- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2012,09:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 27 2012,12:02) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,00:31) BD,
Jesus is the only 'like begets like' literal son, He is the only begotten son who always existed with the exact nature of His Father, a nature which eternal power and divinity are attributes.
KathiAre there other begotten sons who if they have enough faith can do whatever Jesus can do?
BD,
No. For one thing no one can open the seals of the scroll but Jesus. That wasn't only about faith though, that was about being the perfect kinsman redeemer. No man could pay the price to redeem mankind. No man can pay the price to redeem even one man let alone mankind except the only begotten God incarnate. He had to become man to be a 'kinsman' redeemer to open the seals.There are many things that those in Christ can do by faith in Christ, through Christ who strengthens them. They can't redeem mankind though like Christ did.
Rev 5
1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
John 14:12King James Version (KJV)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Whty is Jesus saying that they can and even greater things can anyone actually do anything greater than God?
BD,
Jesus was lowered to a position that was lower than the angels, like man is. He came to be an example to men as a fellow man. As a man, He did many of His Father's works for about 3 1/2 years. He healed the sick, raised the dead, dried up a fig tree, changed water into wine, freed people from demons, and more. Now, because Jesus came as a man, died as a man, and returned to the Father, He can empower men to do those types of works and bigger works.You keep forgetting that He emptied Himself to become like men.
Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,15:53) Do you really think that belittling others pleases God?
I believe God is pleased when I put you on the hot seat, and make you stand and defend the twistings of scripture that you preach.In all those words you wrote to Asana, not once did you say, “YES BD, Jesus IS a servant of God”. I find that odd, since it is the most DIRECT and TRUTHFUL answer to his simple question. I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed.
Btw, you should learn to attack the words written, Kathi, not the person who wrote them. Personal attacks are the last resort of those who are losing the scriptural battle. We've all seen it a thousand times on this site.
Wow, you are very confused…get some help, stop the pattern that you learned as a child from your brothers. There is healing available for you, Mike.Quote I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed. Thank you for admitting that you attack the most ridiculous things, not only what I believe. How petty!! Geesh, get some help for those wounds of yours, why hold on to them so tightly and continue the pattern of belittling that hurt you?
When you continue more belittling, I will continue to show you the destructive behavior from you to myself and or others and then how you try to twist that as belittling to you when I am only calling you out on it.
If you don't like to be called out on how you belittle others personally, then stop the destructive pattern. That is NOT from God, you are even confused about that.
Mike,
Quote It seems that Asana and I are in scriptural agreement more often than you and I are – and you and I both claim to be Christians while he's a Muslim. How can that be? There can be several reasons for that. What exactly is the reason, I can only guess…God knows and we need to ask Him for wisdom.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,16:17) So, Mike, can you say Yeshua is the LORD JEHOVAH?
Sorry Kathi,My God is named Jehovah. His Son is named Jesus – not Jehovah the second, or Jehovah Jr.
And what was His name before the incarnation?Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 30 2012,09:46) BD,
Jesus was lowered to a position that was lower than the angels, like man is. He came to be an example to men as a fellow man. As a man, He did many of His Father's works for about 3 1/2 years. He healed the sick, raised the dead, dried up a fig tree, changed water into wine, freed people from demons, and more. Now, because Jesus came as a man, died as a man, and returned to the Father, He can empower men to do those types of works and bigger works.You keep forgetting that He emptied Himself to become like men.
Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
So these other begotten sons can also do what Jesus did?So I sak you again although the scripture calls other men gegotten sons of God is that true?
BD,
you ask:Quote So these other begotten sons can also do what Jesus did? Now, because Jesus came as a man, died as a man, and returned to the Father, He can empower men who are considered begotten sons (begotten because they have been born again by the Spirit) to do those types of works Jesus did while He walked the earth and even bigger works than those.
Quote So I ask you again although the scripture calls other men begotten sons of God is that true? Is your question whether or not it is true that there are other men besides Jesus who are called 'begotten sons of God?'
If that is your question, yes, other men are called begotten sons of God because of a rebirth or regeneration, not by initial birth as Jesus who is the 'only begotten God/Son' by nature.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 30 2012,14:44) BD,
you ask:Quote So these other begotten sons can also do what Jesus did? Now, because Jesus came as a man, died as a man, and returned to the Father, He can empower men who are considered begotten sons (begotten because they have been born again by the Spirit) to do those types of works Jesus did while He walked the earth and even bigger works than those.
Quote So I ask you again although the scripture calls other men begotten sons of God is that true? Is your question whether or not it is true that there are other men besides Jesus who are called 'begotten sons of God?'
