- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,23:51) God gave me the KJV, and I stick to it.
In the KJV I have found all the answers.
Your “answers” have more twists and turns than an Agatha Christie novel.
I wonder what it is about that work of HUMAN BEINGS that causes people to say, “Right or wrong, I'm sticking with it”.
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,09:20) Hi Mike Sorry it took so long to answer, but it took me a few days to read! Is this pay back time?
And I only addressed ONE PART of the many things I want to address! Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,09:20) Bow doesn't sound right.
1. Why doesn't it “sound right”? Doesn't your KJV translate it as “bowed” in certain scriptures?2. Why is “It doesn't sound right to me” even a consideration?
Do you only believe the things in scripture that “sound right” to you?Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,09:20) Obeisance would have to be the worst , as it is not an everyday common english word, and I had to look it up,…so the worst one by far,
Gen 37:7
…..your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.Gen 37:9
Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.Gen 43:28
And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.Exd 18:7
And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance, and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare; and they came into the tent.2Sa 1:2
…..when he came to David, that he fell to the earth, and did obeisance.2Sa 14:4
And when the woman of Tekoah spake to the king, she fell on her face to the ground, and did obeisance, and said, Help, O king.2Sa 15:5
And it was so, that when any man came nigh to him to do him obeisance, he put forth his hand, and took him, and kissed him.1Ki 1:16
And Bathsheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king.2 Ch 24:17
Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah, and made obeisance to the king.I wonder why the KJV used that terrible word so many times.
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,09:20) My answer is the KJV. WORSHIP. This is specific, straight forward, and lets us know that God has given Christ charge over all things, even the angels. After all he is crowned King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That's the highest title.
But as you've just seen, your KJV doesn't ALWAYS use “worship”, does it?So it all boils down to one thing: Either you believe we should worship someone OTHER THAN Jehovah God Almighty – or you don't. All the rest is just fluff and rationalization. The bottom line is that you believe Jesus was in fact a CREATION, and you think it's okay to worship the CREATION along with the CREATOR.
And what's worse, by accepting the KJV's translation of “worship”, you don't only commit this blasphemous act yourself, but also attribute that act to the apostles and disciples of Christ – who KNEW Jesus was NOT the one and only God they were to worship.
Are you okay with that?
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,09:43) Jesus Christ was not God Almighty himself. They knew he was the Son of God.
And yet they worshiped him anyway – knowing that their God Jehovah is a jealous God?Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,10:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2014,09:39) Exodus 20
3 “You shall have no other gods before me.5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God………”
Yes, this is the command. Tell me Mike, was the Son sent then?
So your understanding is that even though the Word actually WAS God Almighty back then, he couldn't be worshiped. But once God transformed this Word into a CREATION, and sent him into the world, it was then okay to worship him?Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,10:02) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Isaiah 48:11
……. I will not give my glory unto another.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
This is the Word speaking Mike.
He already had that glory with the Father……..
Agreed. Jesus had much glory with the Father before the world began. But he didn't have THE FATHER'S glory, journey. They did not have the SAME glory.Unless perhaps Jehovah was LYING to us in Isaiah 48:11.
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,10:02) ……..and when Christ was crucified and risen,
God told the angels to worship him…….
Well, that's what we're trying to figure out. We don't “KNOW” that God told the angels to worship Jesus, right? That is just ONE of the ways it could be translated, right?When John tried to worship the angel in Revelation, what did the angel tell him BOTH TIMES? He told John to “Worship God“, right? He DIDN'T tell John to worship God AND His Word/Servant/Lamb/Messiah/Son/Prophet/Priest Jesus Christ, did he?
So even though Jesus himself told us to worship and serve only ONE – you still think it makes sense that God's angels are ALSO going to worship God's SERVANT along with the Master? And that we should therefore do the same?
Hmmm………..
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,10:02) It was revealed Jesus is the Word of God.
How much closer can you get to the Father than that?
