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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2013,02:57) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 29 2013,17:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 28 2013,17:52)
BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR.
NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.
Mike B.The apostles always knew and believed that Jesus is not God………
Good. Now take the combination of both of the things YOU just said, and tell me if Jesus was WORSHIPED by the disciples.
Mike B.Was Jesus not called *Lord* by his disciples?
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and *him only* shalt thou serve.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith **unto me**, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of *my Father* which is in heaven.
Jesus said: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God only.
He also said: not every one that said to *ME* Lord,Lord
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.So you work it out.
As I always have said that God and His Word is one God.
You worship Jesus;you worship God;you worship God,you worship Jesus.And let all the angels worship Him: so how can we worship God and NOT worship his word?
How can we worship God's Word and not worship God?wakeup.
Really Wakeup? Wasn't David also called “Lord” by people? And Elijah? And many others?
Are you seriously saying that Jesus, as “Lord”, deserves the WORSHIP of men and angels, but these other “Lords” do not?
What is your basis for this conclusion?
Quote As I always have said that God and His Word is one God.
Oh, well that kind of explains your understanding.But you keep flip-flopping back and forth on this issue, clearly displaying that you are confused by your own teaching.
You say the Word is NOT God, but then say that God and His Word is one God.
How is a sensible person like me supposed to understand the clear contradictions in your own words?
Just face it, Wakeup. You are a confused man. And your confusion comes from faulty translations like “and the Word was God“ and “let all the angels worship him”.
If you ever hope to stop spouting nonsensical contradictions, you need to recognize the various flaws in the KJV translation, and look to the original Hebrew and Greek words. Then you can see for yourself the various ways those words could be translated, and decide for yourself if the servant OF God is “worshiped” as if he is God Himself, or is “bowed down before” as a King.
Look to your own words for the answer. You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, is Jesus our King? Or is he God Almighty Himself? Which one?
Wakeup, do you consider the man Jesus to be a CREATION of God? YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2013,04:11) Really Wakeup? Wasn't David also called “Lord” by people? And Elijah? And many others? Are you seriously saying that Jesus, as “Lord”, deserves the WORSHIP of men and angels, but these other “Lords” do not?
What is your basis for this conclusion?
Quote As I always have said that God and His Word is one God.
Oh, well that kind of explains your understanding.But you keep flip-flopping back and forth on this issue, clearly displaying that you are confused by your own teaching.
You say the Word is NOT God, but then say that God and His Word is one God.
How is a sensible person like me supposed to understand the clear contradictions in your own words?
Just face it, Wakeup. You are a confused man. And your confusion comes from faulty translations like “and the Word was God“ and “let all the angels worship him”.
If you ever hope to stop spouting nonsensical contradictions, you need to recognize the various flaws in the KJV translation, and look to the original Hebrew and Greek words. Then you can see for yourself the various ways those words could be translated, and decide for yourself if the servant OF God is “worshiped” as if he is God Himself, or is “bowed down before” as a King.
Look to your own words for the answer. You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, is Jesus our King? Or is he God Almighty Himself? Which one?
Wakeup, do you consider the man Jesus to be a CREATION of God? YES or NO?
Mike B.The answer is NO.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
***The mighty God***, ***The everlasting Father***,
The Prince of Peace.You try to fit this scripture into your doctrine,without twisting it.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,12:56) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,12:47) Wakeup, Do God's angels need to be instructed to worship God?
Kerwin.You should know that.
They are in heaven with God,seen God,and heard his voice.
But they have not seen death,felt pain, cry in tears,murder,
torture,and sufferings.
This they have learned by observing mankind.
Evil must come to the full for all to learn,and then it will be destroyed.Death must come to mankind for our learning,and then destroyed.
1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, *but unto us* they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; **which things the angels desire to look into**.
The angels are also spiritually hungry for knowledge.
Although they have knowledge,and plenty of it.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not see how any of that answered my question.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,12:56) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,12:47) Wakeup, Do God's angels need to be instructed to worship God?
