Begotten god

[davidbfun]

There is ONE verse in the Bible (NASB) that says “begotten God”:

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only “begotten (of) God” who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

I tried to explain that the word “of” is not used in Greek and was not inserted by translators in English in this verse….see (of) where I inserted it for comparison.

Now remove (of) how does the verse read to you?

Does it make Jesus, the begotten, “God” or does it make you think that Jesus is begotten, “God-natured”?

There is not a right or wrong answer.

Inquiring minds want to see how you “feel” about the two ways this verse could be written and interpreted.

The Professor

[Ed J]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 24 2010,12:52)

There is ONE verse in the Bible (NASB) that says “begotten God”: Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only “begotten (of) God” who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. I tried to explain that the word “of” is not used in Greek and was not inserted by translators in English in this verse….see (of) where I inserted it for comparison. Now remove (of) how does the verse read to you? Does it make Jesus, the begotten, “God” or does it make you think that Jesus is begotten, “God-natured”? There is not a right or wrong answer.   Inquiring minds want to see how you “feel” about the two ways this verse could be written and interpreted. The Professor

HI David,

The 'NAS Book' is corrupted: worthy 'only' to be thrown in recycle bin.
That phrase appears nowhere in sacred texts called “The Bible”!

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (In The AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue(That is English) will he speak to this people.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 24 2010,12:52)

There is ONE verse in the Bible (NASB) that says “begotten God”: Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only “begotten (of) God” who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. I tried to explain that the word “of” is not used in Greek and was not inserted by translators in English in this verse….see (of) where I inserted it for comparison. Now remove (of) how does the verse read to you? Does it make Jesus, the begotten, “God” or does it make you think that Jesus is begotten, “God-natured”? There is not a right or wrong answer.   Inquiring minds want to see how you “feel” about the two ways this verse could be written and interpreted. The Professor

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((edit))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
HI David,

The 'NAS Book' is corrupted: worthy 'only' to be thrown in the recycle bin.
That phrase appears nowhere in sacred texts called “The Bible”!

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (In The AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue(That is English) will he speak to this people.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org[/quote]

[Lightenup]

Hi Professor,
I think that every time we see “Son of God” we can equate that to 'begotten God' because that is what a divine being would beget. So, 'begotten God' is in the NASB one time and Son of God is in there many times. They mean the same thing as far as I understand it. That is why the Pharisees thought that Jesus was making Himself out to be God, because He said that He was the Son of God. The Pharisees didn't like the thought of a begotten God. I am thankful for the NASB and find it more accurate than others in this case and often otherwise. I think your addition of the word 'of' is not the intention of the author.

[davidbfun]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 24 2010,21:53)

Hi Professor, I think that every time we see “Son of God” we can equate that to 'begotten God' because that is what a divine being would beget.  So, 'begotten God' is in the NASB one time and Son of God is in there many times.  They mean the same thing as far as I understand it.  That is why the Pharisees thought that Jesus was making Himself out to be God, because He said that He was the Son of God.  The Pharisees didn't like the thought of a begotten God.  I am thankful for the NASB and find it more accurate than others in this case and often otherwise.  I think your addition of the word 'of' is not the intention of the author.

Kathi,

As you see, I stayed with the NASB because it is more closely to our language.

However, here is the KJV which would've “proved” my point without any debate:

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Seeing that the KJV pushes the Trinity I am surprised that they didn't put “God” there, aren't you?

The Professor

[Lightenup]

Professor,
I am not surprised that the KJV put 'son' there. The trinity doesn't easily explain a begotten God. That is why 'one and only' has taken its place. I think that it is a subtle deception. The main argument about John 1:18 had been whether the word was 'huios' or 'theos' in the Greek. The NET Bible has reached a consensus that the original word is 'theos' but they say to translate monogenes as only begotten as it literally means, that could lead to the impression that the Son was a result of a metaphysical birth. Thus they use 'the one and only, himself God,' in place of 'only begotten'. One and only represents the 'mono' part of monogenes just fine but doesn't represent the genes part at all. The 'genes' part is a verb and there should be an action reflected when translating monogenes. The NASB translates it as 'only begotten' which was gutsy on their part and I applaud them because I believe that it is true to the intent of the author.

Here are several translations of John 1:18. Some translate monogenes theos and some translate monogenes huios.

John 1:18

NET ©
No one has ever seen God. The only one, 1 himself God, who is in closest fellowship with 2 the Father, has made God 3 known. 4

NIV ©
No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

NASB ©
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NLT ©
No one has ever seen God. But his only Son, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart; he has told us about him.

MSG ©
No one has ever seen God, not so much as a glimpse. This one-of-a-kind God-Expression, who exists at the very heart of the Father, has made him plain as day.

BBE ©
No man has seen God at any time; the only Son, who is on the breast of the Father, he has made clear what God is.

