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Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2012,18:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2012,01:36) Ed, do you have expert testimony to provide that shows how “el” or “elohim” mean “almighty”? YES or NO? If not, can we accept “mighty one” and move on?
Hi Mike,Strong's Hebrew #410
Shortened from 'ayil; strength; as adjective,
mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity)Almighty when referring to YHVH – mighty when referring to others.
So the word actually MEANS “mighty”, but is used “especially of the Almighty” God?Yet the word is “used also of ANY deity”, right?
So, does the MEANING of the word actually CHANGE when it is used of Jehovah? Or does the word always mean “mighty”, and many times REFERS TO the Almighty One?
Nevermind. In the effort to get this thread moving and stop playing your games, let's just focus on the actual definition you gave: mighty.
Can we now use that definition and move on with this discussion?
Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,20:31) mike, is Christ Lord or lord?
Well, since the Greek NT was written in ALL capital letters, Jesus is actually “LORD”. But the masters of slaves were also “LORDS”, according to the Greek text.
Don't play games with capital letters, jammin. Translators have decided when and if to cap the first letter of the words in the scriptures. Don't read too much into it, okay?
Btw, your line of questioning doesn't belong in this thread. We are discussing whether or not, SCRIPTURALLY SPEAKING, there exist more than one “elohim”.
Ed,
This info is about Isaiah 2:18……….
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
18. idols-literally, “vain things,” “nothings” (1Co 8:4).Do you see that even though the word is usually TRANSLATED AS “idols”, the Hebrew word literally MEANS “nothings”, or “things of no value” – as you have correctly posted earlier?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2012,04:31) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2012,18:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2012,01:35) Ed, A. TO WHOM did the king of Moab sacrifice his son? (Hint: The god of Moab was Chemosh.)
B. WHO brought down the wrath upon the Israelites that Jehovah had just helped to victory? (Hint: Surely Jehovah Himself would not honor a human sacrifice made to a different god, and bring down wrath upon the very people He just led to victory, right?)
Thanks.
Hi Mike,Where is this verse located so I can formulate a response to you?
Ed,The verses are listed right there in the post where you quoted the above words from. The passage is 2 Kings 3:17-27.
2 Kings 3:17-27 For thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain;
yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts.
18 And this is but a light thing in the sight of the LORD: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand.
19 And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree,
and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones.20 And it came to pass in the morning, when the meat offering was offered, that,
behold, there came water by the way of Edom, and the country was filled with water.
21 And when all the Moabites heard that the kings were come up to fight against them,
they gathered all that were able to put on armour, and upward, and stood in the border.22 And they rose up early in the morning, and the sun shone upon the water,
and the Moabites saw the water on the other side as red as blood:
23 And they said, This is blood: the kings are surely slain, and
they have smitten one another: now therefore, Moab, to the spoil.24 And when they came to the camp of Israel, the Israelites rose up and smote the Moabites,
so that they fled before them: but they went forward smiting the Moabites, even in their country.
25 And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone,
and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees:
only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it.26 And when the king of Moab saw that the battle was too sore for him, he took with him
seven hundred men that drew swords, to break through even unto the king of Edom: but they could not.
27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall.
And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 06 2012,06:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2012,04:31) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2012,18:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2012,01:35) Ed, A. TO WHOM did the king of Moab sacrifice his son? (Hint: The god of Moab was Chemosh.)
B. WHO brought down the wrath upon the Israelites that Jehovah had just helped to victory? (Hint: Surely Jehovah Himself would not honor a human sacrifice made to a different god, and bring down wrath upon the very people He just led to victory, right?)
Thanks.
Hi Mike,Where is this verse located so I can formulate a response to you?
Ed,The verses are listed right there in the post where you quoted the above words from. The passage is 2 Kings 3:17-27.
2 Kings 3:17-27 For thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain;
yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts.
18 And this is but a light thing in the sight of the LORD: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand.
19 And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree,
and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones.20 And it came to pass in the morning, when the meat offering was offered, that,
behold, there came water by the way of Edom, and the country was filled with water.
21 And when all the Moabites heard that the kings were come up to fight against them,
they gathered all that were able to put on armour, and upward, and stood in the border.22 And they rose up early in the morning, and the sun shone upon the water,
and the Moabites saw the water on the other side as red as blood:
23 And they said, This is blood: the kings are surely slain, and
they have smitten one another: now therefore, Moab, to the spoil.24 And when they came to the camp of Israel, the Israelites rose up and smote the Moabites,
so that they fled before them: but they went forward smiting the Moabites, even in their country.
25 And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone,
and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees:
only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it.26 And when the king of Moab saw that the battle was too sore for him, he took with him
seven hundred men that drew swords, to break through even unto the king of Edom: but they could not.
27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall.
And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.
Hi Mike,King of Moab sacrificing his son
and great indignation against Israel
I don't see how these are connected – can you explain?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2012,04:38) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2012,18:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2012,01:36) Ed, do you have expert testimony to provide that shows how “el” or “elohim” mean “almighty”? YES or NO? If not, can we accept “mighty one” and move on?
Hi Mike,Strong's Hebrew #410
Shortened from 'ayil; strength; as adjective,
mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity)Almighty when referring to YHVH – mighty when referring to others.
So the word actually MEANS “mighty”, but is used “especially of the Almighty” God?Yet the word is “used also of ANY deity”, right?
So, does the MEANING of the word actually CHANGE when it is used of Jehovah? Or does the word always mean “mighty”, and many times REFERS TO the Almighty One?
Nevermind. In the effort to get this thread moving and stop playing your games, let's just focus on the actual definition you gave: mighty.
Can we now use that definition and move on with this discussion?
Yes Mike,The meaning of a word is based on its usage.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2012,05:20) Ed, This info is about Isaiah 2:18……….
