BEWARE OF THE LEAVEN,

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,04:09)

Ed, I am not who you think I am.

Hi David,

I will try to answer your question if you explain what you mean by this; deal?

“If” I understand your question correctly …'is an non-trinity believer a 1/2 a Christian?' …No.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 9:03 pm#277258

Participant

Sorry, no, I didn't mean are they “half Christian”. I meant, is that half “Christian, the half that either believes the trinity or doesn't believe the trinity, depending on what side you reside?

If the Bible says that the Christ is not divided and if Jesus said his followers would be “one,” and if to be a Christian is to be a follower of Christ, and if Christ said to do certain things and taught certain things, but half of us believe something entirely different than what Christ taught (trinity/non-trinity for example), is that half [either the trinitarian half or the other half] Christian?

And sorry, Ed, no deal. I've just come across this one too many times with you, where i ask a question that I feel is fundamentally central to what we are discussing, and then you put a condition on answering it. if you don't want to discuss this fairly or consistently, then i understand.

But, when you bring it up again, I will refer you back to this page, and we may continue from here.

February 11, 2012 at 9:06 pm#277259

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,06:41)

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,06:33)

But, you seem to think it is wrong for one group to label others who believe they are Christians as non-Christians.

Hi David,

I have only been trying to get you to fess-up to what the watchtower society teaches.

God bless
Ed J

Hi David,

Your statement appears to be conformation to the question…

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,02:45)

“Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?”

And here's how you have proven their teaching to us:

Quote (Adjusted David @ 1 quote)

But, you seem to think it is wrong for one group(JW's) to label others
who believe they are Christians(Non-JW's) as non-Christians.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 9:14 pm#277260

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,06:56)

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,04:09)

Ed, I am not who you think I am.

Hi David,

I will try to answer your question if you explain what you mean by this; deal?

“If” I understand your question correctly …'is an non-trinity believer a 1/2 a Christian?' …No.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

HI David,

Are you unwilling to tell me what you meant by this?
Either way I will still attempt to answer your question.

I just brought to the focus something else that you are playing games about!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 9:15 pm#277261

Participant

Hi David,

The trinitarian and non-trinitarian views are both correct.
It can be compared to the understanding of a Paradox.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 9:16 pm#277262

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 12 2012,11:24)

And THAT is EXACTLY what I've been asking you, Wakeup and Pierre to do, Ed.

If you have scriptural proof that the JWs are preaching AGAINST the written word of God, then show that proof.

Mike

you got it all upside down ;we are not talking about scriptures here ;

we talking about their teachings of their understanding and interpretation of the scriptures ;

all scriptures are basically the same that is not were Christ was going either wen he said to the ;saying: “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Lk 12:2 There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.
Lk 12:3 What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.

those religion leaders ad the scriptures but it was the teachings and there interpretation that Christ reproaches to them,

February 11, 2012 at 9:21 pm#277265

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,07:06)

Hi David,

Your statement appears to be conformation to the question…

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,02:45)

“Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?”

And here's how you have proven their teaching to us:

Quote (Adjusted David @ 1 quote)

But, you seem to think it is wrong for one group(JW's) to label others
who believe they are Christians(Non-JW's) as non-Christians.

God bless
Ed J

Hi David, you don't deny that this is their teaching, do you?

Matt 5:37 But (David) let your communication be, Yea, yea;
Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 9:26 pm#277266

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,07:15)

Hi David,

The trinitarian and non-trinitarian views are both correct.
It can be compared to the understanding of a Paradox.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed, those words are so bizarre to me, I think I must start a thread on it.

We have like 400 threads on the trinity. But we have never had that statement made before. I would like to see what others think.

February 11, 2012 at 9:32 pm#277271

Participant

February 11, 2012 at 9:45 pm#277274

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,11:56)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2012,04:21)

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,11:09)

Quote

I asked: “Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?”

The problem Ed, is, everyone thinks they are following Christ, ie: a Christian.

If everyone was following Christ, would this forum exist? If we all had the mind of Christ and were one, as Jesus said his followers would be, would this forum exist? No.

The Christ is not divided. Clearly, mathematically, logically, we are not all following Christ. (We all “believe in” Christ. But that's different, isn't it?)

Ed, you don't think I am a Christian. (ie: you don't think I am following Christ)–because you believe that I have belief x and belief Z and belief w.

Ed, I believe you are not following Christ, because I don't believe Jesus said anything about a hidden number code in the Bible. I just don't see it. I believe your belief is wrong–on the number code and on other things.

Ed, half of us here think Jesus is God Almighty. The other half of us think those people are delusional. Are both groups following Christ? Are both groups Christians? Is the Christ divided? Are his followers divided? Or are they one, as he said they would be?

Ed, I am not who you think I am.

Hi David

In this you are right ,and all believers are paying their way in a way ,because we still learning to perfect us so that we may be approve by Christ and his father,no matter what we believe,and it is our responsibility to make sure that we follow the truth of Gods word.

Pierre

PIERRE, don't you see, that is exactly what JW's say?

It's how past false beliefs are explained.

David

as an individual person it can be understood and applied,but wen it is an organization that says that it has the spirit guiding her,this is not the same thing ,because by saying this now you open yourself to scrutiny and see if this is true ,and we know that the apostles have never preach lies,because they were truly guided by the holy spirit ,and not there own spirit ,

so the ORG.of JW their are not excusable for false interpretation,and are so any better then any other even if they believe otherwise, IMO

Pierre

February 11, 2012 at 10:07 pm#277278

Participant

I know Pierre.

It's bad. I make no defense and know everything you do about this, and much more based on your limited comments.

