A false view of matthew 4:4?

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2013,10:55)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,19:56) And so, do you know just any old regular man who would suffer all that he did so that we could be reconciled to our God? That's the thing, Marty.  YOUR Jesus didn't really sacrifice anything at all.  If Jesus was just a man like the rest of us, destined to someday die anyway, then what did he really “sacrifice”?  20 or 30 years of life as a human?  Children die each and every minute on this planet.  Jesus at least got 33 good years of life, right? So it's more like YOUR Jesus won the greatest lottery of all time.  Answer the following question HONESTLY, Marty: Can you think of ANY Christian in the entire world who would NOT jump at the chance to trade in 24 hours of misery for an eternity of being the second most powerful being in existence, living at the right hand of God Almighty? Because I sure can't.  I would run over my own mother to get to the head of that line. How many disciples suffered even worse deaths than Jesus?  How many OT prophets suffered endlessly until their murders?  How many regular old human beings live with diseases and chronic pain throughout their entire lives?  How many infants suffer endlessly from starvation, and then succumb to it and die – without ever reaching their 5th birthday? Surely you can't think that trading in 30 years as a human being for eternity at God's right hand is really any kind of “sacrifice”, can you? But alas, that IS the “sacrifice” YOUR Jesus offered. MY Jesus left his place in heaven, where he was the firstborn of all the angels, where he never would have had to taste death at all, let alone 33 years of suffering as a being who was much lower than the angels. He gave up eternal life to die.  Your Jesus would have died eventually anyway, so he only gave up a few years.  And many of his followers gave up even more years than he did, and suffered worse than he did. So whose Jesus really sacrificed, Marty?  Mine, who was existing as a powerful spirit being alongside God, but gave all that up to suffer pain, ridicule and death? Or yours, who was bound to die anyway, and chose to trade in 20 or 30 years as a man for eternity at God's right hand? That's why MY Jesus sacrificed.  And YOUR Jesus won the greatest lottery of all time.

Mike, how many of those who have suffered, as you say, have obeyed God without sin even unto the cruel death on the cross?

And he did it not for himself, remember?, he humbled himself and became obedient even unto death on the cross, not for his own glory, but that you and I might be saved.  He had not sinned, and he could just have lived a life and died a natural death, and having obeyed the Law without sin, he would have been saved.

You speak quite boastfully as if you could have just done this so that you would be promoted to that great position at the right hand of God, and even now, as we seek to obey the Word of God as Christians, we cannot do it without sinning, and we could not be saved except for the fact that he obeyed without sin, and lives forever more to make intercession for us when we fall short.  Without the blood that was shed for us, none of us could b saved.

Quote

Isaiah 53 :: King James Version (KJV) Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.   Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Maybe, you should see Mel Gibson's “the Passion of the Christ”.

Quote

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) Galatians 1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)  2 and all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:  3 grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,  4 who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:  5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:  7 which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.  8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.  10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 24 2013,09:05)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2013,07:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 24 2013,02:20) This scipture should be enough to clarify things pertaining The Son.The Word came down and went up again.  Ephesians 4:10   He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) wakeup. Hi Wakeup: I thought that we agreed that the Word is another way of saying “the sayings of God”. You say:  The Word/the Son/Jesus came down and went back up. John 1c states:  “and the Word was God”.  Is Jesus/Word GOD? And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending. Quote Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Love in Christ, Marty Marty. You can take it that way if you want;descend into the grave. But that wont be the truth.Because that does not harmonise with him saying; This is that bread that came down from heaven. This is what your version will look like. **This is that bread that came out of the grave**. Do you prefer this version? God spoke the word/sayings; and they are created. The Word is not just words; but a living being. God brought him forth as a living being. They had good times together creating/making great things. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

I did not write the scripture: it states “descended into the lower parts of the earth”. Does it not?

Does it harmonize with him, Jesus giving his life for our sins having obeyed without sin even unto death on the cross, and having done that, that he is the firstborn again from the dead, and that he ascended into heaven into his current position having been given all power over heaven and earth by God, and is at the right hand of God as head of the church?

And you did not answer the question that I posed to you, and so, I will ask you again.

John 1c states: “and the Word was God”. If Jesus is the Word in John 1, is Jesus/Word God?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Mike:

I want to try to be respectful to all on this website, but what you ask me in the following is a stupid question, and a disgrace to the ministry of our Lord.