Agreed. There is no one closer to the Father than Jesus. But are we to worship the Father AND those who are close to Him? Or just Him? Which one did God and Jesus tell us to do?Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2014,15:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2014,09:39) Hebrew 1:6 Douay-Rheims Bible
And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him.Young's Literal Translation
and when again He may bring in the first-born to the world, He saith, 'And let them bow before him — all messengers of God.'
Those new translations are subtly introducing new words to put the seekers astray. Here a word, and there a word.
Wakeup,The Douay-Rheims Bible is more than 30 years OLDER than your KJV. That version of Hebrews 1:6 was translated in 1582.
Young's Literal Translation was produced in 1898.
Perhaps you'd be better off considering the actual FACTS I'm laying out here – instead of just slamming any translation that is different than the KJV by saying it is nothing but the biased new words of a new translation.
Food for thought.
journey42,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Obeisance would have to be the worst , as it is not an everyday common english word, and I had to look it up,…so the worst one by far, mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:Quote Gen 37:7
…..your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.Gen 37:9
Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.Gen 43:28
And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.Exd 18:7
And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance, and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare; and they came into the tent.2Sa 1:2
…..when he came to David, that he fell to the earth, and did obeisance.2Sa 14:4
And when the woman of Tekoah spake to the king, she fell on her face to the ground, and did obeisance, and said, Help, O king.2Sa 15:5
And it was so, that when any man came nigh to him to do him obeisance, he put forth his hand, and took him, and kissed him.1Ki 1:16
And Bathsheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king.2 Ch 24:17
Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah, and made obeisance to the king.I wonder why the KJV used that terrible word so many times.
Yes true, but also notice that not one of those verses refers to worshipping God?mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote So it all boils down to one thing: Either you believe we should worship someone OTHER THAN Jehovah God Almighty – or you don't. All the rest is just fluff and rationalization. The bottom line is that you believe Jesus was in fact a CREATION, and you think it's okay to worship the CREATION along with the CREATOR.
Mike, I would hardly call it fluff.
That someone else happens to be “The Word of God” and was the creator, not a creature. How can we worship a creature?
That someone else WAS GOD'S WORD in the beginning, then was made into flesh (turned into a creature,… man)
That someone else when turned into man, conquered death, and is NO LONGER FLESH (MAN) but returned to spirit form and is again WITH the Father in spirit form,
and sits on the right hand of the FATHER,
until God says it time to rule on your own, with your own kingdom on earth, governing with my ways,
which is the kingdom of God anyway, that he is a part of, and always had been.God is the one with all the wisdom and power, and does everything through his Word, which is now Jesus Christ as we know him. God commands, Jesus reveals.
They go hand in hand together.
You cannot have one without the other.
God provides the electricity, for Jesus (the Word) to shine the light. (give us truth)
Without the electricity, there is no light, and we would be in darkness.Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote And what's worse, by accepting the KJV's translation of “worship”, you don't only commit this blasphemous act yourself, but also attribute that act to the apostles and disciples of Christ – who KNEW Jesus was NOT the one and only God they were to worship. Are you okay with that?
If you want to call me blasphemous, that's ok, they said the same thing to Jesus.
Praise the Lord for he said this would happen.The spirit of Antichrist is here, and it is only going to get worse.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2014,12:10) [/quote] Quote journey42,Jan. wrote:Jesus Christ was not God Almighty himself. They knew he was the Son of God.
And yet they worshiped him anyway – knowing that their God Jehovah is a jealous God?Why would God be jealous of his own Word?
Mikeb.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.
Which one of them do you Honour?
And which one do you worship?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 16 2014,16:14) Mikeb. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.
Which one of them do you Honour?
And which one do you worship?wakeup.
Wakeup,
They took that verse out of the new bibles. No wonder they are completely baffled with everything we are talking about. It's like a foreign language being spoken to them.New World Translation.
