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Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 05 2012,19:40) So the inheritance is eternal life? Didn't Jesus have eternal life already? If Jesus inherited internal life how could he then be God?
Good point, Asana. We are co-heirs of God along with Christ. Jesus was the first among many brothers.In other words, whatever it is that WE will inherit as heirs, Jesus also INHERITED these things first. Things such as eternal life. Paul says that since he died and was raised from the dead, he can no longer die again, for death NO LONGER has mastery over him.
One couldn't say these things about God Almighty.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2012,07:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 05 2012,19:40) So the inheritance is eternal life? Didn't Jesus have eternal life already? If Jesus inherited internal life how could he then be God?
Good point, Asana. We are co-heirs of God along with Christ. Jesus was the first among many brothers.In other words, whatever it is that WE will inherit as heirs, Jesus also INHERITED these things first. Things such as eternal life. Paul says that since he died and was raised from the dead, he can no longer die again, for death NO LONGER has mastery over him.
One couldn't say these things about God Almighty.
Exactly because death never had Mastery over God Almighty for He created them both.BD,
Correction, death only had mastery over Jesus because He made it possible by emptying Himself and becoming man and laying down His life, allowing death to have mastery. Before that He could not have died. Death had mastery because it was allowed to by Jesus.
God the Father did not empty Himself and lay down His life for mankind. The Father did not die for us, only Jesus, the only begotten God died for us. He was obviously more than a man. He was 100% 'only begotten God' and 100% man at the time His flesh died.
Mike,
Please stop posting in this thread or I will just have to add another thread here in the debate section to discuss things with BD where you were never invited to. Invited guests should leave when asked to and I have asked you to leave this thread several posts ago, Mike.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 08 2012,09:06) Mike,
Please stop posting in this thread or I will just have to add another thread here in the debate section to discuss things with BD where you were never invited to. Invited guests should leave when asked to and I have asked you to leave this thread several posts ago, Mike.
If you want to make another thread to debate me one on one you should do that but it isn't fair for you to decide who should leave a debate in which all 3 of our names have been included that would be like me asking you to leave this debate to me and mike it's just not right.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 08 2012,09:02) BD, Correction, death only had mastery over Jesus because He made it possible by emptying Himself and becoming man and laying down His life, allowing death to have mastery. Before that He could not have died. Death had mastery because it was allowed to by Jesus.
God the Father did not empty Himself and lay down His life for mankind. The Father did not die for us, only Jesus, the only begotten God died for us. He was obviously more than a man. He was 100% 'only begotten God' and 100% man at the time His flesh died.
KathiI understand that you have your own theology but the scriptures never say that Jesus was eternal, what's more is if Jesus is eternal he cannot lay down his life he would only be able to pretend to lay down his life, don't you understand that if there is no possibility of actual death then there is no sacrifice?
I really don't understand why you don't get it. When Abraham was going to sacrifice his son do you not understand that God knew Abraham had faith because the death would be irrevocable his son would not be rising from the dead he would just be dead until judgement day. Jesus was grieved and afraid because he knew that death was permanent he needed faith to believe that God would save/redeem him from the grave. If Jesus was God he would KNOW death was not a problem at all for him he would not cry “Father take this cup from me” It was not the will of Jesus to die for you/us where do you get that from? he clearly said “NOT MY WILL”
Well BD I think that I can kick someone out of the thread. I did make the thread and invited you and him to the thread and not the other way around so it is my thread. I believe that I have some control here especially when I'm being belittled and criticized over and over by someone that I invited. If I invited a couple of people over to my house and they criticized and belittled me and my beliefs almost daily, I can assure you that no one would blame me for kicking them out of my house. I doubt that you would allow someone like that to stay if you were in my shoes.
We will see if he is considerate enough to stop posting or if I have to start a new thread to keep him from posting…one way or the other
I am expecting poor character though, unfortunately.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 08 2012,15:41) Well BD I think that I can kick someone out of the thread. I did make the thread and invited you and him to the thread and not the other way around so it is my thread. I believe that I have some control here especially when I'm being belittled and criticized over and over by someone that I invited. If I invited a couple of people over to my house and they criticized and belittled me and my beliefs almost daily, I can assure you that no one would blame me for kicking them out of my house. I doubt that you would allow someone like that to stay if you were in my shoes. We will see if he is considerate enough to stop posting or if I have to start a new thread to keep him from posting…one way or the other
I am expecting poor character though, unfortunately.
Hi Kathi,I guess my point was you invited us to a debate which by nature can get heated and even insulting, If you are in the right then you should take even a higher approach and “Bless those who Curse you”
Luke 6:28
bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
Now the reason for this is you may not be judging rightly because vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord and He says:
Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”So do not judge lest ye be judged.
Everyone believes their position is the correct one until they are convicted and convinced through our many debates and discussions if we stay true to being honest and sincere anyone of us can suddenly have an insight and understanding that can alter our lives for the better we cannot like politician remain in a certain party just because we call ourselves one thing or another we should be better than that we are seeking the Favor of GOD ALMIGHTY and so we must submit ourselves entirely to GOD and GODLINESS.
God Bless You.
Ok BD, that's all nice and such but there are times to go away from the stone throwers. Jesus did this also. It's not my time to die.
I am not judging, just distancing myself.Anyway, how would you know that an eternal son couldn't become flesh?
You said that scriptures don't say that the Son is eternal. He is called YHWH in places which means self-existent. He is called the First and the Last which means eternal. He claims to be the I AM which means eternal. He existed in the beginning before creation which was during eternity. He has the exact representation of God's nature which is eternal. If He wasn't always eternal, the Father was not the Father at one point and the Father did not have a radiant glory at one point.
So, can you show me when the Father became the Father of His Son in a scripture in the Bible? I'm talking about the Son that was the Root of Jesse, not the branch of Jesse.