Kerwin.You should know that.
They are in heaven with God,seen God,and heard his voice.
But they have not seen death,felt pain, cry in tears,murder,
torture,and sufferings.
This they have learned by observing mankind.
Evil must come to the full for all to learn,and then it will be destroyed.Death must come to mankind for our learning,and then destroyed.
1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, *but unto us* they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; **which things the angels desire to look into**.
The angels are also spiritually hungry for knowledge.
Although they have knowledge,and plenty of it.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not see how any of that answered my question.
Kerwin.What a silly question.
The angels do not need instructions.
They know and can see God,and understand that he is the creator of all;therefore only He is to be worshipped.We can not see God.Have not been to heaven.
This is why we need to be given intructions about God.wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,02:38) w Quote The angels do not need instructions. where is that written in scriptures
T.You are showing your robot like worship.
Every kingdom has rules and laws.
The holy mountain of God/kingdom;also have rules
and laws. If you can not understand this than; I wash my hands with water and disinfectant soap.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,06:30) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,12:56) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,12:47) Wakeup, Do God's angels need to be instructed to worship God?
Kerwin.You should know that.
They are in heaven with God,seen God,and heard his voice.
But they have not seen death,felt pain, cry in tears,murder,
torture,and sufferings.
This they have learned by observing mankind.
Evil must come to the full for all to learn,and then it will be destroyed.Death must come to mankind for our learning,and then destroyed.
1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, *but unto us* they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; **which things the angels desire to look into**.
The angels are also spiritually hungry for knowledge.
Although they have knowledge,and plenty of it.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not see how any of that answered my question.
Kerwin.What a silly question.
The angels do not need instructions.
They know and can see God,and understand that he is the creator of all;therefore only He is to be worshipped.We can not see God.Have not been to heaven.
This is why we need to be given intructions about God.wakeup.
Wakeup,Yet you are claiming that they require to be instructed to worship the word that comes out of his mouth.
Note: inserted the word “be” that I had previously dropped.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,06:16) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,02:38) w Quote The angels do not need instructions. where is that written in scriptures
T.You are showing your robot like worship.
Every kingdom has rules and laws.
The holy mountain of God/kingdom;also have rules
and laws. If you can not understand this than; I wash my hands with water and disinfectant soap.wakeup.
WNOW YOU ARE CHANGING ,NOW THEY NEED INSTRUCTION
FLIP FLOP
THIS TIRES ME DOWN ,
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,11:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,06:30) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,05:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,12:56) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,12:47) Wakeup, Do God's angels need to be instructed to worship God?
Kerwin.You should know that.
They are in heaven with God,seen God,and heard his voice.
But they have not seen death,felt pain, cry in tears,murder,
torture,and sufferings.
This they have learned by observing mankind.
Evil must come to the full for all to learn,and then it will be destroyed.Death must come to mankind for our learning,and then destroyed.
1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, *but unto us* they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; **which things the angels desire to look into**.
The angels are also spiritually hungry for knowledge.
Although they have knowledge,and plenty of it.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not see how any of that answered my question.
Kerwin.What a silly question.
The angels do not need instructions.
They know and can see God,and understand that he is the creator of all;therefore only He is to be worshipped.We can not see God.Have not been to heaven.
This is why we need to be given intructions about God.wakeup.
Wakeup,Yet you are claiming that they require to be instructed to worship the word that comes out of his mouth.
Note: inserted the word “be” that I had previously dropped.
Kerwin.The angels like to know what is instructed to men.
They have never seen sufferings and death.
Now they know.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,14:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2013,04:11)
Wakeup, do you consider the man Jesus to be a CREATION of God? YES or NO?
Mike B.The answer is NO.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
***The mighty God***, ***The everlasting Father***,
The Prince of Peace.You try to fit this scripture into your doctrine,without twisting it.
wakeup.
