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That last question was a very good one, one that deserves some thought.
It was Satan who started the lie of immortality of the soul. It's not taught in scripture.
hi,
What then of those who are part of the second resurrection? What is resurrected? Just their body? Or do they still have the same personality and nature? Surely they do. Well these characters are not body characters but of the soul. So if they are the same personality and nature where has that personality been secreted in the intervening years or millenia?That's right David, the scriptures do not teach “” Dante Aligeri's, Plato, Socrates “” imortal soul of man concepts.
Nick, I will give you “” 1,000 “” dolars IF you can find these TWO WORDS BELOW connected together in a sentence in the scriptures.
They are “” Immortal soul “”? Now, I can make that offer, because I know for certain that you cannot find those two words connected together in the scriptures.
You can't find a “” needle “” in a haystack, when that ” needle ” is not there.
Eliyah C.
No eliyah,
But death is just sleep as Jesus about Lazarus and Paul said in 1Thess. It is certainly not sleep for the body which vanishes into the soil from which it came. We know too from Ecclesiastes that the spirit returns to God.So what sleeps?
Kepha(Peter) in ( Acts 2:29) said King David was BOTH DEAD AND BURIED.
Then, in ( Acts 2:34) Kepha( Peter) said FOR DAVID DID NOT ASSCEND INTO THE HEAVENS.
Also, Shaul(Paul) in ( Heb.11:4-39) said ALL THESE DIED IN FAITH( Heb.11:13, 39), ** NOT HAVING RECEIVED THE PROMISES **.
What Promises ? The promises of IMMORTAL ETERNAL LIFE by a resurrection( 1 Cor.15:50-54) to inherit this entire earth, in Yah's coming Kingdom( Rev.11:15).
There are not ” immortal souls ” floating arround in Heaven Nick.
Well now, King David is not floating arround in Heaven either is he??
The ” spirit”( Psuke) you refer to IS NOT CONSCIOUS and neither does it have a body as Mythology teaches Nick.
Eliyah C.
nick hassan, it is very clear in the bible, that it is unclear in heaven for men.
i already mentioned that jesus asked “who is my mother? who is my brother?” and then you try to use that same reference against me?
i already mentioned if you do not know the direction of the wind, how can you know what happens in heaven?
you know 2 + 2 = 4 on earth. but you do not know 2 + 2 = 4 in heaven you cannot say so definitively as if you have authority or as if you were given authoritative knowledge whether yes or no, whether up or down in heaven, after death.
i think i should have wrote “…unclear concerning heaven for men.”
when jonah was brought under the ocean, he was amazed i think. when prophets were shown prophecy or whatever by angels, they can be so amazed or afraid.
nick hassan, it seems as if you speak as if you have some kind of special knowledge above us without a single chance of being wrong.
also, in heaven, 1 day can be as 1,000 days or 1,000 days can be as 1 day.
nick hassan, explain yourself.
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 12 2005,04:12) Kepha(Peter) in ( Acts 2:29) said King David was BOTH DEAD AND BURIED. Then, in ( Acts 2:34) Kepha( Peter) said FOR DAVID DID NOT ASSCEND INTO THE HEAVENS.
Also, Shaul(Paul) in ( Heb.11:4-39) said ALL THESE DIED IN FAITH( Heb.11:13, 39), ** NOT HAVING RECEIVED THE PROMISES **.
What Promises ? The promises of IMMORTAL ETERNAL LIFE by a resurrection( 1 Cor.15:50-54) to inherit this entire earth, in Yah's coming Kingdom( Rev.11:15).
There are not ” immortal souls ” floating arround in Heaven Nick.
Well now, King David is not floating arround in Heaven either is he??
The ” spirit”( Psuke) you refer to IS NOT CONSCIOUS and neither does it have a body as Mythology teaches Nick.
Eliyah C.
Hi e,
Jesus showed Abraham, who had died and been buried, to be alive and able to communicate from his pleasant place of waiting, while the rich man suffered in Hades in Lk 16.19f. He also said in Jn 8.56.
“Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it and was glad”
In Matt 22.32 he said about his Father and Abraham;
“I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' God is not the God of the dead but of the living”
To our God they are not dead but alive and awaiting resurrection as with the souls of those beneath the throne in Rev6.9f.Nick You said, “”
Quote Hi e,
Jesus showed Abraham, who had died and been buried, to be alive and able to communicate from his pleasant place of waiting, while the rich man suffered in Hades in Lk 16.19f. He also said in Jn 8.56.
“Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it and was glad”
In Matt 22.32 he said about his Father and Abraham;
“I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' God is not the God of the dead but of the living”
To our God they are not dead but alive and awaiting resurrection as with the souls of those beneath the throne in Rev6.9f.Nick, Did Abel's ” soul ” cry out to Yah in from the “” throne “” in ( Gen.4:9-10)????????????
WHY would Yah ask Cain “” WHERE IS THY BROTHER ABEL, if his soul was in Heaven under the alter and throne?
( Rev.6:9) is symbolic of all those that were murdered for their witness, and their blood cries out to Yah symbolic as…
“”
Quote Thy brother's blood crieth unto me( Yah) FROM THE GROUND( Gen.4:10). Why didn't Yah say and ask””
Quote Your Brother Abel cries out to me at the throne up here in Heaven?? Or, why didn't Yah say and ask, “” What is Abel's spirit doing up here with me in Heaven under the Throne???
Or, WHY did He( Yah) not say, What is Abel's spirit doing knocking on St. Peter's Door up here???
WHY did Yah NOT ask and say those??
