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Mike,
The context of Heb 1 says nothing about a new name but it does call Him 'the Son of God' in the context. The literal Son of God would be superior to the angels. I think that the point is that He is far superior to the angels.Mike,
you said:Quote THE Most High God does have a Son named Jesus. If Jesus doesn't, then Jesus is not THE Most High God. He can be a member of the unity of the Most High God as the Lord of lords.
No he can't, because if “The Most High God” is a unity, then it would be that unity who has a Son named Jesus. If only ONE has a Son named Jesus, then only ONE is “The Most High God”.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2012,17:42) Mike,
The context of Heb 1 says nothing about a new name but it does call Him 'the Son of God' in the context. The literal Son of God would be superior to the angels. I think that the point is that He is far superior to the angels.
It is scriptural that Jesus INHERITED a NEW name when his God exalted him to His right hand. It is scriptural that, as of now, only Jesus knows this name (and presumably his God who gave it to him). Yet he was already known to be the Son of God while he was on the earth. Therefore, that can't possibly be the name he inherited when his God raised him from the dead.Anyway, the wording clearly speaks of someone who returned to a HIGHER position and name than when he left. Of course, you won't allow yourself to see that, so there's no need discussing that point any further for now.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 28 2012,19:34) No he can't, because if “The Most High God” is a unity, then it would be that unity who has a Son named Jesus. If only ONE has a Son named Jesus, then only ONE is “The Most High God”.
Mike,
Follow along:
If the United States is a unity, then it would be that unity that has a President named Obama.Obama is a member of the unity that he is a president of.
Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.
Obama is the president within the unity called 'United States.'
Jesus is the Son within the unity called 'God Most High.'Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 28 2012,19:37) Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2012,17:42) Mike,
The context of Heb 1 says nothing about a new name but it does call Him 'the Son of God' in the context. The literal Son of God would be superior to the angels. I think that the point is that He is far superior to the angels.
It is scriptural that Jesus INHERITED a NEW name when his God exalted him to His right hand. It is scriptural that, as of now, only Jesus knows this name (and presumably his God who gave it to him). Yet he was already known to be the Son of God while he was on the earth. Therefore, that can't possibly be the name he inherited when his God raised him from the dead.Anyway, the wording clearly speaks of someone who returned to a HIGHER position and name than when he left. Of course, you won't allow yourself to see that, so there's no need discussing that point any further for now.
Mike,
Inheriting a name happens at the time of birth. When did your son inherit your last name? When he was born?? He is 'given' an new name which we don't know but 'given' doesn't necessarily mean inherit. When did you inherit your eye color? at conception??Kathi,
Your posts do not add up to the scripture. When was Simon given the name “Cephas” by Jesus? At his conception?
When was Abram given the name Abraham by God? At his birth? Read the context: Jesus provided purification for sins, then sat down at God's right hand, and BECAME as much superior to the angels as the name he INHERITED (not “was given”) is superior to theirs. It is clear that he inherited this new name AFTER he provided purification for sins.
Remember that Jesus BECAME worthy to take the scroll from the hand of The Most High God BECAUSE he bought men for his God with his own blood.
Kathi, your President analogy doesn't work. Try swapping out “President named Obama” with “God named Jehovah”, and see if it still works for you. But even worse than that, you actually said: Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.
If that statement, which would call for Jesus being the Son of the unity of Jesus and the Father (meaning Jesus is his own Son), TRULY makes sense to you, then I concur with Asana's words: Kathi has her mind set to bend any way possible to believe what she already believes.
And if that's the case, why should I bother?
Mike,
OK, a better way of saying this is:Obama is a member of the unity that he is the president in.
Jesus is a member of the unity that He is the Son in.
There ya go.
Quote Read the context: Jesus provided purification for sins, then sat down at God's right hand, and BECAME as much superior to the angels as the name he INHERITED (not “was given”) is superior to theirs. It is clear that he inherited this new name AFTER he provided purification for sins. He didn't become superior to the angels because of a new name He was given, that is not why He is superior to the angels.
The passage qualifies why He is superior to the angels and lists several things:
He was begotten by God. The angels were not.
His throne is for ever and ever. The angels do not have a throne.
He laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the works of His hands. The angels did not lay the foundation of the earth or spread out the heavens with their hands.