So, “NO”, you DON'T believe the man Jesus Christ is a creation of God? What DO you believe then?As for Isaiah 9:6, which part of it exactly do you think is NOT aligned with my doctrine?
Wakeup,
You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, was Jesus a “MAN KING” when he was on earth? YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:19) Wakeup, You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, was Jesus a “MAN KING” when he was on earth? YES or NO?
MikeB.NO:
Jeus was not born to be a king as yet.
He came to be sacrificed,and to be the light of the world.
He willl be king in his kingdom.
His kingdom will be set up after babylon is destroyed.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 06 2013,10:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:19) Wakeup, You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, was Jesus a “MAN KING” when he was on earth? YES or NO?
MikeB.NO:
Jeus was not born to be a king as yet.
He came to be sacrificed,and to be the light of the world.
He willl be king in his kingdom.
His kingdom will be set up after babylon is destroyed.wakeup.
WQuote Jeus was not born to be a king as yet. Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”JESUS WAS NOT EVEN CONCEIVED YET .
Lk 2:11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
Lk 2:29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you now dismiss your servant in peace.
Lk 2:30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
Lk 2:31 which you have prepared in the sight of all people,
Lk 2:32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles
and for glory to your people Israel.”Mt 2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem
Mt 2:2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”READ THE SCRIPTURES
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2013,02:11) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 06 2013,10:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:19) Wakeup, You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, was Jesus a “MAN KING” when he was on earth? YES or NO?
MikeB.NO:
Jeus was not born to be a king as yet.
He came to be sacrificed,and to be the light of the world.
He willl be king in his kingdom.
His kingdom will be set up after babylon is destroyed.wakeup.
WQuote Jeus was not born to be a king as yet. Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”JESUS WAS NOT EVEN CONCEIVED YET .
Lk 2:11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
Lk 2:29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you now dismiss your servant in peace.
Lk 2:30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
Lk 2:31 which you have prepared in the sight of all people,
Lk 2:32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles
and for glory to your people Israel.”Mt 2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem
Mt 2:2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”READ THE SCRIPTURES
T.Quote Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”HE *WILL* BE GREAT.(future).
HE *WILL* REIGN.(future).Quote Mt 2:2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.” JESUS INDEED *WILL* BE KING OF THE JEWS(SPIRITUAL JEWS) AND PHYSICAL JEWS,IN HIS KINGDOM TO COME.
THE KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD BELONGS TO SATAN.
IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD THERE WILL BE NO SATAN.JESUS WAS NOT BORN TO BE KING OF THE JEWS,BUT TO BE SACRIFICED. GOD'S SACRIFICIAL LAMB.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 06 2013,22:40) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2013,02:11) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 06 2013,10:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:19) Wakeup, You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, was Jesus a “MAN KING” when he was on earth? YES or NO?
MikeB.NO:
Jeus was not born to be a king as yet.
He came to be sacrificed,and to be the light of the world.
He willl be king in his kingdom.
His kingdom will be set up after babylon is destroyed.wakeup.
WQuote Jeus was not born to be a king as yet. Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”JESUS WAS NOT EVEN CONCEIVED YET .
Lk 2:11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
Lk 2:29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you now dismiss your servant in peace.
Lk 2:30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
Lk 2:31 which you have prepared in the sight of all people,
Lk 2:32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles
and for glory to your people Israel.”Mt 2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem
Mt 2:2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”READ THE SCRIPTURES
T.Quote Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”HE *WILL* BE GREAT.(future).
HE *WILL* REIGN.(future).Quote Mt 2:2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.” JESUS INDEED *WILL* BE KING OF THE JEWS(SPIRITUAL JEWS) AND PHYSICAL JEWS,IN HIS KINGDOM TO COME.
THE KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD BELONGS TO SATAN.
IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD THERE WILL BE NO SATAN.JESUS WAS NOT BORN TO BE KING OF THE JEWS,BUT TO BE SACRIFICED. GOD'S SACRIFICIAL LAMB.
wakeup.
