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Meerkat
We are mistaken when we think God gave Moses just ten (10) commandments.
Ex. 24:12 “And the LORD said unto Moses, come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.”
v. 18 “And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.”
Ex. 32:15 “And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.”
Ex. 34:28 “And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.'When reading scripture, one should never assume, in this instant however, it should be easy to assume that it would not have taking God forty days and nights, to give Moses just ten commandments, nor would it have taking Moses that long to understand them, and, ten commandments would have easily fit on one tablet.
Read the book of Leviticus, it details all the commandments written on the two tables; this is the last verse of Leviticus.Lev. 27:34 “These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.”
In other words, ten is God's number of completion, or total, meaning all included.
The entire package, which we refer to as “the Law of Moses”, which include the ten commandments we refer to, was God's covenant with Israel. The sabbath in particular was a special sign for his people.Ex.31:13 “Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you.”
The Israelites were commanded to worship God at least once a week. When Jesus died on the cross, he put an end to the old covenant, and established the new in his blood.
Mat. 26:27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, drink ye all of it;
v. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”Jesus gave us the commandment of love.
John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you.”
If we love God, we should not feel we have to do it on a Friday, Saturday, or a Sunday, we should want to love and honor God every day, and meet for fellowship and worship on any given day.
Georg
PS. I realise your thread is on Antichrist, I will post on him later.
To ALL………the Commandments of GOD have and will (NEVER) be done away with. The only thing done away with was the (LAW) (forced compliance) Law (forced compliance is for the sinners and the UNGODLY, it's the only way the Carnal Mind can be controlled, it works through the medium of (FEAR) even if you lite a fire on the Sabbath you were stoned to death, But what does Paul say < "But you brothers have (NOT) come to that Mountain to (FEAR) as they did.
The (ONLY) thing done away with was the (LAW) Part (forced compliance) through FEAR, “no flesh shall be Justified before GOD by (works of law) or by being forced to obey, but the COMMANDMENTS, HAVE NEVER BEEN AWAY WITH AND NEVER WILL, THEY ARE SPIRITUAL> Jesus said to the young ruler Keep the COMMANDMENTS. If we don't keep the Commandments of God we will never be in the kingdom. LOVE FULFILLS (ALL) THE COMMANDMENTS, BECAUSE THEY COME FROM GOD AND GOD (IS) LOVE.
It's not that the COMMANDMENTS have been away with , IT'S THE WAY THERE KEPT HAS. We are caused by the operation of God's Love shed around in our Hearts to walk in His COMMANDMENTS. True Christians should not break God's commandments and won't if there being moved by His love in them.
peace and love to you all…………….gene
GB,
Caused?God does not force anyone to obey the commandments or to be led by the Spirit.
We must work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
Branches unconnected to the vine are cut off.
We must walk while the light is with us.Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 14 2008,01:15) Meerkat We are mistaken when we think God gave Moses just ten (10) commandments.
Ex. 24:12 “And the LORD said unto Moses, come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.”
v. 18 “And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.”
Ex. 32:15 “And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.”
Ex. 34:28 “And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.'When reading scripture, one should never assume, in this instant however, it should be easy to assume that it would not have taking God forty days and nights, to give Moses just ten commandments, nor would it have taking Moses that long to understand them, and, ten commandments would have easily fit on one tablet.
Read the book of Leviticus, it details all the commandments written on the two tables; this is the last verse of Leviticus.Lev. 27:34 “These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.”
In other words, ten is God's number of completion, or total, meaning all included.
The entire package, which we refer to as “the Law of Moses”, which include the ten commandments we refer to, was God's covenant with Israel. The sabbath in particular was a special sign for his people.Ex.31:13 “Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you.”
The Israelites were commanded to worship God at least once a week. When Jesus died on the cross, he put an end to the old covenant, and established the new in his blood.
Mat. 26:27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, drink ye all of it;
v. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”Jesus gave us the commandment of love.
John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you.”
If we love God, we should not feel we have to do it on a Friday, Saturday, or a Sunday, we should want to love and honor God every day, and meet for fellowship and worship on any given day.
Georg
PS. I realise your thread is on Antichrist, I will post on him later.
Georg,In the Deut version of the commandments being given, after the commandments are given it says God gave no other. Later you then have more being added, the scribes saying that Moses said that God said blah… blah …..blah
Quote Deu 5:6 I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee [any] graven image, [or] any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.In the OT were are continually told that Israel and the Jews were apostate from God and were always setting up there own ways and worshiping other Gods, when we are told in Jeremiah
Jer 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
Jer 8:9 The wise [men] are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom [is] in them?
