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Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,13:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,06:15) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,10:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,05:27) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 29 2013,11:07) Wakeup, You are contradicting Scripture as the Son did not speak to humans until these last days.
Kerwin.This is where you are wrong.
The Word of God have always spoken: in the garden and to the prophets.
In His days He as a man; He spoke.
They could see him, and feel him,and ate with Him.
In revelation; he also spoke.
He is the only *Word of God*.wakeup.
Wakeup,The book of Hebrews states that the Son is the one that spoke in these last day though previously other means than the Son were used. If you truly desire to Scripture then you also must claim that it is only in these last days that the Son spoke to human beings.
Kerwin.John the babtist had the Holy spirit from birth.
He knew the mystery;therefore he said:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word
was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh,and dwelleth amongst men.
The light(wisdom) shined in darkness,and
the darkness comprehended it not.Today also the darkness comprehended it not,accept them
that is given to comprehend the light.wakeup.
Wakeup,John 1:1-14 says nothing of whether or not the Son spoke to men before these last ages and it certainly does not conflict with the words of Hebrews.
It is a Trinitarian teaching that the Son spoke to human previous to these last days and you never tested to see if it was true.
Kerwin.Before the Word was made flesh;the Word was not the Son
of God;but the Word of God.
The Word became the son of God when He was made flesh.
1.The Word of God spoke to the prophets.
2. Jesus spoke to israel
3.After His resurrection;The word of God spoke to John
by and angels.This is the book of revelation.HE DID NOT SAY: I AM JESUS; NO.
BUT: I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA THE FIRST AND THE LAST.
THEN IDENTIFIED HIMSELF MORE CLEARLY.
I AM HE THAT WAS DEAD;AND AM ALIVE FOR EVER MORE.wakeup.
Quote HE DID NOT SAY: I AM JESUS; NO.
BUT: I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA THE FIRST AND THE LAST.
THEN IDENTIFIED HIMSELF MORE CLEARLY.
I AM HE THAT WAS DEAD;AND AM ALIVE FOR EVER MORE.Please give chapter, verse, and Bible used.
Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 03 2013,17:16) Quote HE DID NOT SAY: I AM JESUS; NO.
BUT: I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA THE FIRST AND THE LAST.
THEN IDENTIFIED HIMSELF MORE CLEARLY.
I AM HE THAT WAS DEAD;AND AM ALIVE FOR EVER MORE.
Please give chapter, verse
, and Bible used.
Tigger2.Quote Please give chapter, verse
, and Bible usedRevelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
And thank you for correcting my spelling.
wakeup.
Quote Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
And thank you for correcting my spelling.
wakeup.
You're very welcome.
Although I see Jesus saying he is the first and last in some way, I don't see him using the title Alpha and Omega here.
“The first and the last” simply means “only” and could apply in some sense to many, including Adam, Eve, and Jesus.
“Alpha and Omega” is similar in meaning, but is more like a title. Only God is clearly called “Alpha and Omega” in scripture.
Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 04 2013,05:45) Quote Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
And thank you for correcting my spelling.
wakeup.
You're very welcome.
Although I see Jesus saying he is the first and last in some way, I don't see him using the title Alpha and Omega here.
“The first and the last” simply means “only” and could apply in some sense to many, including Adam, Eve, and Jesus.
“Alpha and Omega” is similar in meaning, but is more like a title. Only God is clearly called “Alpha and Omega” in scripture.
Tigger2.God was speaking in revelation,
through His word/Jesus,and He passed it on to the angel
and the angel gave it to John.
God always speaks through His Word.
His Word also said: LET THERE BE LIGHT.
HIS WORD ALSO CURSED THE SERPENT.THEN HIS WORD WAS MADE FLESH.
HE IS NOW BACK IN HEAVEN AS THE WORD OF GOD.Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called **The Word of God*.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
So you are claiming it was either during of after the Word was made flesh that he became God's Son. Who was he before?
Wakeup, I think Tigger may of wanted these scriptures?
