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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2012,08:25) They all want to live in a BODY in order to animate it.
Once again Gene,If spirit #49582 WANTS to live in a body, then that spirit is a BEING, for only sentient BEINGS can want things.
If spirit #958473 DESIRES to make me do evil, then that spirit is a BEING, for only sentient BEINGS can DESIRE things.
If spirit #5748505 BEGS for Jesus to send him into some pigs, then that spirit is a BEING, for only sentient BEINGS have their own wills which they are willing to beg to have done.
Gene;
Quote Kerwin……… Yes i have ,and believe the big problem Here is not understand what a SPIRIT (IS) . The “Spirit” of an Adversary is not a Person of any Kind it is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can be in anyone yes even PETER and the PHARISEES . Spirit is Spiirt and a Person or “BEING” is quite another. Spirits are what makes up the Person and the Person or BEING is what has the Spirits (IN) them . Persons are “LIVING SOUL” who Have SPIRIT Producing LIFE (IN) them. No scripture say Satan is a fallen angel of any kind If there is please produce it, i have not ever seen that as i recall> peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………….gene
Jesus speaks of two Adversaries; one that is called Beelzebub and the other who is called a demon. The spirit of both is adversarial and so they are Adversaries. The demons, like their King, live in people through their sinful spirits. When Jehovah hands a person over to a demon because of their unrepentant ways; they are said to own that person.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,11:01) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2012,08:25) They all want to live in a BODY in order to animate it.
Once again Gene,If spirit #49582 WANTS to live in a body, then that spirit is a BEING, for only sentient BEINGS can want things.
If spirit #958473 DESIRES to make me do evil, then that spirit is a BEING, for only sentient BEINGS can DESIRE things.
If spirit #5748505 BEGS for Jesus to send him into some pigs, then that spirit is a BEING, for only sentient BEINGS have their own wills which they are willing to beg to have done.
Mike………this is where You and I greately disagree, A spirit is not a Being at all (IT) is a ASPECT of a Being, all Physical “BEINGS” are controlled by Spirits. That is the life that is the very life that is (IN) them. Get it, Spirits Make up what LIFE (IS) they are not the Beings themselves but the life of the being. Jesus could not explain the to those people because of their lack of understanding so he used a Metaphor to describe these individual life giving forces. Even the Father Jesus said he spoke of in a Proverbial or (fictitious illustration) language. Why? But said a time would come when he would show them clearly about the Father. Jesus portrayed the Father as a person much like you do Satan but the truth is (IT) is a SPIRIT and and not a person. As far as the SPIRITS having their own desires goes what else could they have but their own selves , because that is what they ARE that is their very aspect or part of life itself created by God in the First place.Believe what Jesus said about them , That is why he said concerning the WORDS OF LIFE, why LIFE becasue WORD are simply the thoughts which are what life itself is and he said they are Spirit. You simply can not separate LIFE FROM SPIRIT, that is expressed BY WORDS. It is the SPIRIT (in) a Person that creates his WORDS so words are expressions of Spirits or the LIFE that is (IN) that Person. Can you understand that Mike?.
Spirit is the Cognate (INTELLECT) that is working in all our Minds they are not Being they are what LIFE itself IS IMO
Here is an example of what i see Spirits as , Let look at the Alphabet, we have 27 letters in it , those twenty seven compose all forms of our expressions mentally, by putting them together we make words which we can define our cognate thoughts and each letter is a Part of a word that form our words which form our thinking , if a person can not form those words from these letters they simply can not speak they are called dumb even if they have the capacity to learn them, but if they haven't yet learned them the are still considered ignorant like a child is . But if they learn them they are not ignorant anymore and not considered dumb any longer.
My point only is this, that each letter of the Alphabet can be compared to Spirit (in this sense), they (the Spirits) each add to our cognate thoughts they effect our intellects and they themselves are not Beings and like the Alphabet letters can only effect those (IT) is IN. Because they add to that persons awareness there cognate effect. Therefore Yahweh our GOD who has his Seven Spirits can Pour forth from His self these Spirit (intellect) upon all flesh Just as a teacher can pour forth the Alphabet into a Students mind so can Yahweh also pour His Spirits in to all of our minds.
