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Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 26 2011,04:48) MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY! Tim
Hi Tim,Merry CHRISTmas to you too!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,03:58) Quote (princess @ Dec. 25 2011,10:38) You will not even acknowledge that there are multiple stories of creation in your rule book, but try to argue the fact of design. How does that work?
What are you talking about, Princess?
Are you implying that the Omniscient Creator of All Things is only capable of creating things in ONE way? Why would you ever think that, foolish girl?
Quote (princess @ Dec. 25 2011,10:38) And yes, you boo hooed about Nick when you first came on the board, enough that Nick had enough and left. Then all of sudden you have a mods status……hum………..at bit of a Caesar in you.
Whoa! Talk about your conspiracy theories!
Nick and I had many wonderful discussions, and I learned a lot from him. Do you have evidence that Nick resigned because of me? Do you think I petitioned to become a moderator?If I were you, I'd refrain from posting until your flow is gone and your hormones are back in check; because right now, you are making a complete fool of yourself.
Caesar Mike,Your God is a fool and you reflect him well. However, will you be the one that stands and says Lord Lord I served you well, and he will say depart from me I never knew you…..50/50 chance there buddy.
Seriously, you cannot explain away Genesis so you say my God can do what he wants and make as many humans as he wants and how he wants, he just cant make them like the evolutionist say, and you call me foolish. K.
Sorry Mike, men like you are worthless with your insults about women in such areas.
Mike, you really are ignorant in areas, or just cannot face up to things one of the two. So hows that blood God of yours?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,04:44) Quote (princess @ Dec. 25 2011,14:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2011,01:37) BTW T8, On the previous page, Stu's avatar is a blank square with a little red “x” in the upper left corner. I can see everyone else's though.
Oh Mike,Stuart has stated many times to T8 and others, you really believe donkeys can talk, well with your comments I fully believe they can type to.
The God you believe in is a fool, and only takes the foolish with him. You would not even be able to phantom the truth, for it would ruin your comfortable “Paul” zone.
You are the one that persecuted Nick for his doings you have proceeded him by ten fold.
At least Nick believed fully, you on the other hand have no grace about you whatsoever. It seems when Stuart brings something to the table you cannot answer and you coward into a corner with no fight in you.
Hi Princess,If you went and seen a ventriloquist, you would see sock-puppets speak.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Good one Edj, however I can understand the concept your website is even worse…………Hi Princess,
What do you mean by… 'even worse' …even worse than what?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (princess @ Dec. 26 2011,06:57) Caesar Mike, Your God is a fool and you reflect him well. However, will you be the one that stands and says Lord Lord I served you well, and he will say depart from me I never knew you…..50/50 chance there buddy.
Does that mean that you have a 50% chance of insulting God by calling him a fool?Scripture also says that calling a person a fool is in danger of everlasting fire.
That doesn't leave you in a good spot right now according to scripture.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2011,01:37) Btw t8, On the previous page, Stu's avatar is a blank square with a little red “x” in the upper left corner. I can see everyone else's though.
Hmmm.He is definitely a fully developed ape with his hand over his face on my computers.
Try right-clicking on the image and go properties, then copy the path of the image and then paste that address into the browser. Some browsers have the option to open the image in a new browser tab too. If the square appears again, try hitting the CTRL and R keys at the same time. Now you will be reloading the image specifically.
Let me know if you see the blind ape after that?
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 26 2011,11:48) MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY! Tim
timi do not believe in fairy tales
Pierre
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 26 2011,00:42) Hmmm. He is definitely a fully developed ape with his hand over his face on my computers.
Sometimes he shows, and other times not. But I already know what an ape looks like, so it's no big deal to me. I just pointed it out so you could check for a possible glitch in your system.
Quote (princess @ Dec. 25 2011,13:57) Seriously, you cannot explain away Genesis so you say my God can do what he wants and make as many humans as he wants and how he wants, he just cant make them like the evolutionist say, and you call me foolish. K.
