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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2012,05:25) Are you a false teacher, Pierre?
Mike b.If you yourself dont know the teaching of the jws, then why are you putting yourself as judge and jury,between us and them? Even your knowledge of the scriptures is very basic.
You are not qualified: first, learn the scriptures,then learn the doctrine of the jws; then you can judge the two.
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2012,04:53) Pierre, I'm waiting for something unscriptural that the JWs teach. You call them “false teachers” – prove it.
Mike, I am beginning to think you are very similar to me.You know a lot.
But you also like to debate.
And, sometimes, for you, it doesn't even matter what you believe, but you will still debate a subject just because the other person is using either weak or fallacious argumentation.
The problem is, understandably, this confuses others.
It makes it seem as if you support JW's because you are wanting others to prove their beliefs false.
Quote Are you a false teacher, Pierre? –Mike.
Quote NO MIKE I AM NOT:ARE YOU ?? –Pierre.
This is unquestionably one of the reasons JW's believe they have “the truth” or represent Jesus' followers. No one anywhere seems to agree on anything. There are divisions inside of divisions. Catholics are broken to pieces. All religions seem to be. Of course, most JW's don't appreciate the study of history.
JW's know that Jesus said his followers would be “one,” united, a global brotherhood, or a worldwide “association of brothers.” They would be “one” in belief, and action, with the same goals and purpose.
Yet, 2 people can be speaking to a JW, and those 2 people can't agree on anything either. This only confirms in the mind of a JW that they are on the right track.
Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2012,20:23) Quote Are you a false teacher, Pierre? –Mike.
Quote NO MIKE I AM NOT:ARE YOU ?? –Pierre.
This is unquestionably one of the reasons JW's believe they have “the truth” or represent Jesus' followers. No one anywhere seems to agree on anything. There are divisions inside of divisions. Catholics are broken to pieces. All religions seem to be. Of course, most JW's don't appreciate the study of history.
JW's know that Jesus said his followers would be “one,” united, a global brotherhood, or a worldwide “association of brothers.” They would be “one” in belief, and action, with the same goals and purpose.
Yet, 2 people can be speaking to a JW, and those 2 people can't agree on anything either. This only confirms in the mind of a JW that they are on the right track.
Davidyou know make much sens and is in fact true,
but remember what Jesus said he did not bring peace but a sword and this of what you say is the sword ,then Jesus goes on and said ;
Mt 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
Mt 20:26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—
Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”this is the most difficult thing to do ;Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slaveJesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water( repentance and humility) and the Spirit.(love God and do his will )
this is also why Jesus says to become like children humble and ready to learn again the truth according to the spirit of God.
Quote Yet, 2 people can be speaking to a JW, and those 2 people can't agree on anything either. This only confirms in the mind of a JW that they are on the right track. this is true I know,it is also natural for man not to be alone ,but many join an religious organization as a place to socializing in a save environment ,so it is in selfishness the join not for the love of God ,and so that organization become a shelter of what
? not Godly people most hypocrites
go with the flow so to speak.lip service,?Pierre
Quote Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water( repentance and humility) and the Spirit.(love God and do his will ) Pierre, You have added bold above and that just isn't what it says or means. That is just your interpretation.
The 'born of water', speaks of the FLESH, a new born baby.
The 'Born of Spirit', speaks of receiving the Holy Spirit in you, being born again.Marlin
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 13 2012,22:41) Quote Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water( repentance and humility) and the Spirit.(love God and do his will ) Pierre, You have added bold above and that just isn't what it says or means. That is just your interpretation.
The 'born of water', speaks of the FLESH, a new born baby.
The 'Born of Spirit', speaks of receiving the Holy Spirit in you, being born again.Marlin
Marlincan really the reborn in the flesh solve the problem in the spirit ??
don't be like Nicodemus this is what he thought,we are born ones in the flesh this is done and so we die for our sins ,but Christ came to save us (our soul)the flesh his condemn ,and we have to become like children ,this bring us as a child not a reborn child ,
this is why I have ad my understanding water in scriptures stands for knowledge and spirit for what is of God put those two together and what do we have ? baptized (submerge you self in the knowledge of the spirit (the will of God)but do it in love for him .Pierre,
Quote Marlin can really the reborn in the flesh solve the problem in the spirit ??
don't be like Nicodemus this is what he thought,we are born ones in the flesh this is done and so we die for our sins ,but Christ came to save us (our soul)the flesh his condemn ,and we have to become like children ,this bring us as a child not a reborn child ,
this is why I have ad my understanding water in scriptures stands for knowledge and spirit for what is of God put those two together and what do we have ? baptized (submerge you self in the knowledge of the spirit (the will of God)but do it in love for him .You said correctly that was your understanding, I say that it is not scriptural.
