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Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2012,05:05) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2012,21:12) Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,17:29) Gene; Satan is an Adversary who is a fallen angel. A satan stood in the way of Balaam ready to take his life but for the actions of a loyal donkey. The book of Job speaks of some of Satan's powers.
Kerwin……..Produce one scripture that say There is an ANGEL NAMED SATAN, please do not use the “Lucifer” (rising Star) thing.peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Gene;We are speaking of fallen angels that are adversaries of humanity. The chief of these angels is called Satan; or Adversary in the English language.
Matthew 12:26
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
26 and if the Adversary doth cast out the Adversary, against himself he was divided, how then doth his kingdom stand?Do you believe that the fallen angels are adversaries?
Gene,Have you seen this.
Quote (kerwin @ July 09 2012,05:53) Quote (kerwin @ July 07 2012,05:05) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2012,21:12) Quote (kerwin @ July 06 2012,17:29) Gene; Satan is an Adversary who is a fallen angel. A satan stood in the way of Balaam ready to take his life but for the actions of a loyal donkey. The book of Job speaks of some of Satan's powers.
Kerwin……..Produce one scripture that say There is an ANGEL NAMED SATAN, please do not use the “Lucifer” (rising Star) thing.peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Gene;We are speaking of fallen angels that are adversaries of humanity. The chief of these angels is called Satan; or Adversary in the English language.
Matthew 12:26
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
26 and if the Adversary doth cast out the Adversary, against himself he was divided, how then doth his kingdom stand?Do you believe that the fallen angels are adversaries?
Gene,Have you seen this.
Kerwin……… Yes i have ,and believe the big problem Here is not understand what a SPIRIT (IS) . The “Spirit” of an Adversary is not a Person of any Kind it is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can be in anyone yes even PETER and the PHARISEES . Spirit is Spiirt and a Person or “BEING” is quite another. Spirits are what makes up the Person and the Person or BEING is what has the Spirits (IN) them . Persons are “LIVING SOUL” who Have SPIRIT Producing LIFE (IN) them. No scripture say Satan is a fallen angel of any kind If there is please produce it, i have not ever seen that as i recall>peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2012,06:01) He also seems to be ignoring a lot of Wakeup's points and questions.
Mike……….A lot of brother or sister Wakeup is saying is making assumption of what scripture is actually saying , which is forcing the text to say what it is not actually saying much like you do in my opinion . Adding a word or thoughts to what is actual written is what causes a lot of misunderstanding here. So at times i choose not to respond personally or will Just quote some scriptures and let that be the answer or not respond at all.But as Seeking said we are all still learning and have a Lot of misunderstandings given us over many years in religions of all kind. But i believe we will all come to the truth some day. IMO
peace and love to you…………………………………………….gene
Quote (Ed J @ July 09 2012,05:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 09 2012,01:17) Quote (Ed J @ July 08 2012,11:31) Hi Wakeup, It is funny how Gene believes that devils exist, but
DOES NOT believe that the prince of the devils exists.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ ………. Yes i do believe in many Satan That Prince of Devil's is the SPIRIT of Disobedience working (IN) Men which is against the “WILL” of GOD, (IT) works in the Hearts of Men. Men of disobedience wanting there own WILL'S to be FREE From GOD”S WILL> who think there own so-called “FREEWILL” choices is what saves them. When in fact only ONE can SAVE and that is GOD the FATHER “ALONE” and It is HIS WILL ALONE that SAVES NOT ours at all> Or haven't you read, “For He works (IN) US “BOTH” to WILL an do of “HIS” Good Pleasure”. If God works our WILLS in us, then it is not “US” by OUR OWN So -called “FREEWILL” CHOICES doing it at all. Men who think their own “FREEWILL” saves them are in fact thieves and robbers becasue they steal the Glory of GOD and apply it to their own so-called “FREEWILL” Choices , which they believe saves them> But Just as Jesus said , “ALL WHO CAME BEFORE ME WERE THIEVES AND ROBBERS” is true. Men are proud and love to steal the Glory of GOD and apply it to themselves, By saying their own so-called “FREEWILL” Choices is what saved them, when in fact it is GOD ALONE that SAVES> Will are not FREE in fact they are captivated and brought under subjection to the strongest INFLUENCES: in their lives. The term “FREEWILL” is an OXYMORON , it is contradictory to the way A WILL “ITSELF” WORKS> IMOpeace and love to you and yours EdJ…………………………..gene
Hi Gene,Our “Free Will”, are you suggesting is satan?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Gene?EDJ…….YES ,If that is the “SPIRIT influencing us and act act according to that Spirit (intellect). WE all can and have been a Satan at some time in our lives Brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,01:22) No scripture say Satan is a fallen angel of any kind If there is please produce it, i have not ever seen that as i recall.
