Beelzebub and demons

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,10:50)

Quote (kerwin @ July 18 2012,01:45)

David,

You are most likely correct as the Evil One is called by the name “Satanas” in Luke 11:18. He also seems to be called Beelzeboul who originally was Lord of the high places; but later was reduced to Lord of the flies. Daemons appear to be the flies according to Luke 11:18.

This site has much information about Beelzebul from noted commentators.

Here is part of what Barnes says about it:
Baal-zebub – literally, “Lord (i. e., averter) of flies.” Flies in the East constitute one of the most terrible of plages Psalm 105:31; Exodus 8:24; and Orientals would be as likely to have a “god of flies” as a god of storm and thunder.

From Clarke:
Go, inquire of Baal-zebub – Literally, the fly-god, or master of flies. The Septuagint has βααλ μυιαν, Baal the fly. He was the tutelary god of Ekron, and probably was used at first as a kind of telesm, to drive away flies.

From Gill:
…..the Cyreneans, a people of Lybia, worshipped the god Achor, which seems to be a corruption of the word Ekron, because he freed them from flies, after they had been infested with a pestilence through them; and Ekron being a place near the sea, and both hot and moist, might be much infested with those creatures.

From Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament:
The latter observes that “these (the flies), which are governed in their coming and going by all the conditions of the weather, are apparently endowed with prophetic power themselves.” This explains the fact that a special power of prophecy was attributed to this god.

(Note: The later Jews altered the name Beelzebub into Βεελζεβούλ, i.e., probably lord of the (heavenly) dwelling, as a name given to the ἄρχων τῶν δαιμονίων (Matthew 10:25, etc.); and the later Rabbins finally, by changing זבוּל בּעל into זבל בּעל, made a fly-god into a dung-god, to express in the most intense form their abomination of idolatry.

Mike………..Question is, is there really a God of the “FLIES” or Not : answerer, Not no such “GOD” Exists, Just those insects doing what they were created by the “ONLY GOD” to do. The “GOD of the Flies” is the one and only true God. Creating a Different God was only what was in the minds of those “Ignorant” “Superstitious” People. There is no GOD of anything except the one and ONLY “TRUE” GOD. He alone is GOD and there is No other> All this garbage can be easily cleared up by Just Believing what GOD Yahweh and Jesus said themselves said.

thou art the “ONLY” (TRUE) God All the other are not TRUE GOD”S Just as Jesus said. IMO

July 19, 2012 at 2:56 pm#306389

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ July 19 2012,23:30)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2012,01:16)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2012,00:36)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 16 2012,10:18)

Terricca…………..Satan is from the Hebrew word “ha-satan” and is translated in Greek as Diablo or DEVIL , as i understand it and they are the Same in meaning, and that can be anyone, even PETER was, Jesus called HIM SATAN> The word diabolical (deceitfully wicked ) comes from it. You are confusing Spirits with Person and Beings as Mike does also. You pitting God the Fathers Kingdom against a “individual” (person) call Satan is false . The word Satan means (ADVERSARY) and anyone with that Spirit working deception in him or her is a SATAN Just as Peter was called by Jesus. You flaunt yourself here as believing the bible and scripture but yet you do not believe what Jesus said about Peter > How do you reconcile that with you words Pierre?

peace and love to you and yours Pierre………………………………………………………………..gene

Gene

its all amount to this ;

if we holding in our hand a bible ,then we have all the truth of God we need,so the question is not that we do not have it BUT DO WE BELIEVE IT .

Terricca………..Then why don't people “BELIEVE” Jesus called PETER A SATAN then? Jesus was not talking to some elusive unseen Satan or Devil “Being” that was present there with Peter He was Plainly talking to Peter Himself. So the question is indeed do they “REALLY” believe Jesus?

But becasue they have a false preconceptions about a SATAN “BEING” Going around jumping in and out of People, they deny Jesus really did mean PETER was a SATAN “BEING” at the time and under the circumstances that then existed.

I believe from this and others scriptures anyone can be a Satan and we all have at time be a Satan Just as Peter was also at that particulate time when Jesus confronted him.