Quote

Can you think of ANY Christian in the entire world who would NOT jump at the chance to trade in 24 hours of misery for an eternity of being the second most powerful being in existence, living at the right hand of God Almighty?

Sorry, Mike I have to call it like it is.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,11:17)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:27) What Jesus is speaking about relative to seeing God is seeing Him through the life that he lives……… So why did Jesus and John (and others) all say that no one but Jesus has seen God? Don't Moses, Abraham, Samuel, David, and a slew of others fit the definition you're using?

Actually, Mike, going back and reading the scripture, 1:18, and looking at the various translations, Jesus did not say that he had seen God.  What the scriptures state is more like the NLT has it.

Quote

Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God,[fn] is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

I posted this to show the last part of this statement, but no, of course, I do not agree, with the statement that he, himself is God. 

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2013,07:09)

Mike: I want to try to be respectful to all on this website, but what you ask me in the following is a stupid question, and a disgrace to the ministry of our Lord. Quote Can you think of ANY Christian in the entire world who would NOT jump at the chance to trade in 24 hours of misery for an eternity of being the second most powerful being in existence, living at the right hand of God Almighty? Sorry, Mike I have to call it like it is. Love in Christ, Marty

mary

I have to disagree with you ;i think Mike try to point out that what Christ did WAS NOT AN ACT OF HEROISM,

AND It was not given to just anyone , BUT ONLY ONE BEING COULD DO IT AND SUPPLIED WHAT NEEDED TO BE GIVEN SO IT S SACRIFICE WOULD BE WORTHY FOR THE EXCHANGE FOR MEN LIFES AND THE FORGIVENESS OF THEIR SINS

why do you think is that
no regular born of human parents could never do ;not even if he was a great priest ;

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,18:45)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2013,10:55) Can you think of ANY Christian in the entire world who would NOT jump at the chance to trade in 24 hours of misery for an eternity of being the second most powerful being in existence, living at the right hand of God Almighty? Because I sure can't.  I would run over my own mother to get to the head of that line. Mike, how many of those who have suffered, as you say, have obeyed God without sin…………..

Hi Marty,

I didn't see an actual ANSWER to my bolded question anywhere in your response.  Would you be so kind as to DIRECTLY answer it? Just give me one name of a real Christian you know that would NOT trade a day of torture for eternity at God's right hand. Just one name, Marty.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,19:01)

Hi Wakeup: I did not write the scripture: it states “descended into the lower parts of the earth”. Does it not?

Not in the four translations I just posted for you. What did you think of those translations, Marty?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,19:09)

Mike: I want to try to be respectful to all on this website, but what you ask me in the following is a stupid question, and a disgrace to the ministry of our Lord. Quote Can you think of ANY Christian in the entire world who would NOT jump at the chance to trade in 24 hours of misery for an eternity of being the second most powerful being in existence, living at the right hand of God Almighty?

Why is it “stupid”, Marty?   Is it “stupid” because you KNOW for a fact that ANYONE IN HIS RIGHT MIND would jump at an opportunity like that?

If God said to you today, Marty, although I've allowed you to live a normal human life until this point, in reality, you have been foreordained from before the ages to die for the sins of mankind.  You must surrender yourself to the authorities, who will crucify you.  And on the third day, I will raise you up to my right hand, where you will eternally dwell with the name that is above all other names.

What would YOU tell Jehovah, Marty?  Would you say NO to Him?  Or would you JUMP FOR JOY, knowing that you've just won the greatest lottery of all time? I mean, isn't it the goal of ALL OF US to store up treasures with God in heaven? Wouldn't it be a great treasure to dwell for eternity at God's right hand?

So you can evade my question by calling it stupid if you want to.  But everyone of us on this site knows exactly what you would do in that situation.

And according to you, THAT is what happened to Jesus.

So like I said, YOUR Jesus didn't really sacrifice anything at all.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,19:42)

Actually, Mike, going back and reading the scripture, 1:18, and looking at the various translations, Jesus did not say that he had seen God.

Try John 6:46.

