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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 12 2012,17:22) More pointless slams, Pierre? Where is the interpretation of scripture that can't possibly be?
MikeQuote More pointless slams, Pierre? Where is the interpretation of scripture that can't possibly be? what you are running away,you tell others not to but you do ?
you defend their teachings and interpretations ,now you refuse to look in to it because you do not like it ,if you would you would tear them down but not now why,answer me this did you know that the JW have preached that 1975 was the end ;yes or no
and if you say yes why did it not come through??Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,09:25) Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,09:07) You would perhaps get a more accurate understanding there anyway. I mean, how can you even trust me to convey what they believe? I play mind games, remember? 
Bob
Hi David,Who said anything about “mind games”?
Do you consider an avoidance of speaking THE TRUTH to be “mind games”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Sorry, I see you just said: “games.” I didn't think you meant “chess” or “football.”“I just brought to the focus something else that you are playing games about!”–Ed
Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,14:34) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,09:25) Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,09:07) You would perhaps get a more accurate understanding there anyway. I mean, how can you even trust me to convey what they believe? I play mind games, remember? Bob
Hi David,Who said anything about “mind games”?
Do you consider an avoidance of speaking THE TRUTH to be “mind games”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Sorry, I see you just said: “games.” I didn't think you meant “chess” or “football.”“I just brought to the focus something else that you are playing games about!”–Ed
Hi David,Is the avoidance of telling the truth when asked, not playing games?
You made a comment, and I asked you what you meant by it?
Are you ashamed of what you meant by YOUR comment?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMikeB.
THe jw post is not to bring the God loving sheep down,but to open their eyes,to set them free and lead them back to the scriptures.
To set them free from the clutches of the watch tower.
This our job to do.We must lead them back to the Holy bible.You see that as an attack against the individual: this is not so.You are caught in the whirl wind of doctrines,going round and round,not going anywhere.
JWS TEACHINGS:
1. MICHAEL THE ARCH ANGEL IS JESUS: ERROR.
2. THE ELDERS ONLY HAVE THE DIRECT COMMUNICATION WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT,AND THEY INTERPRET THE SCRIPTURES AND EXPLAINED TO THE FLOCK THROUGH THE MAGAZINES; CALLED THE WATCH TOWER AND THE AWAKE. ERROR.FOR JESUS IS THE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN,NOT THE ELDERS.3. THE ELDERS ONLY WILL BE RESURRECTED IN SPIRIT.ERROR.
THE REST WILL BE RESRRECTED IN THE FLESH. ERROR.4. CHRIST IS RULING HIS KINGDOM(THE JWS) SINCE 1914. ERROR.
5. THE END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS HAS BEEN PREDICTED BY THE SPECIAL ELECT ELDERS IN FOUR OR FIVE TIMES,ALL ERRORS.
6. THEY SAY ITS OK, WE ARE ALL LEARNING,WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES. THIS IS A COP OUT. FOR THE APOSTLES CAN NOT MAKE MISTAKES,OR THE BIBLE WOULD BE FULL OF MISTAKES.7. THEY ARE THE TRUE WITNESSES,THE REST ARE FALSE, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE PREACHING THE GOSPEL,FROM DOOR TO DOOR,FROM STREET TO STREET DOING GODS WORK. THEY ARE THE BLESSED ONES.THIS IS THE OPPOSITE. FOR THEY ARE SPREADING LIES.CORRUPTING.
8. BROOKLIN NY.WILL BE NEW JERUSALEM.(IAM NOT TOO CLEAR ABOUT THIS)MAYBE SOMEONE COULD HELP ME OUT.
9. AT THE COMING OF CHRIST, NO ONE CAN SEE HIM,FOR HE IS SPIRIT.ERROR. THE SCRIPTURE SAYS,EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM,AND THEY ALSO WHICH PEARCED HIM.IS THAT ENOUGH?
wakeup.
3.
2.Oh, that's plenty Wakeup. Now, let's discuss them.
