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Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 02 2013,13:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2013,07:54) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 01 2013,03:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2013,11:52) Wakeup, If he is the Word OF God, and can be WITH God, then he is not actually God Himself.
To me, this is simple God-given common sense.
True:Because we and the angels are commanded to worship
him; Does not make him Jehovah.
You're confusing me, Wakeup. Do you believe the Word IS Jehovah, or someone other than Jehovah?It seems that you are saying each one of those things in various posts.
Don be confused/it will get clearer.Jehovah's Word,**remains** Jehova's word,for ever.
Jehovah possesses his Word inside his mind.
Jehovah created all things not with his hands;
but with just *commanding* it to to be. By just willing it.
And his Word will say it.(LET THERE BE LIGHT; AND THERE WAS LIGHT).
(JEHOVAH'S IMAGE SPOKE AT JEHOVAH'S *WILL* ONLY).But before all things; He brought forth out of himself
his Word, and made *Him* at will,*his image*.The image of Jehovah was brought *out* of Jehovah,at will.
And He is Jehovah's *LIVING* Word. All things are made
by/through Him.His power is Jehovah's will. Without Jehovah's will
He can not do anything.
Then; Jehovah will's him to come down to earth as a simple man. And also speaks AT Jehovah's will,and *DOES* at Jehovah's will. It is *He* that died on the cross.Not Jehovah.It will be *HIM* coming back in the clouds,at Jehovahs will. (Sit thou at my right hand untill; I(Jehovah) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL.
He is waiting for the command to come down again with
the wrath of Jehovah.If it's still not clear,let me know.
It took me many years,before I could see.wakeup.
Quote If it's still not clear,let me know.
It took me many years,before I could see.IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU STILL DID NOT GET IT ;AND TRY TO TEACH OTHERS
MIC 5:9 Your hand will be lifted up against your adversaries,
And all your enemies will be cut off.AC 2:35 UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.”’
AC 7:49 ‘HEAVEN IS MY THRONE,
AND EARTH IS THE FOOTSTOOL OF MY FEET;
WHAT KIND OF HOUSE WILL YOU BUILD FOR ME?’ says the Lord,
‘OR WHAT PLACE IS THERE FOR MY REPOSE?
HEB 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET”?
HEB 10:13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.AND WHAT OR WHO ARE THOSE ENEMIES
REV 2:10 ‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
REV 12:11 “And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne(FOOTSTOOL=EARTH), and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.IT SEEMS THAT AT THIS POINT ALL THE ENEMIES OF GOD AND CHRIST ARE DESTROYED INCLUDING DEATH ITSELF ,
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 03 2013,07:37) Terra. The topic is Jehovah and his Word.
Not the resurrection.
wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2013,13:31) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 03 2013,07:37) Terra. The topic is Jehovah and his Word.
Not the resurrection.
wakeup.
This is because you have no clue what we were
discussing.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 03 2013,10:08) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2013,13:31) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 03 2013,07:37) Terra. The topic is Jehovah and his Word.
Not the resurrection.
wakeup.
This is because you have no clue what we were
discussing.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 02 2013,01:31) If it's still not clear,let me know.
It wasn't clear at all, Wakeup. But you don't have to explain any further.I know that Jesus is a being who is not God Himself. And I know that Jesus bears the title “The Word of God”. It was the Apostle John who called him by that title in Revelation 19:13. And John wrote Revelation before he wrote his other letters.
It isn't hard for me to see that John used this “Word of God” title in a couple of his other books. He does so in John 1, and in 1 John 1. In both cases, “the Word” refers to the same exact person that it refers to in his other letter, Revelation.
In Revelation, “the Word” is a being other than God Almighty. “The Word” is likewise a being other than God Almighty in John 1 and 1 John 1. That being is Jesus Christ. He has never been God Almighty. He has, since his creation, been the only begotten SON of God – not God Himself.
He was the Son of God in John 1:1, where it is said that he was with God Almighty in the beginning, and was himself a god.
He was the Son of God in 1 John 1:1-2, where he was the “Word of Life” who was seen by human eyes and touched by human hands.
And he is the Son of God in Revelation 19:13, where he will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes.