He is seated at the right hand of God. The angels are not seated at the right hand of God.And more…
Simon did not inherit the name Cephas but was given that name, same with Abraham. Otherwise show me where Jesus/God says you will 'inherit' a new name or something to the affect.The idea of 'inherit' is not there.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,08:27) BD, Quote Now I see by the way you right, how you interpret if I thought like you I could say you just proclaimed me “Lord Bodhitharta” LOL, I'm glad you realize that I do not see you as the Lord Jesus. Thanks for catching that. Is that the only punctuation error that I have made in this thread? I'll bet you can find others. Why don't you read it through from the beginning, carefully. If you do, you will see that I have said that the Father has authority over His Son. Apparently you missed that from what your comment demonstrates:
Quote
You won't give the Father Sovereign rights, do you know what Sovereign means?sovereign n. One that exercises supreme, permanent authority, especially in a nation or other governmental unit
So wouldn't this definition Make the Father Sovereign since you agree He has the greater Authority. even if everyone and everything was “God” would the Father have SUPREME AUTHORITY?
The thing about the sovereignty of the Father is that the way He is sovereign is through His Son, not by Himself.
http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/vod/AL32v1_WS
Bodhitharta, grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. Don't miss the message
Greater truth = greater peace You may think that you have peace now but wait till you meet the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You will experience true freedom to embrace Jesus as Lord!
Don't you mean the gods of Abraham? You have already stated that there were at least 2 gods 1 unbegotten and the other begotten so you definitely worship 2 godsQuote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,08:30) BD, Quote is there ever any condition in which you see the words “ONE”, “ONLY” and “I” as being literal? According to you anyone could claim even several more gods all being the highest you already have 2 in the number 1 spot. Context rules. Jesus is the only 'Begotten' God. There are no others.
Can you show a scripture that says begotten God?Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,08:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2012,14:40) You simply don't get many parts of the Bible Jesus declared that he was not the son of David but you don't understand. Mark 12:35-37
King James Version (KJV)
35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
This i what I mean you don't look thoroughly, Tell me who Anointed “The Father”?
BD,Quote You simply don't get many parts of the Bible Jesus declared that he was not the son of David but you don't understand. I can't believe that you actually think that Jesus is declaring that He is not the Son of David…really, is that what muslims in general believe?
Oh my goodness…you are confused here too, BD! Jesus was indirectly telling them, in Mark 12:35-37 that He was both the Son of David AND David's Lord who existed before David was born.
Now, He was asking his audience how He could be both the Son of David and His Lord…because He is the literal Son of God and therefore the only Begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father. The 'Father' meaning the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
He is the root AND the branch of Jesse.
Luke 1:32
“He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;Now can you comprehend that the 'He' and the 'Him' refer to Christ??
How about this:
Matt 1:1The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:Also, no one anointed the Father, no need for that. He anointed His Son, this would be reasonable for Him to do for His Son since the Father is in authority over Him and is sovereign through the Son.
BD, I'm trying to help you get past level 1 or are you at level 2?
So you believe that the Father is The Highest Authority, Correct?Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,11:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 28 2012,19:34) No he can't, because if “The Most High God” is a unity, then it would be that unity who has a Son named Jesus. If only ONE has a Son named Jesus, then only ONE is “The Most High God”.
Mike,
Follow along:
If the United States is a unity, then it would be that unity that has a President named Obama.Obama is a member of the unity that he is a president of.
Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.
Obama is the president within the unity called 'United States.'
Jesus is the Son within the unity called 'God Most High.'
Bt Obama is not called the United States of America. He iscalled the PRESIDENT now tell me how many presidents do we have?Obama is THE ONE and ONLY PRESIDENT of The United States
Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2012,20:58) He is seated at the right hand of God.
Do you mean he is seated at the right hand of ONE of our TWO Almighty Gods? Or do you mean Jesus is seated at the right hand of our “Unity God” – of which he is one member – meaning he is seated at HIS OWN right hand?Sorry, but your doctrine gets confusing for me. You say things like, “Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.” That would mean that Jesus is HIS OWN Son. How can you make such a claim and expect anyone to take you seriously?
I still love you, but Asana is right – you are willing to bend your mind in any nonsensical direction it takes to hold on to your obviously flawed doctrine.