Jesus told the Pharisees they did the deed of “THEIR” Father the DEVIL or SATAN, Now does that also mean that a “BEING” call a Devil or SATAN Person “REALLY” Fathered those Pharisee did a SATAN “BEING” Have SEX with their Mothers? Obsessively Not>

Jesus was not referencing any thing other then their Behavior and they were acting as adversaries of Him and God the Father. They themselves were the Devils and Satan's Jesus was talking about. The Spirit (intellect) of an adversary can exist in anyone and must be mastered even as Jesus mastered “IT” . Notice i said “IT” not a “PERSON” but and “IT” or “SPIRIT” . Spirits are not People or Beings they are what is (IN) People or Beings. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………gene

Gene B.

You have to address this scripture; it is in red letterings(jesus speaking).And dont say that this was added on by such and such later in time.

Luke 10:18. And he said unto them; I BEHELD SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN.

wakeup.

Wakeup……..Where and what did Jesus mean by “HEAVEN”, Was it a Physical location or a Place in standing in the Mind of Jesus and Others. And Jesus Mastered (IT) a SPIRIT that was (IN) his Mind, Not a Physical Person falling from the Sky , but from the High Place in His Mind. Another words Jesus Masted (IT), this Spirit of an adversary, and It fell from his Mind Like Lighting (suddenly). We all must learn to Master (IT), this Spirit (intellect) even as Jesus Did.

Mixing Physical thing with SPIRITUAL things cause a lot of confusion her and in religions. While Spiritual things can be compared to Physical thing through Metaphors and Symbolisms , Parables, Proverbs, Personifications and so forth, to give understandings by comparisons they are not LITERAL But are used to Hide or reveal Spiritual Things.

Many things in scripture can not be taken “LITERALLY” There is no SATAN “BEING” there is a SPIRIT of and Adversary that work in the Heart and Minds of all Men and Women and Must be Mastered or they will continue to Sin. Jesus Mastered (IT) and It fell from Him quickly like Lightning.

Jesus Never Sinned, But he was tempted in all Manner by that Same Adversarial Spirit that was Working (IN) Him but He “Mastered” (IT) By the word and Power of GOD (IN) Him. We Must come to that Level also in order to quite Sinning to. But until we do we thanks to God are under his grace. WE must Grow in GRACE “AND” KNOWLEDGE. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene

July 19, 2012 at 4:40 pm#306392

Ed J

Participant

Hi Gene,

Are you suggesting that Job asked YHVH to create problems for himself?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 19, 2012 at 7:53 pm#306398

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2012,08:31)

Creating a Different God was only what was in the minds of those “Ignorant” “Superstitious” People.

Gene,

You cannot believe that Jehovah is the God OF gods unless you also believe that other, lesser gods exist. You cannot believe that Jehovah is the MOST HIGH God unless you also believe that other, lesser gods exist.

But that discussion is for a different thread.

July 19, 2012 at 11:20 pm#306410

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2012,01:56)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 19 2012,23:30)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2012,01:16)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2012,00:36)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 16 2012,10:18)

peace and love to you and yours Pierre………………………………………………………………..gene

Gene

its all amount to this ;

if we holding in our hand a bible ,then we have all the truth of God we need,so the question is not that we do not have it BUT DO WE BELIEVE IT .

I believe from this and others scriptures anyone can be a Satan and we all have at time be a Satan Just as Peter was also at that particulate time when Jesus confronted him.

peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………gene

Gene B.

You have to address this scripture; it is in red letterings(jesus speaking).And dont say that this was added on by such and such later in time.

Luke 10:18. And he said unto them; I BEHELD SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN.

wakeup.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene

Gene B.

When Jesus said I am that bread from heaven,he means heaven; where his father is.
heaven is never interpreted as THE HUMAN MIND.

Whats next?

wakeup.

July 20, 2012 at 2:46 pm#306456

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2012,06:53)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2012,08:31)

Creating a Different God was only what was in the minds of those “Ignorant” “Superstitious” People.

Gene,

But that discussion is for a different thread.

