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Hi Nick,
I agree, but isn't there something inside you that makes you want to teach in a way others can understand?
Don't you ever have the urge to explain how a certain interpretation doesn't align with the rest of Scripture?
You, it seems, are happy with saying, “The Lord is the Spirit, read 1 Cor.”
I, on the other hand, want to lead them to the exact Scripture and use logic that says, for instance, the trinity doctrine basically implies that Jesus WAS God, then WASN'T, now IS God again, and later WON'T be again.
IMO, saying, “The Lord is the Spirit” doesn't bring anybody to any realization at all. Especially someone who has believed falsely for so long they think it is the only truth.
Anyway, to each his own I guess.
peace and love,
mikeHi MB,
Teaching the unteachable is futility and offering morsels to mockers worse..
Teaching is the work of the Spirit from the Word.
We just shareQuote (karmarie @ April 29 2010,11:01) Quote (Lightenup @ April 29 2010,07:14) I am just asking you to have some integrity when you quote someone. I realize that quoting a part of someone's post can be reasonable and without misrepresentation and with integrity to respect that person's freedom of speech. When you change people's exact quotes by eliminating parts of the complete thought, or structure, that can be misleading…… …So, Ed J, I think that I would have been somewhat impressed if you had just admitted to hacking up my list and apologizing rather than the self-righteous approach that you took while slinging derogatory names at me. Humility is always a better way when you can clearly see that someone is ticked off at you for doing something like misrepresenting their quotes when it is easy to prove that you actually did do that.
Ed I would have to agree with Lu here, (and see how I quoted only part of the post but kept it to the full sentance of what Lu was saying? (And without overquoting)
Calm down Ed, apologise and learn not to do it again.ok?
Sorry to interupt,Lu, though i agreed here, I didnt know you were going to report Ed? That I dont agree with. Have you seen how much abuse Ed has put up with on this forum himself?
I personally couldnt care less what he does with my posts when quoting me because im here to ask….learn….or make a statement, and I wait for a reply and its the reply which I pay attention to… a conversation is between me and the person so as long as I know what theyre replying to myself thats all I care about…
Please apologise to him because he was a valuable person. He just wants to be able to do what he wants to do and I think he should have that right (otherwise he doesnt want to come back)..Thats all iv got to say, Eds helped me alot so I owe it to him, and hes quite upset…
(Carry on).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2010,16:17) I, on the other hand, want to lead them to the exact Scripture and use logic that says, for instance, the trinity doctrine basically implies that Jesus WAS God, then WASN'T, now IS God again, and later WON'T be again.
I don't think anyone here (besides you) believes that. Nor does scripture affirm it. I think you're on your own…..Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 06 2010,17:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2010,16:17) I, on the other hand, want to lead them to the exact Scripture and use logic that says, for instance, the trinity doctrine basically implies that Jesus WAS God, then WASN'T, now IS God again, and later WON'T be again.
I don't think anyone here (besides you) believes that. Nor does scripture affirm it. I think you're on your own…..
Hi Paul,Then please enlighten me.
1. Was Jesus God Almighty before he came to earth? When, as thinker says, he was a messenger of his God.
2. Was Jesus God Almighty while he was on earth?
3. Was Jesus God Almighty when he was dead?
4. Is Jesus God Almighty now that he sits at the right hand of his God?
5. Will Jesus be God Almighty when he subjects himself to his God?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2010,16:33) Hi MB,
Teaching the unteachable is futility and offering morsels to mockers worse..
Teaching is the work of the Spirit from the Word.
We just share
Hi Nick,Some of us just share more openly and to the point than others. I try not to judge, but I am only an imperfect human.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2010,14:03) Then please enlighten me. 1. Was Jesus God Almighty before he came to earth? When, as thinker says, he was a messenger of his God.
2. Was Jesus God Almighty while he was on earth?
3. Was Jesus God Almighty when he was dead?
4. Is Jesus God Almighty now that he sits at the right hand of his God?
5. Will Jesus be God Almighty when he subjects himself to his God?
Yes to all of the above.Quote (karmarie @ May 06 2010,00:45) Quote (karmarie @ April 29 2010,11:01) Quote (Lightenup @ April 29 2010,07:14) I am just asking you to have some integrity when you quote someone. I realize that quoting a part of someone's post can be reasonable and without misrepresentation and with integrity to respect that person's freedom of speech. When you change people's exact quotes by eliminating parts of the complete thought, or structure, that can be misleading…… …So, Ed J, I think that I would have been somewhat impressed if you had just admitted to hacking up my list and apologizing rather than the self-righteous approach that you took while slinging derogatory names at me. Humility is always a better way when you can clearly see that someone is ticked off at you for doing something like misrepresenting their quotes when it is easy to prove that you actually did do that.