Hi Gene,Luke 10:18 And Jesus said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ……….I know that scripture but i believe it was referencing a sudden removal of His presents (IN) him, Not a Physical thing at all, who do you know that has ever seen a Satan “BEING” ever as far as that goes. Jesus gave us Spiritual Principles to relate with Spiritual things, Look no one has seen God we are told and no one has seen a Satan either, why becasue they are Spiirt and can not be seen by the Physical eye. We see them thought the EYE of our understanding, not Physically. The whole concept of a Physical Satan going around with a pitchfork and a long red tail is a false That does not exist> Satan is a Spirit (intellect) that people have (IT) is not a individual Person, the person that operates with that Spirit is the ONLY PHYSICAL SATAN that exists. Jesus was not taken up to some high “PHYSICAL” Mountain to view all the kingdoms of the world because no such mountain exists, can you see that Brother?
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,10:18) EDJ…….YES ,If that is the “SPIRIT influencing us and act act according to that Spirit (intellect). WE all can and have been a Satan at some time in our lives Brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………..gene
genehere again we have a choice listen to Satan or to Gods spirit
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,03:18) EDJ…….YES ,If that is the “SPIRIT influencing us and act act according to that Spirit (intellect). WE all can and have been a Satan at some time in our lives Brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………..gene
GeneB.How can you call yourself a CHRISTIAN when you totally disregard the written word of God?
The scriptures seem to be unreliable to you.
Where in scripture does it say that satan is only the evil spirit of man.And you are also claiming that Jesus was born with an evil spirit in him; how can he be the prince of peace,and of righteousness?
That he carried himself on the pinnacle of the temple.
You have been whorring,and have gone astray from the truth.wakeup.
Luke 22:31
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat.Gene, was this an adversarial spirit from God asking God to sift the Apostles as wheat?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,01:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2012,06:01) He also seems to be ignoring a lot of Wakeup's points and questions.
Mike……….A lot of brother or sister Wakeup is saying is making assumption of what scripture is actually saying , which is forcing the text to say what it is not actually saying much like you do in my opinion . Adding a word or thoughts to what is actual written is what causes a lot of misunderstanding here. So at times i choose not to respond personally or will Just quote some scriptures and let that be the answer or not respond at all.But as Seeking said we are all still learning and have a Lot of misunderstandings given us over many years in religions of all kind. But i believe we will all come to the truth some day. IMO
peace and love to you…………………………………………….gene
Hi GeneI have given you scripture in the past and you just ignored them and me.
Now I know why.
Remember this scripture?
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.Maybe if we argued back and forth numerous times over the same thing, I can understand, but you not answered me once when I gave you a reply with scripture.
Scripture means something different for everybody. Look at all the confusion out there.
If Christ were to say to you
“I was in Prison and you didn't visit me”
“I was a stranger and you took not me in”
How would you understand this?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2012,13:18) Luke 22:31
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat.Gene, was this an adversarial spirit from God asking God to sift the Apostles as wheat?
Mike……..Another misquoted scripture, My Bible says “Satan has desired you to sift you as wheat”Mike that is what a Satanic Spirit does to all of us, (all) Spirits desire us to have an effect on us all. Jesus went on to say He prayed that his “FAITH” would not fail and told Peter when he was converted to strengthen the brethren.
You insert the words “asked to sift him”, as if He as a Person went to God and Asked him for Peter. Pure conjecture on you part Mike.