Mike………Do you believe Jesus or Not. for thou art the “ONLY” “TRUE” God. What [part of “ONLY” , you fail to understand Mike. If I says, this is the “ONLY ONE”, then that means there is no other and if I say the words ” ONLY TRUE” One, i am also saying everything else is a false one

Why can't you understand that Mike, there is not other God that is a “TRUE” GOD, Only One exists , I have Posted Scriptures where GOD HIMSELF said the same thing that he himslef LOOKED for another God and Found NONE

Mike its not just me you are not only disagreeing with Me , but Jesus and God the Father and as well as the Apostle Paul who said though there be “so-called” God many , but unto us there is but ONLY ONE GOD.

peace and love to you and your……………………………………..gene

July 20, 2012 at 7:40 pm#306461

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 21 2012,01:46)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2012,06:53)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2012,08:31)

Creating a Different God was only what was in the minds of those “Ignorant” “Superstitious” People.

Gene,

But that discussion is for a different thread.

peace and love to you and your……………………………………..gene

Gene B.

The word that was made flesh: God has crowned him and called him GOD; BUT THEN HE SAYS;''YOUR GOD HAS MADE YOU SO''.
Hebrews1.

wakeup.

July 20, 2012 at 9:04 pm#306471

Participant

To all,

Here are the words, in context, that some here seek to understand.

Luke 10
King James Version (KJV)

17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

July 20, 2012 at 9:22 pm#306474

Participant

To all,

Here is a source that speaks of daemons in the Greek myths.

Why do you think God chose to use a term from the lies of men?

July 20, 2012 at 11:26 pm#306489

Blocked

I'm with you on this one, Kerwin. Demons are the minions of the Devil. They are angels who follow Satan instead of God.

July 20, 2012 at 11:32 pm#306490

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2012,08:46)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2012,06:53)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2012,08:31)

Creating a Different God was only what was in the minds of those “Ignorant” “Superstitious” People.

Gene,

But that discussion is for a different thread.

peace and love to you and your……………………………………..gene

1. Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

2. Isaiah 45:21
And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

3. Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ

A. Gene, how can #3 say Jesus is the savior we await when Jehovah said there WERE NO OTHER saviors?

B. What about Wakeup's post, where he points out that Jesus is indeed called a god? Is your Lord a “false god”, Gene?

C. Since Jehovah is the God of gods, who are these other gods that Jehovah is the God of, Gene?

D. Paul never uses the phrase “so-called gods”, Gene. Paul says there are THOSE CALLED GODS, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there ARE many gods. Gene, who are some of these other gods in heaven?

July 20, 2012 at 11:42 pm#306491

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,05:26)

I'm with you on this one, Kerwin. Demons are the minions of the Devil. They are angels who follow Satan instead of God.

Mike,

I am not sure about demons being fallen angels as I know no scripture that either explicitly states that or infers it. A circumstantial case can be made by the fact Satan, a fallen angel, is credited with having the beguiling ability of the “serpents” and the harming ability of the “scorpions”.

July 21, 2012 at 1:07 am#306494

Blocked

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I believe the word “daemon” refers to these angels of Satan.

July 21, 2012 at 12:11 pm#306522

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,12:07)

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I believe the word “daemon” refers to these angels of Satan.

Hi MikeB.

lucifer(satan) and his angels are the fallen angels.

In the book of enoch;he made it clear who the evil spirits are.
When the sons of God(the now fallen angels interfered with the women and have children with them;they became giants.
And when they died;young and old,their spirits are not accepted in heaven,they are left roaming around on earth:

And they are the ones causing problems here on earth.
Some are possessing humans,and some causing fights and accidents, and huantings.(all evil spirits).
Dont forget,some are small children(male /female),some babies,and some horrible looking giants.These creatures seems to be lower than the fallen angels in status.
The femals are called –sirens–.

wakeup.

July 21, 2012 at 2:02 pm#306528

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,10:32)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2012,08:46)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2012,06:53)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2012,08:31)

Creating a Different God was only what was in the minds of those “Ignorant” “Superstitious” People.

Gene,

But that discussion is for a different thread.

peace and love to you and your……………………………………..gene

1. Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

2. Isaiah 45:21
And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

3. Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ

A. Gene, how can #3 say Jesus is the savior we await when Jehovah said there WERE NO OTHER saviors?

B. What about Wakeup's post, where he points out that Jesus is indeed called a god? Is your Lord a “false god”, Gene?

C. Since Jehovah is the God of gods, who are these other gods that Jehovah is the God of, Gene?

Mike………..Here is your answer.