I've got better things to do than to wade through imaginary nonsense.
Kathi, there is but ONE Most High God. That ONE has a Son named Jesus who is His Priest, Sacrificial Lamb, Servant, Anointed One, Mediator, Spokesman, and Prophet.
If Jesus does not have a Son named Jesus, then Jesus is not our ONE Most High God, but instead, the Son of our Most High God – just like the very scriptures you claim to believe teach us.
Take care,
mikeQuote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2012,00:02) Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,08:30) BD, Quote is there ever any condition in which you see the words “ONE”, “ONLY” and “I” as being literal? According to you anyone could claim even several more gods all being the highest you already have 2 in the number 1 spot. Context rules. Jesus is the only 'Begotten' God. There are no others.
Can you show a scripture that says begotten God?
BD,John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.Quote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2012,00:07) Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2012,11:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 28 2012,19:34) No he can't, because if “The Most High God” is a unity, then it would be that unity who has a Son named Jesus. If only ONE has a Son named Jesus, then only ONE is “The Most High God”.
Mike,
Follow along:
If the United States is a unity, then it would be that unity that has a President named Obama.Obama is a member of the unity that he is a president of.
Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.
Obama is the president within the unity called 'United States.'
Jesus is the Son within the unity called 'God Most High.'
Bt Obama is not called the United States of America. He iscalled the PRESIDENT now tell me how many presidents do we have?Obama is THE ONE and ONLY PRESIDENT of The United States
BD,
you asked:Quote Bt Obama is not called the United States of America. He is called the PRESIDENT now tell me how many presidents do we have? Obama is THE ONE and ONLY PRESIDENT of The United States
There is one and only one president within the unity called the United States.
There is one and only one vice-president within the unity called the United States.
There is one and only one Son within the unity called the Most High God.
There is one and only one Father within the unity called the Most High God.BD, I didn't realize that you live in the United States for some reason. What section?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 29 2012,18:42) Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2012,20:58) He is seated at the right hand of God.
Do you mean he is seated at the right hand of ONE of our TWO Almighty Gods? Or do you mean Jesus is seated at the right hand of our “Unity God” – of which he is one member – meaning he is seated at HIS OWN right hand?Sorry, but your doctrine gets confusing for me. You say things like, “Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.” That would mean that Jesus is HIS OWN Son. How can you make such a claim and expect anyone to take you seriously?
I still love you, but Asana is right – you are willing to bend your mind in any nonsensical direction it takes to hold on to your obviously flawed doctrine.
I've got better things to do than to wade through imaginary nonsense.
Kathi, there is but ONE Most High God. That ONE has a Son named Jesus who is His Priest, Sacrificial Lamb, Servant, Anointed One, Mediator, Spokesman, and Prophet.
If Jesus does not have a Son named Jesus, then Jesus is not our ONE Most High God, but instead, the Son of our Most High God – just like the very scriptures you claim to believe teach us.
Take care,
mike
Mike,
you asked:Quote Do you mean he is seated at the right hand of ONE of our TWO Almighty Gods? Or do you mean Jesus is seated at the right hand of our “Unity God” – of which he is one member – meaning he is seated at HIS OWN right hand? The Lord of lords is seated at the right hand of the God of gods. They reign together on one throne.
Quote Sorry, but your doctrine gets confusing for me. You say things like, “Jesus is a member of the unity that He is a son of.” That would mean that Jesus is HIS OWN Son. How can you make such a claim and expect anyone to take you seriously? I changed that for you, did you miss it? Here it is a little clearer:
Jesus is a member of the unity that He is the Son in.
Obama is a member (citizen) of the unity that he is the president in.
Can you understand this?
Mike,
You said:Quote I still love you, but Asana is right – you are willing to bend your mind in any nonsensical direction it takes to hold on to your obviously flawed doctrine. I love you too!
Did you realise that Asana does not believe that Jesus is the Son of David?
Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of David?Quote (bodhitharta @ June 28 2012,14:40) You simply don't get many parts of the Bible Jesus declared that he was not the son of David but you don't understand. Mark 12:35-37
King James Version (KJV)
35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
This i what I mean you don't look thoroughly, Tell me who Anointed “The Father”?
Bump for Mike.Mike do you see that Asana is saying that Jesus is not the Son of David in this bumped post?
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