If that is your question, yes, other men are called begotten sons of God because of a rebirth or regeneration, not by initial birth as Jesus who is the 'only begotten God/Son' by nature.
Do the scriptures tell us there is a difference in the begotten sons of God?Also are these begotten sons also begotten gods?
BD,
you asked:Quote
Do the scriptures tell us there is a difference in the begotten sons of God?
Also are these begotten sons also begotten gods?Jesus is the only begotten Son/only begotten God, not regenerated to be a son but a son by nature, and the others that are regenerated/born again begotten sons, are many in number are are not begotten Gods.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 01 2012,05:01) BD,
you asked:Quote
Do the scriptures tell us there is a difference in the begotten sons of God?
Also are these begotten sons also begotten gods?Jesus is the only begotten Son/only begotten God, not regenerated to be a son but a son by nature, and the others that are regenerated/born again begotten sons, are many in number are are not begotten Gods.
So these begotten sons are Co-Heirs with Jesus Christ?Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2012,17:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,16:17) So, Mike, can you say Yeshua is the LORD JEHOVAH?
Sorry Kathi,My God is named Jehovah. His Son is named Jesus – not Jehovah the second, or Jehovah Jr.
And what was His name before the incarnation?
I have no scriptural reason to think he wasn't named “Jesus” from the time his God and our God brought him into existence.I used to go round and round with JA about this point, because he, like many people, just assume that Jesus had a different name before being made in the likeness of a human being.
No one has ever been able to show me a scripture that supports this claim, though.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2012,16:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,15:53) Do you really think that belittling others pleases God?
I believe God is pleased when I put you on the hot seat, and make you stand and defend the twistings of scripture that you preach.In all those words you wrote to Asana, not once did you say, “YES BD, Jesus IS a servant of God”. I find that odd, since it is the most DIRECT and TRUTHFUL answer to his simple question. I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed.
Btw, you should learn to attack the words written, Kathi, not the person who wrote them. Personal attacks are the last resort of those who are losing the scriptural battle. We've all seen it a thousand times on this site.
Wow, you are very confused…get some help, stop the pattern that you learned as a child from your brothers. There is healing available for you, Mike.Quote I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed. Thank you for admitting that you attack the most ridiculous things, not only what I believe. How petty!! Geesh, get some help for those wounds of yours, why hold on to them so tightly and continue the pattern of belittling that hurt you?
When you continue more belittling, I will continue to show you the destructive behavior from you to myself and or others and then how you try to twist that as belittling to you when I am only calling you out on it.
If you don't like to be called out on how you belittle others personally, then stop the destructive pattern. That is NOT from God, you are even confused about that.
Kathi,That was one of the nastiest posts anyone has ever made to me on this site………….. and JA made some pretty bad ones.
What if you had confided in me that your dad sexually abused you as a child? Do you think it would be okay for me to use that against you anytime I was losing a scriptural argument?
Would it be cool with you if I said things like, “Kathi, you are just carrying on the behavior you aquired as a child as a result of your father's sexual abuse. You need to seek help and not take it out on me!” Would that be okay with you if I said things like that, Kathi? Would you enjoy people bringing up bad occurances in your past life just because they were losing a scriptural point against you?
Your attempts to slam me have been laughed off. It seems you've shown YOURSELF to be the petty one here.
Anyway, you STILL haven't addressed the entire reason for this nasty discussion, and I really want you to.
Kathi, is Jesus a SERVANT of his God, according to scripture? YES or NO?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2012,19:04) Why is Jesus saying that they can and even greater things can anyone actually do anything greater than God?
Jesus never said the disciples would be able to do greater things THAN HE CAN DO. He only said they'd be able to do greater things THAN THE THINGS THEY'D SEEN HIM DO.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 30 2012,14:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2012,17:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,16:17) So, Mike, can you say Yeshua is the LORD JEHOVAH?
Sorry Kathi,My God is named Jehovah. His Son is named Jesus – not Jehovah the second, or Jehovah Jr.
And what was His name before the incarnation?
I have no scriptural reason to think he wasn't named “Jesus” from the time his God and our God brought him into existence.I used to go round and round with JA about this point, because he, like many people, just assume that Jesus had a different name before being made in the likeness of a human being.
No one has ever been able to show me a scripture that supports this claim, though.
Mike,
Do you have any scriptural reason that He was named Jesus before the incarnation?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 30 2012,14:48) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2012,16:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,15:53) Do you really think that belittling others pleases God?
