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Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,12:37) Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2012,19:26) Keep studying my friend.
do not stumble on words my friend
no sweatQuote (Wakeup @ July 26 2012,21:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,13:31) Wakeup, John 17:3 speaks of TWO, one of whom is the only true God, and the OTHER of whom is Jesus.
Do you agree?
I completely agree.
Okay.Then does that make Jesus a “false god”?
Quote (Wakeup @ July 26 2012,21:15) God does everything BY HIS WORD.(there are no two different words).
I completely disagree. The word “logos” refers to MANY different things in the scriptures. Sometimes it refers to any spoken or written word from ANYONE, other times to words God has spoken to humans through angels, visions, etc, and other times it refers to the TITLE of God's main spokesman Jesus Christ.But this discussion is better suited to the “Who is the Word” thread, and so I will move this question and response over there.
Wakeup, this thread is to determine whether or not, scripturally speaking, there are more than one god in existence.
Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2012,22:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:42) Hi All, I have fought an uphill battle here with most people, who won't acknowledge the scriptural truth that there exist many gods, of whom Jehovah is the Most High.
Hi Mike,Many Eloheems and many gods are two very different things; but you already know that, right?
And you acknowledge the existence of many elohim in scripture, right Ed?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2012,03:08) And you acknowledge the existence of many elohim in scripture, right Ed?
YepSo then you know that when Jehovah says, “apart from me there is no elohim“, it does not mean that Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY elohim in existence, right?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2012,06:47) So then you know that when Jehovah says, “apart from me there is no elohim“, it does not mean that Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY elohim in existence, right?
Hi Mike,God not being bound by time knew that “English” would refine his message – so no.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgReally?
This is from the ENGLISH Webster's Dictionary:
god:
any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of natureEd, just admit you have lost this one, and that “no elohim apart from me” is an EMPHATIC statement, meaning that Jehovah is ABOVE all the other elohim He created.
Ed, we both know that Jehovah is the “God of gods”, right? Can you tell me who these “non-existent” gods are that Jehovah is the God of?
Hi Mike, what does this verse mean to you? …No meaning?
“Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there 'a God' beside me? yea,
there is NO God; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed, what does this verse mean to you?
“Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is NO elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)What does it mean for Jehovah to say there are no other elohim, when we know from scripture that there are many?
Please explain.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,04:51) Hi Ed, what does this verse mean to you? “Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is NO elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)What does it mean for Jehovah to say there are no other elohim, when we know from scripture that there are many?
Please explain.
Hi Mike,God (not being bound by time) knew that the English “AKJV Bible” would refine his message of no other gods.
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgFYI from the UB:
“To the Jews, Elohim was the God of gods”
104:1.8 The Hebrews knew about the Trinity from the Kenite traditions of the days of Melchizedek, but their monotheistic zeal for the one God, Yahweh, so eclipsed all such teachings that by the time of Jesus’ appearance the Elohim doctrine had been practically eradicated from Jewish theology. The Hebrew mind could not reconcile the trinitarian concept with the monotheistic belief in the One Lord, the God of Israel.
169:4.8 To the Jews, Elohim was the God of gods, while Yahweh was the God of Israel. Jesus accepted the concept of Elohim and called this supreme group of beings God. In the place of the concept of Yahweh, the racial deity, he introduced the idea of the fatherhood of God and the world-wide brotherhood of man. He exalted the Yahweh concept of a deified racial Father to the idea of a Father of all the children of men, a divine Father of the individual believer. And he further taught that this God of universes and this Father of all men were one and the same Paradise Deity.
169:4.9 Jesus never claimed to be the manifestation of Elohim (God) in the flesh. He never declared that he was a revelation of Elohim (God) to the worlds. He never taught that he who had seen him had seen Elohim (God). But he did proclaim himself as the revelation of the Father in the flesh, and he did say that whoso had seen him had seen the Father. As the divine Son he claimed to represent only the Father.