I do not believe Spirit are INDIVIDUAL “BEINGS” as you percieve them as but are individual Aspect of LIFE, that can be and are (IN) “BEINGS”, they can be Clean or unclean , Good or Evil. or a mixture of them, imparting to us their life effects, Like Jesus said, “Spirit are like the Wind you can see the effect of it but can't tell whence it comes or where it goes” . They “ARE” life force the effect our minds and therefore us the “BEINGS” they are in. They can come into us and can be cast out of us. Therefore he says, “I shall take out of them the stony heart and give them a heart of flesh and will write my laws in their inward Parts and they shall be my people and i shall be their God”. Spirits can be removed and or replaced by God any time he desires to. Or by anyone who God has given that power to Like Jesus and the Apostles and other in the Church through a special Gift from God.
Therefore we should always Pray he will keep us and deliverers form the wrong way and give us his Spirit so be can become like him and live as he does in Love and Peace in this ungodly world we live in. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Mike …………………………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2012,12:03) Gene; Quote Kerwin……… Yes i have ,and believe the big problem Here is not understand what a SPIRIT (IS) . The “Spirit” of an Adversary is not a Person of any Kind it is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can be in anyone yes even PETER and the PHARISEES . Spirit is Spiirt and a Person or “BEING” is quite another. Spirits are what makes up the Person and the Person or BEING is what has the Spirits (IN) them . Persons are “LIVING SOUL” who Have SPIRIT Producing LIFE (IN) them. No scripture say Satan is a fallen angel of any kind If there is please produce it, i have not ever seen that as i recall> peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………….gene
Jesus speaks of two Adversaries; one that is called Beelzebub and the other who is called a demon. The spirit of both is adversarial and so they are Adversaries. The demons, like their King, live in people through their sinful spirits. When Jehovah hands a person over to a demon because of their unrepentant ways; they are said to own that person.
Kerwin.Did you say demon? where is it in scripture about demons?
wakeup.
Kerwin……….Jessu did not talk about Beelzebub that was the Pharisees and their Pagan precept they had recieved form the pagan over the years, nowhere in Scriptures is a Beelzebub mentioned by any of God true Prophets or leaders, all MYTHOLOGY about devils and demons came from Pagan origins. Jesus never said a Beelzebub ever existed that was the Pharisee mindset and he simply played on their false understandings, I have seen no scriptural proof of a Beelzebub devil “being”. If it is in scripture i have never seen it any where, please show us whee it is at.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 12 2012,07:03) Mike………this is where You and I greately disagree……………
It is not just me you disagree with, Gene. It is everybody on this site, and the very scriptures themselves. Now you go as far as to say God Himself is not even a being, but an “IT”?That's too much, brother. I'm bailing out of this discussion (again). It is clear that it doesn't matter what any of us say, or which scriptures we show you. You have your mind made up, and are going to believe it your way no matter what the scriptures teach.
I mean really, Jesus was just playing off of others' false understandings? How do we know which words of our Lord we should believe, and which of them we should just blow off as “false playing along” crap?
Quote (Wakeup @ July 12 2012,19:21) Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2012,12:03) Gene; Quote Kerwin……… Yes i have ,and believe the big problem Here is not understand what a SPIRIT (IS) . The “Spirit” of an Adversary is not a Person of any Kind it is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can be in anyone yes even PETER and the PHARISEES . Spirit is Spiirt and a Person or “BEING” is quite another. Spirits are what makes up the Person and the Person or BEING is what has the Spirits (IN) them . Persons are “LIVING SOUL” who Have SPIRIT Producing LIFE (IN) them. No scripture say Satan is a fallen angel of any kind If there is please produce it, i have not ever seen that as i recall> peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………….gene
Jesus speaks of two Adversaries; one that is called Beelzebub and the other who is called a demon. The spirit of both is adversarial and so they are Adversaries. The demons, like their King, live in people through their sinful spirits. When Jehovah hands a person over to a demon because of their unrepentant ways; they are said to own that person.
