A false view of matthew 4:4?

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,20:18)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,15:21) j42 Quote You cannot correct us through the GREEK.  Whether that definition is right or wrong, this is your first mistake and we cannot understand things of the spirit through MEN.  You are going through MEN to God to gain understanding.  This is your stumbling block. You have been given a measure of understanding, but the full truth is being withheld from you. You will say blah blah blah, just answer the question Journey, but the spirit in me speaks to the spirit in you brother. and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   your claim is the same as mumbling and jumbling ;for that reason we know as you said  that wakeup and you are  blood  related , Mark 7:7   Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. this scripture as nothing to do with what is at stake here you took that out of context your first sentence means that if we find the very original in Greek language ;you would reject it because it is not the KJV now i am almost sure you would do that T. Quote and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   You are making up things to make j42 look like claiming power over others. Distasteful. This is proof; and shows, the spirit that is in you is dishonest and wicked indeed. I also can see jealousy at work. wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,06:28)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,20:18) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,15:21) j42 Quote You cannot correct us through the GREEK.  Whether that definition is right or wrong, this is your first mistake and we cannot understand things of the spirit through MEN.  You are going through MEN to God to gain understanding.  This is your stumbling block. You have been given a measure of understanding, but the full truth is being withheld from you. You will say blah blah blah, just answer the question Journey, but the spirit in me speaks to the spirit in you brother. and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   your claim is the same as mumbling and jumbling ;for that reason we know as you said  that wakeup and you are  blood  related , Mark 7:7   Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. this scripture as nothing to do with what is at stake here you took that out of context your first sentence means that if we find the very original in Greek language ;you would reject it because it is not the KJV now i am almost sure you would do that T. Quote and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   You are making up things to make j42 look like claiming power over others. Distasteful. This is proof; and shows, the spirit that is in you is dishonest and wicked indeed. I also can see jealousy at work. wakeup.

T.

Feeling guity?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,03:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,06:28) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,20:18) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,15:21) j42 Quote You cannot correct us through the GREEK.  Whether that definition is right or wrong, this is your first mistake and we cannot understand things of the spirit through MEN.  You are going through MEN to God to gain understanding.  This is your stumbling block. You have been given a measure of understanding, but the full truth is being withheld from you. You will say blah blah blah, just answer the question Journey, but the spirit in me speaks to the spirit in you brother. and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   your claim is the same as mumbling and jumbling ;for that reason we know as you said  that wakeup and you are  blood  related , Mark 7:7   Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. this scripture as nothing to do with what is at stake here you took that out of context your first sentence means that if we find the very original in Greek language ;you would reject it because it is not the KJV now i am almost sure you would do that T. Quote and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   You are making up things to make j42 look like claiming power over others. Distasteful. This is proof; and shows, the spirit that is in you is dishonest and wicked indeed. I also can see jealousy at work. wakeup.     T. Feeling guity? wakeup.

NO

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,10:23)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,03:19) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2014,06:28) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,20:18) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 10 2014,15:21) j42 Quote You cannot correct us through the GREEK.  Whether that definition is right or wrong, this is your first mistake and we cannot understand things of the spirit through MEN.  You are going through MEN to God to gain understanding.  This is your stumbling block. You have been given a measure of understanding, but the full truth is being withheld from you. You will say blah blah blah, just answer the question Journey, but the spirit in me speaks to the spirit in you brother. and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   your claim is the same as mumbling and jumbling ;for that reason we know as you said  that wakeup and you are  blood  related , Mark 7:7   Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. this scripture as nothing to do with what is at stake here you took that out of context your first sentence means that if we find the very original in Greek language ;you would reject it because it is not the KJV now i am almost sure you would do that T. Quote and you believe that you are now empowered over all others   You are making up things to make j42 look like claiming power over others. Distasteful. This is proof; and shows, the spirit that is in you is dishonest and wicked indeed. I also can see jealousy at work. wakeup.     T. Feeling guity? wakeup. NO

T.

Feeling nice and comfy in your warm nest, with no eggs?
Wait untill the storm comes.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

W

THE WICKET WILL FALL IN IS OWN MADE TRAP,

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:01)

W THE WICKET WILL FALL IN IS OWN MADE TRAP,

T.

You have learned something.
Yes, that is the case.Like satan is caught in his own trap.
Now he can not get out.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,19:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:01) W THE WICKET WILL FALL IN IS OWN MADE TRAP, T. You have learned something. Yes, that is the case.Like satan is caught in his own trap. Now he can not get out. wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:14)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,19:08) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:01) W THE WICKET WILL FALL IN IS OWN MADE TRAP, T. You have learned something. Yes, that is the case.Like satan is caught in his own trap. Now he can not get out. wakeup.

T.

