Before Abraham was, I am.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 22 2011,18:59)

mike do you know how to read the bible??? it has different context. mar 16:12 is different to fil 2:6 ignorant mike

Let's see, jammin,

Phil 2:6 NIV (Translated by over 100 TRINITARIAN scholars)
Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Mark 16:12  NIV
Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country.

Show me the “context” that makes “morphe” mean “nature” in Phil 2 while it means “form” in Mark 16.  Can you pinpoint that “context” for me, jammin?  Or is this discrepancy in context only something you must IMAGINE to FORCE Jesus into being God?

jammin, you signed your post “ignorant mike”.  Is that your real name?  Or were you attempting to call ME ignorant at the same time you were trying to show me how Jesus IS the God he is also the SON OF?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,20:28)

Does Hebrews 1:1 mention the angels?  No, but it would allow for it with the words 'in many ways,' right??  So, if that is true, then your argument about Heb 1:1 not mentioning the Son as one of the ways God spoke to the prophets doesn't mean He wasn't one of those who spoke to the prophets. So back to my question for you to answer: Did God speak to His prophets through His angels in the OT?  Yes or No.

YES, Kathi, God spoke to His prophets through angels.  And YES, this is allowed for by the words “in many ways”.

So MY question to YOU is:

If God spoke to any prophets through Jesus in the past, doesn't this PROVE that Jesus was just one of the many ANGELS through whom GOD spoke to HIS prophets?  YES or NO?

Now, is there any OT scripture where it is made CLEAR that Jesus was the ANGEL OF GOD doing the speaking to the prophet?  NO.   So you can THINK that it was sometimes Jesus if you want to, but remember that if it was Jesus at any time, then that only concludes that Jesus was one of the angels of his God.

And my main point (actually, jammin's point) remains the same.  Through all of these prophets and angels, one of whom might have been Jesus, there is still only ONE GOD who is doing the speaking THROUGH these agencies.

Agreed?

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,03:29)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 22 2011,18:59) mike do you know how to read the bible??? it has different context. mar 16:12 is different to fil 2:6 ignorant mike Let's see, jammin, Phil 2:6 NIV (Translated by over 100 TRINITARIAN scholars) Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, Mark 16:12  NIV Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. Show me the “context” that makes “morphe” mean “nature” in Phil 2 while it means “form” in Mark 16.  Can you pinpoint that “context” for me, jammin?  Or is this discrepancy in context only something you must IMAGINE to FORCE Jesus into being God? jammin, you signed your post “ignorant mike”.  Is that your real name?  Or were you attempting to call ME ignorant at the same time you were trying to show me how Jesus IS the God he is also the SON OF?

what do you want to see mike?? the word nature in phil 2:6??

here is your request mike
Philippians 2:6

Today's New International Version (TNIV)

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Philippians 2:6

Good News Translation (GNT)

6 He always had the nature of God,
but he did not think that by force he should try to remain[a] equal with God.

was mark 16:12 talking about GOD who took the form of a man??? or was talking about the resurrected christ mike???

was phil 2:6 talking about the resurrected christ or GOD who took the form of a man???

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 25 2011,17:42)

was phil 2:6 talking about the resurrected christ or GOD who took the form of a man?

Neither.  Phil 2 speaks of the resurrected Christ BEFORE he was sent BY HIS GOD AND OUR GOD into the world as a sacrificial Lamb that HIS GOD supplied for us.

He WAS in heaven with God.  Then emptied himself and WAS MADE into a human being.  Then died.  Then was raised again BY HIS OWN GOD to a spirit being ALONGSIDE HIS OWN GOD.

The passage has to do with us having the mindset to be willing to give up all the cushy pleasures we have for the benefit of others – just as Jesus gave up his cushy position next to HIS OWN GOD to come as a sacrifice for our sakes.

Now, weren't you about to show me how the “context” tells you one should be “nature” while the other should be “form”?  

[jammin]

cant you read the verse??? i showed you already phil 2: is a nature of GOD. but that mar 16:12 is not tlaking about GOD who took the form of a man. you need eyeglasses mike

now show me your translation equally spirit being in phil 2:6 hahahahahah

angels are also spirit being BUT THEY ARE NOT EQUAL WITH GOD! CHRIST IS EQUAL WITH GOD! PRAISE GOD!

show your word in phil 2:6 equally spirit being. im still waiting mike hahahahaha.