God bless you too.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,16:02) Correction, death only had mastery over Jesus because He made it possible by emptying Himself and becoming man and laying down His life, allowing death to have mastery.
Scripture doesn't say such a thing, Kathi. You have added that to the scriptural teachings.Are you saying that it is possible for God the Father to empty Himself to the point He could be killed by human beings?
Also, since Paul says Jesus cannot die again, are you implying that it would now be impossible for Jesus to empty himself at a later time?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 07 2012,22:28) If you want to make another thread to debate me one on one you should do that but it isn't fair for you to decide who should leave a debate in which all 3 of our names have been included……….
Agreed.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,22:41) Well BD I think that I can kick someone out of the thread. I did make the thread and invited you and him to the thread and not the other way around so it is my thread.
Well, you are wrong to think that, Kathi. Similarly, jammin cannot just decide to kick certain people out of the “Word” thread he started. Nor can I kick certain people out of the many threads I've started here.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,22:41) We will see if he is considerate enough to stop posting or if I have to start a new thread to keep him from posting…one way or the other. I am expecting poor character though, unfortunately.
Why would you assume I would stand by and allow words like these to go unanswered, Kathi?And as of now, the decision made for personal debates is:
No one not named as a member of the discussion is allowed to post on that thread……………….. UNLESS the invited members “bring them into the thread” by speaking derogatorily about them or misrepresenting their beliefs, etc.
In other words, no matter what the thread is, if you are going to talk trash about me in it, I am allowed to enter that thread and defend myself.
And I MIGHT have walked away from this thread, if not for your words that I bolded above.
It seems to me that not only are you unwilling to confront and repent of your earlier sin, despite the fact that Asana and I both pointed it out to you, but you are now even adding sin upon sin with comments such as this.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 08 2012,20:57) Ok BD, that's all nice and such but there are times to go away from the stone throwers. Jesus did this also.
Jesus walked away. He didn't command the stone-throwers to leave him.So walk away and start another thread if you want to. But if you mention me in a derogatory way in that other thread, I will be there defending myself.
OR………………………………..
You could just ASK ME NICELY to leave this discussion to you and Asana. I would most certainly consider that request.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 08 2012,20:57) He is called YHWH in places which means self-existent.
Exodus 7:17
This is what YHWH says: “By this you will know that I am YHWH: With the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water of the Nile, and it will be changed into blood.”Kathi, had this verse been about JESUS striking the water with his staff, it would instantly become a “Jesus is YHWH” proof text for you.
Yet because the holder of the staff is Moses, and not JESUS, you are able to understand that Moses is not YHWH Himself, despite the oddly worded statement.
This is the bias the rest of us can see in your interpretations of scripture, Kathi. Many times the REPRESENTATIVES OF YHWH were called “YHWH” in scripture. Does it mean that ALL of these representatives are “self-existent”? Or does it only mean such in the case of Jesus………… because in the case of Jesus you WANT it to mean such?
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 09 2012,13:57) Ok BD, that's all nice and such but there are times to go away from the stone throwers. Jesus did this also. It's not my time to die. I am not judging, just distancing myself.Anyway, how would you know that an eternal son couldn't become flesh?
You said that scriptures don't say that the Son is eternal. He is called YHWH in places which means self-existent. He is called the First and the Last which means eternal. He claims to be the I AM which means eternal. He existed in the beginning before creation which was during eternity. He has the exact representation of God's nature which is eternal. If He wasn't always eternal, the Father was not the Father at one point and the Father did not have a radiant glory at one point.
So, can you show me when the Father became the Father of His Son in a scripture in the Bible? I'm talking about the Son that was the Root of Jesse, not the branch of Jesse.
God bless you too.
The term God the Father is a Metaphor if it isn't then HE is the literal Father of all.This is why in Islam the usage of such language has been cleansed God is Unique there is none like HIM. HE is not begotten nor does HE Beget. Language ca be used very poetically to pint out certain things we should not ignore the reality of analogies and metaphors.
This is why you will only consider Jesus a literal son after the bible has God calling people and angels sons, hundreds and even thousands of years before Jesus appeared.
BD,
I will continue our discussion over here:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….y369356Thanks
Kathi,
What's your take on Exodus 7:17? After all, Jehovah told Moses he would be God to Pharaoh, and Aaron would be his very own prophet, right?
And Paul later says that the Israelites were baptized into Moses in the wilderness, right?
And Moses did many signs and wonders just like Jesus did, right?
And when Paul says the Rock in the wilderness was Christ, he could very well have been talking about Moses, since Moses was one of the many christs of God, right?
Why do none of these things make Moses a part of the Godhead, or equal to Jehovah……………. but if similar things are said about Jesus, those things DO make him “Jehovah Jr”, or equal to his own God?
Anyway, please explain 7:17 for me. Tell me what it means that MOSES was the one holding the staff and striking the water, but Jehovah said HE was holding the staff and striking the water.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,04:11) Kathi, What's your take on Exodus 7:17? After all, Jehovah told Moses he would be God to Pharaoh, and Aaron would be his very own prophet, right?
And Paul later says that the Israelites were baptized into Moses in the wilderness, right?
And Moses did many signs and wonders just like Jesus did, right?
And when Paul says the Rock in the wilderness was Christ, he could very well have been talking about Moses, since Moses was one of the many christs of God, right?
Why do none of these things make Moses a part of the Godhead, or equal to Jehovah……………. but if similar things are said about Jesus, those things DO make him “Jehovah Jr”, or equal to his own God?
Anyway, please explain 7:17 for me. Tell me what it means that MOSES was the one holding the staff and striking the water, but Jehovah said HE was holding the staff and striking the water.
I must ask the same questions.
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