this is so far beyond ridiculous that we have a hard time understanding how even ONE sensible person could ever believe such a blasphemous atrocity, let alone millions and millions of seemingly sensible people.

I'm sorry Keith. You can pretend all you want to, but the simple fact is that no son EVER in the history of creation started his existence at the same time as the one who brought him forth, nor has any son EVER been the same exact being as the one who brought him forth.

Jehovah is the One who established the rules and laws concerning father/son relationships in the first place. He is the One who set in place the laws of nature which stipulate that a son begins his existence sometime AFTER his father has already existed for a while. Those same laws also stipulate that a father and his own son are ALWAYS separate, individual beings.

Now, knowing that He is the One who set these laws in place; and knowing how human beings have understood father/son relationships since Adam, why in the world would our God create confusion among us by using the titles “Father” and “Son” for His relationship with Jesus if none of those rules He Himself set up apply to their relationship?

Chew on that for a while, Keith. Oh, and Kathi too.

peace and love to you both,
mike

June 29, 2011 at 3:24 am#250258

Blocked

Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,18:11)

Therefore God to a Trinitarian is/are their SAVIOURS, because three persons are their saviours.

Good one, t8! Here's another:

Jesus is only literally “God with us” when it suits the Trinitarians.

Case in point:

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,12:20)

John's testomony is clear that Jesus being the “Only Begotten Son of God” meant equality with God……..

But when we point out this scripture, for example……………
John 14:28
the Father is greater than I.

…………………all of a sudden Jesus was less than equal with God, but only because of his humanity.

Well, wasn't Jesus also a human when the Jews said what they said and the Trinitarians pounced on that as proof that Jesus IS equal to God?

What gives guys? Jesus either WAS equal to God while on earth, or he WASN'T. Which is it? Pick an answer and stick with only that answer throughout the whole NT, okay?

June 29, 2011 at 3:28 am#250259

Blocked

Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,17:44)

Perhaps the roughage provided by a foot long piece of wood would help your indigestion.

June 29, 2011 at 3:39 am#250260

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2011,13:16)

Yes Keith,

Quote

Wrong! Read it in its entire context for verses 14-22 is speaking of Jesus clear as day.

It is clear as day Keith. You would have to be blind to not see that.

Now you know how WE feel when you can't see that Jesus is the Son, Priest, Servant, worshipper, sacrificial Lamb, Mediator, and Christ OF God instead of God Himself.

For instance, of the 14-22 passage Keith has mentioned, verses 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 all refer to Jesus as someone OTHER THAN God Himself.

June 29, 2011 at 3:50 am#250261

Blocked

Quote (t8 @ June 28 2011,17:44)

The idea that claiming equality to something makes you the same thing certainly fits the Bizzaro World Doctrines description.

Keith and Kathi,

Would you guys please address this logical fact for once?

When you apply to Jesus the words “EQUAL TO GOD”, do you even realize that at the same time you're also confirming that Jesus cannot possibly BE the God you claim him to be “EQUAL TO”? The very words “EQUAL TO GOD” would absolutely have to refer to someone OTHER THAN God.

June 29, 2011 at 4:19 am#250266