Fact is this spirit of an adversary is in all men seeking to destory them But our FAITH needs Prevail even when we are “CONVERTED”> Faith is the Key to steadfastness and is the OIL that we need in our Flasks to fuel Us all. i.e , (five wise and five foolish virgins). IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene
Quote (journey42 @ July 10 2012,19:11) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,01:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 09 2012,06:01) He also seems to be ignoring a lot of Wakeup's points and questions.
Mike……….A lot of brother or sister Wakeup is saying is making assumption of what scripture is actually saying , which is forcing the text to say what it is not actually saying much like you do in my opinion . Adding a word or thoughts to what is actual written is what causes a lot of misunderstanding here. So at times i choose not to respond personally or will Just quote some scriptures and let that be the answer or not respond at all.But as Seeking said we are all still learning and have a Lot of misunderstandings given us over many years in religions of all kind. But i believe we will all come to the truth some day. IMO
peace and love to you…………………………………………….gene
Hi GeneI have given you scripture in the past and you just ignored them and me.
Now I know why.
Remember this scripture?
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.Maybe if we argued back and forth numerous times over the same thing, I can understand, but you not answered me once when I gave you a reply with scripture.
Scripture means something different for everybody. Look at all the confusion out there.
If Christ were to say to you
“I was in Prison and you didn't visit me”
“I was a stranger and you took not me in”
How would you understand this?
Journey ………..I would understand it in context of what Jesus was saying to the “NATIONS” in his Judgment of there behavior to other nations, It could also extend to individuals also. IMOHowever adding thought or changing context to meet our own understanding as many here do can add or distract from what is being talked about. Notice above at my response to Mike when he added “ASK” to his rendition of what Jesus was saying> He did that becasue he believes Satan is a Specific Person walking around in competition with God, but must ask God as to what he can do. All spirits types and Kind of (INTELLECT) desire us all. We must with God Spiirt MASTER them> Faith is the KEY, that is why Jesus said He prayed the Father for PETERS FAITH. that it would not fail. Because that is what an adversarial Spirit (intellect) will produce, a failing of Faith in GOD>
I am sorry if i have some how offended you it certainly was not my intent Brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
Quote Journey ………..I would understand it in context of what Jesus was saying to the “NATIONS” in his Judgment of there behavior to other nations, It could also extend to individuals also. IMO However adding thought or changing context to meet our own understanding as many here do can add or distract from what is being talked about. Notice above at my response to Mike when he added “ASK” to his rendition of what Jesus was saying> He did that becasue he believes Satan is a Specific Person walking around in competition with God, but must ask God as to what he can do. All spirits types and Kind of (INTELLECT) desire us all. We must with God Spiirt MASTER them> Faith is the KEY, that is why Jesus said He prayed the Father for PETERS FAITH. that it would not fail. Because that is what an adversarial Spirit (intellect) will produce, a failing of Faith in GOD>
I am sorry if i have some how offended you it certainly was not my intent Brother.
Hi Gene
Thank you for your response. Your sister forgives you and I apologise also for being blunt. No harm intended either.
Lets look at this scripture for I find these words of Christ have a deeper meaning, which speaks to our spirit and I only want to share.Matthew 25:35 For I was hungered, and you gave me meat: I was thirsty and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in.
We all need meat to survive physically, but we die in the end, and it's not this type of meat Christ was warning us about for he stated;
John 4:32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
So I hope we can agree that we have scripture to back up what type of meat Christ says to labour for, and this meat is spiritual food that only Christ can give, for we can only come to the Father through Christ, and Christ is the Word of God. We must feed on the Word of God.
Those who are feeding on the Word of God, are those who are sealed. And if them that are sealed (for Christ knows) who are feeding on the truth, feed others also, on that same type of truth (meat), then it makes more sense that others void of truth are hungry. So if we feed them truth, then we are blameless. Christ speaks to the spiritual in spiritual terms.
Now look at this part of the scripture;
I was a stranger, and ye took me in.2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Those who are held captive, are prisoners, not knowing the truth, and are therefore hungry; they are strangers to the truth, strangers to Christ, and strangers to Christ's brethren.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Therefore we should not give up hope on anyone, nor turn our backs, for if we do, it is the same as turning our back on Christ.