Ed I would have to agree with Lu here, (and see how I quoted only part of the post but kept it to the full sentance of what Lu was saying? (And without overquoting)
Calm down Ed, apologise and learn not to do it again.ok?
Sorry to interupt,Lu, though i agreed here, I didnt know you were going to report Ed? That I dont agree with. Have you seen how much abuse Ed has put up with on this forum himself?
I personally couldnt care less what he does with my posts when quoting me because im here to ask….learn….or make a statement, and I wait for a reply and its the reply which I pay attention to… a conversation is between me and the person so as long as I know what theyre replying to myself thats all I care about…
Please apologise to him because he was a valuable person. He just wants to be able to do what he wants to do and I think he should have that right (otherwise he doesnt want to come back)..Thats all iv got to say, Eds helped me alot so I owe it to him, and hes quite upset…
(Carry on).
karmarie,
If Ed wants to play editor of my posts quoted within other people's posts then that is a problem and when he wants to edit my posts and leave out the complete thought and then respond to his misrepresented edition of what I said, that is a problem also. Keith and JustAskin seem to have a problem with that too. T8 gave him a warning and for good reason. He was asked to stop this behavior by me, Keith, JustAskin, and yourself but instead complained that he should have the right to manipulate others words and then continued to do it again. No, I do not think an apology from me is necessary to help him. If he wants to feel better, then he should leave people's thoughts intact and heed the warning that he has been given. If he refuses then he will continue to be reported, if he respects the warning and changes his manipulative ways then he has no need to worry.Trust in the Lord about this Karmarie. Ed is a big boy. Encourage him to heed the warning and that will help him in the future. Maybe he will not have as many problems if he is more respectful of other's words.
Think about it Karmarie, if a person wrote an article and quoted someone else for a whole paragraph then the next person copied the article but whited out 2/3 of the inner quote, wouldn't that be unnecessary to say the least also misrepresenting. I told him that if he thought that it was ok to continue misrepresenting the thoughts of others then I would ask t8 to help him understand. That's all. No one has told him to leave. If he is still confused, perhaps he should ask t8 for some clarification.
I want to reiterate that I am not opposed to quoting a portion of someone's post when done with integrity and respecting the person's thoughts and structure. I just have a problem when they delete parts within the thought and also go into the post that someone quoted and commented on already and then change that inner post. It was my inner post that he changed. That is confusing for someone just coming in the thread and is disrespectful to the person who wrote the words in the first place. If you don't mind your words and thoughts to be tampered with then that is up to you. I do mind and I have a right to expect my words and thoughts to NOT be tampered with. Obviously I am not alone on this. I am not in favor of enabling poor behavior.
you said:
Quote He just wants to be able to do what he wants to do and I think he should have that right (otherwise he doesnt want to come back) That sounds so much like a person driven by their flesh and mad if someone doesn't let them get away with it. I have raised five two year olds that went through that same phase. You enable this and I won't. I don't think that is in his best interest (to enable his disrespectful behavior). Let iron sharpen iron. He will come around to respecting the words of others, hopefully. I take no pleasure in reporting other's bad behavior and have only done it 2-3 times on here in over two years. I do not take it lightly.
Blessings,
KathiQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2010,21:13) Quote (Lightenup @ May 05 2010,16:50) Mike, you have researched the Outstretched Arm and have come up with no evidence that the outstretched arm applied to anyone other than the Son of God. The only passage you mentioned was equating a man as a tool, not as an outstretched arm.
Hi Kathi,YET. I said I hadn't come up with anything “yet”. But I might have something here. Starting with Isaiah 44:28, Jehovah starts talking about Cyrus.
28 the One saying of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and all that I delight in he will completely carry out’; even in [my] saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be rebuilt,’ and of the temple, ‘You will have your foundation laid.’”
45 This is what Jehovah has said to his anointed one, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have taken hold of, to subdue before him nations,
Then Isaiah 52 talks about the Israelites being repurchased out of Babylon and coming home to Jerusalem,
9 Become cheerful, cry out joyfully in unison, YOU devastated places of Jerusalem, for Jehovah has comforted his people; he has repurchased Jerusalem. 10 Jehovah has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth must see the salvation of our God. 11 Turn away, turn away, get out of there, touch nothing unclean; get out from the midst of her, keep yourselves clean, YOU who are carrying the utensils of Jehovah.
In this instance, it is clear that Cyrus is “the holy arm” of Jehovah, not Jesus, for Ezra 1:2 says,
2 “This is what Cyrus the king of Persia has said, ‘All the kingdoms of the earth Jehovah the God of the heavens has given me, and he himself has commissioned me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
And Ezra 1:7-8 says,
7 Also, King Cyrus himself brought forth the utensils of the house of Jehovah, which Neb‧u‧chad‧nez′zar had brought out from Jerusalem and then put in the house of his god. 8 And Cyrus the king of Persia proceeded to bring them forth under the control of Mith′re‧dath the treasurer and to number them out to Shesh‧baz′zar the chieftain of Judah.
