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Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,11:22) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2013,10:01) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 21 2013,09:15) T, I am using Scripture and you are not. Scripture states Jesus was conceived in Mary and I believe it, you do not. It also states he was born in Bethlehem.
Scripture also states he is a human but you choose not to believe it. You want to make him more than human to justify your sins instead of overcoming them.
It clearly states he was made like his brothers in all ways so he can be a faithful high priest. Your words say you do not believe it.
Quote Scripture states Jesus was conceived in Mary and I believe it, you do not. i do accept that he his born from the virgin called Mary ;what i have said does not change that no matter what ;do not twist things ;
Quote you do not this is not true ;
Quote Scripture also states he is a human but you choose not to believe it. scriptures does not say he his human ;because it clearly states that he as no human father ,like all human have ;you never answer those question ;
being “LIKE “DOES NOT MEAN 100 % HOW COULD HE BE ?
HE AS NO HUMAN FATHER LIKE THEM ;SO KEEP INVENTING ,
YOU DO NOT BELIEVE SCRIPTURES PETER CALLED HIM “THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD “WHICH OF HIS BROTHERS AS THAT NAME
TELL ME KERWIN ,TEACH ME WITH SCRIPTURES ………..
YOU SAY YOU USE SCRIPTURES ? WHERE ARE THEY
I WILL SHOW A FLOOD OF SCRIPTURES YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN ,EVEN DENY THE VERY SON OF GOD .
T,I did not say born, I said conceived. You insist Jesus was implanted and not conceived and so you disagree with Scripture.
I am not twisting things as you did by changing conceive to born. I am saying that your doctrine that Jesus is not a human high Priests tries to make Scripture look like a lie because it denies we have a human High Priest, that is made like his brothers so he can be faithful.
Scripture disagrees with you that in order to be human a person has to have a human father. Adam has no human father and yet is human. In this age clones have but one parent and yet are human beings. It is an answer I have been repeating and you choose not to hear much as you refuse to believe Jesus was conceived of Mary as the result of a miracle of God by whom all things are possible.
All of them are called sons of the living God but only Jesus is the chief son of God. That is why the “s” is capitalized in English.
I do use Scriptures when I deem it is a good time to do so but it is your responsibility to test your life and your teachings not mine. My job is to give warning to you while testing my own life and teachings.
Now Hebrews state we have a high priest in heaven that was made like his brothers and Pilate called Jesus a man, John 19:5. We are also told Jesus is the man who mediates between God and the brothers he is made like and that man is Jesus Christ, 1 Timothy 2:5.
KQuote I did not say born, I said conceived. You insist Jesus was implanted and not conceived and so you disagree with Scripture. MT 2:4 Gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born.
it does not say WHERE HE WAS TO BE CONCEIVED DOES IT
MT 11:11 “Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
IT DOES NOT SAY THAT WHICH A WOMEN CONCEIVED WHY IS THAT
LK 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
I DO NOT SEE “CONCEIVED”
JN 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
you like to bring back to the day of creation ;when their was no human ,but that is not possible ;what God as done no men can undo ;the conception process was set by God into men ,and the process included one female and one male to produce one offspring ;it will not matter how good you can twist this it will remain the same ,because that is what God as set to be the way ; JN 3:6 “ That which is born of the flesh is flesh
Quote Scripture disagrees with you that in order to be human a person has to have a human father. Adam has no human father and yet is human. In this age clones have but one parent and yet are human beings. It is an answer I have been repeating and you choose not to hear much as you refuse to believe Jesus was conceived of Mary as the result of a miracle of God by whom all things are possible. scriptures does not retroactively works in your favor ;you can not ignore the billions of human born of a women through the instituted process of God ;
