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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2011,19:24) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 04 2011,18:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,02:36) No matter how you cut it if Jesus is of the “God kind” then he is God and no less God than God or he is not of the “God kind” at all.
The argument is no God-kind. But that Jesus is (not) God himself. It is written that he existed with divine nature or God's form, and that he has returned to the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun.Jesus is not God. He certainly existed in the form of God.
I'm waiting for Keith to show me a scripture that teaches us about the “species” of “Godkind”.mike
Mike“God has Only One Begotten Son doesn't he?”
“Then what “kind” of Son does God have?”
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 04 2011,19:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,02:36) No matter how you cut it if Jesus is of the “God kind” then he is God and no less God than God or he is not of the “God kind” at all.
The argument is no God-kind. But that Jesus is (not) God himself. It is written that he existed with divine nature or God's form, and that he has returned to the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun.Jesus is not God. He certainly existed in the form of God.
t8 Really?Why can't you and Mike tell us what kind of creature Jesus is?
Mike doesn't believe he is God or man.
“God has Only One Begotten Son doesn't he?”
“Then what “kind” of Son does God have?”
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 04 2011,18:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,02:36) Do you have a scripture that says “adam” is less “adam” than “Adam”? Do you have a scripture that says “Adam” is more “adam than “adam”?
Is Adam more human than adam?
Is adam less human than Adam?
Ha ha ha.There is Adam and there is adam.
Eve is adam, but she is not Adam.
Is it clear enough now?
t8What are you saying t8, that the woman is less adam than Adam?
Adam is the Hebrew word for “mankind”.
Therefore all adams and eves, male or female are Adam.
You do understand don't you t8?
Your capitalizing Adam doesn't make Adam greater than adam does it?
There were no caps in the Hebrew, you do know this don't you?
WJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,02:17) ATTENTION ALL: The English transliteration underneath the Hebrew words in Genesis 1:27 and 6:7 in the Hebrew Interlinear is “e adm” (the adam).
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen6.pdf
All men are “e adm” (the adam) and therefore have the SAME identity.
Identity 1. sameness of essential character
KJ
Jack,Is there a translation you are aware of that has “THE adam” in 6:7? YES or NO?
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,10:20) Mike “God has Only One Begotten Son doesn't he?”
God is the Father of many sons and daughters. Are they all included in the species of “Godkind”?Keith, God stands alone as the single being who created all others. The fact that Jesus was created by being begotten by his God does not change the fact that God brought him forth into existence.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,10:36) t8 What are you saying t8, that the woman is less adam than Adam?
It seems clear enough to my sane mind that t8 is saying that Eve is not Adam, although she is adam.Keith, will you answer my two questions that have been floating around?
1. How many human beings are in existence right now? More than ONE?
2. Keith, we both agree that there is only one true LIVING GOD. Is Jesus the Son OF this one true LIVING GOD? YES or NO?
mike
WJ said to t8:
Quote t8 What are you saying t8, that the woman is less adam than Adam?
Adam is the Hebrew word for “mankind”.
Therefore all adams and eves, male or female are Adam.
You do understand don't you t8?
Your capitalizing Adam doesn't make Adam greater than adam does it?
There were no caps in the Hebrew, you do know this don't you?
WJ
Hi Keith,You are doing a great job here bro! I am still on cloud nine because of the way you showed how Mike misrepresented the Catholic Encyclopedia. Mike definitely has some serious reading comprehension issues. And I amazed at the way t8 and Mike are blatantly denying God's truth in reference to all men sharing the same identity as “the Adam.”
I have shown from Genesis 1:27 that the man and the woman corporately were called “e adm” (the adam). “And so God made e adm (the adam) in His own image…MALE AND FEMALE He created them….” http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
In Genesis 6:7 the same “e adm” denomination is used of ALL men whom God would destroy. “And God said, 'I will destroy from the face of the earth e adm (the adam) which I have created.' ” http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen6.pdf
Quote Your capitalizing Adam doesn't make Adam greater than adam does it?
Note that “e adm” is not capitalized in the Hebrew Scripture in Genesis 1:27 and 6:7. I marvel that t8 thinks that this would be a valid argument.We are giving these guys the truth and they are running away from it.
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,11:36)
You are doing a great job here bro! I am still on cloud nine because of the way you showed how Mike misrepresented the Catholic Encyclopedia. Mike definitely has some serious reading comprehension issues.
Jack, could you explain to me how changing the baptismal FORMULA is different than changing the words of Jesus?What I'm saying is, that if they previously taught baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, then why would they later change this formula? If 28:19 ALWAYS said “the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” (which by the way is THREE names, not ONE), why would they have originally baptised in the name of Jesus only? And what promted them to change their formula?
I have “misrepresented” nothing Jack. And it's these false accusations about other members on HN that earn people tiles. You have done this many times to me, and I'm tired of it. Remember the TWOT accusation you made about me to Francis? You posted on and on about how I was dishonest, when it was YOU who conveniently left a word out of the quote.
Tell me, what did I “misrepresent”? I pointed people to a YouTube video. Did I “lie” about something in that process?