“the son of Man can do “nothing” of “himself” the Father who is 'in” Me “HE” does the works.

If you understood that God is a Spirit and was indeed “IN” Jesus then you would understand it was God the Father doing the Salvation of not only Jesus but us all. You still do not seem to believe that God was “TRULY” (IN) Jesus. God the Father is the “ONLY true GOD and the ONLY True Savior, it makes no difference who he does it through. it still is his work that he is doing> If you could understand what a Spirit (IS) this would make sense to you brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

July 21, 2012 at 2:21 pm#306529

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ July 21 2012,23:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,12:07)

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I believe the word “daemon” refers to these angels of Satan.

Hi MikeB.

lucifer(satan) and his angels are the fallen angels.

wakeup.

Wakeup……………Spirits are not “BEINGS” they are what is (IN) Beings. Spirit are (intellects) that exist in all life forms on this earth and in heaven they are tyes and Kind of cognate thoughts and cause “Beings” they are in to effected from their influences. There are good and evil , clean and unclean spirits they are what life is. They are expressed by words. Need Proof?

The “WORDS” I am telling you “ARE” Spirit “AND” Life. Notice what Jesus said , Spirit is “BOTH” Words and LIFE , why because our words are the expression of our LIVES> They come from our “INTELLECTS” and are Produced by the type or kind of Spirit in us. If the Spirit is unclean then you words will be unclean if that spirit is clean then your words will be clean, it all depends on what Spirit is working (in) you. If it is the Holy Spirit from GOD then you will speak and act like God who (IN) you, why?, becasue God is also a Spirit. The Key is to come to understand what a Spirit really (IS)> IMO

July 21, 2012 at 5:13 pm#306544

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 21 2012,08:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,10:32)

Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ

Mike………..Here is your answer.

“the son of Man can do “nothing” of “himself” the Father who is 'in” Me “HE” does the works.

And what did Paul say, Gene? Did he say “we eagerly await a Savior – the Father in Christ”? Or did he say the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Savior we await?

Which one?

Nehemiah 9:27
So you handed them over to their enemies, who oppressed them. But when they were oppressed they cried out to you. From heaven you heard them, and in your great compassion you gave them saviors, who rescued them from the hand of their enemies.

Did Jehovah send Himself? Or did He send OTHER saviors?

July 21, 2012 at 5:27 pm#306546

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ July 21 2012,06:11)

Hi MikeB.

lucifer(satan) and his angels are the fallen angels.

Hi Wakeup,

So you think that “demons” are the spirits of the offspring produced when angels mated with human women (since their flesh died along with everything else in the flood)? That could very well be. But since we know Beelzebul (Satan) is the leader of the demons, and we know that he is also the leader of the third of God's angels who chose to follow him, could it be that both of these groups of spirit beings are included in the word “demons”?

On a side note, I don't remember seeing the word “sirens” in Enoch when I read it. Nor am I sure how you come to the conclusion that Satan's name is “Lucifer”. Please explain.

July 21, 2012 at 9:36 pm#306570

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 22 2012,01:21)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 21 2012,23:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 21 2012,12:07)

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I believe the word “daemon” refers to these angels of Satan.

Hi MikeB.

lucifer(satan) and his angels are the fallen angels.

wakeup.

GeneB.

Jesus said: ''the WORDS that I speak to you they are spirit.
yes; his word is spirit; it is his word that is going to do the judging; his word also created all things.(we can not instantly create with our words, only God can).

When he comes again for the second time;he will have a sword in his mouth. with his mouth he will destroy.

In our words there is power also,for we are created in the image of God.
We can make some people happy with our words,or we can make some people sad with our words,or we can make people angree with our words.

But loud noice coming out of a loudspeaker can also make people angree. This does not mean that noice is a spirit?
Our words are not spirits,but it has an effect on people.

Adam and eve;they were clean and and close to God;untill some outsider came and interfere.
This outsider was not inside Eve, but it came from outside IN Eve's mind, and it stayed there from generation to generation to now. And we as Gods children must learn to leave it out of our minds.

My children; come out of the world,be ye not yoked with the world. Come out of babylon,be ye separate.
The spirit of this world is evil,it has satans mind set.
Adopt Gods mind set.

wakeup.

July 22, 2012 at 12:48 am#306599