And I part agree with you, this is talking to individuals, to the followers of Christ, for the unbelievers do not hear his voice, nor do the nations.
I hope I explained the above verse clear and that Christ is speaking spiritually to the spiritual.Peace to you.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,06:45) Mike……..Another misquoted scripture, My Bible says “Satan has desired you to sift you as wheat” You insert the words “asked to sift him”, as if He as a Person went to God and Asked him for Peter. Pure conjecture on you part Mike.
Gene,All I did was copy and paste the NIV translation. But here is the definition of the Greek word translated as “asked” in the NIV:
exaiteomai
1) to ask from, demand of
1a) to ask or beg for one's self, to ask that one be given up to one from the power of another
1b) in a good sense,
1b1) to beg one from another
1b2) ask for the pardon
1b3) the safety of some one
1c) in a bad sense
1c1) for torture
1c2) for punishmentQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,06:45) Mike that is what a Satanic Spirit does to all of us, (all) Spirits desire us to have an effect on us all.
Only sentient BEINGS have their own desire, Gene. Just like the spirits that DESIRED to be sent into the pigs. If they have their own wills, and their own desires, THEY ARE BEINGS.
peace,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,23:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2012,13:18) Luke 22:31
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat.Gene, was this an adversarial spirit from God asking God to sift the Apostles as wheat?
Mike……..Another misquoted scripture, My Bible says “Satan has desired you to sift you as wheat”Mike that is what a Satanic Spirit does to all of us, (all) Spirits desire us to have an effect on us all. Jesus went on to say He prayed that his “FAITH” would not fail and told Peter when he was converted to strengthen the brethren.
You insert the words “asked to sift him”, as if He as a Person went to God and Asked him for Peter. Pure conjecture on you part Mike.
Fact is this spirit of an adversary is in all men seeking to destory them But our FAITH needs Prevail even when we are “CONVERTED”> Faith is the Key to steadfastness and is the OIL that we need in our Flasks to fuel Us all. i.e , (five wise and five foolish virgins). IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene
GeneB.I know that you are trying to avoid my questions,but just explain this one.
Gen.3:14.And the Lord God said unto the SERPENT,Because -THOU-has done this -thou- art cursed above all cattle,and above every beast of the field; upon -THY-belly shallt -THOU-go,and dust shalt -THOU- eat all the days of -THY- life.
Gen.3:15.And I will put enmity between -THEE-and the woman,and between -THYSEED-and -HER SEED-; it shall bruise -THY HEAD-,and -THOU-shall bruise -HIS HEEL-.
WHO IS THIS THOU;THAT HAS A HEAD?
wHO BRUISED JESUS HEEL?wakeup.
Wakeup………So then to you the Devil is a SERPENT or SNAKE Right? Those are Physical creatures and I highely doubt that a Satan is a Real SERPENT. That is the problem with trying to make a Metaphor in to a real as a Person or Animal. You can not understand Genesis without understanding the Symbolism used . There is no real Serpent “Animal” that is a Satan, Satan is a SPIRIT that works in the childern of disobedience, (it) has nothing to do with animals at all Just in a symbolic sense only. The head is the Spiritual working of (IT), that that type or kind of Spirit produces, and must be mastered by us all, just as Jesus mastered (IT)> Satan is not a Person or “being” Satan is an (IT)> A intellect that effect all mankind (IT) is (IN)>
Just as GODS Spirit Does (IN) All (it) is (IN)> Both God and Satan are Spirits, Not people or beings as you and many presume. Yahweh our God is the Person and His eyes which give him his understand are composed of SEVEN SPIRITS , call the SEVEN SPIRITS (INTELLECTS) of GOD. Which give YAHWEH His incites into all he does.