You seem to like to smile a lot.
That must be your best position.
You must have nice teeth.
Say cheese.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,19:20)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,19:08) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:01) W THE WICKET WILL FALL IN IS OWN MADE TRAP, T. You have learned something. Yes, that is the case.Like satan is caught in his own trap. Now he can not get out. wakeup. T. You seem to like to smile a lot. That must be your best position. You must have nice teeth. Say cheese. wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:23)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,19:20) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,19:08) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,00:01) W THE WICKET WILL FALL IN IS OWN MADE TRAP, T. You have learned something. Yes, that is the case.Like satan is caught in his own trap. Now he can not get out. wakeup. T. You seem to like to smile a lot. That must be your best position. You must have nice teeth. Say cheese. wakeup.

T.

You have exhausted all the stickers.
There will be none left soon.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,05:03)

T.

Children are children,I understand.
They play with anything colourful.
But dont swallow them,you'll get hurt.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 12 2014,13:57)

terraricca,Jan. wrote: T. Children are children,I understand. They play with anything colourful. But dont swallow them,you'll get hurt. wakeup.

wakeup

that 's all you deserve

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 09 2014,21:58)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,12:06) Since Jesus was NOT God Almighty on earth, and since the Greek word “proskuneo” means “worshiped” AS WELL AS “did obeisance”, is it more sensible that the disciples, knowing Jesus was NOT God Almighty, “worshiped” him as if he was God?  Or that they “did obeisance (paid homage)” to him as their Lord and King, and a high-ranking servant OF God? Which one, please? Hi Mike, You cannot correct us through the GREEK.

What?    The NT was originally written in Greek, right?

Are you saying that it isn't of any importance that the Greek word “proskuneo” can refer to either “God-worship” OR the general paying of homage to anyone thought to be worthy of reverence?  

Please just ACKNOWLEDGE for me that both the Hebrew and Greek words for “worship” also mean “do obeisance”, “bow down before” and “pay homage” – and are translated as all of those things throughout scripture.

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 09 2014,21:58)

You can't have one without the other Mike.  If you worship God, you worship Jesus.  If you worship Jesus, you worship God.  They both go hand in hand together.

Are you saying that we are to worship BOTH the Master AND the servant He created?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 09 2014,21:58)

So you will come back and say “answer the question journey, obeisance is worship, just giving honor”, and I will say no Mike, you really are allowed to worship Jesus………..

Yes journey,

I WILL come back and say “answer the question”. I will do that any time the other person DOESN'T actually answer the question. Is that okay? Is it wrong for me to want my questions answered?

So here it is again:

If YOU know Jesus isn't actually God Almighty Himself, why in the world would you worship him? Which scripture tells us we should worship someone other than God Almighty Himself?

Also, since it's clear from scripture that the disciples knew Jesus WASN'T God Almighty Himself, is there any good scriptural reason for us to believe that these God fearing servants of Jehovah would WORSHIP Jesus?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,22:21)

j42 Quote You cannot correct us through the GREEK. your first sentence means that if we find the very original in Greek language ;you would reject it because it is not the KJV

That's also how I understood your words, journey.

Are you really saying that if we were to find the very original texts that were written in Greek, we would still consider the GREEK meaning of those words to be unimportant?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 10 2014,10:49)

Mike however does not understand the prophesies, so he is still a babe in Christ. No offence Mike, but you have admitted this yourself.

I don't understand them according to WHOSE interpretation, journey? Yours? Pierre's? The expert scholar Gill? Or the 400 other expert scholars who all have their own “understanding” of those mysterious prophecies?

The fact is that many people THINK they are the ONE with the “true and exact understanding” of these prophecies, but not one of us truly understands everything about them.

But I am letting myself get derailed here. This discussion isn't about the Greek language or the prophesies. This discussion is about the fact that you know Jesus ISN'T God Almighty Himself.

And that acknowledgement brings two points I want to get to the bottom of:

1. If Jesus WASN'T God Almighty Himself on earth, then does it make sense that the disciples worshiped him as if he WAS God Almighty on earth?

2. If Jesus WASN'T God Almighty Himself on earth, but he IS “the Word of God”, then either “the Word of God” was NEVER God Almighty Himself, or a part of God Almighty Himself stopped being God Almighty, and started being someone OTHER THAN God Almighty.

We are currently discussing the first one. The second one will come in time.

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,07:40)

Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 09 2014,21:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,12:06) Since Jesus was NOT God Almighty on earth, and since the Greek word “proskuneo” means “worshiped” AS WELL AS “did obeisance”, is it more sensible that the disciples, knowing Jesus was NOT God Almighty, “worshiped” him as if he was God?  Or that they “did obeisance (paid homage)” to him as their Lord and King, and a high-ranking servant OF God? Which one, please? Hi Mike, You cannot correct us through the GREEK.   What?    The NT was originally written in Greek, right? Are you saying that it isn't of any importance that the Greek word “proskuneo” can refer to either “God-worship” OR the general paying of homage to anyone thought to be worthy of reverence?   Please just ACKNOWLEDGE for me that both the Hebrew and Greek words for “worship” also mean “do obeisance”, “bow down before” and “pay homage” – and are translated as all of those things throughout scripture. Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 09 2014,21:58) You can't have one without the other Mike.  If you worship God, you worship Jesus.  If you worship Jesus, you worship God.  They both go hand in hand together. Are you saying that we are to worship BOTH the Master AND the servant He created?