He has never been anything other than the Son of God.
Your very confusing understanding, as outlined in your last post to me, is the result of refusing to accept the correct translation of John 1:1 – which is, “and the Word was a god”.
My understanding is solid, because Jesus is indeed a god. He is called as much many times in scripture – and John 1:1 is merely one of those times. So it's not hard to figure out that the one through whom God created all things in heaven and earth is identified as “the Word” in John 1, and as “Jesus Christ” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Hebrews 1:2. It's not hard, because “the Word” and “Jesus Christ” both refer to the same exact being who is God's firstborn Son – and the beginning of God's creation. That's why so many things are said about “the Word” that are also said about “Jesus Christ”……… because they are the same person.
So yes, Jesus was a god who was WITH God Almighty in the beginning. All things were created through him. He was the light who came into the world. He was made flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son – because he had never been anything other than God's only begotten Son.
If you understand it differently, it's okay by me. The above is a brief summary of my understanding. It aligns with each and every scripture in the Bible. It has no contradictions. I have studied for years about this subject, and it is the result of that in-depth scriptural research that I believe as I do.
You won't change my mind.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 04 2013,11:33) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 02 2013,01:31) If it's still not clear,let me know.
It wasn't clear at all, Wakeup. But you don't have to explain any further.I know that Jesus is a being who is not God Himself. And I know that Jesus bears the title “The Word of God”. It was the Apostle John who called him by that title in Revelation 19:13. And John wrote Revelation before he wrote his other letters.
It isn't hard for me to see that John used this “Word of God” title in a couple of his other books. He does so in John 1, and in 1 John 1. In both cases, “the Word” refers to the same exact person that it refers to in his other letter, Revelation.
In Revelation, “the Word” is a being other than God Almighty. “The Word” is likewise a being other than God Almighty in John 1 and 1 John 1. That being is Jesus Christ. He has never been God Almighty. He has, since his creation, been the only begotten SON of God – not God Himself.
He was the Son of God in John 1:1, where it is said that he was with God Almighty in the beginning, and was himself a god.
He was the Son of God in 1 John 1:1-2, where he was the “Word of Life” who was seen by human eyes and touched by human hands.
And he is the Son of God in Revelation 19:13, where he will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes.
He has never been anything other than the Son of God.
Your very confusing understanding, as outlined in your last post to me, is the result of refusing to accept the correct translation of John 1:1 – which is, “and the Word was a god”.
My understanding is solid, because Jesus is indeed a god. He is called as much many times in scripture – and John 1:1 is merely one of those times. So it's not hard to figure out that the one through whom God created all things in heaven and earth is identified as “the Word” in John 1, and as “Jesus Christ” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Hebrews 1:2. It's not hard, because “the Word” and “Jesus Christ” both refer to the same exact being who is God's firstborn Son – and the beginning of God's creation. That's why so many things are said about “the Word” that are also said about “Jesus Christ”……… because they are the same person.
So yes, Jesus was a god who was WITH God Almighty in the beginning. All things were created through him. He was the light who came into the world. He was made flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son – because he had never been anything other than God's only begotten Son.
If you understand it differently, it's okay by me. The above is a brief summary of my understanding. It aligns with each and every scripture in the Bible. It has no contradictions. I have studied for years about this subject, and it is the result of that in-depth scriptural research that I believe as I do.
You won't change my mind.
peace,
mike
Mike B.Good explanation:
But God is one; there is no other God beside him.
And beside him there is no saviour.You believe that there is God, and there is another God
which is the Word of God,as seperate from God.Before God started creating, his Word *is* God.(not *was* God).
Meaning: the Word was inside God.
Meaning God was alone,a spirit.
Then he brought out of himself his own image.
He is still one;the other is his image.
If you look in the mirror you see two.
But are you two? No.
You are still one.wakeup.
No Wakeup. The Word has never been God Almighty Himself. “The Word” is simply a title for God's main spokesman, who happens to also be God's firstborn and only begotten Son.
He has never been God Himself. He has always been the first creation God ever made.