I agree with you on #1. I do not believe Michael is Jesus. BUT………….I know the scriptures they use to come to their understanding of this, and I can't say I fault them for it. I have not come to the same understanding, but only because I interpret a couple of scriptures differently than they do.
Would you like to discuss this point farther, knowing that we agree on it? Or would you like to move on to #2?
Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,03:59) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 11 2012,17:21) Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2012,16:07) Sorry, that last one was Acts 5:42. I guess it could also be this one you are referring to Ed (Acts 20:20,21):
English Standard Version (©2001)
how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house,New American Standard Bible (©1995)
how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house,King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
Hi david.What about all the past generations; way before the bible tract society was set up? what will happen to them?
Are they all lost,because they are not JW?2000yrs of Christians all lost; except the jehovah witnesses are saved. And they began I think in the 1917s.
How can you answer this?
Wakup, Hi.I am not here to defend JW's. But right now, based on what I've read from you, you seem to know the least about JW's of anyone on here. I understand your anger.
What they believe is that according to Scripture, and as prophesied by Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, there would be and was an apostasy, a falling away from true worship, which included the introduction of many teachings they consider false: the Trinity, the immortal soul, and a hundred other things.
They do think that all during this time, for those 2000 years, there were faithful Christians alive. (See the “weeds and the wheat” illustration Jesus gave)
But then, they believe, during the “last days” or “end of this world” that was foretold, there was to be a change. They believe there was to be a restoration to true worship.
And they like to point out Matthew 24:14, which says:
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
There are other parts to this sign, which they think makes this time special.
They view the 2000 years before, and most of history as an experiment to show that we cannot rule ourselves and that we need God's rulership, God's kingdom.
But, there would have to be a time when that came to an end, and leading up to that time, there are the “last days” of this world, and it is during this time, that they believe true worship was to be restored.
Just found this scripture:
(Micah 4:1-5) 4 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it peoples must stream. 2 And many nations will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 3 And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. 4 And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it]. 5 For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.Right or wrong, I think this is one of the main scriptures used to support this idea of a restoration of true worship in the “final part of the days.”
As for the people who lived during the previous 2000 years, there is going to be “a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.” The JW believe that people who were not given a chance to hear the good news that they are now preaching will be resurrected to life and be given that chance to decide which side they want to be on. I'm not sure of the populations, but since population grows exponentially, I'm guessing more people lived in the last century than the previous 19 centuries. Maybe I'm totally wrong.
They don't think that when a person dies, they go to heaven, but that they are unconscious, and, anther belief that differs with probably everyone else is that when a person dies, that death is the price that is paid for their sins and their sins are gone. The person who dies has been acquitted of his sins. So, those 2000 years of people would be resurrected and given a chance to choose. (Although, It's hard to understand how anyone could be resurrected, and then make a wrong choice.)
For the “2000yrs of Christians all lost” I think you should read Jesus illustration of the wheat and the weeds.
dave
Hi david.Thank you for your explanation.
You quoted micah 4. and the jws applied that to them.this is hijacking the scriptures to their own benefit.
Micah ch.4 is prophesying the kingdom will be istablished on top of the mountain. This is the coming kingdom of God,with CHrist ruling,and his saints.And all those old prophets will be there and abraham also.NO MORE TEARS,NO MORE PAIN, NO MORE WARS,THEY ALL WIL LIVE A HUNDRED YRS OLD.
SPEARS TURNED INTO PRUNING HOOKS,SWORDS INTO PLOWSHARES. THE KINGDOM OF MAN WILL BE NO MORE.
BECAUSE IT IS CONSUMED AT THE COMING.DAN.2:44.FIRST THE CONSUMING OF THE KINGDOMS OF MAN; THEN THE KINGDOM SET UP. NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND.
THE JWS CLUB IS DEFINITELY NOT THE KINGDOM AS PROCLAIMED. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR ERROR IN THE KINGDOM,FOR CHRIST IS RULING.
