Atheism

[Stu]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,06:30)

Goodness!   I keep hearing a bunch of talk about me, but I have yet to see the first scripture that commands ME PERSONALLY to do any of the things you guys keep saying the scriptures command Christians to do. LIST A SCRIPTURE, FOLKS! (The women speaking in church doesn't apply to me, because I don't go to a church.  The Jehovah's Witnesses probably come the closest to how I understand scriptures, and if it weren't for a couple key issues, I would join that organization.  And they DON'T let the women speak before the congregation.  And when a woman, by necessity, has to say a prayer or lead a book study, they cover their heads.) SO…………………..  what's next?  Just more talk?   I'm anxious to read the scripture that requires ME to kill, sacrifice, rape, steal, torture, etc.

Deuteronomy 17:2-7 specifically tells you you must kill people who have served other gods. It is very clear about your responsibility to do that.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 20 2012,06:58)

When did God say that … slavery is always unrighteous?

What is your god's ethical argument for the righteousness of slavery?

Stuart

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 19 2012,14:44)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,06:30) Goodness!   I keep hearing a bunch of talk about me, but I have yet to see the first scripture that commands ME PERSONALLY to do any of the things you guys keep saying the scriptures command Christians to do. LIST A SCRIPTURE, FOLKS! Deuteronomy 17:2-7 specifically tells you you must kill people who have served other gods.  It is very clear about your responsibility to do that. Stuart

Deuteronomy 2:2
2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you…………..

Oops. Yahweh hasn't given me any town. Try again.

(And thanks Stu, for actually listing a scripture instead of more empty talk.)

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2012,23:13)

I am just saying that Slavery just like violence while you may not like it does not mean there is not good purpose for it. You simply assume things you dislike are bad and things you like are good, right?

It has nothing to do with what I like.  It has to do with ethics, and there is no ethical argument that justifies slavery.

As Stu has pointed out, if you weren't stuck in the 15th century due to your affinity for ancient “holy” books, you wouldn't be arguing for slavery either.

By the way, have you sat down with any African Americans and explained to them how you think slavery isn't wrong, per se?

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2012,23:15)

Can you see the Sun at night? so what does visibility of the sun have to do with the sun being present?

Here's the actual issue that I brought up:

How is there day and night with no visible sun?

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,01:30)

(The women speaking in church doesn't apply to me, because I don't go to a church.  The Jehovah's Witnesses probably come the closest to how I understand scriptures, and if it weren't for a couple key issues, I would join that organization.  And they DON'T let the women speak before the congregation.  And when a woman, by necessity, has to say a prayer or lead a book study, they cover their heads.)

Sounds like you would gladly silence women if you attended church.  That's called sexism.  (I think Stu has tried to educate you on this topic once already.)

I'll chalk that up as one “bad thing” the bible asks of you.

[mikeboll64]

Why WIT?  Because YOU say it's “bad”?  

Can I put you in touch with millions of JW wives who are completely happy with the fact that God created them as a helper to man, and that man is the head of women?

In fact, that's the way it's been in society for thousands of years.  It's STILL that way in many countries.  So a movement in America that makes it politically incorrect for a woman to be submissive to her husband as the head of the household doesn't hold a candle to doing things the way God intended them to be done.

If I decide to marry, the woman will be a Christian, and she will be okay with the man being the head of the woman, as millions of submissive, God-fearing wives are.

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 20 2012,13:58)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2012,04:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 20 2012,11:13) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 20 2012,02:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2012,06:00) Actually slavery was temporary in most cases so you are wrong there. Leviticus 25:44-46 And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.  Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.  And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor. I think that you are confusing slavery with indentured servitude.  The bible advocates both, but only non-Hebrews could be enslaved.  Indentured servitude involved paying off debts and was, in fact, a temporary condition.  As shown above, slavery was not. Quote Your thoughts on slavery are not inaccurate from a wordly stand point they are simply inaccurate from a more spiritually developed standpoint. Well, the only slavery that I know about is “worldly” slavery.  I have no idea what you mean, or even could possibly mean, by spiritual slavery.  In any case, it doesn't sound like something that I would want to involved in. I am just saying that Slavery just like violence while you may not like it does not mean there is not good purpose for it. You simply assume things you dislike are bad and things you like are good, right? bod Quote I am just saying that Slavery just like violence while you may not like it does not mean there is not good purpose for it. You simply assume things you dislike are bad and things you like are good, right? this statement is totally untrue,righteousness and unrighteousness as nothing to do with what someone likes or dislikes Pierre You must have misunderstood I just said what you said. When did God say that violence and or slavery is always unrighteous?

bod

got it ,but there could be a good purpose for it ,if it is done for the benefit of both master and slave

Pierre

[TimothyVI]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,08:14)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 19 2012,14:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,06:30) Goodness!   I keep hearing a bunch of talk about me, but I have yet to see the first scripture that commands ME PERSONALLY to do any of the things you guys keep saying the scriptures command Christians to do. LIST A SCRIPTURE, FOLKS! Deuteronomy 17:2-7 specifically tells you you must kill people who have served other gods.  It is very clear about your responsibility to do that. Stuart Deuteronomy 2:2 2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you………….. Oops.  Yahweh hasn't given me any town.  Try again. (And thanks Stu, for actually listing a scripture instead of more empty talk.)