He was with God Almighty in the beginning – as a separate and individual being. And in Biblical terms, he has always been a god. Not THE god, but a lesser god. Therefore, not “a God”, as you've posted, but “a god”, like I posted. Jehovah and Jesus are but two of the many gods who exist both in heaven and on earth. Jehovah is the Most High of them all.
Wakeup, I don't believe you've ever answered my point:
Is it your understanding that someTHING that WAS God Almighty Himself became someONE who is no longer God Almighty Himself? YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2013,02:21) No Wakeup. The Word has never been God Almighty Himself. “The Word” is simply a title for God's main spokesman, who happens to also be God's firstborn and only begotten Son. He has never been God Himself. He has always been the first creation God ever made.
He was with God Almighty in the beginning – as a separate and individual being. And in Biblical terms, he has always been a god. Not THE god, but a lesser god. Therefore, not “a God”, as you've posted, but “a god”, like I posted. Jehovah and Jesus are but two of the many gods who exist both in heaven and on earth. Jehovah is the Most High of them all.
Wakeup, I don't believe you've ever answered my point:
Is it your understanding that someTHING that WAS God Almighty Himself became someONE who is no longer God Almighty Himself? YES or NO?
MikeB.That only means that there is God,and his first creature his *spokesman*.doing all the work.
God says: is there a God beside me? no there is no God.
Beside me there is no saviour.
**I created all things by my self**.Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: **for thou hast created all things**, and **for thy pleasure** they are and were created.
John 1:3.All things were made by him.wothout him was not anything made that was made.
THIS MEANS THAT THE **SPOKESMAN** WAS ALSO MADE BY THE WORD. THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THE SPOKESMAN CAN NOT BE THE WORD,FOR THE WORD CREATED HIM.Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; **God himself** that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.The breath of his mouth is his Word.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) That only means that there is God,and his first creature his *spokesman*.doing all the work.
Read Proverbs 8, Wakeup. Jesus was the “craftsman at God's side”. Also read 1 Cor 8:6, where we learn that all things are FROM God, and THROUGH Jesus.God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created all things THROUGH Jesus Christ, His firstborn. Don't confuse the one through whom the thing is created with the one who actually did the creating. From Tertullian: He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) God says: is there a God beside me? no there is no God.
Beside me there is no saviour.
Yes. Yet we know from other scriptures that God was speaking emphatically, and not literally, when He said those things. We know this because we know there ARE indeed many other gods. And we know that Jehovah Himself has SENT many other saviors…….. including Jesus Christ.Jehovah also tells us emphatically that He is the ONLY rock. But we know that statement was also emphatic, because we know that Jehovah wasn't literally the rock upon which Moses stood when watching the glory of Jehovah pass by, right? We know there exist MANY rocks, right?
Jesus also emphatically told us that no one is good but God alone. But we know that statement was emphatic, because Jesus calls himself “the good shepherd”, right?
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) John 1:3.All things were made by him.wothout him was not anything made that was made.
THIS MEANS THAT THE **SPOKESMAN** WAS ALSO MADE BY THE WORD. THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THE SPOKESMAN CAN NOT BE THE WORD,FOR THE WORD CREATED HIM.
A better translation is, All things were made THROUGH him. But you and I have already acknowledged that the KJV's “by” means the same as our “through”.And when the scriptures say that Jehovah created ALL THINGS, isn't it understood that Jehovah Himself isn't one of the “ALL THINGS” He created? Of course it is. And when God places ALL THINGS at the feet of Jesus, isn't it understood that God Himself is not included in the “ALL THINGS” that are placed at Jesus' feet? Of course it is.
Why then wouldn't the same common sense be applied to John 1:3? Surely it should be understood that all things, EXCEPT FOR HIMSELF, were created through the Word, right?
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Don't confuse the words God spoke when speaking things into creation with God's spokesman, The Word of God.99% of the time, “word of God” refers simply to words that God spoke, wrote, or thought. Only on rare occasions does that phrase “word of God” refer to an actual, living being. So don't make it refer to a living being ALL THE TIME, Wakeup… or you will become confused.
We both agree that the Word of God in Revelation 19:13 is Jesus Christ, so let's work it back to front.