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2013,12:01)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 24 2013,09:05) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2013,07:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 24 2013,02:20) This scipture should be enough to clarify things pertaining The Son.The Word came down and went up again.  Ephesians 4:10   He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) wakeup. Hi Wakeup: I thought that we agreed that the Word is another way of saying “the sayings of God”. You say:  The Word/the Son/Jesus came down and went back up. John 1c states:  “and the Word was God”.  Is Jesus/Word GOD? And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending. Quote Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Love in Christ, Marty Marty. You can take it that way if you want;descend into the grave. But that wont be the truth.Because that does not harmonise with him saying; This is that bread that came down from heaven. This is what your version will look like. **This is that bread that came out of the grave**. Do you prefer this version? God spoke the word/sayings; and they are created. The Word is not just words; but a living being. God brought him forth as a living being. They had good times together creating/making great things. wakeup. Hi Wakeup: I did not write the scripture: it states “descended into the lower parts of the earth”.  Does it not? Does it harmonize with him, Jesus giving his life for our sins having obeyed without sin even unto death on the cross, and having done that, that he is the firstborn again from the dead, and that he ascended into heaven into his current position having been given all power over heaven and earth by God, and is at the right hand of God as head of the church? And you did not answer the question that I posed to you, and so, I will ask you again. John 1c states: “and the Word was God”.  If Jesus is the Word in John 1, is Jesus/Word God? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

1.The Word came down from heaven as a man,
preached the kingdom of God for 3/half years.

2.He was crucified,buried;then resurrected.
Went up to his Father first.Then came to see his friends.
Went down to the angels in prison during the flood.
Then went back up to heaven,sitting next to his Father.

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;/angels that sinned.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime *were disobedient*, when once the longsuffering of God waited **in the days of Noah**, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them *that are dead*, that they might be judged **according to men in the flesh**, but live according to God in the spirit.
THAT ARE DEAD: SPIRITUALLY DEAD ANGELS.
THOSE ANGELS WILL BE JUDGED AS THE FLESH WILL BE JUDGED.

QUOTE:
I thought that we agreed that the Word is another way of saying “the sayings of God”.

I AGREED;THE WORD IS WHAT IS SPOKEN,BUT IT'S MORE THAN THAT. THEY ARE NOT JUST WORDS.
THE WORD IS A *HE* A LIVING WORD,WITH A BODY GIVEN.
THIS IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE.AND WE ARE TO WORSHIP GOD
THROUGH HIM ALONE.YOU BELIEVE *IN JESUS* YOU HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

QUOTE:
You say: The Word/the Son/Jesus came down and went back up.
John 1c states: “and the Word was God”. Is Jesus/Word GOD?

YES; THE WORD WAS GOD,FOR HE IS PART OF GOD.
THE WORD COME OUT OF GOD,AND WAS **WITH** GOD AND WE WORSHIP THE WORD AS WE WORSHIP GOD. AND WE WORSHIP GOD AS WE WORSHIP HIS WORD.
BUT HE IS STILL THE WORD OF GOD,HE CAN NOT OVERRIDE GOD,BUT GOD CAN OVERRIDE HIM.

And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending.

QUOTE:
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)[/size][/b]
UNQUOTE.

ARE YOU CONFUSED BECAUSE OF THAT SCRIPTURE SAYING THAT HE DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH? DID JESUS NOT COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH AND THAN DEEPER STILL INTO THE LOWER PART
OF THE EARTH;TO PREACH TO THE ANGELS IN PRISON?

QUOTE:
I did not write the scripture: it states “descended into the lower parts of the earth”. Does it not?
YES HE DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH. THAT WAS WHEN HE WENT DOWN TO THE ANGELS IN PRISON DURING THE DAYS OF THE FLOOD.
BUT DONT GET CONFUSED: HE ALSO DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH FIRST.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Hi Wakeup,

Instead of writing the word “QUOTE”, and then putting Marty's quote underneath, why not just hit the “Quote” button above your post box?

Hit it once, then copy and paste Marty's words behind it, then hit it a second time after his words.

It will be easier for all of us to follow the discussion that way.  This is how your last post will look if you do it the way I'm suggesting:

Marty.

1.The Word came down from heaven as a man,
preached the kingdom of God for 3/half years.

2.He was crucified,buried;then resurrected.
Went up to his Father first.Then came to see his friends.
Went down to the angels in prison during the flood.
Then went back up to heaven,sitting next to his Father.

1 Peter 3:19   By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;/angels that sinned.

 1 Peter 3:20   Which sometime *were disobedient*, when once the longsuffering of God waited **in the days of Noah**, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6   For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them *that are dead*, that they might be judged **according to men in the flesh**, but live according to God in the spirit.
THAT ARE DEAD: SPIRITUALLY DEAD ANGELS.
THOSE ANGELS WILL BE JUDGED AS THE FLESH WILL BE JUDGED.

Quote

I thought that we agreed that the Word is another way of saying “the sayings of God”.

