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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2012,10:51) Hi T8,
Yes he did speak for himself as when he said he was thirsty.
But the words from God in him burned themselves into the minds of his apostles and they wrote them down.
Yes that is true and we all agree with that.So was Paul wrong when he said in Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
or in Philippians 2:5-9
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,Was John wrong when he said in John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
or in John 3:12-15
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.Was Jesus wrong when he said in John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
or in Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”These are all scriptures Nick.
I choose to believe them.
Since when does scripture repeat an idea over and over again and yet is wrong. We are not talking about a few difficult scriptures that have multiple meanings, but clear teaching from many different angles that say that Jesus was with the Father (in another form) before the world began. Whether that is that God made all things through him, or that he returned to the glory that he had with God before the world began, you at least have to admit that it requires a huge up hill battle to try and dispense with all scriptures that clearly teach or by indirect reference show that he existed with the Father before all things, including all reference of him coming from Heaven.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2012,11:31) Hi T8,
The bread of life is the Word of God.
Jesus CHRIST is the Word.He spoke the words of God by the Spirit
And the Word was WITH God in the beginning.
The first post is a list of various scriptures that touch on Jesus' pre-existence.
t8, you very well could be right. Yet they new He was claiming something greater then Himself. He was a man of about 30+-. And yet He said before Abraham was He was.
In light of this and the other scriptures, I believe that God meant exactly what He said through Jesus. 'I am' meaning GOD.
I believe the problem is that in your doctrine, you have Jesus as a little god.
God Bless
MarlinQuote 1. Why would God tell the Pharisees that HE existed before Abraham? Didn't they already know this? 
2. If it was GOD speaking through JESUS, then there are TWO mentioned, only ONE of whom was GOD.
MikeB, These are not problems for me, they are problems for you and your doctrine. I know who Jesus is, I don't have a problem with the scripture at all.
I hope you figure it out.
Marlin
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 15 2012,23:39) Quote 1. Why would God tell the Pharisees that HE existed before Abraham? Didn't they already know this? 2. If it was GOD speaking through JESUS, then there are TWO mentioned, only ONE of whom was GOD.
MikeB, These are not problems for me, they are problems for you and your doctrine. I know who Jesus is, I don't have a problem with the scripture at all.
I hope you figure it out.
Marlin
Mike,I think this setling all things between Marlin and you
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2012,23:53) Hi Guys,
God will have to show you.
Show what nick your truth or scriptures truth that only a few can understand,??Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2012,00:07) Hi T,
Whatever you can absorb you will.
Take your time.
NickYou as well take your time
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2012,23:44) Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 15 2012,23:39) Quote 1. Why would God tell the Pharisees that HE existed before Abraham? Didn't they already know this? 2. If it was GOD speaking through JESUS, then there are TWO mentioned, only ONE of whom was GOD.
MikeB, These are not problems for me, they are problems for you and your doctrine. I know who Jesus is, I don't have a problem with the scripture at all.
I hope you figure it out.
Marlin
Mike,I think this setling all things between Marlin and you
I think you're right, Pierre. And when Nick said, “God will have to show you”, I think he was doing the same.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 09 2011,23:20) When Jesus said “I am”, what he said was harmless and common words that others also uttered.
The only problem the Pharisees had was that Jesus was saying he was before their so-called father Abraham. It was this that offended them. I am simply means I exist. Even in English we have that famous quote: “I think therefore I am”. Do we equate that with claiming to be God? Of course not. And neither did they.Further, “I am” is a translation from Greek words “ego eimi”. Is the mere utterance of “ego eimi” a blasphemy? Does the use of “ego eimi” automatically identify the speaker as Yahweh, the I AM? In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, “Ego eimi Gabriel.” In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Jesus said, “Ego eimi.” In Acts 10:21, Peter said, “Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek.” Obviously, the mere use of “ego eimi” does not equate one to the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14.
Jesus used the phrase “ego eimi” at least twenty times and yet, in only one instance did the Jews seek to stone him (John 8:58). Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” to a large crowd, in John.6:35-48, yet no one opposed him. In verse 41, the Jews murmured because he said, “I am (ego eimi) the bread which came down from heaven.” But in verse 42, the Jews questioned only the phrase, “I came down from heaven” and ignored “ego eimi.” The same is true of verses 51 & 52.
Your points do seem to be ignored by trinitarians.The enemies of Jesus Christ had no desire to acknowledge Jesus Christ for who he claimed to be.
They were not willing to admit that all the works that he did showed him to be the messiah foretold from way before Abraham.
Abraham was not foretold of by God.
But there is a foretelling by God of a the coming seed of the woman way back in Genesis 3:15
Before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ was already a given.
They exalted Abraham over the messiah standing right in front of them.
barley
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