Jesus said “unless you be born of the Spirit you will never enter into the Kingdom. YOU CAN NOT ENTER INTO, UNLESS YOU BE BORN OF THE SPIRIT NOW, BEFORE YOU DIE.
Peter by the Holy Ghost said, Repent and be baptized and then you shall receive the Holy Ghost…
Repent of unbelief and then you are baptized correctly in water , then and only then you can receive the Holy Ghost, IF you keep believing.ACTS 8:12 † But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
These believers were baptized with water after believing, but they didn't receive the Holy Ghost yet.
ACTS 8:14 † Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 † Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 † (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 † Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.So as you can see, it wasn't just understanding as you believe. They received the Spirit of God into them. They didn't receive it when they believed, it came some time later, after they believed. There is also scripture that shows that the Holy Ghost can come right away. It comes when God accepts your faith and not before. Most people quit to early and never receive the Holy Ghost, for one reason or another. In your case it is because of an incorrect teaching.
If you need or want more scripture that there really is a Holy Ghost and that it is available now for all who will come God's provided way. Just let me know, I would be glad to share.
If not, that is ok too.
God Bless
MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 14 2012,14:08) Pierre, Quote Marlin can really the reborn in the flesh solve the problem in the spirit ??
don't be like Nicodemus this is what he thought,we are born ones in the flesh this is done and so we die for our sins ,but Christ came to save us (our soul)the flesh his condemn ,and we have to become like children ,this bring us as a child not a reborn child ,
this is why I have ad my understanding water in scriptures stands for knowledge and spirit for what is of God put those two together and what do we have ? baptized (submerge you self in the knowledge of the spirit (the will of God)but do it in love for him .You said correctly that was your understanding, I say that it is not scriptural.
Jesus said “unless you be born of the Spirit you will never enter into the Kingdom. YOU CAN NOT ENTER INTO, UNLESS YOU BE BORN OF THE SPIRIT NOW, BEFORE YOU DIE.
Peter by the Holy Ghost said, Repent and be baptized and then you shall receive the Holy Ghost…
Repent of unbelief and then you are baptized correctly in water , then and only then you can receive the Holy Ghost, IF you keep believing.ACTS 8:12 † But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
These believers were baptized with water after believing, but they didn't receive the Holy Ghost yet.
ACTS 8:14 † Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 † Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 † (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 † Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.So as you can see, it wasn't just understanding as you believe. They received the Spirit of God into them. They didn't receive it when they believed, it came some time later, after they believed. There is also scripture that shows that the Holy Ghost can come right away. It comes when God accepts your faith and not before. Most people quit to early and never receive the Holy Ghost, for one reason or another. In your case it is because of an incorrect teaching.
If you need or want more scripture that there really is a Holy Ghost and that it is available now for all who will come God's provided way. Just let me know, I would be glad to share.
If not, that is ok too.
God Bless
Marlin
Marlinyou should read all our quotes again because you changing tracks ,
talking about reborn and or spirit is not the same thing ,
now if you just going to argue with me and not stay on one subject at the time what is it good for
Pierre
Hi Marlin,
You will not find any scriptural support for REBIRTH of water relating to natural birth.
Was that what you meant?We follow Jesus into the Jordan
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,08:00) Hi Marlin,
You will not find any scriptural support for REBIRTH of water relating to natural birth.
Was that what you meant?We follow Jesus into the Jordan
Hi Nick,Water baptism symbolizes 'death' not “birth”! …birth water is in the womb!
The two biblical births are:
1. in the womb. …………flesh birth ……born of physical water
2. The Word. ………Spiritual re-birth …..born of Spiritual waterGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgNick, I am not sure what you are saying here.
Quote Hi Marlin,
You will not find any scriptural support for REBIRTH of water relating to natural birth.