1. Is Jesus Christ God Himself? Or is he the Son of God like the scriptures teach?
2. If Jesus is the Son of God, like the scriptures teach, then has he ALWAYS BEEN the Son of God, since his creation? Or did he used to be God Almighty Himself, and then became someone OTHER THAN and LESS THAN God Almighty?
You really need to start addressing these bolded parts of my posts, Wakeup. Otherwise, we're just spinning our wheels here.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2013,11:56) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) That only means that there is God,and his first creature his *spokesman*.doing all the work.
Read Proverbs 8, Wakeup. Jesus was the “craftsman at God's side”. Also read 1 Cor 8:6, where we learn that all things are FROM God, and THROUGH Jesus.God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created all things THROUGH Jesus Christ, His firstborn. Don't confuse the one through whom the thing is created with the one who actually did the creating. From Tertullian: He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) God says: is there a God beside me? no there is no God.
Beside me there is no saviour.
Yes. Yet we know from other scriptures that God was speaking emphatically, and not literally, when He said those things. We know this because we know there ARE indeed many other gods. And we know that Jehovah Himself has SENT many other saviors…….. including Jesus Christ.Jehovah also tells us emphatically that He is the ONLY rock. But we know that statement was also emphatic, because we know that Jehovah wasn't literally the rock upon which Moses stood when watching the glory of Jehovah pass by, right? We know there exist MANY rocks, right?
Jesus also emphatically told us that no one is good but God alone. But we know that statement was emphatic, because Jesus calls himself “the good shepherd”, right?
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) John 1:3.All things were made by him.wothout him was not anything made that was made.
THIS MEANS THAT THE **SPOKESMAN** WAS ALSO MADE BY THE WORD. THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THE SPOKESMAN CAN NOT BE THE WORD,FOR THE WORD CREATED HIM.
A better translation is, All things were made THROUGH him. But you and I have already acknowledged that the KJV's “by” means the same as our “through”.And when the scriptures say that Jehovah created ALL THINGS, isn't it understood that Jehovah Himself isn't one of the “ALL THINGS” He created? Of course it is. And when God places ALL THINGS at the feet of Jesus, isn't it understood that God Himself is not included in the “ALL THINGS” that are placed at Jesus' feet? Of course it is.
Why then wouldn't the same common sense be applied to John 1:3? Surely it should be understood that all things, EXCEPT FOR HIMSELF, were created through the Word, right?
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 05 2013,11:17) Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Don't confuse the words God spoke when speaking things into creation with God's spokesman, The Word of God.99% of the time, “word of God” refers simply to words that God spoke, wrote, or thought. Only on rare occasions does that phrase “word of God” refer to an actual, living being. So don't make it refer to a living being ALL THE TIME, Wakeup… or you will become confused.
We both agree that the Word of God in Revelation 19:13 is Jesus Christ, so let's work it back to front.
1. Is Jesus Christ God Himself? Or is he the Son of God like the scriptures teach?
2. If Jesus is the Son of God, like the scriptures teach, then has he ALWAYS BEEN the Son of God, since his creation? Or did he used to be God Almighty Himself, and then became someone OTHER THAN and LESS THAN God Almighty?
You really need to start addressing these bolded parts of my posts, Wakeup. Otherwise, we're just spinning our wheels here.
MikeB.I am not doing this for the sake of
arguing, but for all given the Holy spirit to have accurate knowledge regarding God and his Son.Without the Word was nothing made that was made.
This means that the creature/spokes man was made by the word also. agree?This means that the creature/spokesman,can not be the Word./agree?
wakeup.
No, I disagree, Wakeup.
1. ALL THINGS were created by Jehovah, right? That means Jehovah Himself was created by Jehovah, right?
2. ALL THINGS were placed at the feet of Jesus, right? That means Jehovah Himself was placed at the feet of Jesus, right?
These two are equivalent to the questions you are asking me.
Wakeup, I think I've clearly outlined the way I believe about the Word, and the scriptures that cause me to believe that way. I've also pointed out to you that your understanding insists that Jesus either IS God Most High Himself, or that something that WAS God Most High became someone who was no longer God Most High. I've asked you clear, bolded questions so that you can explain how “God” can become “not God”, or how the Son of God could also be “God Himself”.