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
18. idols-literally, “vain things,” “nothings” (1Co 8:4).Do you see that even though the word is usually TRANSLATED AS “idols”, the Hebrew word literally MEANS “nothings”, or “things of no value” – as you have correctly posted earlier?
Hi Mike,It means 'IDOL' as well. (as I have correctly posted earlier)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2012,04:42) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 04 2012,20:31) mike, is Christ Lord or lord?
Well, since the Greek NT was written in ALL capital letters, Jesus is actually “LORD”. But the masters of slaves were also “LORDS”, according to the Greek text.Don't play games with capital letters, jammin. Translators have decided when and if to cap the first letter of the words in the scriptures. Don't read too much into it, okay?
Btw, your line of questioning doesn't belong in this thread. We are discussing whether or not, SCRIPTURALLY SPEAKING, there exist more than one “elohim”.
im not playing games boyanswer my question
is Christ Lord or lord?
mike said:
Don't play games with capital letters, jammin. Translators have decided when and if to cap the first letter of the words in the scriptures. Don't read too much into it, okay?
————–
therefore you believe that the translators of NWT used god in john 1.1 and not God just to support their doctrine that Christ is god and not God.good answer boy. this clearly says that you are a false teacher LOL
Yes jammin,
The translators of the NWT decided to cap the “G” in “God” ONLY when the word referred to the MOST HIGH God.
I agree with that decision. The Trinitarian translators, on the other hand, idiotically believe that the Son of God IS the very God he is the Son of, and so have chosen to cap the “G” in “God” when it refers to Jesus, also.
Personally, I have no problem with capping the “G” for Jesus, or capping the “L” in “Lord”, for he is the second most powerful being in the universe, and he is the Savior that our God and his God SENT to die for our sins.
But BECAUSE of the Trini's on this site, I usually stick with the small “g” for Jesus, because I don't want to give the impression that I too idiotically believe Jesus is the very God he is the Son of.
Does that answer all your questions? Can you now try to stick to the topic?
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,13:49) Hi Mike, King of Moab sacrificing his son
and great indignation against Israel
I don't see how these are connected – can you explain?
Really Ed? I'm about to bail from yet another of our discussions because of your stupid games.Let's see……………………
First, the Israelites were kicking serious butt, and not letting up.
THEN, the king of Moab sacrificed his son to (assumingly) his god Chemosh.
THEN, wrath came on Israel, causing them to stop kicking serious butt and flee to their homes.
What do YOU suppose happened, Ed? Why do YOU suppose the Isralites just abruptly stopped the carnage, and fled for their homes?
As for the definitions, I'm done playing games Ed. You can either accept the FACT that “el” and “elohim” basically mean “mighty one”, or you can bugger off.
This was meant to be a SERIOUS discussion for SERIOUS people. I am truly sorry that none of the others ventured over here to learn some things about SCRIPTURAL truth.
But what I'm teaching in this thread is hard for many people to swallow – because of what they've been taught all their lives. Like you, they don't really want to know they've been wrong about it all this time. But unlike you, they just stay away instead of coming here and wasting my time with silly children's games.
Get serious, or get lost Ed.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2012,12:16) Yes jammin, The translators of the NWT decided to cap the “G” in “God” ONLY when the word referred to the MOST HIGH God.
I agree with that decision. The Trinitarian translators, on the other hand, idiotically believe that the Son of God IS the very God he is the Son of, and so have chosen to cap the “G” in “God” when it refers to Jesus, also.
Personally, I have no problem with capping the “G” for Jesus, or capping the “L” in “Lord”, for he is the second most powerful being in the universe, and he is the Savior that our God and his God SENT to die for our sins.
But BECAUSE of the Trini's on this site, I usually stick with the small “g” for Jesus, because I don't want to give the impression that I too idiotically believe Jesus is the very God he is the Son of.
Does that answer all your questions? Can you now try to stick to the topic?
yes bec the translators do not believe that Christ is equal with God.but the apostle paul said he is equal with God.
phil 2.6most of bible says that Christ is God and not god.
why dont you make your own bible mike for you to have two bibles that say Christ is god LOL
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2012,12:20) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 05 2012,13:49) Hi Mike, King of Moab sacrificing his son
and great indignation against Israel
I don't see how these are connected – can you explain?
Really Ed? I'm about to bail from yet another of our discussions because of your stupid games.Let's see……………………
First, the Israelites were kicking serious butt, and not letting up.
THEN, the king of Moab sacrificed his son to (assumingly) his god Chemosh.
THEN, wrath came on Israel, causing them to stop kicking serious butt and flee to their homes.
What do YOU suppose happened, Ed? Why do YOU suppose the Isralites just abruptly stopped the carnage, and fled for their homes?
Hi Mike,Was the king of Moab fighting with Israel or against Israel?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2012,12:24) Get serious, or get lost Ed.
Hi Mike,I'm always serious when it comes to God.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 06 2012,19:29) Hi Mike, Was the king of Moab fighting with Israel or against Israel?
Against. And he was losing badly UNTIL he sacrificed his son on he wall. THEN wrath came down upon his ENEMIES, the Israelites, causing them to all flee for their homes.Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 06 2012,19:30) I'm always serious when it comes to God.
Then prove it. Do you have ANY scholarly information that shows “elohim” DOES NOT mean “mighty one”? In other words, I've shown you that it DOES. Can you refute what I've shown you?Quote (jammin @ Aug. 06 2012,19:26) yes bec the translators do not believe that Christ is equal with God.
That's because any christ (anointed one) OF God cannot possibly be the God who anointed him, nor can he be equal to the God who anointed him.Therefore, Jesus Christ is NOT equal to HIS OWN God. He even tells us his God is greater than him.
jammin, this thread has a purpose. Stick to that purpose.
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