WAGAIN you believe your own version ,I do not have my own version AND SO I READ THAT CHRIST IS BORN A KING AND MESSIAH JUST AS SCRIPTURES SAYS,
YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT ;IT IS YOUR CHOICE NOT MINE ,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,14:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2013,04:11)
Wakeup, do you consider the man Jesus to be a CREATION of God? YES or NO?
Mike B.The answer is NO.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
***The mighty God***, ***The everlasting Father***,
The Prince of Peace.You try to fit this scripture into your doctrine,without twisting it.
wakeup.
So, “NO”, you DON'T believe the man Jesus Christ is a creation of God? What DO you believe then?As for Isaiah 9:6, which part of it exactly do you think is NOT aligned with my doctrine?
MikeB.Here is one of them.
And the Word was A God;instead of the Word was God.
There is only one everlasting father.
Call no man father on the earth,for *ONE* is your Father in heaven.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:19) Wakeup, You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, was Jesus a “MAN KING” when he was on earth? YES or NO?
MikeB.NO: Jesus was not born to be king;but to be the light
of the world.And to be the Lamb of God.
His reward will be king of kings in his kingdom on earth
in israel. **He will rule the world from Jerusalem**.
Today Nethanyahu is ruling israel.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 06 2013,19:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:16)
As for Isaiah 9:6, which part of it exactly do you think is NOT aligned with my doctrine?
MikeB.Here is one of them.
And the Word was A God;instead of the Word was God.
There is only one everlasting father.
Call no man father on the earth,for *ONE* is your Father in heaven.wakeup.
For “everlasting father” in Isaiah 9:6, NETNotes says,
This title must not be taken in an anachronistic Trinitarian sense. (To do so would be theologically problematic, for the “Son” is the messianic king and is distinct in his person from God the “Father.”)Rather, in its original context the title pictures the king as the protector of his people. For a similar use of “father” see Isa 22:21 and Job 29:16.
This figurative, idiomatic use of “father” is not limited to the Bible.
I suggest you READ the scriptures they listed above, Wakeup.
Isaiah 22 KJV
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Job 29:16 KJV
I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.Also,
2 Kings 2:12 KJV
And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof.2 Kings 13:14 KJV
And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof.There are many other verses where a BENEFACTOR is idiomatically called “father” in scripture.
So, is Jesus our BENEFACTOR? Yes. Will he be our BENEFACTOR for eternity? Yes. So therefore, “everlasting father” fits our BENEFACTOR Jesus perfectly.
These are the things you can LEARN Wakeup – if you would just take the time to do so.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 06 2013,19:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 06 2013,09:19) Wakeup, You recently said: “BOWING DOWN TO A MAN KING IS SHOWING HONOUR. NOT WORSHIP. WE DONT PRAY TO A KING.”
Well, was Jesus a “MAN KING” when he was on earth? YES or NO?
MikeB.NO: Jesus was not born to be king………
1.Matthew 2:2
and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews?”2.Matthew 27:11
Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” “You have said so,” Jesus replied.3.Matthew 27:29
and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand. Then they knelt in front of him and mocked him. “Hail, king of the Jews!” they said.
4.Matthew 27:37
Above his head they placed the written charge against him: this is Jesus, the king of the Jews.5.Mark 15:2
“Are you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate. “You have said so,” Jesus replied.6.Mark 15:9
“Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate,7.Mark 15:12
“What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” Pilate asked them.8.Mark 15:18
And they began to call out to him, “Hail, king of the Jews!”9.Mark 15:26
The written notice of the charge against him read: the king of the Jews.10.Luke 23:3
So Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?” “You have said so,” Jesus replied.11.Luke 23:37
and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.”12.Luke 23:38
There was a written notice above him, which read: this is the king of the Jews.
13.John 18:33
Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”14.John 18:39
But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
15.John 19:3
and went up to him again and again, saying, “Hail, king of the Jews!” And they slapped him in the face.16.John 19:19
Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: Jesus of Nazareth, the king of the Jews.
17.John 19:21
The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”
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