I think I might have found a “mighty arm” of Jehovah who is clearly Cyrus.
True, the rest of Isaiah 55 foretells about Jesus' role as Jehovah's mighty arm in the future. But Jesus the man as we know him wasn't a factor in bringing the exiles back from Babylon, that was Cyrus, another of Jehovah's anointed ones.
On another note, 1 John 4:9 says,
9 By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.
When God sent forth his Son into the world as a sacrifice, it was the first time mentioned that Jesus was “in the world”. Paul says that when God again brings His firstborn into the world, the angels will do obeisance to him. IMO, this is when the things in Rev occur – after he is found worthy to open the scroll and comes on the clouds with power. Other than these two times, I have never read anything in the Bible that implies Jesus was “in the world”.
peace and love,
mike
Mike,
God is holding Cyrus' hand. Cyrus is not the arm but the object that God is holding.Isaiah 52 leads into Isaiah 53. Just a few verses after the mention of the Lord baring His arm in 52 we read about who the revealed arm is…the Son of God.
Nice try though.
Hi LU,
You have a few manuscripts and no supporting verses.
Seems a weak foundation for polytheism.
God is one is what Jesus said.Quote (Lightenup @ May 07 2010,17:12) karmarie,
If Ed wants to play editor of my posts quoted within other people's posts then that is a problem and when he wants to edit my posts and leave out the complete thought and then respond to his misrepresented edition of what I said, that is a problem also. Keith and JustAskin seem to have a problem with that too. T8 gave him a warning and for good reason. He was asked to stop this behavior by me, Keith, JustAskin, and yourself but instead complained that he should have the right to manipulate others words and then continued to do it again. No, I do not think an apology from me is necessary to help him. If he wants to feel better, then he should leave people's thoughts intact and heed the warning that he has been given. If he refuses then he will continue to be reported, if he respects the warning and changes his manipulative ways then he has no need to worry.Trust in the Lord about this Karmarie. Ed is a big boy. Encourage him to heed the warning and that will help him in the future. Maybe he will not have as many problems if he is more respectful of other's words.
Think about it Karmarie, if a person wrote an article and quoted someone else for a whole paragraph then the next person copied the article but whited out 2/3 of the inner quote, wouldn't that be unnecessary to say the least also misrepresenting. I told him that if he thought that it was ok to continue misrepresenting the thoughts of others then I would ask t8 to help him understand. That's all. No one has told him to leave. If he is still confused, perhaps he should ask t8 for some clarification.
I want to reiterate that I am not opposed to quoting a portion of someone's post when done with integrity and respecting the person's thoughts and structure. I just have a problem when they delete parts within the thought and also go into the post that someone quoted and commented on already and then change that inner post. It was my inner post that he changed. That is confusing for someone just coming in the thread and is disrespectful to the person who wrote the words in the first place. If you don't mind your words and thoughts to be tampered with then that is up to you. I do mind and I have a right to expect my words and thoughts to NOT be tampered with. Obviously I am not alone on this. I am not in favor of enabling poor behavior.
you said:
Quote He just wants to be able to do what he wants to do and I think he should have that right (otherwise he doesnt want to come back) That sounds so much like a person driven by their flesh and mad if someone doesn't let them get away with it. I have raised five two year olds that went through that same phase. You enable this and I won't. I don't think that is in his best interest (to enable his disrespectful behavior). Let iron sharpen iron. He will come around to respecting the words of others, hopefully. I take no pleasure in reporting other's bad behavior and have only done it 2-3 times on here in over two years. I do not take it lightly.
Blessings,
Kathi
Hi LuI actually agree on Ed with this one when I see it through non- wordly eyes
he is “answerable only to YHVH” I cant find fault in that statement!I live the same sort of… wherever God will take me I will go – (even if I or no one else understand it…for example I was shown Islam years ago then taken away from it back to Jesus then made to stand with Bodhitharta only to show me who really needs the help in the world today) – most in believers place have the Father and the Son (He who has the Father has the Son)…which is why I dont say much in Believers place!
Never mind.
Please carry on:) you seem to have a peacefull conversation going on.Hi Kathi,
Read it again. The things foretold that would happen by God bareing His holy arm are the exact things that Cyrus fulfilled for Him. That's why I put the Ezra quotes in the post. (The holy instruments of the temple being returned and such.)
I'm convinced I will find more as I continue reading through the prophets.
peace and love,
mike
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