For there are three witness bearers: the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.New International Version
For there are three that testify:New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses–English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —NET Bible
For there are three that testify,Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony– the Spirit, the water, and the blood;World English Bible
For there are three who testify:Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,20:26) Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,09:20) Obeisance would have to be the worst , as it is not an everyday common english word, and I had to look it up,…so the worst one by far, Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2014,12:07) Gen 37:7
…..your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.Gen 37:9
Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.Gen 43:28
And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.Exd 18:7
And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance, and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare; and they came into the tent.2Sa 1:2
…..when he came to David, that he fell to the earth, and did obeisance.2Sa 14:4
And when the woman of Tekoah spake to the king, she fell on her face to the ground, and did obeisance, and said, Help, O king.2Sa 15:5
And it was so, that when any man came nigh to him to do him obeisance, he put forth his hand, and took him, and kissed him.1Ki 1:16
And Bathsheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king.2 Ch 24:17
Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah, and made obeisance to the king.I wonder why the KJV used that terrible word so many times.
Yes true, but also notice that not one of those verses refers to worshipping God?
And neither does Hebrews 1:6, journey! That is EXACTLY my point!When the KJV knows the obeisance is being done to, say, King David, they translate as “obeisance” because they don't want any of us to think King David is God Almighty.
But when the obeisance is being paid to Jesus, they translate as “worship” – because they DO want their readers to think Jesus is God Almighty.
So they translate as “worship” in the case of Jesus, even though “not one of those verses refers to worshipping God”.
Can't you see the clear BIAS in that practice?
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 15 2014,21:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2014,12:07) So it all boils down to one thing: Either you believe we should worship someone OTHER THAN Jehovah God Almighty – or you don't. All the rest is just fluff and rationalization. The bottom line is that you believe Jesus was in fact a CREATION, and you think it's okay to worship the CREATION along with the CREATOR.
That someone else happens to be “The Word of God” and was the creator, not a creature. How can we worship a creature?
You said that Jesus WAS a creation while he was on earth, right? And you said, “How can we worship a creature”, right?Why then do you think the disciples worshiped the creature Jesus Christ when he was on earth?
Why would you attribute such a blasphemous act to those faithful servants of God and His Messiah?
Hopefully, you'll stay with this discussion long enough for us to discuss the many unscriptural claims you made in that post. I don't want to tackle them all right now, because I want to stay focused on one point at a time.
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 17 2014,02:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 16 2014,16:14) Mikeb. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.
Which one of them do you Honour?
And which one do you worship?wakeup.
Wakeup,
They took that verse out of the new bibles. No wonder they are completely baffled with everything we are talking about. It's like a foreign language being spoken to them.New World Translation.
For there are three witness bearers: the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.New International Version
For there are three that testify:New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses–English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —NET Bible
For there are three that testify,Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony– the Spirit, the water, and the blood;World English Bible
For there are three who testify:
J42.The God of this world has been very busy watering down
the scriptures. And the world love to have it that way.Therefore led astray,taken through another way,
The broad way.Those various translations you have posted is despicable to me, and all the God fearing.
After all that blasphemy;the world still love to depend on their works,and still have trust in them.
Once a liar always a liar as far as I'm concerned.
Their works are not to be trusted,they are thieves and liars,
and blasphemers.Their tables are full of vomit.Led by the unholy dark spirit.All that are with them will come to the same place.
Where the carcase is, there the eagles will be gathered.
We can see the difference,but they can not,for we have seen the truth,and they have not.
This again came into my remembrance;
AND THE LAND IS DESOLATE,BECAUSE OF THE OPPRESSORS.THEY HAVE LAID THE BURDENS ON THE SHOULDERS.wakeup.
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 16 2014,09:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 16 2014,16:14) Mikeb. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.
Which one of them do you Honour?
And which one do you worship?wakeup.
Wakeup,
They took that verse out of the new bibles. No wonder they are completely baffled with everything we are talking about. It's like a foreign language being spoken to them.
journey,You are correct that those extra words are no longer in any credible English Bible. But it's not because “they took the words out”. It's because those words aren't in any Greek mss until the 14th century. And if those words AREN'T in ANY of the many earlier Greek mss, but ARE in only TWO mss from the 14th century, it tells ALL OF US that those words are spurious, which means they weren't originally a part of what John wrote. THAT is why you won't find those words in the more recent Bibles.