Quote Although I see Jesus saying he is the first and last in some way, I don't see him using the title Alpha and Omega here. “The first and the last” simply means “only” and could apply in some sense to many, including Adam, Eve, and Jesus.
“Alpha and Omega” is similar in meaning, but is more like a title. Only God is clearly called “Alpha and Omega” in scripture.
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Quote Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
“Alpha and Omega” at Rev. 1:11 is spurious.
The person speaking at Rev. 22:13 is not Jesus. For proof see my AO study:
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html " class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,11:43) Wakeup, So you are claiming it was either during of after the Word was made flesh that he became God's Son. Who was he before?
Kerwin.The Word was made flesh.
He was born a through a woman.
Before that he was the Word of God.
Today;He is again the Word of God.(rev19:13).wakeup.
tigger2,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Tigger2Quote Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Quote “Alpha and Omega” at Rev. 1:11 is spurious.
Well I will have to get out my dictionary to understand that word. It's not an everyday word.spu·ri·ous adjective \ˈspyu̇r-ē-əs\
: not genuine, sincere, or authentic: based on false ideas or bad reasoning
Full Definition of SPURIOUS
1
: of illegitimate birth : bastard
2
: outwardly similar or corresponding to something without having its genuine qualities : false
3
a : of falsified or erroneously attributed origin : forged
b : of a deceitful nature or qualityTigger2,
This is the Word of God speaking. Jesus is the Word of God, that's why he tells us to eat his flesh and drink his blood.
I'd say that those words are indeed genuine, sincere and authentic, and not based on false ideas or bad reasoning, but God speaking through his Word (Jesus Christ) and showing us something here. Christ is the one speaking God's words because he is the Word of God.Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.
It is Christ speaking, but I understand how many become confused by this, just like John 1:1, and try to add the name Jehovah in there so that it makes sense.
You're mob a right in a way, but the scriptures are for us to work out the mysteries, and should not be interpreted for us by men, for not all your interpretations are correct.Quote The person speaking at Rev. 22:13 is not Jesus. For proof see my AO study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html " class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html
You can't carry this around with you if someone in person hits you with a question unawares. You must be ready at all times to show that you understand scripture and can explain it simply to them. Do you understand what I am saying? Put your cards on the table, and the table is here, not through the back door.
If I were to show you my studies, I would have to photocopy my hole bible, because all my notes and references are written in there right next to the scriptures and anywhere I can fit it.I will take a look at it later however.
Quote T2: “The person speaking at Rev. 22:13 is not Jesus. For proof see my AO study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html “" class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html “
j42: You can't carry this around with you if someone in person hits you with a question unawares. You must be ready at all times to show that you understand scripture and can explain it simply to them. ….
I will take a look at it later however.
So it takes too much effort to click on a link and immediately see what I would have written out here anyway?
You are ignoring the evidence I have discovered when you decide not to click on a link.
By the way, my failing memory and fading, painful vision are not conducive to actually typing out longer posts as completely as I'd like. I must either cut-and-paste from my files (and then polish them up with the iB code system) or give a link to them.
Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 05 2013,06:42) Quote T2: “The person speaking at Rev. 22:13 is not Jesus. For proof see my AO study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html “" class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html “
j42: You can't carry this around with you if someone in person hits you with a question unawares. You must be ready at all times to show that you understand scripture and can explain it simply to them. ….
I will take a look at it later however.
So it takes too much effort to click on a link and immediately see what I would have written out here anyway?
You are ignoring the evidence I have discovered when you decide not to click on a link.
By the way, my failing memory and fading, painful vision are not conducive to actually typing out longer posts as completely as I'd like. I must either cut-and-paste from my files (and then polish them up with the iB code system) or give a link to them.
Tigger2.Please dont use links.
Just do as we all do,all in the open so all can read.You still have not responded to my first question.
1.Who created Micha'el?wakeup.