[jammin]

well i guess mike is having a hard time understanding what phil 2 says.
phil 2:1-11 talks about humility of christ. who being GOD or in very nature GOD did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing

see the humility of christ mike??? BEING GOD OR IN VERY NATURE GOD, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing

now let's examine mar 16:12
are we talking about GOD here who took the form of a man??? or are we talking about the resurrected christ here??? what is the meaning of form here in mark 16:12?? is it same in phil 2:6

Mark 16

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

Mark 16
News That Jesus Has Risen From Death
1 The next day after the Sabbath day, Mary Magdalene, Salome, and Mary the mother of James bought some sweet-smelling spices to put on Jesus’ body. 2 Very early on that day, the first day of the week, the women were going to the tomb. It was very early after sunrise. 3 The women said to each other, “There is a large stone covering the entrance of the tomb. Who will move the stone for us?”

4 Then the women looked and saw that the stone was moved. The stone was very large, but it was moved away from the entrance. 5 The women walked into the tomb and saw a young man there wearing a white robe. He was sitting on the right side of the tomb. The women were afraid.

6 But the man said, “Don’t be afraid. You are looking for Jesus from Nazareth, the one who was killed on a cross. He has risen from death! He is not here. Look, here is the place they put him when he was dead. 7 Now go and tell his followers. And be sure to tell Peter. Tell them, ‘Jesus is going into Galilee and will be there before you come. You will see him there, as he told you before.’”

8 The women were very afraid and confused. They left the tomb and ran away. They did not tell about what happened, because they were afraid. [a]
Some Followers See Jesus
9 Jesus rose from death early on the first day of the week. He appeared first to Mary Magdalene. One time in the past Jesus had forced seven demons out of Mary. 10 After Mary saw Jesus, she went and told his followers. They were very sad and were crying. 11 But Mary told them that Jesus was alive. She said that she had seen Jesus, but they did not believe her.

12 Later, Jesus appeared to two followers while they were walking in the country. But Jesus did not look the same as before he was killed. 13 These followers went back to the other followers and told them what happened. Again, the followers did not believe them.

see mike, now you understand the meaning of form in mark 16:12 and phil2:6

they have different context. the meaning of form in phil 2:6 is nature
while in mark 16:12, the meaning of form is jesus did not look the same as before he was killed. it was the ressurected christ!

THE FORM IN PHIL 2:6 IS DIFFERENT TO THE FORM IN MARK 16:12
MARK 16:12 IS NOT TALKING ABOUT NATURE
PHIL 2:6 TALKS ABOUT NATURE!

PRAISE GOD!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2011,01:08)

THE FORM IN PHIL 2:6 IS DIFFERENT TO THE FORM IN MARK 16:12 MARK 16:12 IS NOT TALKING ABOUT NATURE PHIL 2:6 TALKS ABOUT NATURE!

Yes, now I'm still waiting to see what PROOF you have for this. It is known that the Greek word “morphe” means “form”. Any lexicon will tell you this.

It is also a fact that the word is used only twice in scripture, once in Mark 16:12, where it is clear that the word refers to the “form”, or “outward appearence” of Jesus – just like the lexicons say the word means.

Now, tell me once again IN CLEAR, ENGLISH WORDS why it doesn't also mean “outward appearence” in Phil 2:6.

Also, while you're at it, explain to me again how God Himself could be said to have the nature OF God.

See that word “OF”, jammin? If something has the nature OF something else, then that first thing CANNOT POSSIBLY BE the second thing.

Let me try to put this within your mental abilities:
Jammin had the nature of Mike. That is a sensible sentence, because it speaks of TWO, one who had the nature OF the OTHER.

Jammin had the nature of Jammin. This is a nonsense sentence that you will never in your life read except for in this exercise. Because if Jammin IS Jammin, then he would not be said to have the nature OF Jammin, as if Jammin #1 is a separate person than Jammin #2. It would only work if there were TWO Jammins.

So jammin, does Phil 2 speak of the TWO Gods we have – one of whom had the nature OF the other one?

I've grown tired of your games, jammin. Let's get to the heart of our discussions:

1. Does God Almighty have a God of His own? YES or NO?

2. Can you show scripture where Jesus claims to be God Almighty? YES or NO?

[jammin]

the father called his SON, GOD!
phil 2:6 talks about nature. i show you the translation, now you show me in mark 16:12 that it talks about nature.
ill wait mike hahahahaha

you have many assingments mike

1. where is your translation equally spirit being in phil 2:6?
2: sons of GOD in job 1:6 refers to fallen angels. show me your translation mike.
3. nature in mark 16:12 , show me your translation mike hahahahah

[jammin]

you never showed satan called son of GOD,
read a verse frst mike
your understanding in job 1:6 is wrong hahahahaha.

sons of GOD there are talking to the divine angels. is satan divine mike? hahahahaha

[jammin]

mike , you agreed that we have the same nature.. hahahahhah
christ and GOD have the same nature mike. that's what the bible says. i know it's hard for you to accpt. but that's what the bible teach.. praise GOD!