Jer 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, [and] their fields to them that shall inherit [them]: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
Jer 8:11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when [there is] no peace.Jer 8:12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
The 70AD destruction was the fulfillment of this because the whole nation was continually apostate – Jesus said
Quote Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall
be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.Quote Mat 15:7[Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Mat 15:10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Mat 15:11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.The spirit of Gods commandments have been there from the very beginning of creation. When Cain killed Able that was a sin – when Cain lied about it that was a sin, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God it was a sin, it is the spirit of the law that is to be kept and it was always that way. The Israelites and Jews were always trying to do it their own way and not Gods way. Gods covenant is always based on his commandments, the covenant that was given to the Israelites and the new covenant with Jesus as the mediator they are both based on the same commandments of God – the new thing is that they are written on our hearts and Jesus is our mediator with the power of Gods Spirit (the Holy Spirit)!!!!
In Revelation we are told
Quote Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[/b] A lot of christians now are doing exactly the same thing that the Israelites were doing, trying to explain away obedience to Gods commandments with a set of rites and rituals that we are told God gave to Jesus, who gave to Paul, who gave them to us.
Meet on Sunday, be baptised, take communion. ……….
The same words that God wrote on the tables of stone are the laws that are written on our hearts by the Spirit of God.
Hi mk,
Not quite.The words in stone are admonitions.
They tell men what to do and what not to do.
But grace had not yet been supplied as it came in Christ.The Spirit leads in the ways of loving righteousness and grace is provided to follow them. Being joined with Christ through coming to him and being reborn from above is the way.
Hi mk,
The Spirit does not lead those who are not a temple for God, and never will.
All are not in Christ and given the Spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 14 2008,07:48) Hi mk,
Not quite.The words in stone are admonitions.
They tell men what to do and what not to do.
But grace had not yet been supplied as it came in Christ.The Spirit leads in the ways of loving righteousness and grace is provided to follow them. Being joined with Christ through coming to him and being reborn from above is the way.
Abraham had faith and was led by Gods Spirit, which was given by God, Jesus said people had faith before he was crucified and raised.I agree Christ is the only way to the Father, by his resurrection by the Spirit we will all be raised.
What commandments of God do you think revelation is talking about?
Hi mk,
Indeed the men of old are among those alive in the Spirit.Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.Luke 20:37-39
37Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.38For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
39Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said.
The living sons of the resurrection will arise by the Spirit in the first resurrection.
All men will not be raised by the Spirit in the second resurrection.They will be called by the authority of the Son of man.
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.So they are of the woman[Israel]
But they also accept the new testamentRevelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.These are those christians not found among the sons of the resurrection for various reasons[e.g sleepy bridesmaids]enduring the great tribulation. The commands of God are many and include those of Jesus.
Jn5
27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 14 2008,07:54) Hi mk,
The Spirit does not lead those who are not a temple for God, and never will.
All are not in Christ and given the Spirit.
Nick I get the feeling that you are physically reading what I am writing but not understanding what I am saying …….. you appear to be passing everything by your theology, which you believe, and then trying to use scripture/opinion to counter it, for you I believe it is about debating other theology against your theology ……….. for me what I try to do is test what I think/believe and what you think/believe and seeing how it relates to Gods plan revealed in scripture and by the Holy Spirit …….. JMHOThe Holy Spirit will never go against itself and what I see in christianity, there is so many different theologies that they obviously can not all be of the Holy Spirit, and I do not want to pick up a “theology”.
Meerkat
I don't know how to say this, If I didn't see your name up there I would have sworn it was Nick who wrote it.
You did not address a single scripture I quoted. If you don't agree with something, why not point it out.
The last time you accused me of manipulating scripture to prove my view; show me were you disagree with what I said, and how I explained it wrong.Georg
Gene
Show me were the ten commandments were not part of the law-covenant.
You do a lot of explaining, but you show no scriptures to back it up.
Did I say not to keep the commandments?
Show me exactly in my post that you disagree with, and prove it with scripture if I'm wrong.Georg
Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 14 2008,10:36) I don't know how to say this, If I didn't see your name up there I would have sworn it was Nick who wrote it.
Can you hear this, Nick?Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 14 2008,10:36) Meerkat I don't know how to say this, If I didn't see your name up there I would have sworn it was Nick who wrote it.
You did not address a single scripture I quoted. If you don't agree with something, why not point it out.
The last time you accused me of manipulating scripture to prove my view; show me were you disagree with what I said, and how I explained it wrong.Georg
Georg,I apologise for offending you ………. and for not wording my post well.
I am trying to learn, and I guess I get overwhelmed by the contradiction I see in the different christian theologies and even in the bible ……… also I am seeing that depending on what scripture is used and what scripture is not used that any position can be defended with scripture and also the opposing view can also be defended.
