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Hi Jodi,
Why do you quote Jesus when you do not believe what he says?
He taught of the devil and evil spirits.Hi Jodi,
Was Jesus wrong or just ignorant compared with folk like you when he taught of the dominion of darkness?Hi jodi,
We follow Jesus and learn also from the OT.
His teachings oppose yours and we believe he spoke the words of God.
Do you?To not believe in Satan as a being is the biggest lie ever told, and Satan is laughing and enjoying every Human, that does not believe in Him. Nick is right cause He believes in plain Scripture and not in a persons interpretation of.
Prace and Love IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2009,09:05) Hi Jodi,
Why do you quote Jesus when you do not believe what he says?
He taught of the devil and evil spirits.
I don't define them as you do, but I have certainly shown that they exist, and I have certainly shown how I understand Jesus to define them.I gave an example earlier of Jesus speaking to an evil spirit. He said, “”Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!”
The spirit was a spirit of deafness and dumbness, TWO things of which God says He inflicts upon people.
Can you get that Nick, the spirit wasn't said to be an evil rebel being causing anyone to sin, it was a spirit of deafness and dumbness.
Nick if your going to converse with me the least you could do is answer my questions for a change, your rather quite rude and selfish in that manner. As well, you ought to be respectful enough to read my posts more thoroughly, that way you won't continually be slandering what I say.
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Nick why do you have such a hard time understanding scripture?
The bible is constantly showing that it is man's own desires aroused by his flesh that cause him to sin. The desires of our father we are told we want to do. What desires does man want to do….his own that spring from his carnal nature.
Man follows the desires of his carnal nature…our father the devil is our carnal nature. God is the Father of the Spirit. First comes the natural then the spiritual. As the body is sown in corruption it will be raised in incorruption.
1Jo 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
Can you see what the scriptures are saying here Nick? The devil is to follow your own nature, Cain was of the wicked one because his OWN works were evil.
Our own minds deceive us slandering God, our nature tells us to serve our flesh in order to receive life, but the truth is we must serve God in order to receive life.
We are all born under this slanderer this devil, thankfully we will all be reborn into God's Spirit as well.
Here we see Jesus teaching that it is man's own flesh acting as his adversary,
Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Here we see that it is because of something within man himself-
Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Let's look at Jesus's words again here keeping in mind what he said in Mark 7,
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So when we add Jesus's own words together we get a clear picture as to the DEFINITION of what Devil is. It is to follow and serve your own desires, instead of serving God.
Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
Mt 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Judas from within his own heart following his flesh and carnal desires he betrayed Jesus. Peter, likewise having within himself man's mind of carnal nature he was a Satan.
What does scripture show is the dominion of darkness-
Mt 6:23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Where does Jesus say man's evil deeds come from? From within his own heart, therefore that is obviously where we find the dominion of darkness.
Nick don't pass over reading the following scripture and please think about what it says.
Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Once again, Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
The bible clearly shows us that Jesus teaches that the dominion of where darkness dwells is strictly within man and comes from his carnal nature.
Hi Jodi,
Indeed the kingdom of darkness extends to the vessel of man and we see that fruit everywhere.
Jesus drove out the inhabitants and cleansed those vessels to hold the treasure of the Spirit.
The whited sepulchres become cleansed cups even temples for our living God to dwell in.Quote (Cindy @ May 11 2009,10:38) To not believe in Satan as a being is the biggest lie ever told, and Satan is laughing and enjoying every Human, that does not believe in Him. Nick is right cause He believes in plain Scripture and not in a persons interpretation of.
Prace and Love Irene
Plane Scripture HUH?Plain scriptures says satan is a man having in mind the things of men.
Plain scripture refers to both the devil and satan directly as being men and the dragon of which is said to be the devil and satan, is also directly said to be men.
There is not ONE instance in the bible where satan or the devil is directly linked to any sort of supernatural rebel spirit.
You and Georg IMO infer it to mean such do to your indoctrinization.
Please if you believe so then prove it through direct scriptures.
IMO you actually have to look OUTSIDE the bible to see such a belief as yours. This is why Irene when you and Georg have tried explaining your belief you've had to add a story to Genesis 6 about fallen angels that does not exist in the text, and you've had to add and distort Revelation 12.
What happens when you put
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
together with
Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
and also with
James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
and this-
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Let's not forget-
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
And finally,
Jas 3:16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
You SHOULD BE ABLE to perceive what the scriptures plainly show, that the carnal mind is the ADVERSARY, thus making why JESUS called Peter satan for having in mind the things of men, make complete and utter sense.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2009,11:36) Hi Jodi,
Indeed the kingdom of darkness extends to the vessel of man and we see that fruit everywhere.
Jesus drove out the inhabitants and cleansed those vessels to hold the treasure of the Spirit.
The whited sepulchres become cleansed cups even temples for our living God to dwell in.