i do agree that the process in which Christ was brought forth was to say the least unusual,and for those reason and many others Christ was from heaven and given flesh through the process of an women ,this is why Christ as said many times over and over THAT HE CAME FROM THE FATHER ,SO ALSO HAVE CONFIRMED PAUL,PETER.JOHN,JOHN THE BAPTIST,
Quote I am using Scripture and you are not. YOU DO NOT USE SCRIPTURES YOU USING WORDS FROM SCRIPTURES AND REJECT ALL OTHER SCRIPTURES;YOU ALSO DENY GOD'S PROCESS TO BRING MEN FORTH IN THIS WORLD ,
Quote All of them are called sons of the living God but only Jesus is the chief son of God. I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THOSE SCRIPTURES AND COULD NOT FIND THEM ,IF YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED,PLEASE QUOTE THOSE SCRIPTURES
IF YOU CANNOT PRODUCE THOSE SCRIPTURES WHY WOULD YOU SAY THEY EXISTED ;
BUT I DO KNOW THAT SCRIPTURES SAYS THAT WE ALL ARE SONS OF GOD ;
BUT I CAN NOT FIND ONE SCRIPTURES THAT SAYS THAT CHRIST BROTHERS ARE ALSO ;THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS OF GOD ,AND SO ARE LIKE CHRIST HIMSELF ;I THINK THAT IN YOUR EFFORT TO MAKE THE THERM “LIKE ” TO FIT ALL ASPECT OF CHRIST ,YOU HAVE BEEN DRIVEN AWAY FROM THE REAL TRUTH OF THE MEANING “TO BE LIKE ” THAT PAUL ONLY REFERS TO CHRIST FLESH ONLY.
I AM STILL WAITING FOR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS
JN 6:41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.”
JN 6:51 “ I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
JN 6:58 “This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”JN 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
JN 6:45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
JN 6:65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”JN 10:32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”
JN 15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
JN 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father.
JN 16:28 “ I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father.”JN 6:46 “ Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
Jn 17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
Jn 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.YOUR INTERPRETATION OF CHRIST HAVING LIVE SEEMS NOT IN LINE WITH WHAT CHRIST REQUESTED FROM HIS FATHER IN JOHN,17;2
SO AGAIN CHRIST HIS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ,THAT GOD SEND DOWN TO BECOME IN THE COVER OF A MAN THROUGH THE VIRGIN MARY ,WHEN HE FINISH THE WORKS REQUIRED BY HIS FATHER ,HE WENT BACK TO HIS FATHER AND SO LEFT ,THE COVER OF A MAN ,THAT AT THAT POINT WAS OF NO USE ANY LONGER.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
THIS SAYS IT ALL ,BUT YOU DO NOT ACCEPTED THAT THE “WORD” HIS CHRIST DO YOU
,
Jn 1:11 He(CHRIST/THE WORD”) came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.BUT THIS ALSO YOU WILL GIVE A NEW INTERPRETATION,FOR YOU CAN NOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT THE SCRIPTURES AS THEY ARE WRITTEN ,ONLY IN THE WAY YOU HAVE DECIDED TO SEE IT ;
AND SO DISAGREE WITH WHAT JOHN THE BAPTIST SAYS ABOUT THE SON OF GOD ;
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”
Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,09:59) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 20 2013,17:31) This is not speaking of seeing him with the eye, human or otherwise, God is invisible.
Matthew 18:10
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.”God is invisible to us, Marty. He is not invisible to spirit beings.
Nor have you any reason to claim that Jesus was not talking about literally SEEING the Father.
We know he wasn't talking about seeing Him in a vision, because he said he was the ONLY one, and we know that Ezekiel, Daniel, and others have seen God in visions.
So what did Jesus mean by saying only he had seen the Father?
Hi Mike:The meaning of the word “invisible”:
Quote Number 517 Transliteration:
aoratos {ah-or'-at-os}
Word Origin:
from 1 (as a negative particle) and 3707
TDNT:
5:368,706
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
invisible 4, invisible things 1
Total: 5
Definition:
1.unseen, or that which can not be seen, e.g. invisible
TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old TestamentThe meaning of the word “behold” in that verse of scripture cannot mean to see with the eye because of the meaning of the word “invisible”.
And so, here is the meaning of the word “behold”.
