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Hi,
Ramblinrose has posted a link to this site in the trinity forum
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules….sid=109It is interesting in it's views on the “Holy Spirit”[=God to them} and “gift of holy spirit”
Also Jesus as having no human derivation being a genetically perfect recreation. This makes Mary a surrogate mother only and makes Jesus not the son of David.
I would be interested in the views of others.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2005,23:05) Hi,
Ramblinrose has posted a link to this site in the trinity forum
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules….sid=109It is interesting in it's views on the “Holy Spirit”[=God to them} and “gift of holy spirit”
Also Jesus as having no human derivation being a genetically perfect recreation. This makes Mary a surrogate mother only and makes Jesus not the son of David.
I would be interested in the views of others.
I started to read yesterday and have not gotten to the parts you refer to Nick, so I can't comment. Off the top of my head though, Christ is from the house of David and is related to him. The genealogy is pretty clear.I also am struggling over their interpretation of John 1:1, saying that the Word in that passage, does not refer to Christ.
Hi Cubes,
Further reading shows that they do teach Jesus was conceived of Mary. That means he cannot have been genetically perfect surely. I would have thought that would have been an unnecessary presumption anyway. Scripture says the creation was “very good” in God's eyes and not “perfect”.
To be “man” all one has to have is a body derived from dust according to Genesis 2, the tent or “outer man” Paul wanted to be rid of. Christ was “man” like us as at least 7 scriptures confirm. But that is only what is seen. It says nothing about the “inner man” or “vessel” and there is the difference. Only those with eyes of the Spirit could “see” Christ was vastly different and superior in that way as John expressed so beautifully.
Until you are born again of water and the Spirit you cannot”see”the kingdom. I suspect this denomination is one that defines man as only body and spirit denying soul, so they cannot grasp these simple facts about Christ and us.I can understand how the Holy Spirit is “the finger of God” as Christ expressed in Lk 11 but not God Himself. God is in heaven.
Hi,
We know that Jesus, as a child, had to learn through the rod and suffering, obedience. He was not seen as being physically superior and Isaiah suggests even the opposite. He must have been without blemish though to be the paschal lamb of God. Adam did not have that opportunity as he was created adult.
His inner vessel was clean though so God filled him with His Spirit. He had no sin. Sin comes from within and defiles a man, as Jesus explained to the Pharisees, who were told to clean the inside of the cup.
The unitarian site says that Christ was created at birth so could not exist before then. So they do say he was only a man denying the glory he had as the only begotten Son of God who came in the flesh.Hi,
I note the site says Jesus “represented his Father”.Are they saying the Father was not living in him by the Spirit but that he was completely separate from the Father as a common man?Hi,
The soul does not exist, according to their teachings. What is it that goes to Sheol then? The body rots away and the spirit returns to God.
I can find no mention of angels or Satan either.Hi,
I can see no mention of how one is saved on the site. There is plenty of information about God and Jesus but all this knowledge does not bring us back into the family of God. Jesus said to seek first the kingdom of God and everything else will be added to you.Is seeking knowledge without salvation just an exercise in futility? Jesus said you must be born again and this does not seem to to rate in their teaching. It is those who obey whom he knows not those who call him Lord surely. And being known by him matters far more than how religious we are or how much we may know about him.
Hi,
They also say many good things but there are a couple that I would questionThey say Jesus had no will of his own. That is not true and denies the tremendous struggle he had submitting his own will to that of the Father in the garden of Gethsemene when, after pleading for his life, he said
” Not my will but thine be done”[Lk 22.42]They also say Jesus had no independant existence. Scripture says he had life in himself.[Jn 5.26]
The facts that Jesus was independant and had his own will emphasises the tremendous thing he did for us. Thank you Lord.
Hi t8,
It has come as a surprise to me, given the number of Unitarian articles we have had shown on this site, that none have arisen to explain or defend their doctrines.Hi,
This religion seems to deny Christ as the Son of God and prefer the Old Testament to the New.It would be good to get more discussion on it, though I note the link Ramblinrose gave us does not seem to work anymore.
Hi,
The biblical unitarian site tells us this is what being saved is about and this is how you are born again“When you confess Christ as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead you become a christian i.e you get 'born again' and become a member of the family of God”
Just like that!
One moment of intellectual contemplation and assent and and eternity is yours!
No need for repentance!
No need for the witness of baptism or the empowering by the Spirit.While it is obvious that this doctrine comes from Romans 10 it bears no similarity to the teaching of Jesus or the work of the disciples of Jesus in Acts. It makes what Peter said to the assembled crowds at Pentecost a bunch of lies and the blood of those who died for the gospel wasted.
Romans 10 is not the gospel of salvation for today. It comes into being when the signs of the sun and moon have taken place if you read it in the context of Joel which is quoted.
Romans 10 is truth but it has been misappropriated and used as a false salvation gospel. Just as the first words spoken to the jailor in Acts 16 are used by some to teach the same false message.
Faith does not obviate obedience.
Acts 16.31f
“'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household' And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptised, he and all his household””Hey Nick,
There are two sites, i have been checking out the other one they have and find some of their views very interesting… Holy Spirit, and the gift of “holy spirit”, they have writings on salvation, end times, church administration etc go check: http://www.truthortradition.com
Not too sure of their take on who Jesus is though.
The believe in Satan, but not an eternal hellfire as far as I can see.
I find their teaching on the kingdom of God has been helpful for me to gain further understanding… I think they use a lot of Anthony Buzzards ideas.
http://www.restorationfellowship.org I think it is… this may help you get a better understanding of what they teach.
Ciao
Nick they believe in baptism but not water baptism… as far as i understand water baptism is of the old testament times, ceremonial cleansing but it has been surpassed by being baptised into Jesus… he would baptize with holy sprit and fire… the one baptism spoken about by Paul in Ephesians 4:5
It speaks of the cleansing of the inward man, rather than the cleansing of the outward man…
I found this article interesting – I would love to know your thoughts
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules….sid=413
Ciao
their view on salvation:
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules….sid=379
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