Kerwin.Did you say demon? where is it in scripture about demons?
wakeup.
Wakeup;Demon possession means under the power of a demon. As for God given men over to them; look at Romans 1:28.
You know God lives in a man through his Holy Spirit; so why do you doubt demons live in men through their unclean spirits.
Quote (kerwin @ July 13 2012,15:23) Quote (Wakeup @ July 12 2012,19:21) Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2012,12:03) Gene; Quote Kerwin……… Yes i have ,and believe the big problem Here is not understand what a SPIRIT (IS) . The “Spirit” of an Adversary is not a Person of any Kind it is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can be in anyone yes even PETER and the PHARISEES . Spirit is Spiirt and a Person or “BEING” is quite another. Spirits are what makes up the Person and the Person or BEING is what has the Spirits (IN) them . Persons are “LIVING SOUL” who Have SPIRIT Producing LIFE (IN) them. No scripture say Satan is a fallen angel of any kind If there is please produce it, i have not ever seen that as i recall> peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………….gene
Jesus speaks of two Adversaries; one that is called Beelzebub and the other who is called a demon. The spirit of both is adversarial and so they are Adversaries. The demons, like their King, live in people through their sinful spirits. When Jehovah hands a person over to a demon because of their unrepentant ways; they are said to own that person.
Kerwin.Did you say demon? where is it in scripture about demons?
wakeup.
Wakeup;Demon possession means under the power of a demon. As for God given men over to them; look at Romans 1:28.
You know God lives in a man through his Holy Spirit; so why do you doubt demons live in men through their unclean spirits.
Kerwin.I believe in evil spirits amd in the devil and fallen angels.
But what is a demon; where is that word mentioned in scripture?wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2012,10:38) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 12 2012,07:03) Mike………this is where You and I greately disagree……………
It is not just me you disagree with, Gene. It is everybody on this site, and the very scriptures themselves. Now you go as far as to say God Himself is not even a being, but an “IT”?That's too much, brother. I'm bailing out of this discussion (again). It is clear that it doesn't matter what any of us say, or which scriptures we show you. You have your mind made up, and are going to believe it your way no matter what the scriptures teach.
I mean really, Jesus was just playing off of others' false understandings? How do we know which words of our Lord we should believe, and which of them we should just blow off as “false playing along” crap?
mike………The (IT) is SPIRIT and the (IT) the MIND of GOD can be (IN) anyone The LORD YAHWEH Put (IT) in (IT) is LIFE and is EXPRESSED (THROUGH) WORD. As i have said before you simply do not understand what a SPIRIT (IS) MIKE> An yes Jesus did talk in a Proverbial Language Need Proof? I have posted this many times now.Joh 16:25……> These thing have i spoken unto you in “Proverbs”, (BUT) the time will come , when i shall no more speak unto you in “Proverbs” but will show you “PLAINLY” of the Father
Mike Jesus said that unto His disciples, but you seem to think you know more then they did about the identity of GOD the Father. Mike you need to go and figure out what the word Proverb means> Here is some help “IT IS A FACTIOUS ILLUSTRATION”. Jesus obscured the identity of who and what the Father is. But you think you already Know and I find that to be a bunch of “CRAP” as you put it.
Don't be to sure you know as much as you think you do Mike many scriptures are written in a Proverbial and Metaphoric language brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene
g
Quote You know God lives in a man through his Holy Spirit; so why do you doubt demons live in men through their unclean spirits. were did you read this
?Quote (Wakeup @ July 13 2012,07:21) Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2012,12:03) Gene; Quote Kerwin……… Yes i have ,and believe the big problem Here is not understand what a SPIRIT (IS) . The “Spirit” of an Adversary is not a Person of any Kind it is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can be in anyone yes even PETER and the PHARISEES . Spirit is Spiirt and a Person or “BEING” is quite another. Spirits are what makes up the Person and the Person or BEING is what has the Spirits (IN) them . Persons are “LIVING SOUL” who Have SPIRIT Producing LIFE (IN) them. No scripture say Satan is a fallen angel of any kind If there is please produce it, i have not ever seen that as i recall> peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………….gene
Jesus speaks of two Adversaries; one that is called Beelzebub and the other who is called a demon. The spirit of both is adversarial and so they are Adversaries. The demons, like their King, live in people through their sinful spirits. When Jehovah hands a person over to a demon because of their unrepentant ways; they are said to own that person.