The problem is that the KJV wasn't translated from the oldest and best Greek mss. It was translated from more recent copies that had already undergone many scribal additions to the original words.
The fact of the matter is that a scribe added those extra words IN THE MARGIN of a 12th century Greek ms. He didn't put those words IN THE TEXT, or attribute those words to the Apostle John. They were a “side note” of his own that he wrote in the MARGIN.
The very first KJV has the same kind of side notes, written in the margins beside the actual scriptural text. But we are NOT to add those side notes INTO THE TEXT. They are NOT part of the words written by the Biblical author. We are expected to know the difference between marginal notes and the actual Biblical text.
But what happened with 1 John 5:7 is that a LATER scribe, in the 14th century, was making a copy of the ms that the 12th century scribe had made many years earlier. And that 14th century scribe put that MARGINAL SIDE NOTE into the actual text – making it look like those extra words were part of what the Apostle John wrote.
This happened on TWO mss – out of HUNDREDS of them. Do you understand that? Only TWO Greek mss have those extra words in the text. Unfortunately, one of those two was the one the KJV scholars used.
I really want you to understand these things, journey. I want you to KNOW stuff that you didn't know before.
So hopefully, you now realize that those extra words were ADDED to only TWO Greek mss……. in the 14th century, and those words are not in any Greek mss before that time.
The bottom line is that those extra words are NOT a part of what John originally wrote, and are therefore NOT included in any more recent English Bible.
Okay, now on to Wakeup's questions:
I honor the Word of God, because the title “the Word of God” does NOT mean he is a literal word God spoke. It does NOT mean that he is a part of the being of God. It is a title that means he is God's main spokesman. He speaks the words of God, and is therefore poetically called “the Word of God”.
Just like the ancient King of Abyssinia had a spokesman called Kal Hatze – which means “The Word of the King”. Get it? Kal Hatze was not a literal word that the king spoke. Kal Hatze was not a part of the being of the king. He was given the title “The Word of the King” simply because he was the king's SPOKESMAN.
It is the same with Jesus. He has never been a literal word God spoke. He has been God's SPOKESMAN since the time God created him as His firstborn Son, and the first of His works.
It has never been a case of “he used to be God, but then wasn't, but now is again”. Jesus has been the SON of God from the moment he was created before the ages. He has never BEEN God Himself, and never will be.
Therefore I HONOR my God's servant and spokesman Jesus Christ. I do not WORSHIP him, because he is NOT God.
I don't believe God's Holy Spirit is a living PERSON – so I neither honor nor worship it.
And I do worship only the Father, because only the Father is God Almighty.
We are to worship only God, like Jesus told us. We are not to worship the things OF God. Don't forget about that little word “OF”, guys.
If it is the Word OF God, then it is not actually God Himself.
If it is the Holy Spirit OF God, then it is not actually God Himself.
We wouldn't worship the power OF God, or the wisdom OF God, or the righteousness OF God, would we?
So why then would we worship these other things OF God?
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 16 2014,09:58) It's like a foreign language being spoken to them.
When people quote the KJV, it IS like a foreign language being spoken!Nobody speaks Shakespearian English anymore!
mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote When the KJV knows the obeisance is being done to, say, King David, they translate as “obeisance” because they don't want any of us to think King David is God Almighty.
Yes, and not that, but we know that already.Quote But when the obeisance is being paid to Jesus, they translate as “worship” – because they DO want their readers to think Jesus is God Almighty.
If God preserved his Word like he said he did, and his Word is true, which we know it is, then God inspired the word worship, and not man. That verse in Hebrews was a prophesy.
And,the big trinitarian debate thing was not on then.…..Mike my mum was raised a strict catholic, who attended catholic schools, and she told me that never once were they taught that Jesus was God, ….. they always knew he was God's Son. So there was never an issue with that…….
and this was in the 1950-60's……that's her experience anyway.Quote So they translate as “worship” in the case of Jesus, even though “not one of those verses refers to worshipping God”. Can't you see the clear BIAS in that practice?
No, because I can see why.Mike, the point you were making is that the word obeisance was used so many times in the KJV.