Was that what you meant?We follow Jesus into the Jordan
He is not saying that we are born again of water. He says we are born of water and we are. The water breaks and then we are born.
He is also saying we have to be born of the Spirit or we are none of His.Marlin
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 14 2012,09:28) Nick, I am not sure what you are saying here. Quote Hi Marlin,
You will not find any scriptural support for REBIRTH of water relating to natural birth.
Was that what you meant?We follow Jesus into the Jordan
He is not saying that we are born again of water. He says we are born of water and we are. The water breaks and then we are born.
He is also saying we have to be born of the Spirit or we are none of His.Marlin
Hi Marlin,Born of water precludes the rebellious Angels of becoming
part of God's kingdom unless they too are born here like we all were! (see Jude 1:4-13)Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Pierre, I gave you the option to respond or not.
we were talking about this quote here.
Quote Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water( repentance and humility) and the Spirit.(love God and do his will ) And I gave you quotes and I tell you the truth, Your natural birth, the water breaks and you are born and unless a person be born again of Spirit, he will not inherit the Kingdom of heaven.
So this is exactly the same, not different, YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN….
This is fact, weather you believe it or NOT.
God Bless you and yours.
MarlinQuote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,20:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2012,04:53) Pierre, I'm waiting for something unscriptural that the JWs teach. You call them “false teachers” – prove it.
Mike, I am beginning to think you are very similar to me.You know a lot.
But you also like to debate.
And, sometimes, for you, it doesn't even matter what you believe, but you will still debate a subject just because the other person is using either weak or fallacious argumentation.
The problem is, understandably, this confuses others.
It makes it seem as if you support JW's because you are wanting others to prove their beliefs false.
Hi David,I've sworn off these kinds of threads for now. I've realized that I'm never going to be able to show a racist that all people are created equal, no matter how good my arguments are.
And I'm not going to ever convince certain people here that JWs are just Christians, doing their best to follow the scriptures to the best of their understanding.
When people have it in their minds and hearts to hate those who are different from them, then that's what they're going to do, regardless of anything I say.
It is interesting to me that the majority of the people on this thread are not Trinitarians. Yet they have more hate for the JWs, who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, than they do for those who illogically try to make Jesus into the God he is the Son of – causing many sheep to worship someone other than God Almighty, to their own detriment.
I hear your point, but I didn't set out to confuse anyone. I have said MANY times on this site that the JW's understanding of scripture is closer to mine than any other denomination – despite the fact that I still interpret certain scriptures differently than they do.
David, you have heard the claims here. Over 50% of them have to do with hearsay, and don't even truly apply to the JWs. It was for the reason of forcing these bandwagoners to show proof of those untrue claims they were making that I came to this thread in the first place – not to debate.
I now pass the baton to you – whether you want it or not – because it's clear to me that no one here wants to scripturally show me why the JW doctrines they say are wrong really are wrong. They're content to slam for the sake of slamming, whether or not they are even speaking the truth of the matter. And I've got better things to do than to read hate.
peace,
mikeHi MB,
Commitment to a human religious leadership does divide loyalties.
We have one Lord who does not accept sharing that roleQuote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 14 2012,09:28) Nick, I am not sure what you are saying here. Quote Hi Marlin,
You will not find any scriptural support for REBIRTH of water relating to natural birth.
Was that what you meant?We follow Jesus into the Jordan
He is not saying that we are born again of water. He says we are born of water and we are. The water breaks and then we are born.
He is also saying we have to be born of the Spirit or we are none of His.Marlin
Hi M,
Natural birth has nothing to do with REBIRTH.Hi M,
If you think your idea is scriptural then show us from scripture where natural birth is shown in this context.Ed J,
Quote Hi Nick, Water baptism symbolizes 'death' not “birth”! …birth water is in the womb!
The two biblical births are:
1. in the womb. …………flesh birth ……born of physical water
2. The Word. ………Spiritual re-birth …..born of Spiritual waterThis is correct, and I would add that being reborn of the Spirit is an actual rebirth….. Just like Pentecost.
And it is a requirement of all of God's Chosen.
God Bless
MarlinHi Mike,
Isn't the claim of exclusivity worse than one saying that another's doctrinal belief is wrong?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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