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Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,07:46) Mike B. All what you have posted on HN; can anyone seperate that from you? As if it is not you; your self? But some other?
wakeup.
WANYTHING THAT ANYONE SAY CAN BE TAKEN AWAY AND BE USED AS HIS ,WHEN IT IS SPOKEN IT IS GONE FROM YOU ,IT IS EITHER HEARD ,REJECTED, OR ACCEPTED ,NO STRINGS ATTACHED
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,12:46) Mike B. All what you have posted on HN; can anyone seperate that from you? As if it is not you; your self? But some other?
wakeup.
Mike b.May be this will do the job.
A car consist of a body and an engine.
An engine is not a car.
A car body is not a car
The engine is an engine.
The body is the bodyA car consist of body structure and engine.
Yet the engine alone is not a car.
The engine makes the car move.
Makes it do its purpose.wakeup.
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 29 2014,06:39) Hi Mike Thanks for answering, but there's too many questions for me to answer right now in a jiffy. I will get back to you as soon as I can here and there, as I have a few busy days ahead of me with family.
Oh and I look very forward to comparing the NWT, can't wait actually
I'm actually hoping you DON'T address all of those points at once, journey!That post isn't going anywhere, so you can pick them out, point at a time, so we can discuss each one individually.
As for the NWT, I too am very anxious for you to start.
I tried again last night to find that “Blatant Errors in the NWT” thread, but I must be remembering the name of the thread wrong. Ed J might know where we can find it, since he was one of the first ones to be corrected on that thread.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 28 2014,19:46) Mike B. All what you have posted on HN; can anyone seperate that from you? As if it is not you; your self? But some other?
wakeup.
My spoken words are not “ME”, Wakeup.Now please answer the question I DID ask:
Who is the “HIS”? And who is the “HE”? Are they the same being/person?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2014,09:34) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 28 2014,19:46) Mike B. All what you have posted on HN; can anyone seperate that from you? As if it is not you; your self? But some other?
wakeup.
My spoken words are not “ME”, Wakeup.Now please answer the question I DID ask:
Who is the “HIS”? And who is the “HE”? Are they the same being/person?
Mikeb.Yes; your spoken word belongs to you alone.
But is not you as a person,because you can not
bring forth your word as an image of you.
But God can; and he did.
That image is the Word of God,alive and breathing as it were.He and God is one Being.
Consisting of God and His speach.(living speach).wakeup.
Hi Mike
Ok, lets start of here. We are comparing the NWT, to the King James. What better place to start than in Genesis.
KJV Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
NWT Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters.
Why isn't this interpreted as “The Spirit of God”?
but instead interpret as “God's Active Force”, like something out of star wars?
The word “Force” is used by God in this example;Daniel 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Are you aware what this verse is speaking about Mike?
…and we have only just started, second verse in Genesis.I personally believe the JWs are right in saying the Holy Spirit of God is “God's active force”.
It is, after all, the means by which God does many things.
But I agree that the Hebrew word is “ruwach”, which NEVER literally means “God's active force”.
The JW's have forced their own DOCTRINE into that scripture, which is wrong of them. When the recently released modern English NWT came out, the first scripture I went to was that one, to see if they had corrected that biased translation. Alas, they have not. The new one also has “God's active force”.
Here are the basic definitions of the Hebrew word “ruwach”:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
And here are the NETNotes on Genesis 1:2…….
The traditional rendering “Spirit of God” is preserved here, as opposed to a translation like “wind from/breath of God” (cf. NRSV) or “mighty wind” (cf. NEB)……..
Elsewhere in the OT the phrase refers consistently to the divine spirit that empowers and energizes individuals (see Gen 41:38; Exod 31:3; 35:31; Num 24:2; 1 Sam 10:10; 11:6; 19:20, 23; Ezek 11:24; 2 Chr 15:1; 24:20).
You can see that some translators understand that word to be referring to a powerful wind that was constantly sweeping across the water of the earth. Not all understand it as the Holy Spirit of God.
The JWs DO understand it as the Holy Spirit of God – they just mess it up by adding their own bias into the Hebrew words.
To be fair, you can see that the NETNotes people also believe God's Spirit to be the means by which He “empowers and energizes”………… ie: “active force”.
So while I agree with the JWs that God's Holy Spirit is indeed His “active force”, I STRONGLY disagree with the fact that they slammed their own personal BIAS down our throats with that translation.
I agree with you that the NWT version of Gen 1:2 is flawed, and I would never quote that version of 1:2 to anyone.
What's next?
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,19:05) He and God is one Being.
Consisting of God and His speach.(living speach).
So then EVERY word that comes out of God's mouth is also God Himself, right? How many Alpha and Omegas does that make, Wakeup?You are confused on this issue, my friend. And no offense, but I'm tired of spinning my wheels with you on this one.
MikeB.
Quote So then EVERY word that comes **out of God's mouth** is **also God Himself**, right? How many Alpha and Omegas does that make, Wakeup? You are making a small twist here;
fore that is not what I have said.
Every Word that comes out of Gods mouth is not God.
But it is His Word;His speach;the expression of His mind into words, spoken through his image Being.The word of God was transformed INTO A BEING. The image of Himself.
One of these days It will click.
wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 30 2014,02:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,07:46) Mike B. All what you have posted on HN; can anyone seperate that from you? As if it is not you; your self? But some other?
wakeup.
WANYTHING THAT ANYONE SAY CAN BE TAKEN AWAY AND BE USED AS HIS ,WHEN IT IS SPOKEN IT IS GONE FROM YOU ,IT IS EITHER HEARD ,REJECTED, OR ACCEPTED ,NO STRINGS ATTACHED
T.The Word spoken by God,
is preached in all the earth.