Kerwin.Did you say demon? where is it in scripture about demons?
wakeup.
Mt 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Mt 9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.
Mt 9:33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.
Mt 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
Mt 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mt 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mt 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mk 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
Mk 5:16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
Mk 5:18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
Mk 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
Mk 7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
Mk 7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.
Lk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Lk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Lk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.KJV.MT 9:33 After the demon was cast out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “ Nothing like this has ever been seen in Israel.”
MT 11:18 “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘ He has a demon!’
MT 17:18 And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once.
MK 7:26 Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.
MK 7:29 And He said to her, “Because of this answer go; the demon has gone out of your daughter.”
MK 7:30 And going back to her home, she found the child lying on the bed, the demon having left.
LK 4:33 In the synagogue there was a man possessed by the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice,
LK 4:35 But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be quiet and come out of him!” And when the demon had thrown him down in the midst of the people, he came out of him without doing him any harm.
LK 7:33 “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’
LK 8:29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times; and he was bound with chains and shackles and kept under guard, and yet he would break his bonds and be driven by the demon into the desert.
LK 9:42 While he was still approaching, the demon slammed him to the ground and threw him into a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the boy and gave him back to his father.
LK 11:14 And He was casting out a demon, NASVMark 7:26
Context
NET © The woman was a Greek, of Syrophoenician origin. She 1 asked him to cast the demon out of her daughter.NIV ©
The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.NASB ©
Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.NLT ©
She begged him to release her child from the demon’s control. Since she was a Gentile, born in Syrian Phoenicia,MSG ©
begging for help. The woman was Greek, Syro-Phoenician by birth. She asked him to cure her daughter.BBE ©
Now the woman was a Greek, a Syro-phoenician by birth: and she made a request to him that he would send the evil spirit out of her daughter.NRSV ©
Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter.NKJV ©
The woman was a Greek, a Syro–Phoenician by birth, and she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 13 2012,00:35) Kerwin……….Jessu did not talk about Beelzebub that was the Pharisees and their Pagan precept they had recieved form the pagan over the years, nowhere in Scriptures is a Beelzebub mentioned by any of God true Prophets or leaders, all MYTHOLOGY about devils and demons came from Pagan origins. Jesus never said a Beelzebub ever existed that was the Pharisee mindset and he simply played on their false understandings, I have seen no scriptural proof of a Beelzebub devil “being”. If it is in scripture i have never seen it any where, please show us whee it is at.
Jeremiah 50:2. Declare ye among the nations,and publish,and set up a standard; say,babylon is taken,-BEL- IS CONFOUNDED, merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded,her images are broken to pieces.Bel=Be'elzebub=satan= merodach=ba'al=prince of the devils.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ July 13 2012,17:11) Kerwin. I believe in evil spirits and in the devil and fallen angels.
But what is a demon; where is that word mentioned in scripture?wakeup.
Wakeup,Demon is a variation of the ancient Greek daimon. Devil is said to come from the ancient Greek word diábolos. The translators of the KJV appear to have viewed them as synonyms.
Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,23:45) g Quote You know God lives in a man through his Holy Spirit; so why do you doubt demons live in men through their unclean spirits. were did you read this
?
T;The first part is explicitly written and has been quoted many times in your reading. The second part is evident in the many examples of demon possession.
Quote (kerwin @ July 14 2012,20:09) Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,23:45) g Quote You know God lives in a man through his Holy Spirit; so why do you doubt demons live in men through their unclean spirits. were did you read this
?