Mike

I know what you are saying, but please listen to what I am saying.
Greek is for scholars. Scholars get their degrees at university. University's are of the world.
The Word of God is spirit, and the holy spirit is our teacher. God made it possible for us to know his word in our own language, and that happens to be english. This is God's doing. The hard work has been done for us, so we need to look at what the verses are actually saying. Use the bible as your dictionary.

Hebrews1:6Andagain,whenhebringethinthefirstbegottenintotheworld,hesaith,AndletalltheangelsofGodworshiphim.[/color class="bbcode-color">

There's your dictionary.

Jesus never gave himself glory.
God gives him the glory.
Jesus told us to worship the Father through him.
The Father instructs the angels to worship Jesus.
Jesus is acting on his Father's behalf, because he is worthy.
If one worships Jesus, he has not sinned.
You can't have one without the other.
Jesus has the power to give the holy spirit,
and he also has the power to forgive sins.
He is one with the Father.

I answered you with an explanation of why we can worship Jesus. What more can I do? A yes or no answer will not suffice.

[journey42]

mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

I don't understand them according to WHOSE interpretation, journey?  Yours?  Pierre's?  The expert scholar Gill?  Or the 400 other expert scholars who all have their own “understanding” of those mysterious prophecies?

Mike, you never get involved with the prophesies.  Do not be offended.  When we are weaned of the milk, we go on to solids.  The prophesies are the solids.  It's got nothing to do with intelligence, but feeding the spirit.  We don't go round and round the same thing, we move on to the harder stuff.
Why?
BECAUSE MANY OF THE PROPHECIES CONCERN THE LAST DAYS, AND WE WILL NOT BE PREPARED IF WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS COMING.  WE WILL TAKE THE WRONG TURN NO MATTER HOW MUCH FAITH WE HAVE, WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE OF THIS WE WILL STUMBLE.
AND IF WE UNDERSTAND THE PROPHECIES, WE WILL DISCERN WHAT IS PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE AND NOT GET IT ALL MIXED UP SAYING THAT WAS PAST….WHEN IT'S COMING.

Quote

The fact is that many people THINK they are the ONE with the “true and exact understanding” of these prophecies, but not one of us truly understands everything about them.

You would like to think that, but I disagree.  God gives every man according to his measure.  If you are not interested in the prophesies, you will not learn what they mean will you?
They will be missing from your diet.

Quote

But I am letting myself get derailed here.  This discussion isn't about the Greek language or the prophesies.  This discussion is about the fact that you know Jesus ISN'T God Almighty Himself.

Jesus is not God Almighty, I declare that, but before he was Jesus, he was the Word of God.  The bible says that, and as confusing as it sounds to everyone, I understand it and get it.

Quote

And that acknowledgement brings two points I want to get to the bottom of: 1.  If Jesus WASN'T God Almighty Himself on earth, then does it make sense that the disciples worshiped him as if he WAS God Almighty on earth?

The disciples knew Jesus was the Son of God.  Jesus told them how to pray…Our Father, who art in heaven etc.
But during the millennium, God is going to take a rest for a thousand years.  He has left everything to Christ.  Has given him a throne, and even called him God.  He has said, take over for a while, and he is in direct communication with God always.  So it makes no difference.  Worship the son, you have the Father, worship the Father, you have the son.  CHRIST IS GIVEN ALL AUTHORITY, AND SEEING AS EVERYTHING WAS CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM, THIS ENTITLES HIM.

Quote

2.  If Jesus WASN'T God Almighty Himself on earth, but he IS “the Word of God”, then either “the Word of God” was NEVER God Almighty Himself, or a part of God Almighty Himself stopped being God Almighty, and started being someone OTHER THAN God Almighty.

Jesus was….the Word of God.   Was. …..God's Word.  He came forth from the Father….And the Word became flesh.  Not God became flesh, but his Word.  THIS IS WHEN THE WORD BECAME A CREATURE.  WHEN THE WORD WAS MADE MAN.  BEFORE THAT THERE WAS NO JESUS.  JUST GOD AND HIS WORD.  CHECK THE SCRIPTURES.  GOD MADE EVERYTHING WITH THE BREATH OF HIS MOUTH.  HIS WORD.  THIS IS A MYSTERY AND OBVIOUSLY WE CANNOT REVEAL THIS TO YOU, BUT ONLY GOD CAN GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING.

[journey42]

mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

I WILL come back and say “answer the question”.  I will do that any time the other person DOESN'T actually answer the question.  Is that okay?  Is it wrong for me to want my questions answered?

Mike,

I only said that because I knew you would not hear my explanation.  Your temperature would start rising, your heart would beat faster and that adrenalin would start kicking in.
All you would hear from me is this; *&;#@#$%##@!!($%$

[Author]

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