REGARDING THE PREACHING: THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE SPREADNG FALSE DOCTRINE,THERE ARE SO MANY OF THEM.
THE APOSTACY IS GETTING MORE SEVERE,AND THE bible tract society ARE ONLY ONE OF THEM.AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE; GO BACK TO THE WORD OF GOD.
AND EXAMINE YOUR SELVES,STAY WITH THE FLESH OF CHRIST AND STAY AWAY FROM BOOKS AND MAGAZINES.FOR THEY ALL CLAIM TO BE THE TRUTH.BUT THE SCRIPTURES CAN NOT BE BROKEN.PEACE.
wakeup.
Quote 3. THE ELDERS ONLY WILL BE RESURRECTED IN SPIRIT.ERROR. You can definitely remove this one from the list. They believe many women are of the “anointed” who will be resurrected to heaven. There are no women elders. So?
Quote 2. THE ELDERS ONLY HAVE THE DIRECT COMMUNICATION WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT This one is also incorrect. If you are saying that you have to be an elder to have the holy spirit? Maybe you are thinking of the “governing body” which is a small group of the “anointed” which is a small group of the elders. I'm not sure if that makes sense either. But I'm certain that they don't believe only elders have the holy spirit. I'm not sure any “communicate” with the holy spirit?
Quote 8. BROOKLIN NY.WILL BE NEW JERUSALEM.(IAM NOT TOO CLEAR ABOUT THIS)MAYBE SOMEONE COULD HELP ME OUT. I think you should probably just remove this one from the list as well. It does not help your cause to say things that have no truth to them. That just means that they will pick these weaker or made up things out and focus on them, as I am trying to help you to do. Take these ones out.
Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,16:45) Quote 8. BROOKLIN NY.WILL BE NEW JERUSALEM.(IAM NOT TOO CLEAR ABOUT THIS)MAYBE SOMEONE COULD HELP ME OUT. I think you should probably just remove this one from the list as well. It does not help your cause to say things that have no truth to them. That just means that they will pick these weaker or made up things out and focus on them, as I am trying to help you to do. Take these ones out.
Hi David,Is it not true that the JW's call the Brooklyn NY headquarters 'Beth-el”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd, they don't believe that Brooklyn will be the “new Jerusalem.”
Further, they are slowly getting out of Brooklyn. Haven't you noticed? They are moving.
Sorry, David.
No I haven't; where are they moving their headquarters to?
Please do answer my previous question concerning “Beth-el”.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgyes, bethel means house of God. But they call all of their branches (bethels) There is a canadian Bethel for example.
They have transferred printing for north America to the Canadian Bethel. They are moving their offices from Brooklyn out of the city. Can't remember where. It's north of the city I think? Maybe it's a secret underground location 🙂 Maybe they will disguise it as a cattle farm to blend in with the surroundings.
Hi David,
Thank you! …and I do appreciate your humor!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThey still grow their own beef. They will be in cattle country from what I understand. They will blend in.
H David,
Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,17:10) What humor? Quote (David @ quote #1) Maybe it's a secret underground location 🙂
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,17:11) They still grow their own beef. They will be in cattle country from what I understand. They will blend in.
Hi david.thank you for helping me out.
If that jerusalem thing is not accurate then I apologise.
like I said ; I was not too sure about that.I also know that the jws really thrive on criticts and prosecution,for this will only mean to them that they are truly Gods people. That they are not of babylon.
wakeup.
Okay Wakeup,
Did you want to discuss the scriptures the JWs use to come to their understanding that Jesus is Michael? There are in fact scriptures that make a fairly convincing argument of their case – if you want to discuss them. Like I said, I don't interpret it the same way, but the case is solid enough to make you think about it.
Or, should we move on to #4, since David took my fun out of discrediting #2, #3, and #8?
Which would you like to do, Wakeup? Discuss Michael? Or show me scripturally how 1914 can't possibly be the year Christ began to rule in heaven?
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