It is gone out from God, but stays on the earth,
untill its accomplished.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2014,11:53) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 30 2014,02:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,07:46) Mike B. All what you have posted on HN; can anyone seperate that from you? As if it is not you; your self? But some other?
wakeup.
WANYTHING THAT ANYONE SAY CAN BE TAKEN AWAY AND BE USED AS HIS ,WHEN IT IS SPOKEN IT IS GONE FROM YOU ,IT IS EITHER HEARD ,REJECTED, OR ACCEPTED ,NO STRINGS ATTACHED
T.The Word spoken by God,
is preached in all the earth.
It is gone out from God, but stays on the earth,
untill its accomplished.wakeup.
WGod,s word was given to the prophets and they have written it down starting with Moses it was on earth all that time
Christ came and made the good news of the kingdom known to all Israel .and then his disciple made it known through out the known world of there time, amen
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2014,14:36) T. Of their time only?
You have not their word?wakeup.
from then on the powers of God would take it until the end of times (ages)Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 30 2014,23:48) One of these days It will click.
It is a bizarre, nonsensical, and unscriptural doctrine, based SOLELY on your insistence upon a FLAWED translation of John 1:1. So “NO”, I highly doubt that it will ever “click” for me.The phrase “Word of God” in John 1:1, 1:14, and Revelation 19:13 does NOT refer to any literal spoken words, nor even to just one literal word.
Instead, it is a TITLE for God's main spokesperson. This spokesperson is Jesus Christ today (Rev 19:13), and he was Jesus Christ before God ever made him in the likeness of a human being.
“The Word of God” was a living PERSON – NOT God Almighty Himself – both in the beginning, on earth, and still to this day.
This PERSON did not “used to be” God Himself. He has always been a living being OTHER THAN God – since the very moment God CREATED him as the first of His works.
God then created all other things THROUGH him – a scriptural statement that is not only said about “the Word”, but also about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Now in YOUR understanding, this Word became “Jesus Christ, the Son of God” when he was made flesh. But that simply can't be, because MANY different scriptures prohibit such a thing.
In John 6, it was Jesus Christ, the Son of God who said he came down from heaven. In order for that statement to be true, then Jesus Christ, the Son of God must have first existed IN heaven in order for him to have come FROM there.
And the SCRIPTURAL teaching is the God sent His only begotten Son into the world. That couldn't have happened UNLESS Jesus was already God's only begotten Son BEFORE God sent him into the world.
Also, Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2 all tell us that God created all things through “Jesus Christ, the Son of God”. And that aligns perfectly with what is said about “the Word” in John 1:3, right? So in order for all things to have been created through “the Word” AND through “Jesus Christ”, the Word had to have been Jesus Christ before all things were created through him.
Also, your understanding calls for something that used to actually BE God Almighty, becoming someone OTHER THAN God Almighty, and then taking on flesh, and then DYING.
But we know that God Almighty never changes, right? So one scripture shoots down that entire theory.
There are MANY other scriptures that prohibit your understanding, Wakeup………. in fact, too many to mention.
I mean, look at your end game. You don't even know if this Word/Jesus entity IS God Almighty Himself, or an individual entity that sits at the right hand of God Almighty Himself.
You say both are the Alpha and Omega, and therefore both are God Himself. But even after he was exalted by his God to the highest place, Jesus is STILL the servant OF God who sits at the right hand OF his God, Jehovah. He is not actually Jehovah, but Jehovah's SERVANT, Wakeup.
You say that because this Word/Jesus entity is God, he also deserves our worship. But all throughout scripture, we are only told to worship ONE entity. We are never told to worship the things OF God, right? And we are certainly never told to worship the SERVANTS of God, right?
One of these days, I'm going to make a private thread, for just you and I and journey. And we're going to go through these things in very slow motion, making sure we all understand everything each step of the way.
And we're going to answer questions with DIRECT and HONEST answers, instead of blowing the entire point off to post essays about our belief.
Would you be interested in something like that?
MikeB.
This is what you believe Mike:
1.God's word are just words.
2.God created a creature to be His personal spokesman
before the world was.(all created are creatures).
3.Everything was created by this spokesman on God's
behalf.
4.God send him down to earth to become flesh.
5.He became the saviour of the world.
6.All knees shall bow down before Him,to honour Him.
7.No one can come to God but through Him.
8.We only worship God but not Him;we just honour Him.
9.His claim in revelation: I am Alpha and Omega;the first
and the last; he who lives and was dead. Does not belong
in the book of revelation; it was added on by trinies.
10.He is not the everlasting father nor the mighty God as
per isaiah 9.
11.He is now next to His Father.
12.He will come again with his new name: The Word of God.
13.He will reign in His own kingdom on earth.Is that correct Mike?
wakeup.
Wakeup,
That list is a brilliant place to begin our private discussion. I will start the thread tomorrow, and begin with #1 on your list.
Hi Mike
Can you see the contradiction in the NWT?
KJV Genesis 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land wheron thou liests, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
KJV Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God almighty; but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
NWT Gen 28:13 And look! there was Jehovah stationed above it, and he said:
“I am Jehovah the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac. The land on which you are lying, to you I am going to give it and to your offspring.NWT Exodus 6:3 Jehovah said to Moses, “I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.”
Do you think it is possible that the name “Jehovah was incorrectly inserted in Genesis 28:13? Because it contradicts Exodus 6:3 where God said his name Jehovah was not made known to Abraham and Isaac.
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