Hmmm…………how did you get the bolded part of your quote from my question:“Are you implying that the Omniscient Creator of All Things is only capable of creating things in ONE way? “
Princess, please refrain from speaking to me unless you have something substantial to add to the discussion, okay?
Right now, I am trying to get an answer as to why canines and humans have the cognitive ability to look to where someone is pointing, but the apes we supposedly evolved from do not.
Do you have any idea why dogs, who are lower down the evolutionary ladder, have this ability, when the apes that we are the closest to do not? Can you give a guess as to why this ability skipped over the apes on the way to humans, but remains in less intelligent animals such as canines?
To me, this represents a wrinkle in the theory of evolution. If you can iron out this wrinkle for me, great! If not, please talk to someone else for a while.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,00:54) Right now, I am trying to get an answer as to why canines and humans have the cognitive ability to look to where someone is pointing, but the apes we supposedly evolved from do not. Do you have any idea why dogs, who are lower down the evolutionary ladder, have this ability, when the apes that we are the closest to do not? Can you give a guess as to why this ability skipped over the apes on the way to humans, but remains in less intelligent animals such as canines?
To me, this represents a wrinkle in the theory of evolution. If you can iron out this wrinkle for me, great! If not, please talk to someone else for a while.
Hi Mike,If you are really serious about the answer to this question I will give you one.
Humans are the only species that seem to intuitively have the cognitive ability to understand what pointing means.
Even then it may be a learned experience.When a small child wants something he will reach out for it.
Extending the hand and fingers in a reach probably gets him some results. An adult will give them what they are reaching for, or at least some attention. This reaching easily becomes pointing that gets results.Dogs do NOT intuitively understand pointing but they can be taught to , at least a high percentage of the time, go to an object that is pointed at. This is a learned action just like sitting, staying and retrieving. Some dogs are better at it than others.
Apes will follow the gaze of other apes, or humans. Very similar to following a pointing finger. They probably did not develop the same pointing finger function because their hands were busy hanging on to branches.
Tim
Of course I'm serious about it, Tim. And I appreciate your attempt, but I highly doubt that “Their hands were too busy doing other things” is the reason. In the show where I saw this, they tried hard to TRAIN apes this ability – to no avail.
Yet dogs and little baby humans were hip to the technique immediately, as if this knowledge was inbred or something.
I don't know which show you watched, but it is not inbred in dogs.
They have to be trained to follow a point.
I think I gave a pretty good explanation of how a baby can learn that pointing is beneficial.Humans, after all, do have the capacity to learn more quickly than do other mammals.
Are you only looking for an answer that refutes evolution?
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 26 2011,14:11) I think I gave a pretty good explanation of how a baby can learn that pointing is beneficial. Humans, after all, do have the capacity to learn more quickly than do other mammals.
Okay, then WHY do you suppose dogs CAN learn this when apes, with their higher intellectual ability, cannot?HI Mike,
Dogs intuitively understand following a point because they have been so domesticated that they have an unusual affinity with humans. There have been interesting tests done that show that wolves do not have this same instinct to follow the point or gaze of a human. Wolves of course are not domesticated.
I believe that you are truly interested in the subject, and I am not wasting my time, so I searched and found
this paper by Janni Pederson, Iowa State University, Department of Anthropology and Department of Philosophy Great Ape Trust of Iowa
http://iastate.academia.edu/JanniPedersen/Papers/331275/Why_Apes_PointYou might read this paper if you are really interested in the ability of apes to understand pointing.
Incidentally, I thought that this point was very interesting in the paper. It seems to agree with my original idea.
“Great apes are mainly quadropedal while humans are bipedal. This difference is expressed already from infancy where infant apes cling to their mothers, which contrasts with the situation of human children who are carried. This means that apes most frequently do not have their hands free for index finger pointing.”The paper also points out that while studying bonobos it was discovered that,
“The gesture of pointing is not uniquely human. Rather , enculturated and language competent bonobos spontaneously developed the use of their index finger to point at appropriate junctures in a conversation.”Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 28 2011,06:31) HI Mike, Dogs intuitively understand following a point because they have been so domesticated that they have an unusual affinity with humans. There have been interesting tests done that show that wolves do not have this same instinct to follow the point or gaze of a human. Wolves of course are not domesticated.