T;The first part is explicitly written and has been quoted many times in your reading. The second part is evident in the many examples of demon possession.
kGOD HOLY SPIRIT does not live in people only with the righteous ones
Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2012,08:17) Quote (kerwin @ July 14 2012,20:09) Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,23:45) g Quote You know God lives in a man through his Holy Spirit; so why do you doubt demons live in men through their unclean spirits. were did you read this
?
T;The first part is explicitly written and has been quoted many times in your reading. The second part is evident in the many examples of demon possession.
kGOD HOLY SPIRIT does not live in people only with the righteous ones
T;That is why many fall short of his glory.
Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2012,04:51) Mt 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Mt 9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.
To All……….Ask you selves is it (THE) DEVIL or (A) DEVIL I maintain all devils are (A) type or kind, and when the Definite article (THE) is used it is referring to a TYPE or KIND of “SPIRIT” (intellect) and not a “Person” at all or a singular “Being” But a singular “TYPE” or “KIND”. There is no DEVIL or SATAN “PERSON” or “BEING” , there is only the Spirit of such working (IN) the childern of disobedience, Just as God the Father's Spirit works in the childern of Obedience. Jesus mastered that Adversarial Spirit with the help of GOD and (IT) left HIM> We can also with Gods help.Spirits work in the MIND “they” are not physical but are ASPECTS of LIFE (ITSELF)> The are what LIFE (IS). Therefore it says let this “MIND” be (IN) you that was in Christ Jesus our Lord ., and again, If the “SPIRIT” of Him that “RAISED” Christ Jesus from the grave be “IN” You , “IT” Shall quicken you mortal “BODY”
Spirits are (IT”S) not persons or beings, but are what LIFE ITSELF (IS) and they abide (IN) all Life forms, that have living BODIES. Yea even animals also, from a giant Whale to a microorganism if it has LIFE (IN) it , it has Spirit or it simply could not Live . IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………gene
Quote (Wakeup @ July 14 2012,07:39) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 13 2012,00:35) Kerwin……….Jessu did not talk about Beelzebub that was the Pharisees and their Pagan precept they had recieved form the pagan over the years, nowhere in Scriptures is a Beelzebub mentioned by any of God true Prophets or leaders, all MYTHOLOGY about devils and demons came from Pagan origins. Jesus never said a Beelzebub ever existed that was the Pharisee mindset and he simply played on their false understandings, I have seen no scriptural proof of a Beelzebub devil “being”. If it is in scripture i have never seen it any where, please show us whee it is at.
Jeremiah 50:2. Declare ye among the nations,and publish,and set up a standard; say,babylon is taken,-BEL- IS CONFOUNDED, merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded,her images are broken to pieces.Bel=Be'elzebub=satan= merodach=ba'al=prince of the devils.
wakeup.
Wakeup……Look up the meaning of the word in a strong s concordance and you will find it is a false Pagan Concept of a dung God. Trying to force the text to say what it in fact is not saying can cause a lot of misunderstanding Sis. IMOThere is NO BEELZEBUB “BEING”. it is all Pagan Ideology.
Peace and Love to you and yours wakeup………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 13 2012,08:44) Jesus obscured the identity of who and what the Father is. But you think you already Know and I find that to be a bunch of “CRAP” as you put it. Don't be to sure you know as much as you think you do Mike many scriptures are written in a Proverbial and Metaphoric language brother.
Why not answer my question, Gene?When do we believe the words of our Lord Jesus Christ; and when do we just blow them off and ignore them because he was only going along with the false crap the pagans believed?
How do we know the difference?
Mike………..First you have to come to know what is truth and what is not , Many speculate on what scripture is saying and believe all kinds of false concepts of Demon and Devils and Satans . If you believed the word of Jesus you would Believe what He called PETER and start to think about it Mike. Jesus was not talking to some other creature or being that was Present as you and some “ASSUME”. He was talking about Peter Himself, this would be a good place to “START” with, and then retain that understand and apply it to other things Jesus and scriptures say. Mike it takes the “SPIRIT” (intellect) (OF) “TRUTH” to understand the truth. There is so much confusion generated by Pagan false logic in Christianity today it is Hard for many to understand what is the truth from what is not. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Mike……………………………………………………………gene
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