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,11:36)
In Genesis 6:7 the same “e adm” denomination is used of ALL men whom God would destroy.
Jack, when you find a reliable translation that has “THE adam” in 6:7, then you might be on to something. Until then, you are a clanging cymbal trying to divert the real focus of this thread, which is this:Keith and Jack, we all agree that there is only one true LIVING GOD. Is Jesus the Son OF this one true LIVING GOD? YES or NO?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:30)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,10:36) t8 What are you saying t8, that the woman is less adam than Adam?
It seems clear enough to my sane mind that t8 is saying that Eve is not Adam, although she is adam.
Of course more word games, Adam and adam. But the obvious truth is Adam and Eve had the same nature as humans and is both equally human or “Adam”.Mankind (Adam) is male and female. The woman came from the man and they are one flesh or one mankind.
Jesus is the Only Monogenes Son of God and is One Spirit and One Godkind.
This is simple logic that you deny.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:30)
Keith, will you answer my two questions that have been floating around?1. How many human beings are in existence right now? More than ONE?
There are billions of beings known as “mankind”. Is there more than “one mankind”? Is there more than “one Godkind?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:30) 2. Keith, we both agree that there is only one true LIVING GOD. Is Jesus the Son OF this one true LIVING GOD? YES or NO?
Yes.God is a title that identifys a class of being!
Are you a Son of the “one true LIVING mankind?
So what is your point?
Mike why is it that now the word God is being used by you like it is a “name”? Man for all the time you spent arguing that God is not a name and does not mean the One True God but only a ruler you sure do treat the word “Theos” as if it does “identify” God. You rarely say Father it seems. What gives?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,10:20) Mike “God has Only One Begotten Son doesn't he?”
God is the Father of many sons and daughters. Are they all included in the species of “Godkind”?Keith, God stands alone as the single being who created all others. The fact that Jesus was created by being begotten by his God does not change the fact that God brought him forth into existence.
mike
This is simple poo poo.There are no scriptures anywhere that say Jesus was created, but in fact the scripture says “NOTHING came into being without him” and we know YHVH didn't create Jesus through Jesus.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,10:20) Mike “God has Only One Begotten Son doesn't he?”
God is the Father of many sons and daughters. Are they all included in the species of “Godkind”?Keith, God stands alone as the single being who created all others. The fact that Jesus was created by being begotten by his God does not change the fact that God brought him forth into existence.
mike
mikeWhy do you defer an answer to my question?
“God has Only One Begotten Son doesn't he?”
“There are no other “ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS” are there?“
“Then what “kind” of Son does God have?”
Please answer the questions Mike.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,13:05) Jack, could you explain to me how changing the baptismal FORMULA is different than changing the words of Jesus?
Because its one thing to change the text it is another thing to change the practice of Baptism.You were infering that the Catholics changed the text.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
Of course more word games, Adam and adam. But the obvious truth is Adam and Eve had the same nature as humans and is both equally human or “Adam”.
Word games? If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is!Keith, YES Adam and Eve are equally THE SPECIES of adam. But Eve is not the BEING of Adam. Adam is the first man ever created. Eve is the first woman ever created. You see? TWO completely different individual BEINGS. One cannot be the other if there are two of them. Simple, really.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
There are billions of beings known as “mankind”. Is there more than “one mankind”? Is there more than “one Godkind?
Thank God. You have fallen away from Jack's absurdity that humankind consists only of ONE BEING. But now that you admit there are billions of INDIVIDUAL BEINGS within the SPECIES of mankind, I have a follow up question:Is any one of these INDIVIDUAL BEINGS the exact same INDIVIDUAL BEING as his father?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011,12:30) 2. Keith, we both agree that there is only one true LIVING GOD. Is Jesus the Son OF this one true LIVING GOD? YES or NO? Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
Yes.God is a title that identifys a class of being!
Thank you for FINALLY answering this simple and direct question with a direct answer! Your answer of “YES” is the correct one, supported by many scriptures.Your second statement is off, though. Keith, how many beings are there in this “class of being” known as “God”?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
Are you a Son of the “one true LIVING mankind”?
No. I am the son of ONE OF THE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS who is a member of the SPECIES known as “mankind”. Do you claim that Jesus is the Son of ONE OF THE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS who is a member of “Godkind”? If so, I ask again; how many INDIVIDUAL BEINGS make up this species of “Godkind”?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011,12:24)
Mike why is it that now the word God is being used by you like it is a “name”?
Keith, “God” is NOT the personal name of our Creator. YHVH is. But Matthew 16:16 and John 3:16, just to name a couple, are scriptures that clearly teach us that Jesus is the Son of the INDIVIDUAL BEING AND PERSON, God. The Father IS The God, but you have some comical idea that The God consists of more than just The Father, even though scriptures clearly and explicitely tell you He doesn't. So because of that, I have to choose words very carefully to convey the point I'm trying to get across to you.You say Jesus is the Son of the being known as the Father. But the scriptural fact of the matter is that Jesus is therefore also the Son of the being known as God. God is ONE SINGLE BEING, because there is only one of Him. And Jesus is the Son OF that one being. And as such, he cannot BE that one being.