I believe that you are truly interested in the subject, and I am not wasting my time, so I searched and found
this paper by Janni Pederson, Iowa State University, Department of Anthropology and Department of Philosophy Great Ape Trust of Iowa
http://iastate.academia.edu/JanniPedersen/Papers/331275/Why_Apes_PointYou might read this paper if you are really interested in the ability of apes to understand pointing.
Incidentally, I thought that this point was very interesting in the paper. It seems to agree with my original idea.
“Great apes are mainly quadropedal while humans are bipedal. This difference is expressed already from infancy where infant apes cling to their mothers, which contrasts with the situation of human children who are carried. This means that apes most frequently do not have their hands free for index finger pointing.”The paper also points out that while studying bonobos it was discovered that,
“The gesture of pointing is not uniquely human. Rather , enculturated and language competent bonobos spontaneously developed the use of their index finger to point at appropriate junctures in a conversation.”Tim
frankthis question bothers me and have to ask;;here it is ;
when the computers robots will become common enough and doing thing way better than human and animals ,would this mean that now they will become a smarter species
,and declared them to have evolve from humans ???and so explain evolution ,and so discredit the humans that made themjust like to see your answer
Pierre
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 27 2011,06:31) You might read this paper if you are really interested in the ability of apes to understand pointing.
I am. And I skimmed it quickly for now. It seems to me that I've accidently tripped over a bombshell, for this is obviously a big question for evolutionists, too.
The first thing I noticed is that they worked hard to find apes with “relevant humanlike cultural rearing”. They had to find apes reared in a culture where finger pointing has a meaningful function.
My question is WHY would pointing be a “meaningful function” for the human species, and not for the apes we supposedly evolved from?
But I will read more when I get the time. Thank you for your research into it, Tim.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,01:54) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 27 2011,06:31) You might read this paper if you are really interested in the ability of apes to understand pointing.
I am. And I skimmed it quickly for now. It seems to me that I've accidently tripped over a bombshell, for this is obviously a big question for evolutionists, too.The first thing I noticed is that they worked hard to find apes with “relevant humanlike cultural rearing”. They had to find apes reared in a culture where finger pointing has a meaningful function.
My question is WHY would pointing be a “meaningful function” for the human species, and not for the apes we supposedly evolved from?
But I will read more when I get the time. Thank you for your research into it, Tim.
very well said Mikein-fact that simply shows that animals can be taught. Go to a house with a trained dog wherever his master points the dog goes but when the trainer tells the dog to attack someone the dog will not pay any attention to that person pointing at all it will simply attack.
Animals have to have intelligence for us to be able to control them and utilize them there is never an argument as to whether animals are intelligent but that doesn't lend credence to some biological connection to humans.
If you ever imagine the strength of any kind of monkey even a very small one you would have to then believe that evolution somehow robbed us of muscular strength and that wouldn't make sense to devolve such a strong survival aspect as strength
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2011,01:54) The first thing I noticed is that they worked hard to find apes with “relevant humanlike cultural rearing”. They had to find apes reared in a culture where finger pointing has a meaningful function.
Right Mike, that makes perfect sense.Millions of dogs have been raised with humans for thousands of years. Very few apes have. I would expect to have to work very hard to find relevant humanlike cultural rearing.
Tim
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2011,04:37) If you ever imagine the strength of any kind of monkey even a very small one you would have to then believe that evolution somehow robbed us of muscular strength and that wouldn't make sense to devolve such a strong survival aspect as strength
Hi Bod,You don't seem to understand evolution very well.
It would make perfect sense that as brain power became more important to survival than strength, strength would “devolve”.Tim
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