What I'm saying is, is that both organizations AND individuals on this forum say they are guided by the holy spirit, and both say that they are learning and improving as they go. And when words are put into writing, both can be scrutinized.

My discussion with Ed, is about whether it is right for one, or one group to consider all others non-Christians based on their beliefs.

If someone tells me things like:
–God the Father is the holy spirit
–the word is the holy spirit
–the trinitarian view and the non-trinitarian view are both correct
–The Bible has a hidden number code
etc,
(Let's imagine I listed another 100 things I don't agree with)

Would I consider that person to be following Christ if i don't think they are following Christ's beliefs and teachings?

We know from the Bible that many would say “lord,lord” and truly BELIEVE they were Christians, and following Christ, but that this would not be the case.

So, my question is, what criteria do we set for establishing who is following Christ when we can not agree on what Christ taught or believed or told us to do?

If someone says: “I am a Christian and I support killing babies and I want to Nuke Russian and I like terrorists and Satan,” then I feel like I have every right to say: “No, I don't think you are a Christian, ie: I don't think you are following Christ. Here is why…”

February 11, 2012 at 10:28 pm#277282

Participant

Hi David,

Eph 5:6-13 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the
wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is
acceptable unto the LORD. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but
rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Are you ashamed of what the watchtower society teaches you in secret? I have merely brought their teachings to light.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 10:30 pm#277283

Participant

Hi David, your lack of denying it, is PROOF that it is correct!

Your statement appears to be conformation to the question…

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,02:45)

“Is it not true that your organization teaches that non-members are non-Christians?”

And here's how you have proven their teaching to us:

Quote (Adjusted David @ 1 quote)

But, you seem to think it is wrong for one group(JW's) to label others
who believe they are Christians(Non-JW's) as non-Christians.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 11:07 pm#277285

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,08:28)

Hi David,

Are you ashamed of what the watchtower society teaches you in secret? I have merely brought their teachings to light.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed, my guess is you don't know 1/100th of what I know on this because if you did, you would be saying much different things, instead of sticking to this one…tiny, thing.

I also know that you don't seem to know what I believe.

If you wanted to know what JW believe, I'm fairly certain you could find it on their website.

You would perhaps get a more accurate understanding there anyway. I mean, how can you even trust me to convey what they believe? I play mind games, remember?

Bob

February 11, 2012 at 11:25 pm#277287

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,09:07)

You would perhaps get a more accurate understanding there anyway. I mean, how can you even trust me to convey what they believe? I play mind games, remember?

Bob

Hi David,

Who said anything about “mind games”?

Do you consider an avoidance of speaking THE TRUTH to be “mind games”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 11, 2012 at 11:35 pm#277293

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2012,12:37)

Quote

Wakeup, I CHALLENGE YOU to produce one NWT translation, or one JW belief that is scripturally wrong.

–MIKE, few pages back.

This is a really weird challenge!!!

It's like saying that you believe that “JW belief” is all correct. You can't believe this yourself, as you aren't a JW and have said that you disagree with certain things. (You haven't become a JW in the last 4 months while I was away, have you?)

I could put you in a really awkward position now by stating something JW believe that I know you must disagree with…unless you are a JW?

David,

This is from a post I made on page 5 of this very thread:

Wakeup, I CHALLENGE YOU to produce one NWT translation, or one JW belief that is scripturally wrong.

Put your money where your mouth is, Wakeup. Instead of slamming them as a whole with hearsay, pick one of their beliefs and scripturally tear it down. I'll even help you with a couple of them. (But on the things on which I disagree with the JWs, I can clearly see how and why they interpret the scriptures the way they do – although I don't interpret them the same way in those couple of instances.)

Satisfied?

February 11, 2012 at 11:42 pm#277294

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2012,15:07)

I know Pierre.

It's bad. I make no defense and know everything you do about this, and much more based on your limited comments.

My discussion with Ed, is about whether it is right for one, or one group to consider all others non-Christians based on their beliefs.

Would I consider that person to be following Christ if i don't think they are following Christ's beliefs and teachings?

We know from the Bible that many would say “lord,lord” and truly BELIEVE they were Christians, and following Christ, but that this would not be the case.

So, my question is, what criteria do we set for establishing who is following Christ when we can not agree on what Christ taught or believed or told us to do?

David

agree and true

February 11, 2012 at 11:45 pm#277296

Participant

Mike

this is for you to answer;

Mike

you got it all upside down ;we are not talking about scriptures here ;

we talking about their teachings of their understanding and interpretation of the scriptures ;

those religion leaders ad the scriptures but it was the teachings and there interpretation that Christ reproaches to them,

Pierre

February 11, 2012 at 11:46 pm#277299

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 11 2012,14:16)

we talking about their teachings of their understanding and interpretation of the scriptures

Yes Pierre,

Because you were the only one in the “Blatant Corruption in the NWT” thread to admit that you know of no scripture that the NWT translates wrong, I understand that you speak of certain JW INTERPRETATIONS of scripture.

But my point remains the same: Show WHAT one of those interpretations is, and then show me SCRIPTURALLY how that interpretation is against the scriptures.

And I'm not talking about YOUR opinion that Jesus will come in 2020 versus theirs that he will come in 2021. (This is obviously just an example – as I know neither of you has set a date for the second coming of Jesus.)

What I'm talking about is a belief they have for which the scriptures COULD NOT POSSIBLY be understood that way.

What's your first one? Tell what their belief is, and then show us all scripturally how their belief is so far against scripture that it can't POSSIBLY be the truth of the matter.

February 12, 2012 at 12:00 am#277305