NRSV ©
No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.

NKJV ©
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him .

[JustAskin]

The Word “God” is a TITLE … Not a Person.

It means “Mighty One”…

There is nothing Suspicious, odd, strange, corrupt, etc about the verse.

It means “The Only Begotten Mighty One”.

There is nothing to query – no depths to Plumb.

Please understand this and you will understand a great deal more… Please.

[Lightenup]

Ok, JA…

The only begotten mighty what? What is the 'one' in mighty one. Is the title 'god/God' here referring to a person as in 'only begotten mighty person' or a being as in the 'only begotten mighty being'. Does that leave any room for satan being begotten and the firstborn if Jesus is the only begotten mighty one?

If there is an only begotten mighty being then the one that beget that mighty being was the source of the begotten mighty being and He was a mighty being also. There is only one unbegotten 'mighty being' and only one begotten 'mighty being.' Right, JA?

What is the significance of that. We are told that the unbegotten 'mighty being' created us through the only begotten mighty being…so that makes them our creator. Now we can call them the unbegotten creator and begotten creator. Do they have a right to receive our devotion and allegience? Are they our only mighty beings? Or do you serve other mighty beings? If so, then you serve either a created mighty being or an imagined mighty being. If you serve a created mighty being or an imagined mighty being, then you are a fool. Obviously the true, and worthy mighty beings are the Father and the Son, one unbegotten and the other begotten. So, do you see that changing the word “God/god” to mighty one/person/being, doesn't change the message. There still is no one mightier than the Father and the Son. No other mighty ones have the deity nature…got it, JA!

[JustAskin]

Some time I think people deliberately confuse themselves.

LU , it means ANYONE … Spirit or Man… What are you thinking…. Nothing more – just that: “Anyone”.

Ahh…. I'm getting out of here – this forum is full of loose brain loonies ….

A Headmaster (God Almighty) is a TEACHER (Mighty One) as are the Teachers (Mighty ONES) that he is the Headmaster (Almighty God) over.
The Headmaster is a “God” among and over  the Teachers.
The head master is the source of Authority and Power in the School.

The Senior Head boy (Jesus) is also “Superior” to the other headboys (Disciples/Apostles) but the Senoir Headboy (Jesus) is also just a pupil/boy (Servant/Disciple –to the teachers) as the other Pupils/boys (Servants/Disciples).
The Senior headboy is a “God” among and over the other headboys and a ordinary boys but not the headmaster nor the other teachers.
The headboy is the -through-source of authority among the headboys. He is not the Source of authority but has the authority to exercise authority and power over all the other boys. His source of Power and authority is from the headmaster and it can be given and taken from him and he can willingly give it up but cannot retain it under his own volition but by the grace of the headmaster. Extend the analogy to include “earned the authority” and “until he bring the unruly school to order”!!

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 25 2010,16:58)

Some time I think people deliberately confuse themselves. LU , it means ANYONE … Spirit or Man… What are you thinking…. Nothing more – just that: “Anyone”. Ahh…. I'm getting out of here – this forum is full of loose brain loonies …. A Headmaster (God Almighty) is a TEACHER (Mighty One) as are the Teachers (Mighty ONES) that he is the Headmaster (Almighty God) over. The Headmaster is a “God” among and over  the Teachers. The Senior Head boy (Jesus) is also “Superior” to the other headboys (Disciples/Apostles) but the Senoir Headboy (Jesus) is also just a pupil/boy (Servant/Disciple –to the teachers) as the other Pupils/boys (Servants/Disciples). The Senior headboy is a “God” among and over the other headboys and a ordinary boys.

JA

you Wait a few years so they finish their doctors degree then they may understand it.

unless you recieve it from God you will never have it,it is God who gives understanding to those who love him.

Pierre

[JustAskin]

Pierre, Lu just made me mad!!!! No, sorry – I just made myself Mad over what LU is choking on – simple reality – How – Why??? because she has seen the truth and find she cannot bear it and must post some nonesense to try and refute a simple truth.

Not what I SAY – BUT what Reality and Truth says…

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 25 2010,07:05)

The NASB translates it as 'only begotten' which was gutsy on their part and I applaud them because I believe that it is true to the intent of the author.

Hi Kathi,

The JW's NWT also translates it as “only begotten god”. It's what the words actually say, so why not? The translations that bend over backwards to avoid actually saying “only begotten god” make themselves look foolish and biased, IMO.

mike

[mikeboll64]

And out of the 8 translations you posted Kathi, only 2 use the “monogenes huios” text.  

Of the 6 that use the “monogenes theos” text, isn't it interesting that only ONE of them translates the words as they were written……”only begotten god”?

mike

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike,
The difference between the NASB and the NWT is a capital 'G.' So the question is which one gives the the Son the same honor as the Father?