I agreed, but in the proof you gave me, I said not one of those verses is speaking of worshipping God, but is referring to honouring man. Except the stars, they can't bow down and pray, or think, so the word obeisance fits perfectly like a glove in context to all those verses.The word obeisance is not used in the Hebrews KJV where you want it to fit, because you challenge the rhythm of interpretation, ….. but fail to see that the rhythm has changed,
and we are not talking about honouring man now, who had never been to heaven,
but one risen from the dead,
who has changed to spirit now,
the firstborn of the dead, the Son of God,
who sit's at the right hand of God,
and is the Word of God, who was there during creation,
and everything was created through him, and for him
Not just a man,
but the WORD OF GOD.
Doesn't that title mean anything to you?Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 16 2014,19:13) If God preserved his Word like he said he did, and his Word is true, which we know it is, then God inspired the word worship, and not man.
God inspired the Hebrew word “shachah”, and the Greek word “proskuneo”. The inspired writers of scripture spoke those two languages, journey. No inspired writer of scripture was ever said to have spoken English.And those two Hebrew and Greek words were later TRANSLATED into hundreds of different languages as hundreds of different things. Even the KJV translates them as “bowed before”, “paid homage” and “did obeisance” – ALONG WITH “worship”.
So you can't seriously believe that because the KJV TRANSLATORS (not inspired scripture WRITERS) chose to render the word as “worshiped” here, and as “did obeisance” there, these regular men were somehow inspired to make those particular translations in those particular verses. Or can you?
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 16 2014,19:13) ……rhythm has changed,
and we are not talking about honouring man now, who had never been to heaven,
but one risen from the dead,
who has changed to spirit now,
the firstborn of the dead, the Son of God,
who sit's at the right hand of God,
Mat 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.Mat 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.Mat 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.Mat 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.Mat 15:25
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.So when all the people mentioned above “worshipped” Jesus, he had already been raised from the dead and changed to spirit?
If not, how do you explain their supposed acts of “worship” to a man whom you agree was a creation at that time?
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 16 2014,19:13) Mike, the point you were making is that the word obeisance was used so many times in the KJV.
I agreed, but in the proof you gave me, I said not one of those verses is speaking of worshipping God, but is referring to honouring man.
Yes, the KJV indeed uses the word “obeisance” a number of times………. the word that Wakeup said was a “new word” designed to “put truth seekers astray” – or something like that.And I don't know how many times I'll have to say this, but you are making MY point for me.
All of the times the KJV used “obeisance”, it was in reference to a MAN – and not God, right?
So, was Jesus a MAN on earth? Or God?
If he was also a MAN – then why didn't the KJV people use “obeisance” also for Jesus?
If the disciples bowed before the MAN Jesus Christ, knowing full well he wasn't God, then were they “honoring a man”? Or “worshiping God”?
Which one?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,12:40) Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 16 2014,19:13) Mike, the point you were making is that the word obeisance was used so many times in the KJV.
I agreed, but in the proof you gave me, I said not one of those verses is speaking of worshipping God, but is referring to honouring man.
Yes, the KJV indeed uses the word “obeisance” a number of times………. the word that Wakeup said was a “new word” designed to “put truth seekers astray” – or something like that.And I don't know how many times I'll have to say this, but you are making MY point for me.
All of the times the KJV used “obeisance”, it was in reference to a MAN – and not God, right?
So, was Jesus a MAN on earth? Or God?
If he was also a MAN – then why didn't the KJV people use “obeisance” also for Jesus?
If the disciples bowed before the MAN Jesus Christ, knowing full well he wasn't God, then were they “honoring a man”? Or “worshiping God”?
Which one?
Mikeb.Yes, the Word of God was given the form of a man.
He is still the word of God,in man form was in spirit form.
They worship a man with all the fulness of God in Him.That man is still the Word of God,this has not changed.
The body has changed.If the greek version is without fault;then why do the greeks still worship the trinity? Why have they not found the true God? Why do you depend on them that are still seeking and have not found?
wakeup.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