You say “We are mistaken when we think God gave Moses just ten (10) commandments.”
But if you look at Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
To me that says God gave the 10 commandments written in stone, added no more and gave them to Moses.
To me it seems that the those 10 commandments were always in operation – Adam was instructed to obey God from the start – the sabbath was a day of rest from the start, murder was a sin from the start, lying was too.
I guess for me I am trying to work out how much of the OT we can trust as the direct word of God and how much has been added/changed – I know that there are physical types and shadows in the Jewish religion with the sacrifices and rituals – but if you look at Jeremiah 8:10 it says of the Israelites that they are all coveteous and the prophets and priests are dealing falsely – do we just ignore that?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 14 2008,10:55) Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 14 2008,10:36) I don't know how to say this, If I didn't see your name up there I would have sworn it was Nick who wrote it.
Can you hear this, Nick?
wassup not3?
You do not sound a happy chappie.Meerkat
You are forgiven, although, I don't offend easily. I do get disappointed at times when I think someone is really interested in learning, and then it seems I was wrong.
I realize that I come on strong with what I say, but it is not that I'm trying to be dogmatic about it, it is because what I say I believe, and have studied long and hard on it.
It is good sometimes to take a second and third look at scriptures; to meditate on them, and wonder, what is it really saying, why is it here.
I do not believe that scripture over the centuries have become so disfigured that we can no longer put our trust in them. God would not allow that, because then we would have an excuse.
Also, the Bible never contradicts itself; if it seems to us that way, it's because we don't understand something.
I also disagree with your thinking that any position can be defended with scripture; only if you totally ignore other scripture, and that is why Paul said, “prove all things, hold fast that which is good.”
Have you ever noticed that the book of Deuteronomy for the most part is a chronicle for the first four books?
You just can not ignore the scriptures in Exodus and Leviticus, and replace them with Deuteronomy.
The Law, including the ten commandments, did not exist until Moses.Rom. 5:12–
Rom. 5:13 “For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.”
Rom. 5:14–I do say trust the word of God, but be careful of what translation you read in; the newer ones have made some adjustments.
What Jeremiah said was directed to the house of Judah; but regrettably applies to our generation as well, and no, we don't ignore that, we should become very selective who we listen to.
Nice talking with you Meerkat.Georg
Hi brother Georg,
Those are words from experience. I do feel Ten commandments are part of Mosaic Law. Though Sabbath and Circumcision were before Moses, they were made as commandments only in Mosaic law. If Paul says we are not under the law, where is the question of keeping a portion of law as if it is binding on us ? We are not justified by keeping of the whole law or a portion of law. Then we can not some how bring the obligation of keeping few commandments from the law to say we have to observe them. Please see the verses in Gal 3:1 O stupid Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 I want to learn only this from you: did you receive the Spirit from works of the law, or from faith in what you heard?
3 Are you so stupid? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh?
4 Did you experience so many things in vain?–if indeed it was in vain.
5 Does, then, the one who supplies the Spirit to you and works mighty deeds among you do so from works of the law or from faith in what you heard?
6 Thus Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
7 Realize then that it is those who have faith who are children of Abraham.
8 Scripture, which saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, “Through you shall all the nations be blessed.”
9 Consequently, those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham who had faith.
10 For all who depend on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law.”
11 And that no one is justified before God by the law is clear, for “the one who is righteous by faith will live.”
12 But the law does not depend on faith; rather, “the one who does these things will live by them.”
13 Christ ransomed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who hangs on a tree,”
14 that the blessing of Abraham might be extended to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.God's blessings (the blessings of Abraham) extended to us Gentile believers not by keeping the Law but by faith in believing God as Abraham believed God. Though Circumcision was commanded to him at a later stage, it was not counted for his righteousness not even keeping Sabbath which was not ordered at his time to be observed.
Therefore I question Sis Meerkat and others why alone you want to bring Sabbath as part of commandments binding on Gentile believers instead of the whole law ? As I have already quoted earlier from Col 2:14-16 that Sabbath is part of symbolic day observation for a Jew not for the Gentile believers. If you fully understand the detailed methodology of keeping Sabbath I don't think you will be able to observe it properly in the present context. As you have rightly told in your post for a christian keeping any day for worshipping God is OK whether Saturday, Sunday or Friday as the Apostles and early church used to gather daily for prayer and bread beaking. Now I feel this verse is more appropriate in our contexet than Sabbath.
Heb 10:
25 We should not stay away from our assembly, as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day(no particular day) drawing near.Thanks and peace to you
Adam
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