Hey Nick there is one problem….Jesus did not DRIVE out SIN, or spiritual influencers of sin. Jesus healed people who were mad, blind, deaf, and dumb because of the evil spirits. He cleansed them from possessing physical and mental inflictions.
Hi Jodi,
Sin in the flesh indeed was driven out.Rom7
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
He healed and drove our evil spirits.Jesus Christ died for our sins, and he died for all people to be resurrected.
To have the wisdom and understanding of God, is to firmly believe that Jesus, through God's work, kept Jesus from sin and worked in him a Spirit of perfection. To have wisdom and understanding is to firmly believe that as God was able to raise Jesus from the dead, He will raise us from the dead also.
When a man lives according to his carnal nature he is letting the fear of death rule over him, with his mind in a state of servitude to the flesh for the purpose of survival. This is what it means to be in the flesh and to live according to the flesh. Knowing firmly however that we have eternal life is the beginning of the work of the Spirit for it kills the desires of the flesh and causes us not to care about this life but the life of the resurrection.
This is why we see Paul say 'oh wretched body who will deliver me from this body of death.' The body of death is what draws the carnal nature to sin. Even though our minds desire to live by the Spirit until the resurrection man still has to live with a body that feels pain and suffering, and still by it's nature has a strong desire to fulfill it's instincts of survival.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
Ro 8:13For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
We must live by God's wisdom and understanding to the best of our ability always striving to use it against our flesh. We must work through God's Spirit to put to death the deeds of the body. So I don't see it as Jesus drove away our evil spirits and our sins and that was that. As long as we still have a corruptible body the evil spirits linger in us, not as rebel supernatural spirits possessing us but as desires of our carnal nature.
Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
In the text you gave Nick, sorry, I really don't see anything there talking about Jesus healing or driving out spirits, could you elaborate on your understanding a little more please?
Jesus is our example on how to deny the flesh and live by God's Spirit. If we hold to the word of God, believing in our own resurrection and the great rewards to come, and strive to live by the righteous characters of the Spirit such as patience and self control, we should be able to keep a good handle on our flesh.
In the Gospels when Jesus healed people who were possessed by the evil spirits of madness and the evil spirits of dumbness, and the evil spirits of deafness and the evil spirits of blindness….it is NOT said that he was healing them as well from sins. The text shows specifically that the evil spirits are being healed along side sicknesses, diseases, afflictions and infirmities. Nothing is said about healing people from sins, wickedness, lust, evil desire, wrongdoing. I believe this distinction is crucial for understanding the truth. The evil spirits that Jesus healed exists in the category of Medical Conditions!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2009,15:11) Hi Jodi,
So Jesus needs you as an interpreter?
Nick could you tell me what I said SPECIFICALLY that drew you to say such a thing? That would be much appreciated!Hi Jodi,
We can read the teachings of the Master for ourselves.
Your additional insights are less helpfulWell Nick, you do have the right to your own opinion.
Since it came from you, luckily it didn't hurt my feelings.
Hi Jodi,
Sit at the feet of the Master and learn from him first.
Let all flesh be silent as God speaks through him.Hi Nick,
Job 5:6 For affliction does not come from the dust, Nor does trouble spring from the ground; 7 Yet man is born to trouble, As the sparks fly upward. 8 “But as for me, I would seek God, And to God I would commit my cause– 9 Who does great things, and unsearchable, Marvelous things without number. 10 He gives rain on the earth, And sends waters on the fields. 11 He sets on high those who are lowly, And those who mourn are lifted to safety.
12 He frustrates the devices of the crafty, So that their hands cannot carry out their plans. 13 He catches the wise in their own craftiness, And the counsel of the cunning comes quickly upon them. 14 They meet with darkness in the daytime, And grope at noontime as in the night. 15 But He saves the needy from the sword, From the mouth of the mighty, And from their hand. 16 So the poor have hope, And injustice shuts her mouth.
Hi Jodi,
Indeed since submitting to the god of this world in Eden man has been big trouble.
Battling to manage impossible problems within and without.
He needs rescueHi Nick,
and how would you define the god of this world exactly?
Philippians 3:17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame–who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
How would you define what's meant by, “whose god is their belly”?
1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
I see a two party here NOT a three, it's just man and his mind and God and His. Notice the spirit of the world is the spirit of man. The nature of man is foolish and spiritually discerned. Notice it is man's wisdom that is in error, not some invisible influencing rebel spirit's wisdom.
Nick Can I give you some advice, I have read some of the Post's from the very beginning and you (plural) do not come to any agreement. All you do is go back and forth and there is no good fruit in that. IMO you both should quit.
In our Savior's Love and Peace IreneJodi……….you have it right sis, There is no evil demons going around jumping in and out of people, These doctrines of Demons are products of the apostatized Churches. And if recieved into ones thinking they cause phobias of all kinds these are the plagues people get who buy into these false teachings. Man is the problem and is the adversary of GOD, he is the SATAN, not some unseen being going around jumping in and out of people. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
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