Yahweh created every Spirit that exists there is none which he himself did not create, both Good and Evil Spirits which produce Good and Evil Knowledge becasue they are those types and kind of (INTELLECTS) Which can and do inhabit everyone with a physical body. Both Man and animal. Spirits are not persons they are LIFE (ITSELF) the cognate Thoughts which compose all thoughts. they are what LIFE (IS)> Did not Jesus say the the “WORDS” I am telling you “ARE” Spirit and LIFE Words “ARE” SPIRIT. According to Jesus and “WORDS” are Not BEINGS now ARE they. This should answer Mike question also. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Sis…………………………………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2012,09:49) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,06:45) Mike……..Another misquoted scripture, My Bible says “Satan has desired you to sift you as wheat” You insert the words “asked to sift him”, as if He as a Person went to God and Asked him for Peter. Pure conjecture on you part Mike.
Gene,All I did was copy and paste the NIV translation. But here is the definition of the Greek word translated as “asked” in the NIV:
exaiteomai
1) to ask from, demand of
1a) to ask or beg for one's self, to ask that one be given up to one from the power of another
1b) in a good sense,
1b1) to beg one from another
1b2) ask for the pardon
1b3) the safety of some one
1c) in a bad sense
1c1) for torture
1c2) for punishmentQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2012,06:45) Mike that is what a Satanic Spirit does to all of us, (all) Spirits desire us to have an effect on us all.
Only sentient BEINGS have their own desire, Gene. Just like the spirits that DESIRED to be sent into the pigs. If they have their own wills, and their own desires, THEY ARE BEINGS.peace,
mike
Mike…….Well you can used anything you can find to force the text to say what you want it to, that is the problem here. Actual it should be understood as desired Him, as all Spirits desire us. Even the Spirit of GOD , that is why they are not “BEINGS” becasue they can be in everyone at the same time. They all want to live in a BODY in order to animate it. A being is ENCAPSULATED with a “BODY” Spirit are not “BEINGS” , they are what is (IN) BEINGS. Until you come to understand that, you will never Know what Jesus meant when He said the Father (IN) Me “HE” Does the “WORKS”. IMOpeace and love to you and yours Mike…………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 12 2012,01:15) Wakeup………So then to you the Devil is a SERPENT or SNAKE Right? Those are Physical creatures and I highely doubt that a Satan is a Real SERPENT. That is the problem with trying to make a Metaphor in to a real as a Person or Animal. You can not understand Genesis without understanding the Symbolism used . There is no real Serpent “Animal” that is a Satan, Satan is a SPIRIT that works in the childern of disobedience, (it) has nothing to do with animals at all Just in a symbolic sense only. The head is the Spiritual working of (IT), that that type or kind of Spirit produces, and must be mastered by us all, just as Jesus mastered (IT)> Satan is not a Person or “being” Satan is an (IT)> A intellect that effect all mankind (IT) is (IN)> Just as GODS Spirit Does (IN) All (it) is (IN)> Both God and Satan are Spirits, Not people or beings as you and many presume. Yahweh our God is the Person and His eyes which give him his understand are composed of SEVEN SPIRITS , call the SEVEN SPIRITS (INTELLECTS) of GOD. Which give YAHWEH His incites into all he does.
Yahweh created every Spirit that exists there is none which he himself did not create, both Good and Evil Spirits which produce Good and Evil Knowledge becasue they are those types and kind of (INTELLECTS) Which can and do inhabit everyone with a physical body. Both Man and animal. Spirits are not persons they are LIFE (ITSELF) the cognate Thoughts which compose all thoughts. they are what LIFE (IS)> Did not Jesus say the the “WORDS” I am telling you “ARE” Spirit and LIFE Words “ARE” SPIRIT. According to Jesus and “WORDS” are Not BEINGS now ARE they. This should answer Mike question also. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Sis…………………………………………………………….gene
Gene B.Satan can appear as an angel of light,and I think he did when he appeared unto mohamad,and to the catholics he appeared as mary.
Being a spirit creature he can appear as anything he wants:
As a serpent or dragon,or just a man,or a beautiful woman like mary,crying in tears.Satan was the anointed cherup called Lucifer.
A cherup is an angel of a higher order,not just a spirit intelect.It does make sense that satan had to appear as a serpent in the garden,for Adam and Eve knew,there are only two persons in the garden,not three.
wakeup.
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