You have repeatedly refused to answer these clear and to-the-point questions about your understanding. And my experience is that when someone refuses to answer the important questions, they are either confused about their own doctrine, or their doctrine is unexplainable.
Either way, it is not in my best interests to jump aboard a doctrine that is unscriptural, confusing, and unexplainable.
So either EXPLAIN those things I keep asking about, or give it up. Because I am already content with my understanding – which aligns with every single scripture in the Bible.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2013,02:42) No, I disagree, Wakeup. 1. ALL THINGS were created by Jehovah, right? That means Jehovah Himself was created by Jehovah, right?
2. ALL THINGS were placed at the feet of Jesus, right? That means Jehovah Himself was placed at the feet of Jesus, right?
These two are equivalent to the questions you are asking me.
Wakeup, I think I've clearly outlined the way I believe about the Word, and the scriptures that cause me to believe that way. I've also pointed out to you that your understanding insists that Jesus either IS God Most High Himself, or that something that WAS God Most High became someone who was no longer God Most High. I've asked you clear, bolded questions so that you can explain how “God” can become “not God”, or how the Son of God could also be “God Himself”.
You have repeatedly refused to answer these clear and to-the-point questions about your understanding. And my experience is that when someone refuses to answer the important questions, they are either confused about their own doctrine, or their doctrine is unexplainable.
Either way, it is not in my best interests to jump aboard a doctrine that is unscriptural, confusing, and unexplainable.
So either EXPLAIN those things I keep asking about, or give it up. Because I am already content with my understanding – which aligns with every single scripture in the Bible.
MikeB.John 1:–14 is not about Jehovah,
but about his Word.
*Without Him* was *nothing* made that was made.
So the *spokesman* you say that was created,
mut have been created by Him/the Word.This means that the *spokesman* can not be the Word.
Because the Word *created* the spokesman.If you are happy with what you've got, that's fine with me.
wakeup.
What would make me happy, dear Wakeup, is for you to either ANSWER some of the points I've been making, or just stop talking altogether.
Let's deal with this latest “point” you keep trying to make first:
Psalm 146:6
He is the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them…….Does this psalm teach us that Jehovah made HIMSELF? Or does your common sense tell you that “everything in them” means “everything in them EXCEPT FOR JEHOVAH HIMSELF”? Which one, Wakeup? And PLEASE answer it this time.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2013,11:05) What would make me happy, dear Wakeup, is for you to either ANSWER some of the points I've been making, or just stop talking altogether. Let's deal with this latest “point” you keep trying to make first:
Psalm 146:6
He is the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them…….Does this psalm teach us that Jehovah made HIMSELF? Or does your common sense tell you that “everything in them” means “everything in them EXCEPT FOR JEHOVAH HIMSELF”? Which one, Wakeup? And PLEASE answer it this time.
Jehovah was from everlasting;he is not a cteature.
No one made Jehovah; there is never mentioned of who made Jehovah,for he is not a creature.
He is a being;he was not made.1.Jehovah's Word was in him,from everlasting.
2. He brought forth his own Word from inside him,*out*.
He *did not create* his Word,he just brought it out of himself.
His image was brought forth,next to him.This is where the human mind can not comprehend;how such a thing can be done.All *things* were made through his Word,(all creatures and things).
Meaning; Jehovah thought of creating something,
and His Word spoke, and it is done.
Jehovah thought in his mind the words to say;let us make man in our image;This thought was transfered to his Word;
and his Word/the being; spoke; let *US* make man in our image.Jehovah thought of *saying* something,and his Word spoke.
Jehovah thought of *saying* something and Jesus (the Word made flesh); spoke the words.Jehovah thought of doing something,and Jesus did the work.
For he is the Word of God in the form of the flesh. From a spirit being in heaven to flesh on earth.The Word of God's name is *the Word*.He is not called by a name; untill He became man,and his name is called Jesus.
He went back to heaven as a glorified man/the son of man.
He is the first born of the dead.The first man resurrected.
Sitting next to his Father as from now on *is his Father*.He gave up his first existance,and bacame a resurrected man,with all power and authority as his reward.And all the angels are to worship him.No man can come to God without going through him.A great reward indeed.
