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Quote Genesis 1 tells us God is plural when he said “Let us” make man in “our image”. So woman is the image of man, and then the whole of scriptures due to it is 'man this and man that, we get a free pass or woman don't enter into the kingdom, we have a seperate place we go to.
Hey you know WJ, the gospel of thomas has a verse in it that states ” in order for a woman to enter into the kingdom, she must become a man”
Now by what I understand your forefathers took this physically, as they do with all things, and was one of the main reason the book did not make it.So either, you have to go outside your cannon and accept the verse, or you believe that woman have no place in heaven.
what say you?
Quote Hey All, Am I mistaken or has WJ declined my challenge?
Princess,It seems that Keith has decided to say, “The scriptural Trinity came first and you can't prove it didn't” to any comparison you make with other religions.
But I'd be willing to bet that his first two “proof” points about “Let us make man” and “plural Elohim” – which are easily refuted – will be the best he has to offer.
peace
the Hindoo bible, in which it was found was compiled fourteen hundred years before Christ, and written at a still earlier period. And we find the same doctrine very explicitly taught in the ancient Brahmin, Persian, Chaldean, Chinese, Mexican and Grecian systems—all much older than Christianity.
O you three Lords!” ejaculated Attencion, “know that I recognize only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity that I may address to him alone my vows and adorations. The three Gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, becoming manifest to him, replied, “Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only by semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation and destruction, but he is one.”
St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, “All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity.
Quote (princess @ July 27 2011,18:37) Mike, I don't do trinity.
Why? Is it because you don't enjoy the feeling of beating your head against a wall?Or is it because you don't like to discuss scriptural matters with people whose language comprehension skills rival those of a three year old?
Come on guys, God is a “HE” not a “THEY”. And Jesus is the Son OF that “HE”. What more is there really left to say?
Sorry for the interruption……………carry on.
More or less Mike, I did not know the trinity existed till about six or so years ago, the first time I heard of it, I thought the person was mad, and much has not changed since then. I have been involved in many 'discussions' over the trinity, however I do find T8's post to be the puriest in form.
I do not think an age of a person has anything to do with them spiritual, I could almost take your comment as insulting my son, since he and I have discussed matters since he has been born, however I know this is not the case in point.
Perhaps you can genderize your god, as long as it gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling, makes no mind to me, I do not believe that something so pure, divine and true can have a gender, I tend to think man has came up with such, to understand. However, as long as one learns the true message is fine by me, I do not think it will deter the outcome.
Wow, I should just walk away. You seem to take every single thing I say the wrong way Princess.
I said NOTHING about the spirituality of children. I was speaking of a three year old's grasp of language. For at about that age, they are only beginning to know the difference between a “HE” and a “THEY”, and what it means to be “OF” something or someone. My comment was that it seems Trinitarians have the same troubles with language skills.
And YES, our God is a HE. And HE created man first, and then woman as a companion/possession OF man. It seems a little odd to our modern culture – but then again so does killing a one year old lamb who had done nothing wrong as a way to atone for OUR OWN sins.
Hey, I didn't make the rules, but I completely trust the One who did. I trust HIM with my whole being. Perhaps your friend Shimmer could help you find some humility in this matter – for she seems to be on top of this issue.
I'm leaving now, for you and I are like water and oil.
peace to you and yours,
mikeQuote (princess @ July 28 2011,06:39) the Hindoo bible, in which it was found was compiled fourteen hundred years before Christ, and written at a still earlier period. And we find the same doctrine very explicitly taught in the ancient Brahmin, Persian, Chaldean, Chinese, Mexican and Grecian systems—all much older than Christianity. O you three Lords!” ejaculated Attencion, “know that I recognize only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity that I may address to him alone my vows and adorations. The three Gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, becoming manifest to him, replied, “Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only by semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation and destruction, but he is one.”
St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, “All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity.
Princess,The Hindu's also believe that human being are part of God.
It is simply a corrupt view of the unity of the Spirit.
All you have pointed out is that there is a common root to many religions and that artistic liberties have been exercised by various human beings in their service to the evil one.