169:4.10 He was, indeed, the Son of even the Elohim God; but in the likeness of mortal flesh and to the mortal sons of God, he chose to limit his life revelation to the portrayal of his Father’s character in so far as such a revelation might be comprehensible to mortal man. As regards the character of the other persons of the Paradise Trinity, we shall have to be content with the teaching that they are altogether like the Father, who has been revealed in personal portraiture in the life of his incarnated Son, Jesus of Nazareth.
Colter
Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2012,07:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,04:51) Hi Ed, what does this verse mean to you? “Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is NO elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)What does it mean for Jehovah to say there are no other elohim, when we know from scripture that there are many?
Please explain.
Hi Mike,God (not being bound by time) knew that the English “AKJV Bible” would refine his message of no other gods.
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdJ.IS THERE ANY GOD BESIDE ME? NO THERE IS NO GOD:
ARE YOU ARGUING WITH GOD BY SAYING; YES THERE ARE OTHER GODS? YES/NO.wakeup.
Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2012,14:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,04:51) Hi Ed, what does this verse mean to you? “Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is NO elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)What does it mean for Jehovah to say there are no other elohim, when we know from scripture that there are many?
Please explain.
Hi Mike,God (not being bound by time) knew that the English “AKJV Bible” would refine his message of no other gods.
Not only is that an absurd claim, it doesn't even work because the KJV also speaks of many gods, of which Jehovah is THE God.Quote (Wakeup @ July 29 2012,17:21) EdJ. IS THERE ANY GOD BESIDE ME? NO THERE IS NO GOD:
ARE YOU ARGUING WITH GOD BY SAYING; YES THERE ARE OTHER GODS? YES/NO.
What do you make of that verse, Wakeup? How can God say there are no other ELOHIM, when scripture is loaded with those whom even HE calls “elohim”?I understand it as an emphatic statement, like Jeff Gordon saying, “There are no other race car drivers but me” – meaning he is the BEST, not LITERALLY the ONLY one.
Quote (Wakeup @ July 30 2012,10:21) Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2012,07:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,04:51) Hi Ed, what does this verse mean to you? “Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is NO elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)What does it mean for Jehovah to say there are no other elohim, when we know from scripture that there are many?
Please explain.
Hi Mike,God (not being bound by time) knew that the English “AKJV Bible” would refine his message of no other gods.
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdJ.IS THERE ANY GOD BESIDE ME? NO THERE IS NO GOD:
ARE YOU ARGUING WITH GOD BY SAYING; YES THERE ARE OTHER GODS? YES/NO.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,There are no other God's.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,11:38) Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2012,14:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,04:51) Hi Ed, what does this verse mean to you? “Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is NO elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)What does it mean for Jehovah to say there are no other elohim, when we know from scripture that there are many?
Please explain.
Hi Mike,God (not being bound by time) knew that the English “AKJV Bible” would refine his message of no other gods.
Not only is that an absurd claim, it doesn't even work because the KJV also speaks of many gods, of which Jehovah is THE God.
MikeB.God does not recognise any false gods of stone and wood as Gods. there is only one true God the other SO CALLED GODS ARE MEN MADE GODS. There fore as far as God is concerne;there is no other God but God.
What about the son of God? Is he not to be worshipped as God? yes; we must worship him as God for he is his word.
No one can worship God if he does not worship his word.
We must follow his word,or we dont worship God.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2012,04:51) Hi Ed, what does this verse mean to you? “Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is NO elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)What does it mean for Jehovah to say there are no other elohim, when we know from scripture that there are many?
Please explain.
Mikeb.I noticed that you are still not too sure about Jesus and God.
Am I right?wakeup.
Mike, I have had this conversation in many different threads over the years. The problem is that the word “god” has become genericised.
Just as there are a lot of people that believe kleenex “is” facial tissue, rather than being a very specific brand of facial tissue, so too, because the “god” of the Bible is so popular, and since when using the word “god,” it is something like 99.99% of the time referring to Jehovah, people have come to think that “god” means Jehovah, or that God means “creator” or “father” etc.
This is a great part that adds to the confusion of the trinity belief.
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