I believe God is pleased when I put you on the hot seat, and make you stand and defend the twistings of scripture that you preach.In all those words you wrote to Asana, not once did you say, “YES BD, Jesus IS a servant of God”. I find that odd, since it is the most DIRECT and TRUTHFUL answer to his simple question. I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed.
Btw, you should learn to attack the words written, Kathi, not the person who wrote them. Personal attacks are the last resort of those who are losing the scriptural battle. We've all seen it a thousand times on this site.
Wow, you are very confused…get some help, stop the pattern that you learned as a child from your brothers. There is healing available for you, Mike.Quote I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed. Thank you for admitting that you attack the most ridiculous things, not only what I believe. How petty!! Geesh, get some help for those wounds of yours, why hold on to them so tightly and continue the pattern of belittling that hurt you?
When you continue more belittling, I will continue to show you the destructive behavior from you to myself and or others and then how you try to twist that as belittling to you when I am only calling you out on it.
If you don't like to be called out on how you belittle others personally, then stop the destructive pattern. That is NOT from God, you are even confused about that.
Kathi,That was one of the nastiest posts anyone has ever made to me on this site………….. and JA made some pretty bad ones.
What if you had confided in me that your dad sexually abused you as a child? Do you think it would be okay for me to use that against you anytime I was losing a scriptural argument?
Would it be cool with you if I said things like, “Kathi, you are just carrying on the behavior you aquired as a child as a result of your father's sexual abuse. You need to seek help and not take it out on me!” Would that be okay with you if I said things like that, Kathi? Would you enjoy people bringing up bad occurances in your past life just because they were losing a scriptural point against you?
Your attempts to slam me have been laughed off. It seems you've shown YOURSELF to be the petty one here.
Anyway, you STILL haven't addressed the entire reason for this nasty discussion, and I really want you to.
Kathi, is Jesus a SERVANT of his God, according to scripture? YES or NO?
Mike,
You didn't mention that in 'confidence' you mentioned that on the open forum. I think you need healing, not because it had anything to do with winning or losing an argument. What an imagination you have.Jesus was the Son of God, and of course He served His Father…He was perfect after all.
If you had to choose which He was and you could only choose one, is He the Son of God or the servant of God? Which identifies Him best in His relation to His Father. Does Jesus call the Father his 'master' ever, or mainly His 'Father'??
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2012,06:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 28 2012,19:04) Why is Jesus saying that they can and even greater things can anyone actually do anything greater than God?
Jesus never said the disciples would be able to do greater things THAN HE CAN DO. He only said they'd be able to do greater things THAN THE THINGS THEY'D SEEN HIM DO.
John 14:12 (KJ)12 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that believeth in Me, the works that I do he shall do also; and greater works than these shall he do, because I go unto My Father.
Perhaps you are speaking of a different translation, however even if it said only the things they have seen him do it would cover pretty much everything including creating things such as bread and fish, raising people from the dead and killing with touch such as the fig tree.
My point is not to put his disciples on par with him but to pint out that “God” certainly could not make such a statement ecause we could never do anything greater than what we have seen God do which is to cause all existence.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 01 2012,16:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 30 2012,14:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2012,17:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,16:17) So, Mike, can you say Yeshua is the LORD JEHOVAH?
Sorry Kathi,My God is named Jehovah. His Son is named Jesus – not Jehovah the second, or Jehovah Jr.
And what was His name before the incarnation?
I have no scriptural reason to think he wasn't named “Jesus” from the time his God and our God brought him into existence.I used to go round and round with JA about this point, because he, like many people, just assume that Jesus had a different name before being made in the likeness of a human being.
No one has ever been able to show me a scripture that supports this claim, though.
Mike,
Do you have any scriptural reason that He was named Jesus before the incarnation?
So these begotten sons are Co-Heirs with Jesus Christ?Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 01 2012,16:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 30 2012,14:48) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 29 2012,16:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2012,17:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 28 2012,15:53) Do you really think that belittling others pleases God?
I believe God is pleased when I put you on the hot seat, and make you stand and defend the twistings of scripture that you preach.In all those words you wrote to Asana, not once did you say, “YES BD, Jesus IS a servant of God”. I find that odd, since it is the most DIRECT and TRUTHFUL answer to his simple question. I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed.
Btw, you should learn to attack the words written, Kathi, not the person who wrote them. Personal attacks are the last resort of those who are losing the scriptural battle. We've all seen it a thousand times on this site.
Wow, you are very confused…get some help, stop the pattern that you learned as a child from your brothers. There is healing available for you, Mike.Quote I was merely pointing out the fact that you didn't actually answer his question, when a simple “YES” would have sufficed. Thank you for admitting that you attack the most ridiculous things, not only what I believe. How petty!! Geesh, get some help for those wounds of yours, why hold on to them so tightly and continue the pattern of belittling that hurt you?