I AGREED;THE WORD IS WHAT IS SPOKEN,BUT IT'S MORE THAN THAT. THEY ARE NOT JUST WORDS.
THE WORD IS A *HE* A LIVING WORD,WITH A BODY GIVEN.
THIS IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE.AND WE ARE TO WORSHIP GOD
THROUGH HIM ALONE.YOU BELIEVE *IN JESUS* YOU HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

Quote

You say:  The Word/the Son/Jesus came down and went back up. John 1c states:  “and the Word was God”.  Is Jesus/Word GOD?

YES; THE WORD WAS GOD,FOR HE IS PART OF GOD.
THE WORD COME OUT OF GOD,AND WAS **WITH** GOD AND WE WORSHIP THE WORD AS WE WORSHIP GOD. AND WE WORSHIP GOD AS WE WORSHIP HIS WORD.
BUT HE IS STILL THE WORD OF GOD,HE CAN NOT OVERRIDE GOD,BUT GOD CAN OVERRIDE HIM.

And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending.

Quote

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

ARE YOU CONFUSED BECAUSE OF THAT SCRIPTURE SAYING THAT HE DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH? DID JESUS NOT COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH AND THAN DEEPER STILL INTO THE LOWER PART
OF THE EARTH;TO PREACH TO THE ANGELS IN PRISON?

Quote

I did not write the scripture: it states “descended into the lower parts of the earth”.  Does it not?

YES HE DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH. THAT WAS WHEN HE WENT DOWN TO THE ANGELS IN PRISON DURING THE DAYS OF THE FLOOD.
BUT DONT GET CONFUSED: HE ALSO DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH FIRST.

wakeup.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 26 2013,11:42)

Instead of writing the word “QUOTE”, and then putting Marty's quote underneath, why not just hit the “Quote” button above your post box?

Totally agree. I know when I start to read a conversation and then I hit posts with huge quotes in a row, I give up. And to this day, I probably haven't read one post that contains a mandatory huge amount of quotes in quotes.

I am looking for a way to disable the quote button.

[Proclaimer]

Oh I see. You were saying something kinda different Mike.
Still a good time to bring this up because I was reading in this very topic some pages back and gave up because 90% of the page was quotes with a few relevant lines underneath.

[mikeboll64]

Yeah, I hate that too. If you're only addressing the LAST thing the other guy posted, then why keep posting the entire conversation that's gone on for two months?

Only quote the parts of his LAST post to which you want to respond.

In Wakeup's case, he was indeed directly responding to several points Marty made. So the way he did it was good – but hard to distinguish between his words and Marty's. The way I re-did his post was BETTER!

[Proclaimer]

I find opening up 2 browsers or tabs is good. You can copy and paste pertinent parts and quote each one using the Quote Button in the toolbar. The other option which is the one you use I think, is to copy that which you want to directly reply to, then quote the post, and then paste over all the text in the quoted text box.

That way it automatically includes the author of the quote and only the relevant part of the quote.   The answer to the quote then is very easy to follow.

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 26 2013,10:42)