[Lightenup]

Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 24 2010,17:58)

Some time I think people deliberately confuse themselves. LU , it means ANYONE … Spirit or Man… What are you thinking…. Nothing more – just that: “Anyone”. Ahh…. I'm getting out of here – this forum is full of loose brain loonies …. A Headmaster (God Almighty) is a TEACHER (Mighty One) as are the Teachers (Mighty ONES) that he is the Headmaster (Almighty God) over. The Headmaster is a “God” among and over  the Teachers. The head master is the source of Authority and Power in the School. The Senior Head boy (Jesus) is also “Superior” to the other headboys (Disciples/Apostles) but the Senoir Headboy (Jesus) is also just a pupil/boy (Servant/Disciple –to the teachers) as the other Pupils/boys (Servants/Disciples). The Senior headboy is a “God” among and over the other headboys and a ordinary boys but not the headmaster nor the other teachers. The headboy is the -through-source of authority among the headboys. He is not the Source of authority but has the authority to exercise authority and power over all the other boys. His source of Power and authority is from the headmaster and it can be given and taken from him and he can willingly give it up but cannot retain it under his own volition but by the grace of the headmaster. Extend the analogy to include “earned the authority” and “until he bring the unruly school to order”!!

JA,
Yes, I think you have confused us all with that analogy. Perhaps you do need a break.

You seem to want to equate theos with a mighty one in authority. Well, that could apply to many. Therefore we must know who has the ultimate authority and that would be the Father and the Son. They are both YOUR ultimate authority and much, much more like savior, and creator, father, and brother, source, etc.

[JustAskin]

LU – you are completely lost in an earthbound view.

That is why you cannot understand what I am saying.

You are saying what I am saying but really have no idea OF WHAT you ARE ACTUALLY saying…

“GOD” is a word… can you get it… “G” “O” “D” is a word like any other word.
As sentient beings we attribute meaning to the Words that we create and use and learn.

The Meaning of the Word “GOD” is “One of Might and Power” – you seem incapable of understanding this simple concept.

This meaning is relative to a POSITION or Rank.

ALMIGHTY GOD is the ULTIMATE POWER and AUTHORITY – yes… Is that what you want to hear? Well, there, I've said it.

But you refuse refinement – Ok, if you feel so then do so BUT – do not contend with your betters – else you fall foul of your own childlike – and childish – sensibility.

Here is a call for wisdom – which you prove you do not have – Relativity also means that others can be “Gods” – “Mighty ONEs” (Do not look at the Capital or lowercase letter – this is purely for a later reason.

Right now you are drinking milk and cannot take to solid meat. But let me feed you a little to see if you are ready…

Moses is called “GOD” by God Almighty, YHVH by name. Why? Please just answer this elementary question.

[shimmer]

Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 25 2010,18:22)

“GOD” is a word… can you get it… “G” “O” “D” is a word like any other word.

That's true, Allah is Arabic for God,

But is it the same God ?

No. Because Allah [God] has no son, and Allah [God] says Jesus wasnt crucified, even though the Quran tries to say it is the same God.

So I finally see your point JustAskin, [took me a while]

THANKS.

[davidbfun]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 26 2010,03:35)

Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 25 2010,18:22) “GOD” is a word… can you get it… “G” “O” “D” is a word like any other word. That's true, Allah is Arabic for God, But is it the same God ? No. Because Allah [God] has no son, and Allah [God] says Jesus wasnt crucified, even though the Quran tries to say it is the same God. So I finally see your point JustAskin, [took me a while] THANKS.

Hi Shimmer,

You said:  

That's true, Allah is Arabic for God, But is it the same God ?

No. Because Allah [God] has no son, and Allah [God] says Jesus wasnt crucified, even though the Quran tries to say it is the same God.

ME:

This brings up a similar point:

If the Bible says that Jesus is the son of God and you believe in God, the Son, THEN that is not the same person, is it?

Son of God is FROM God….and not God whom he came from.

God, the son, is God.

“begotten God” is a misdirection….trying to make a reader believe the son is “God”, and God is begotten?; otherwise use the lower case g.
“begotten OF God” is succinct.
“begotten god” shows “god” not being “God”.

Theos is translated with G or g, depending on the translator.

The Professor

[shimmer]

Hi David,

I don't know, God is Spirit, God is love, God is a guiding power to those who believe, God is powerfull, God protects, God is the one true God YHVH, YAHSHUA means Yah- saves, these people can analyse whatever they want,

The power is what's important

” a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.”

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 25 2010,13:11)

Hi Mike, The difference between the NASB and the NWT is a capital 'G.'  So the question is which one gives the the Son the same honor as the Father?

Was there a capital “g” in the Greek text?  

The Father will share His glory with NO OTHER, Kathi…….that includes His Son.

The son has been given glory of his own, and the Father shares many things with His Son…….His glory is scripturally NOT one of them.

mike

[Author]

Posts