As far as Your “” rich man ” is concerned, Messiah was teaching concerning “” JUDGEMENT DAY””( Rev.20:13-14), which does not come until AFTER the 1000 year period( Rev.20:5).
Evidently you did not read my FIRST POST CONCERNING THIS, and neither do you read the verses of scriptures that I give either do you???
So much for your “” Dante “” mythology of paganism beliefs that you try to combine with the scriptures.
Eliyah C.
Wow, this topic is flying.
Nick said:
“So if they are the same personality and nature where has that personality been secreted in the intervening years or millenia?”Well Nick, we're told that the numbers of hairs on our head are numbers. We're told that Jehovah knows the names of all the stars. Needless to say, his memory is the safest place in the universe. If Jehovah remembers us, he can resurrect us, with all of those hairs back on our head, and all of those memories in our head and absolutely every detail of everything.
“death is just sleep.”
No, and neither is sleep just death.
Jesus COMPARED death to sleep so we could understand. We understand that a sleeping person can be woke up. We understand that when someone is in a deep sleep, they are not conscious of anything, just as the scriptures speak of death. Jesus was helping us to understand Nick, much like the throne that Jehovah sits on.
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 12 2005,05:29) Nick You said, “” Quote Hi e,
Jesus showed Abraham, who had died and been buried, to be alive and able to communicate from his pleasant place of waiting, while the rich man suffered in Hades in Lk 16.19f. He also said in Jn 8.56.
“Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it and was glad”
In Matt 22.32 he said about his Father and Abraham;
“I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' God is not the God of the dead but of the living”
To our God they are not dead but alive and awaiting resurrection as with the souls of those beneath the throne in Rev6.9f.Nick, Did Abel's ” soul ” cry out to Yah in from the “” throne “” in ( Gen.4:9-10)?
??WHY would Yah ask Cain “” WHERE IS THY BROTHER ABEL, if his soul was in Heaven under the alter and throne?
( Rev.6:9) is symbolic of all those that were murdered for their witness, and their blood cries out to Yah symbolic as…
“”
Quote Thy brother's blood crieth unto me( Yah) FROM THE GROUND( Gen.4:10). Why didn't Yah say and ask””
Quote Your Brother Abel cries out to me at the throne up here in Heaven?? Or, why didn't Yah say and ask, “” What is Abel's spirit doing up here with me in Heaven under the Throne???
Or, WHY did He( Yah) not say, What is Abel's spirit doing knocking on St. Peter's Door up here???
WHY did Yah NOT ask and say those??
As far as Your “” rich man ” is concerned, Messiah was teaching concerning “” JUDGEMENT DAY””( Rev.20:13-14), which does not come until AFTER the 1000 year period( Rev.20:5).
Evidently you did not read my FIRST POST CONCERNING THIS, and neither do you read the verses of scriptures that I give either do you???
So much for your “” Dante “” mythology of paganism beliefs that you try to combine with the scriptures.
Eliyah C.
Hi e,
I try to read all that you and others write in the hope it may give light. But, like David, I find your logic unclear and rushed at times.
You have searched for fault in scripture a great deal and risk shaking the faith of the young in the Lord. Their Faith rests on these revelations and on the Spirit that inspired them.You need to be patient with others not yet ready to jump to your conclusions.
I have to agree that it's extremely hard to keep up when a topic is moving so fast and there's a number of topics and only one Nick. I think we should slow down and go over one scripture at a time instead of throwing a lot of scriptures at someone, which they may not even read and only respond to one scripture anyway.
dave
Ezek. 18:4: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (RS, NE, KJ, and Dy all render the Hebrew word ne´phesh in this verse as “soul,” thus saying that it is the soul that dies. Some translations that render ne´phesh as “soul” in other passages use the expression “the man” or “the one” in this verse. So, the ne´phesh, the soul, is the person, not an immaterial part of him that survives when his body dies.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (The Hebrew word here translated “spirit” is a derivative of ru´ach. Some translators render it “breath.” When that ru´ach, or active life-force, leaves the body, the person’s thoughts perish; they do not continue in another realm.)
Eccl. 3:19-21: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth?” (Because of the inheritance of sin and death from Adam, humans all die and return to the dust, as animals do. But does each human have a spirit that goes on living as an intelligent personality after it ceases to function in the body? No; verse 19 answers that humans and beasts “all have but one spirit.” Based merely on human observation, no one can authoritatively answer the question raised in verse 21 regarding the spirit. But God’s Word answers that there is nothing that humans have as a result of birth that gives them superiority over beasts when they die. However, because of God’s merciful provision through Christ, the prospect of living forever has been opened up to humans who exercise faith, but not to animals. For many of mankind, that will be made possible by resurrection, when active life-force from God will invigorate them again.)
Luke 23:46: “Jesus called with a loud voice and said: ‘Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit [Greek, pneu´ma´].’ When he had said this, he expired.” (Notice that Jesus expired. When his spirit went out he was not on his way to heaven. Not until the third day from this was Jesus resurrected from the dead. Then, as Acts 1:3, 9 shows, it was 40 more days before he ascended to heaven. So, what is the meaning of what Jesus said at the time of his death? He was saying that he knew that, when he died, his future life prospects rested entirely with God.
What does the Bible say that helps us to understand what the soul is?
Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.”
(Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is ne´phesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”)1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”
(So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.)
(The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psy·khe´. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”)1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.”
(The Greek word here translated “souls” is psy·khai´, the plural form of psy·khe´. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”)Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from ne´phesh] shall I ask back.”
(Here the soul is said to have blood.)Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, ne´phesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.”
(The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.)
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