Hi Wakeup, Instead of writing the word “QUOTE”, and then putting Marty's quote underneath, why not just hit the “Quote” button above your post box? Hit it once, then copy and paste Marty's words behind it, then hit it a second time after his words. It will be easier for all of us to follow the discussion that way.  This is how your last post will look if you do it the way I'm suggesting: Marty. 1.The Word came down from heaven as a man, preached the kingdom of God for 3/half years. 2.He was crucified,buried;then resurrected. Went up to his Father first.Then came to see his friends. Went down to the angels in prison during the flood. Then went back up to heaven,sitting next to his Father. 1 Peter 3:19   By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;/angels that sinned.  1 Peter 3:20   Which sometime *were disobedient*, when once the longsuffering of God waited **in the days of Noah**, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1 Peter 4:6   For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them *that are dead*, that they might be judged **according to men in the flesh**, but live according to God in the spirit. THAT ARE DEAD: SPIRITUALLY DEAD ANGELS. THOSE ANGELS WILL BE JUDGED AS THE FLESH WILL BE JUDGED. Quote I thought that we agreed that the Word is another way of saying “the sayings of God”. I AGREED;THE WORD IS WHAT IS SPOKEN,BUT IT'S MORE THAN THAT. THEY ARE NOT JUST WORDS. THE WORD IS A *HE* A LIVING WORD,WITH A BODY GIVEN. THIS IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE.AND WE ARE TO WORSHIP GOD THROUGH HIM ALONE.YOU BELIEVE *IN JESUS* YOU HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. Quote You say:  The Word/the Son/Jesus came down and went back up. John 1c states:  “and the Word was God”.  Is Jesus/Word GOD? YES; THE WORD WAS GOD,FOR HE IS PART OF GOD. THE WORD COME OUT OF GOD,AND WAS **WITH** GOD AND WE WORSHIP THE WORD AS WE WORSHIP GOD. AND WE WORSHIP GOD AS WE WORSHIP HIS WORD. BUT HE IS STILL THE WORD OF GOD,HE CAN NOT OVERRIDE GOD,BUT GOD CAN OVERRIDE HIM. And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending. Quote (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) ARE YOU CONFUSED BECAUSE OF THAT SCRIPTURE SAYING THAT HE DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH? DID JESUS NOT COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH AND THAN DEEPER STILL INTO THE LOWER PART OF THE EARTH;TO PREACH TO THE ANGELS IN PRISON? Quote I did not write the scripture: it states “descended into the lower parts of the earth”.  Does it not? YES HE DESCENDED INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH. THAT WAS WHEN HE WENT DOWN TO THE ANGELS IN PRISON DURING THE DAYS OF THE FLOOD. BUT DONT GET CONFUSED: HE ALSO DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH FIRST. wakeup.

Thank you mike,it looks good.
Need to practise.

wakeup.

[942767]

Hi Wakeup:

John 1c states that the Word was God, and you said that Jesus is the Word in John 1, and so, if Jesus is the Word in John 1c, then what I am asking you is the following question:  Is Jesus God?

I disagree with some of the other statements that you have made in your last post, and I will address these statements at some other time, but now, please give me your answer to the question that I've asked.  Thanks.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 25 2013,10:09)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,18:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2013,10:55) Can you think of ANY Christian in the entire world who would NOT jump at the chance to trade in 24 hours of misery for an eternity of being the second most powerful being in existence, living at the right hand of God Almighty? Because I sure can't.  I would run over my own mother to get to the head of that line. Mike, how many of those who have suffered, as you say, have obeyed God without sin………….. Hi Marty, I didn't see an actual ANSWER to my bolded question anywhere in your response.  Would you be so kind as to DIRECTLY answer it?  Just give me one name of a real Christian you know that would NOT trade a day of torture for eternity at God's right hand.  Just one name, Marty.

Mike, you apparently do not know the extent of what Jesus had to suffer in our behalf.   Through his sufferings, he has paid the judgment for the sins of the whole world.

No, my name is Marty, and I would not want any part of this, but in Jesus case, he did not seek to glorify Himself, but His Father in heaven, and he did this so that we could be reconciled to His Father, and God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2013,12:42)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,11:17) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:27) What Jesus is speaking about relative to seeing God is seeing Him through the life that he lives……… So why did Jesus and John (and others) all say that no one but Jesus has seen God? Don't Moses, Abraham, Samuel, David, and a slew of others fit the definition you're using? Actually, Mike, going back and reading the scripture, 1:18, and looking at the various translations, Jesus did not say that he had seen God.  What the scriptures state is more like the NLT has it. Quote Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God,[fn] is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us. I posted this to show the last part of this statement, but no, of course, I do not agree, with the statement that he, himself is God.  Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Mike:

Actually, although Jesus did not say he had seen God in John 1:18, he does say it here:

Quote

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

But he is not speaking of seeing him with the eye, but about learning of his character, and seeing him in this way.

Quote

verb Root Word (Etymology) Properly, to stare at [cf ὀπτάνομαι (G3700)] Dictionary Aids Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry TDNT Reference: 5:315,706 Outline of Biblical Usage I. to see with the eyes II. to see with the mind, to perceive, know III. to see, i.e. become acquainted with by experience, to experience IV. to see, to look to A. to take heed, beware B. to care for, pay heed to V. I was seen, showed myself, appeared

More than likely, definition III or II or both.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

If you use definition 2, 3, or both, then Jesus can't say he is the ONLY one who has “seen” God.

What about Moses, the man of God who spoke to God on a “face to face” basis?

What about Melchizadek?

What about Elijah, or Enoch?  Or Samuel?  Or David? What about Abraham, the only human God ever called “friend”?

So if we use definition #1 – “to see with the eyes” – then Jesus could say he was the ONLY one to have seen God.

[Author]

Posts