When you continue more belittling, I will continue to show you the destructive behavior from you to myself and or others and then how you try to twist that as belittling to you when I am only calling you out on it.
If you don't like to be called out on how you belittle others personally, then stop the destructive pattern. That is NOT from God, you are even confused about that.
Kathi,That was one of the nastiest posts anyone has ever made to me on this site………….. and JA made some pretty bad ones.
What if you had confided in me that your dad sexually abused you as a child? Do you think it would be okay for me to use that against you anytime I was losing a scriptural argument?
Would it be cool with you if I said things like, “Kathi, you are just carrying on the behavior you aquired as a child as a result of your father's sexual abuse. You need to seek help and not take it out on me!” Would that be okay with you if I said things like that, Kathi? Would you enjoy people bringing up bad occurances in your past life just because they were losing a scriptural point against you?
Your attempts to slam me have been laughed off. It seems you've shown YOURSELF to be the petty one here.
Anyway, you STILL haven't addressed the entire reason for this nasty discussion, and I really want you to.
Kathi, is Jesus a SERVANT of his God, according to scripture? YES or NO?
Mike,
You didn't mention that in 'confidence' you mentioned that on the open forum. I think you need healing, not because it had anything to do with winning or losing an argument. What an imagination you have.Jesus was the Son of God, and of course He served His Father…He was perfect after all.
If you had to choose which He was and you could only choose one, is He the Son of God or the servant of God? Which identifies Him best in His relation to His Father. Does Jesus call the Father his 'master' ever, or mainly His 'Father'??
KhiMike is right your tactics are very ugly, you have attacked Mike with information he has shared out of love and getting to know others here and that is foul. You also attacked him “because he agrees with “THE” Muslim.
Why is it you believe that attacking the person gives your argument stability? It doesn't!
Let's assume me and Mike were both completely medically insane people do you believe you would need to advertise that for someone to believe you are correct? I don't because if you are using the scriptures why would it matter if Mike needed healing or whatever garbage you infuse to make people feel you have the more rational approach.
The fact is most of your belief is not Scriptural nd what'smore it goes against scripture and the Shema of Israel that the LORD GOD is ONE LORD you have ignored the scripture and made up a story about two Almighty Gods.
Your position needs the healing.
BD,
By denying that Mike belittles me makes you part of the problem. Btw, does the term Muslim offend you, are you not a Muslim?A key element in this area of verbal abuse will no doubt be confrontation of the abuser. It's important for you to realize that confrontation is a biblical principle. Jesus taught about this in Matthew 18:15-20. I would recommend that you seek help from a pastor or counselor. But I would also recommend that you gather godly men and women together who can lovingly confront the person who is verbally abusing you. Their goal should be to break through his denial and lovingly restore him with a spirit of gentleness (Galatians 6:1).
But whether you confront the abuser or not, I do recommend that you seek out others who can encourage you and support you. If the abuser is willing to confront his sin and get help, that is good. But even if he will not, your hope is in the Lord and in those who should surround you and encourage you.
Also your denial that what I have shown you is scriptural does not help you or anyone.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 02 2012,11:25) BD,
By denying that Mike belittles me makes you part of the problem. Btw, does the term Muslim offend you, are you not a Muslim?A key element in this area of verbal abuse will no doubt be confrontation of the abuser. It's important for you to realize that confrontation is a biblical principle. Jesus taught about this in Matthew 18:15-20. I would recommend that you seek help from a pastor or counselor. But I would also recommend that you gather godly men and women together who can lovingly confront the person who is verbally abusing you. Their goal should be to break through his denial and lovingly restore him with a spirit of gentleness (Galatians 6:1).
But whether you confront the abuser or not, I do recommend that you seek out others who can encourage you and support you. If the abuser is willing to confront his sin and get help, that is good. But even if he will not, your hope is in the Lord and in those who should surround you and encourage you.
Also your denial that what I have shown you is scriptural does not help you or anyone.
KathiYou seem to continue to miss the point first of all I didn't say calling me a Muslim was offensive at all I said you were using that fact as a ploy to make Mike appear less Christian and perhaps you don't recognize what you were doing so I just pointed it out.
I'm not saying that we can't argue and attack the positions of the other person I just think there is a difference between attacking a position and attacking a person.
I love you and the fact that you love God and study the word of God but I think some of your arguments are absolutely ridiculous and even offensive your arguments don't make much sense.
I only stated the last paragraph to highlight how you can attack an argument and still love a person
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