You understand this Keith. I know you do. You and your little dog Toto both understand this as clear as a bell. And it saddens me that you must both go to such assinine extremes to keep from simply admitting the known fact that a son is NEVER the same individual being as his father. And if the Father of this particular Son happens to be our ONLY TRUE GOD, then it follows that this particular Son cannot BE the ONLY TRUE GOD he is the Son OF.
mike
Mike said:
Quote Keith, YES Adam and Eve are equally THE SPECIES of adam. But Eve is not the BEING of Adam. Adam and eve are INDEED the same being because being in the PRIMARY sense is substance.
Quote The situation is the same, Aristotle claims, with the term ‘being’. It, too, has a primary sense as well as related senses in which it applies to other things because they are appropriately related to things that are called ‘beings’ in the primary sense. The beings in the primary sense are substances; the beings in other senses are the qualities, quantities, etc., that belong to substances. An animal, e.g., a horse, is a being, and so is a color, e.g, white, a being. But a horse is a being in the primary sense — it is a substance — whereas the color white (a quality) is a being only because it qualifies some substance. An account of the being of anything that is, therefore, will ultimately have to make some reference to substance. Hence, the science of being qua being will involve an account of the central case of beings — substances.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries….iQuaBeiKJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 08 2011,03:45) Mike said: Quote Keith, YES Adam and Eve are equally THE SPECIES of adam. But Eve is not the BEING of Adam. Adam and eve are INDEED the same being because being in the PRIMARY sense is substance.
Quote The situation is the same, Aristotle claims, with the term ‘being’. It, too, has a primary sense as well as related senses in which it applies to other things because they are appropriately related to things that are called ‘beings’ in the primary sense. The beings in the primary sense are substances; the beings in other senses are the qualities, quantities, etc., that belong to substances. An animal, e.g., a horse, is a being, and so is a color, e.g, white, a being. But a horse is a being in the primary sense — it is a substance — whereas the color white (a quality) is a being only because it qualifies some substance. An account of the being of anything that is, therefore, will ultimately have to make some reference to substance. Hence, the science of being qua being will involve an account of the central case of beings — substances.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries….iQuaBeiKJ
Therefore, the Father and the Son are the same being because the Son is the EXACT representation of the Father's substanceQuote The Son is the exact impression of the very nature of God; of His real being. He is one and the same hypostasis repeated. It exists in one form in the Father, in another in the Son. From this point of view, if we take hypostasis in it later, Cappadocian sense (person)we cannot say that the person of the Son is the exact person of the Father because (in Cappadocian terms) the Son is begotten and the Father is not. What is duplicated in the Son is the Father's nature or BEING; which is why he himself could say, 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father' (John 14:9). The Person of Christ, Donald Macleod, IVP, pages 82-83
THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE THE SAME HYPOSTASIS (BEING OR ESSENCE) MIKE! HEBREWS 1 IS VERY CLEAR ABOUT IT! I HAVE SHOWN FROM THE DICTIONARIES THAT THE WORD “BEING” MAY MEAN “ESSENCE.” THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE THE SAME BEING IN THE SENSE THAT THEY ARE THE SAME ESSENCE. BUT THEY ARE INDIVIDUAL, DISTINCT PERSONS AND I HAVE BEEN CLEAR ABOUT IT! YOU AND I ARE THE SAME ESSENCE (OR BEING) MIKE. WE'RE BOTH DUST MIKE! BUT WE'RE INDIVIDUAL PERSONS.
Jack
TO ALL:
I like this quote which I found on another discussion board
Quote Throw in the analogy of one Human Nature but 6.4 billion persons and you've got an easy transition to the more complex issues. If we can have one nature with 6.4 billion persons why is it so hard to fathom that God has one nature and three persons? 
I wonder how many of those 6.4 billion persons have sons who are the same individual being as they are?
Jack, ask your buddy how many human BEINGS there are on the planet. See if he answers “ONE”.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,19:17) ATTENTION ALL: The English transliteration underneath the Hebrew words in Genesis 1:27 and 6:7 in the Hebrew Interlinear is “e adm” (the adam).
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen6.pdf
All men are “e adm” (the adam) and therefore have the SAME identity.
Identity 1. sameness of essential character
KJ
Hi Adam, it is Adam here.
How is Adam, Adam told me he was going to Adams place today.BTW, how is he? The human race that is.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2011,13:55) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 05 2011,19:17) ATTENTION ALL: The English transliteration underneath the Hebrew words in Genesis 1:27 and 6:7 in the Hebrew Interlinear is “e adm” (the adam).
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen6.pdf
All men are “e adm” (the adam) and therefore have the SAME identity.
Identity 1. sameness of essential character
KJ
Hi Adam, it is Adam here.
How is Adam, Adam told me he was going to Adams place today.BTW, how is he? The human race that is.
t8,Why do you mock the word of truth dude?
26 Then God said, “Let Us make adam in Our image, according to Our likeness; let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created the adam in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created THEM.
We're all one dude! This is elementary but you must deny even the elementary things to hold to your false doctrines.
Jesus said,
“If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?”
KJ
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