You can see the same thing in the multiple sects of Christianity.
Quote And HE created man first, and then woman as a companion/possession OF man Mike, this is where we will must definity find ourselves at ends, and by no means will a lesson in humility change this. For you to tell my ultimate goal in life is to be a mans companion or possession is like taking a lamb to slaughter to atone for sins.
What rules where made to consider woman as nothing more then a mere possession. Perhaps a lesson in humility is not needed for me. We are equal in everything spiritually Mike, however, to show a scripture that reads men and woman will be judge differently I would love to see it, you have one?
That is what most do they pull the physical card and tend to forget the spiritual one.
Making comments on a triad intelliengce is not helping what ever you are trying to state, trinitarians are very smart, they need to be, their belief is one that has many years of teachings behind it, the point of the matter is, is the message being sent by either side. By what I read, it does not, it is just back and forth deciding which god to serve. one or three. where does that help.
Peace be with you Mike.
Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2011,15:14) Quote (princess @ July 28 2011,06:39) the Hindoo bible, in which it was found was compiled fourteen hundred years before Christ, and written at a still earlier period. And we find the same doctrine very explicitly taught in the ancient Brahmin, Persian, Chaldean, Chinese, Mexican and Grecian systems—all much older than Christianity. O you three Lords!” ejaculated Attencion, “know that I recognize only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity that I may address to him alone my vows and adorations. The three Gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, becoming manifest to him, replied, “Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only by semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation and destruction, but he is one.”
St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, “All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity.
Princess,The Hindu's also believe that human being are part of God.
It is simply a corrupt view of the unity of the Spirit.
All you have pointed out is that there is a common root to many religions and that artistic liberties have been exercised by various human beings in their service to the evil one.
You can see the same thing in the multiple sects of Christianity.
Exactly Kerwin.In having such information, should one take heed not follow such or mirror the belief.
Quote (princess @ July 29 2011,06:31) Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2011,15:14) Quote (princess @ July 28 2011,06:39) the Hindoo bible, in which it was found was compiled fourteen hundred years before Christ, and written at a still earlier period. And we find the same doctrine very explicitly taught in the ancient Brahmin, Persian, Chaldean, Chinese, Mexican and Grecian systems—all much older than Christianity. O you three Lords!” ejaculated Attencion, “know that I recognize only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity that I may address to him alone my vows and adorations. The three Gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, becoming manifest to him, replied, “Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only by semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation and destruction, but he is one.”
St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, “All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity.
Princess,The Hindu's also believe that human being are part of God.
It is simply a corrupt view of the unity of the Spirit.
All you have pointed out is that there is a common root to many religions and that artistic liberties have been exercised by various human beings in their service to the evil one.
You can see the same thing in the multiple sects of Christianity.
Exactly Kerwin.In having such information, should one take heed not follow such or mirror the belief.
princessI use to have all those documents as well 40 years ago that is wen i strew all in the garbage, and stick only with scriptures
because once you know it the info as done is work, it can not be used to improve your faith ,only truth of God can ,
I like your comments ,
Pierre
Quote (princess @ July 27 2011,18:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,01:40) Quote (princess @ July 26 2011,18:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2011,07:55) Princess and Peirre First of all you should honor the topic of the thread.
Yes I am touchy about anti-Jesus is God people like you posting junk in a thread that was created for the Jesus is God people to post the “anti-Jesus is God fallacies” and show how they are debunked.
BTW If you don't agree with what is posted there then you can refute it in the “Jesus is God fallacies” thread Here.
No one wants to scroll through a bunch of nonsense to see the truth!
WJ
WJ,See what you did, now we are in the hot seat. Been sent to the corner by pops.
So, instead of playing tear the scriptures apart how about we have a comparison battle, you give me a part of your belief and I will give you a comparison of a ancient belief that is the same.
What you say, you in?
Sure if you can prove that the Trinity was derived from your ancient beliefs or was it the other way around?Debunked already since you cannot prove the “Trinity” was derived from “Ancient Beliefs” instead of Scripture.