What about this one Mike,
It doesn't have anything to do with a town that God gave you.
Are you going to kill your friend or brother because he doesn't believe in your God?

“If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.”   (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Before you try to wiggle out because you are not a Hebrew, and he didn't say it to you personally.
He gave this command to anyone who believes in him as the one true God.

Tim

[TimothyVI]

To all,

God commanded “Thou shalt not kill.”
But He wasn't talking to me personally.

God commanded ” Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
But He wasn't talking to me personally.

God commanded ” Thou shalt not steal.”
But He wasn't talking to me personally.

God commanded ” Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.”
But He wasn't talking to me personally.

God commanded ” Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.”
But He wasn't talking to me personally.

God preceded all of these commandments with these words, ” And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.”

I don't have to obey these. God never brought me out of the land of Egypt.

This is Mike's excuse for not obeying the bible.

Tim
edited to correct spelling

[terraricca]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 21 2012,07:08)

To all, God commanded “Thou shalt not kill.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not commit adultery.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not steal.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God preceded all of these commandments with these words, ” And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.” I don't have to obey these. God never brought me out of the land of Egypt. This is Mike's excuse for not obeying the bible. Tim edited to correct spelling

Tim

Do you know what a covenant is ?

Do you know what a oath is ?

Do you know what are rules ,commandments,

Do you know men ?

Please tell me if you do,

Pierre

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,03:46)

Why WIT?  Because YOU say it's “bad”?

Is sexism bad, Mike?  If not, please explain how it makes ethical or moral sense to automatically favor a man over a woman.

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 20 2012,19:08)

To all, God commanded “Thou shalt not kill.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. … This is Mike's excuse for not obeying the bible.

Perfectly illustrated!  Nice job.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,00:27)

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 21 2012,07:08) To all, God commanded “Thou shalt not kill.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not commit adultery.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not steal.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God preceded all of these commandments with these words, ” And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.” I don't have to obey these. God never brought me out of the land of Egypt. This is Mike's excuse for not obeying the bible. Tim edited to correct spelling Tim Do you know what a covenant is ? Do you know what a oath is ? Do you know what are rules ,commandments, Do you know men ? Please tell me if you do, Pierre

Pierre,

Do you know what you are talking about?

Tim

[terraricca]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 21 2012,08:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,00:27) Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 21 2012,07:08) To all, God commanded “Thou shalt not kill.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not commit adultery.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not steal.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God commanded ” Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.” But He wasn't talking to me personally. God preceded all of these commandments with these words, ” And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.” I don't have to obey these. God never brought me out of the land of Egypt. This is Mike's excuse for not obeying the bible. Tim edited to correct spelling Tim Do you know what a covenant is ? Do you know what a oath is ? Do you know what are rules ,commandments, Do you know men ? Please tell me if you do, Pierre Pierre, Do you know what you are talking about? Tim

tim

yes i do ,but you do not ,

Pierre

[TimothyVI]

O.K. then.
I am in awe of your superior intellect.

Tim

[princess]

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 21 2012,01:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,03:46) Why WIT?  Because YOU say it's “bad”?   Is sexism bad, Mike?  If not, please explain how it makes ethical or moral sense to automatically favor a man over a woman.

I know the answer to this WIT, have had this discussion with Mike before, his answer is:

I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 20 2012,23:11)

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 21 2012,01:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,03:46) Why WIT?  Because YOU say it's “bad”?   Is sexism bad, Mike?  If not, please explain how it makes ethical or moral sense to automatically favor a man over a woman. I know the answer to this WIT, have had this discussion with Mike before, his answer is: I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

If that's the case, then I would ask him if he was a sexist before his conversion, or if he owes that entirely to the bible.

It would also be interesting to see if he can, in fact, defend this position on ethical grounds.

[terraricca]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 21 2012,11:11)

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 21 2012,01:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,03:46) Why WIT?  Because YOU say it's “bad”?   Is sexism bad, Mike?  If not, please explain how it makes ethical or moral sense to automatically favor a man over a woman. I know the answer to this WIT, have had this discussion with Mike before, his answer is: I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

PRINCESS

men and women,or women and men ?

did not God created man first ? yes

but is not man comes from women ?yes

who as advantage ? no one

but the heart of men and women stinks,this is why we have that discussion ,

in Gods way both sexes can bring out the best of the heart,with the up most love for each other,

men, for care and help were she needed ,

women ,to be supporting her share in one,with love and care and bare children,for the happiness of both and for God,

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 20 2012,07:47)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 20 2012,06:58) When did God say that … slavery is always unrighteous? What is your god's ethical argument for the righteousness of slavery? Stuart

Hi Stuart,

BD will not go against what Mo says.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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