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 03 2013,19:11) Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
1:8 is Jehovah speaking.1:11 doesn't have those first words in any of the older mss – which means they were added in later. You won't see any credible English translation that includes them, because even the Trinitarian scholars know the words are spurious, and were added by a later scribe.
21:6 is Jehovah speaking.
22:13 is Jehovah speaking.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 05 2013,11:28) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 03 2013,19:11) Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
1:8 is Jehovah speaking.1:11 doesn't have those first words in any of the older mss – which means they were added in later. You won't see any credible English translation that includes them, because even the Trinitarian scholars know the words are spurious, and were added by a later scribe.
21:6 is Jehovah speaking.
22:13 is Jehovah speaking.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:Revelation 1:18 **I am he that liveth, and was dead**; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,12:58) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,11:43) Wakeup, So you are claiming it was either during of after the Word was made flesh that he became God's Son. Who was he before?
Kerwin.The Word was made flesh.
He was born a through a woman.
Before that he was the Word of God.
Today;He is again the Word of God.(rev19:13).wakeup.
Wakeup,According to you he was not the Son of God. Do you believe he was a son of God?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 08 2013,09:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,12:58) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,11:43) Wakeup, So you are claiming it was either during of after the Word was made flesh that he became God's Son. Who was he before?
Kerwin.The Word was made flesh.
He was born a through a woman.
Before that he was the Word of God.
Today;He is again the Word of God.(rev19:13).wakeup.
Wakeup,According to you he was not the Son of God. Do you believe he was a son of God?
The Kerwinbrothers.Jesus is the son in the flesh.
Now he is called the Word of God.Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that **no man knew**, but he himself.
NO MAN *KNEW* PAST TENSE.
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and
**no man knoweth** *who the Son is**,
but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and
**he to whom the Son will reveal him**.Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
***and his name is called The Word of God***.
**HIS NAME IS NOT CALLED JESUS,ANYMORE**.
He also said previously that HE is ALPHA AND OMEGA;
Who was DEAD and is ALIVE for ever more.
Jesus was dead; and he is Alpha and Omega.
This is in harmony with: There is no other god beside me.
I am He: there is none beside me.I my self have done all these things.I know you are confused,but that's how it should be,
because of what it says in Luke 10:22.QUESTION TO ALL:
You believe that without the Word; nothing was made that was made.
WHO CREATED JESUS?wakeup.
Wakeup.
As for the flesh Scripture declares that Jesus was made of the Seed of David.
As for the name he was called that only he knew. As far as I know only him and Jehovah are the only ones that still know it.
Neither of those answered my question.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2013,11:06) Wakeup. As for the flesh Scripture declares that Jesus was made of the Seed of David.
As for the name he was called that only he knew. As far as I know only him and Jehovah are the only ones that still know it.
Neither of those answered my question.
Kerwin.Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that **no man knew**, but he himself.
knew=past tense.
NO ONE *KNEW* HIM IN THE PAST=SPEAKING OF TODAY.
(TOMORROW SPEAKING OF TODAY).(today speaking of yesterday).That is in harmony with this scripture:
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man **knoweth** who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
knoweth=present tense.
Today no man *knoweth* who the Son is,
and no man *knoweth* who the Father is ,but the Son;
and *HE TO WHOM THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM*.There are still many controversies about the Son today.
He is still a mystery to the world.1.Is he God?
2.Is He A God?
3.Is He Micha'el?
4.Is He flesh?
5.Is He spirit?
6.Is He the Holy spirit?This is because they have not come out of babylon;
still in the city of confusion.
Need to come out her.wakeup.
Wakeup,
My question still stands unanswered. It is:
Quote So you are claiming it was either during the time of after time the Word was made flesh that he became God's Son. Who was he before that time? I am asking for his relationship to God.
As for your additional words, I am not denying that “know” is a past tense English word but I am pointing out that it does not tell you anything about the present or the future. That name could at times called present and future be known only to Jesus and Jehovah or to all creation as well as the Creator. In either case we are not told in that passage. We are also the name is.
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