Check the Forefathers out and see if any of them quote “ancient beliefs”.
Genesis 1 tells us God is plural when he said “Let us” make man in “our image”.
The Hebrew word “Elohyim” is the plural for “el”.
Were the “ancient beliefs” around before Genesis?
But I tell you what, since I love not “ancient beliefs” more than scriptures why not you and I go head to head on whether the Bible speaks of a “Trinity” or God being a plural Unity!
What say you?
WJ
Hey All,Am I mistaken or has WJ declined my challenge?
PrincessYes I did because I care not to delve into the “ancient beliefs”. This sight is a Biblical sight where the Bible is discussed.
But I know full well you cannot prove that the Trinity was based on “ancient beliefs”.
But even so then you would be accusing Jesus, the Apostles and the Forefathers of getting their Trinitarian beliefs from “ancient beliefs”.
Do you believe in the “Father” the “Son” and the “Holy Spirit” because if you do then that is a “Trinity” and especially since you cannot be saved without the three.
The question is in what way do you view them as a “Trinity”?
You guys can throw the word “Trinity” around as a joke if you want but if you are honest you will admit that all True Christians believe in a Trinity in one way or another.
The question is in what way do you view them as a “Trinity”?
Jesus said…
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father”, and of “the Son”, and of “the Holy Ghost”: Math 28:19
So now you have to choose to believe if Jesus was borrowing from “ancient beliefs” a “Trinity” or did the “ancient beliefs” come from the scriptures or was it just a coincidence.
I am sure in “ancient beliefs” as well as in any religion you can find similarities but that proves nothing.
I would rather believe Jesus words when he speaks of a Trinity and I doubt that he derived his statement from “ancient beliefs”. Is that what you think?
So as you can see Matt 28:19 debunks your claim that the “Trinity” was derived from “ancient beliefs”.
Tell me Princess can you be saved apart from the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
WJ
Quote (princess @ July 27 2011,19:16) Quote Genesis 1 tells us God is plural when he said “Let us” make man in “our image”. So woman is the image of man, and then the whole of scriptures due to it is 'man this and man that, we get a free pass or woman don't enter into the kingdom, we have a seperate place we go to.
Hey you know WJ, the gospel of thomas has a verse in it that states ” in order for a woman to enter into the kingdom, she must become a man”
Now by what I understand your forefathers took this physically, as they do with all things, and was one of the main reason the book did not make it.So either, you have to go outside your cannon and accept the verse, or you believe that woman have no place in heaven.
what say you?
PrincessThere is neither male nor female in Christ. but it seems that you have an agenda agianst men for you pull that card a lot.
Does it bother you that the woman was made from the rib of a man?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,19:17)
But I'd be willing to bet that his first two “proof” points about “Let us make man” and “plural Elohim” – which are easily refuted – will be the best he has to offer.peace
MikeNot at all! Matt 28:19 is a good start also, and there are many more.
WJ
Quote (princess @ July 27 2011,19:37) Mike, I don't do trinity.
PrincessReally? Are you a Christian? What about Matt 28:19?
WJ
Quote (princess @ July 27 2011,19:39)
St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, “All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity.
PrincessNow show us where St Jerome “unequivocally” states that he derived his Trinitarian beliefs from the “ancients”.
I think he is just stating that the “ancients” were onto something.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 29 2011,08:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,19:17)
But I'd be willing to bet that his first two “proof” points about “Let us make man” and “plural Elohim” – which are easily refuted – will be the best he has to offer.peace
MikeNot at all! Matt 28:19 is a good start also, and there are many more.
WJ
WJMt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”the words;Therefore go and make disciples of all nations
make disciples for whom ? for them self ? so that they can profit of the wealth of the world ?
My Hebrew version do not have Mat 28,19,
and did any of the disciples made those requirements that Christ requested ?I do not think so
Now in verse 20 Christ recommend to teach them to obey all what he as commented them to do,
is this not strange that during all Christ gospel he never teaches what is in verse 19
and strange enough it is only trinitarians who apply that scripture and disregard verse 20
unbelievable but true
Pierre
Peirre
I don't disregard verse 20 but it looks like you disregard verse 19. As usual when you have no response to a certain scripture that you disagree with then you claim it shouldn't be there or it is corrupt?