[terraricca]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 22 2011,20:13)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2011,12:30) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 21 2011,21:29) who is christ for you terrarica? is he a man or GOD who took the form of a man? jammi Christ says ;he is the only one that came down from heaven , did he lied ?? Christ says that he was send down by his father did he lied ?? Christ said that he going back from were he came from ,heaven;did he lied ? Christ says that he recieved all his power from his father ;did he lied ? Paul one of Christ apostles says that Christ HIS the first of God creation ;did he lied ? the OT says that the first of God s creation was the one where all things were create after or by it ;are the scriptures lying ? John 1;1 says the the word was with God and in revelation 19 it says that the son = Christ and that his name is THE WORD OF GOD ; is that a lie ? please answer me ;I ate to believe in lies Pierre no no no no no .. except for col 1:15 what is your interpretation here??? it does not mean that christ is a creature. that's not what the bible says. you cant read that in col 1:15 it says the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION. the question here is what is the meaning of col 1:15. according to its context, christ is not CREATED BY GOD BUT SUPREME TO ALL CREATION. you cant read that christ is created by GOD in col 1:15. the ignorant and weak in faith are giving wrong meanings to the scriptures CHRIST RULES OVER EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN MADE!. AND IT'S ONE OF THE REASON WHY CHRIST IS GOD. HE IS NOT CREATED. HE IS A CREATOR. Hebrews 1:8-10 New Life Version (NLV) 8 But about His Son, He says, “O God, Your throne will last forever. Whatever You say in Your nation is right and good. 9 You have loved what is right. You have hated what is wrong. That is why God, Your God, has chosen You. He has poured over You the oil of joy more than over anyone else.” 10 He said also, “Lord, You made the earth in the beginning. You made the heavens with Your hands. now if you believe that christ is a creation according to col 1:15 (if that's what you believe), i tell now, you do not understand what the verse says. read carefully before making conclusions.

Jammin

Quote

it says the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION. the question here is what is the meaning of col 1:15. according to its context, christ is not CREATED BY GOD BUT SUPREME TO ALL CREATION. you cant read that christ is created by GOD in col 1:15. the ignorant and weak in faith are giving wrong meanings to the scriptures

you do not understand it ,

Christ is both the first of creation and got supremacy because he is the first in everything ,

Pierre

[jammin]

what is the meaning of firstborn of all creation?? the meaning for you terrarica is first creation???
then give me a translation . i dont need your OWN EXPLANATION.
GIVE ME A TRANSLATION THAT SAYS FIRST CREATION. ill wait hahahahahaha

[jammin]

the bible says, firstborn of all creation means HE RANKS HIGHER!

GIVE ME YOUR TRANSLATION FIRST CREATION TERRARICA.. HAHAHAHAHA

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2011,19:18)

you have many assingments mike 1. where is your translation equally spirit being in phil 2:6? 2: sons of GOD in job 1:6 refers to fallen angels. show me your translation mike. 3. nature in mark 16:12 , show me your translation mike

jammin,

Do you really think that is the way one comes to scriptural truth?  By finding a translation somewhere that says “nature”?  And forgetting all the other ones that say “form”?  

Boy, you sure showed me!      

I've answered about Satan being son of God in the other thread.

In fact, I've addressed all of your points.  It is now YOUR TURN:

1.  Does God Almighty have a God of His own?  YES or NO?

2.  Can you show scripture where Jesus claims to be God Almighty?  YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2011,19:43)

the bible says, firstborn of all creation means HE RANKS HIGHER!

Where does the Bible say that, jammin?

Use your head. The firstborn of the flock has to be a member of the flock. The firstborn of the herd has to be a member of the herd. The firstborn of creation has to be a member of creation.

[mikeboll64]

Kathi? Page 17, 2nd post?

[jammin]

if i read mike that it means he ranks higher, will you accept that you are a false teacher???

[mikeboll64]

Only if you “read” it from actual Greek words, and not from some Bible trying to FORCE its version of the “truth” on us.

The Greek words are “prototokos pasa ktisis”. They LITERALLY mean “firstborn of all creation” or “firstborn of every creature”.

The “of” comes from the fact that “pas” and “ktisis” are written in the Greek genitive form.

[jammin]

even if you read that in any language you want, if you DONT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF, IT'S USELESS!
praise GOD! mike does not want to read me the meaning of firstborn of all creation.
the bible says he ranks higher! but mike is scared to be given the title FALSE TEACHER HAHAHAHAH
now your first creation interpretation, where can you find that in the bible??? hahahahahah

[mikeboll64]

Don't you have a couple of questions waiting for you, jammin?

1. Can you show a scripture where Jesus himself claims that he is God Almighty?

2. Does God Almighty have a God of His own?

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