Sorry it took all that, to make it clear for all to read.
wakeup.
No problem. You can use as many words as you want to explain yourself. But you're lacking a DIRECT answer to my questions:
Does Psalm 146:6 teach us that Jehovah made HIMSELF? Or does your common sense tell you that the words, “everything in them” mean “everything in them EXCEPT FOR JEHOVAH HIMSELF”?
Which one, please.
I read Wakeups' post about God bringing forth the Word and creation being defined as all that God made through his Word. This is also how I see it too.
We are created because the head of the man is Christ. So woman was created through the man, and the man was created through Christ/Word, and the Word wasn't created but was begotten or brought forth.
However in saying that, the Word became flesh and partook of the creation so to speak. I believe that this is why he is the perfect mediator between God and man. Because he became a man and because he was the Word that was with God.
I think that the spirit is not created because God is spirit and the Father is the father of spirits. It is part of him, thus not created. But all else including bodies are created. Bodies are made and are not part of God in the sense that he is a body of bodies or that he begats bodies. But spirits come from him and spirit is not created.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 08 2013,07:39) I read Wakeups' post about God bringing forth the Word and creation being defined as all that God made through his Word. This is also how I see it too. We are created because the head of the man is Christ. So woman was created through the man, and the man was created through Christ/Word, and the Word wasn't created but was begotten or brought forth.
However in saying that, the Word became flesh and partook of the creation so to speak. I believe that this is why he is the perfect mediator between God and man. Because he became a man and because he was the Word that was with God.
I think that the spirit is not created because God is spirit and the Father is the father of spirits. It is part of him, thus not created. But all else including bodies are created. Bodies are made and are not part of God in the sense that he is a body of bodies or that he begats bodies. But spirits come from him and spirit is not created.
Mt 20:26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—
Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.please try to understand what Paul is saying not what you want ;
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2013,11:07) No problem. You can use as many words as you want to explain yourself. But you're lacking a DIRECT answer to my questions: Does Psalm 146:6 teach us that Jehovah made HIMSELF? Or does your common sense tell you that the words, “everything in them” mean “everything in them EXCEPT FOR JEHOVAH HIMSELF”?
Which one, please.
T8 could clearly see the mystery,But you are to come.Jehovah was not made.(creatures are made).
Jehovah was from everlasting,to everlasting.
Jehovah is the spirit that bounds all creation together.There was *NOT A TIME* when Jehovah was WITHOUT HIS WORD.(dum;speachless).
In the beginning was the *Word of God* inside himself.
Then: the Word was *WITH GOD*next to him.
For he brought forth *out of himself* his Word.
in the *FORM* OF HIS OWN IMAGE.God thinks and his WORD performed.
* US * MEANS MORE THAN ONE.
BUT THE IMAGE IS GOD *HIS WORD*.
THEREFORE GOD IS STILL *ONE*.
Even if God brought forth *MANY* images of himself;
HE IS STILL ONE GOD.Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2013,08:56) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 08 2013,07:39) I read Wakeups' post about God bringing forth the Word and creation being defined as all that God made through his Word. This is also how I see it too. We are created because the head of the man is Christ. So woman was created through the man, and the man was created through Christ/Word, and the Word wasn't created but was begotten or brought forth.
However in saying that, the Word became flesh and partook of the creation so to speak. I believe that this is why he is the perfect mediator between God and man. Because he became a man and because he was the Word that was with God.
I think that the spirit is not created because God is spirit and the Father is the father of spirits. It is part of him, thus not created. But all else including bodies are created. Bodies are made and are not part of God in the sense that he is a body of bodies or that he begats bodies. But spirits come from him and spirit is not created.
Mt 20:26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—
Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.please try to understand what Paul is saying not what you want ;
Do you understand the difference between being the ,greatest ,and being the FirstPaul in Col:1-15-21 is pointing out : that it was pleasing God the father that everything would be FIRST in Christ, starting from the very beginning of creation,all away through the First resurrected from the dead ,this was the final of all things,for Christ to be First in ,in this way their could in no means anyone else that can make that claim in any form,this is what God his father wanted for his Son,the WORD ,to be,
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