You shoud read this thread and check the evidence regarding Matt 28:19 Click here!
Here is a clip from that thread…
There is overwhelming evidence that proves that Matthew 28:19 is authentic including the fact it is found in every extant Greek Biblical manuscript…
As if that is not enough damaging evidence against the ATs, the nail in the coffin is the Didache contains the tripartite phrase..
Though the date of the Didache (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) is debated, most scholars would put it between 90 and 120 CE with some suggesting an even earlier date.
Not only is the verse found in “every extant manuscript which is in the thousands”, but it is found in the Didache which is dated between 90 and 120 AD!
So you have rejected the scriptures and Jesus own words.
If you think the Bible is corrupt then you should join the Muslims and accept the Koran over the scriptures!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 29 2011,10:32) Peirre I don't disregard verse 20 but it looks like you disregard verse 19. As usual when you have no response to a certain scripture that you disagree with then you claim it shouldn't be there or it is corrupt?
You shoud read this thread and check the evidence regarding Matt 28:19 Click here!
Here is a clip from that thread…
There is overwhelming evidence that proves that Matthew 28:19 is authentic including the fact it is found in every extant Greek Biblical manuscript…
As if that is not enough damaging evidence against the ATs, the nail in the coffin is the Didache contains the tripartite phrase..
Though the date of the Didache (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) is debated, most scholars would put it between 90 and 120 CE with some suggesting an even earlier date.
Not only is the verse found in “every extant manuscript which is in the thousands”, but it is found in the Didache which is dated between 90 and 120 AD!
So you have rejected the scriptures and Jesus own words.
If you think the Bible is corrupt then you should join the Muslims and accept the Koran over the scriptures!
WJ
WJwhy you do not answer all my questions?
and how do you see the trinity in that scripture ?
Baptized mean emerge what also mean being teach
the holy spirit mean the true will of God with power,
the son = verse 20
and the father is according to what Christ ad said to his disciples
so there only could be trinity if you change the meaning of the gospel of Christ and the teachings of the apostles ,
all others scholars only have opinion of there own,and adding yours to it would not make it more clear.we all will stand in Christ judgement.
and I do not believe that the bible is corrupt but some people are like trinitarians.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2011,11:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 29 2011,10:32) Peirre I don't disregard verse 20 but it looks like you disregard verse 19. As usual when you have no response to a certain scripture that you disagree with then you claim it shouldn't be there or it is corrupt?
You shoud read this thread and check the evidence regarding Matt 28:19 Click here!
Here is a clip from that thread…
There is overwhelming evidence that proves that Matthew 28:19 is authentic including the fact it is found in every extant Greek Biblical manuscript…
As if that is not enough damaging evidence against the ATs, the nail in the coffin is the Didache contains the tripartite phrase..
Though the date of the Didache (The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) is debated, most scholars would put it between 90 and 120 CE with some suggesting an even earlier date.
Not only is the verse found in “every extant manuscript which is in the thousands”, but it is found in the Didache which is dated between 90 and 120 AD!
So you have rejected the scriptures and Jesus own words.
If you think the Bible is corrupt then you should join the Muslims and accept the Koran over the scriptures!
WJ
so there only could be trinity if you change the meaning of the gospel of Christ and the teachings of the apostles ,
PierreI answered your question by refuting your claim that Matt 28:19 is not a legitimate and inspired scripture.
Now do you reject Jesus words over the Apostles?
Or do you have a contradiction?
Click Here and learn that there is no contradiction and in fact Matt 28:19 and the Apostles teaching in Acts are the word of God.
Either you reject one or the other and believe the Bible is corrupt or you accept they are all inspired and that there is no contradiction and that Jesus spoke of a “Trinity”.
Pierre, do you believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
If you do then you believe in a Trinity.
WJ
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