Quote Number 991 Transliteration:
blepo {blep'-o}
Word Origin:
a primary word
TDNT:
5:315,706
Part of Speech:
verb
Usage in the KJV:
see 90, take heed 12, behold 10, beware 4, look on 4, look 3, beware of 3, misc 9
Total: 135
Definition:
1.to see, discern, of the bodily eye A.with the bodily eye: to be possessed of sight, have the power of seeing
B.perceive by the use of the eyes: to see, look descry
C.to turn the eyes to anything: to look at, look upon, gaze at
D.to perceive by the senses, to feel
E.to discover by use, to know by experience2.metaph. to see with the mind's eye A.to have (the power of) understanding
B.to discern mentally, observe, perceive, discover, understand
C.to turn the thoughts or direct the mind to a thing, to consider, contemplate, to look at, to weigh carefully, examine3.in a geographical sense of places, mountains, buildings, etc. turning towards any quarter, as it were, facing it For Synonyms see entry 5822
TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old Testament(And so, take your pick as to what the word means in that scripture).
What Jesus is speaking about relative to seeing God is seeing Him through the life that he lives, and we have seen Him through the life of Jesus as he obeyed Him even unto death on the cross. “A person is defined by the life that he lives”
Jesus stated that “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
(Seeing Him in this manner is really what matters.)
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:03) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 20 2013,17:46) No, Mike, I have already discussed all of this with you. The Apostle Paul was looking back at the ministry of Jesus while he was here on earth, and so, yes, it is looking back at this, but saying, “who existing in the form of God…” in order to bring his intent to the fore which is to teach the church about humility using attitude of Jesus mind in his ministry as an example for the church to follow.
Okay Marty. You think Paul was talking about us having the mind Jesus had during his ministry on earth. I agree.Do you believe Paul was telling us that Jesus was existing in the form/image of God while he was a human being on earth? Was it at that time that he didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped?
Hi Mike:Yes, I do think that he was talking about Jesus being “in the form of God” during his ministry on earth and describing the attitude of his mind as humble although he was as God's Christ in that state.
That is why the Pharisees accused him of claiming equality with God when he claimed to be “the Son of God”.
But being “in the form of God” does not make him God, but he had the authority from God to forgive sins, for example.
I can give you the scriptures for these statements, if you like.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Wrong Marty! Paul said that He took upon Himself the form of a servant and was “made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man….”Paul was speaking about His incarnation. A child can understand it.
Quote That is why the Pharisees accused him of claiming equality with God when he claimed to be “the Son of God”.
It was John who said that He made himself equal with God.Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:27) What Jesus is speaking about relative to seeing God is seeing Him through the life that he lives………
So why did Jesus and John (and others) all say that no one but Jesus has seen God?Don't Moses, Abraham, Samuel, David, and a slew of others fit the definition you're using?
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 22 2013,17:48) Paul was speaking about His incarnation. A child can understand it.
Unless that child has a strong personal desire for Jesus to never have been anything other than a regular old human being like the rest of us.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,11:17) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:27) What Jesus is speaking about relative to seeing God is seeing Him through the life that he lives………
So why did Jesus and John (and others) all say that no one but Jesus has seen God?Don't Moses, Abraham, Samuel, David, and a slew of others fit the definition you're using?
Mike, none of those mentioned, could make the claim that Jesus made, saying “he who has seen me has seen the Father”. Could they?Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,11:21) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 22 2013,17:48) Paul was speaking about His incarnation. A child can understand it.
Unless that child has a strong personal desire for Jesus to never have been anything other than a regular old human being like the rest of us.
Hi Mike:I can show by the scriptures that he was a human being, but I have never claimed that he was “just a regular human being like the rest of us”. He was a man, but not just any man, “he was “the Christ, the Son of the Living God”.
Quote
Romans 5New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Love in Christ,
MartyAnd so, do you know just any old regular man who would suffer all that he did so that we could be reconciled to our God? Yet, the scriptures, not I by my opinion, state precisely that “he was a man”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ Sep. 23 2013,10:48) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:03) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 20 2013,17:46) No, Mike, I have already discussed all of this with you. The Apostle Paul was looking back at the ministry of Jesus while he was here on earth, and so, yes, it is looking back at this, but saying, “who existing in the form of God…” in order to bring his intent to the fore which is to teach the church about humility using attitude of Jesus mind in his ministry as an example for the church to follow.
Okay Marty. You think Paul was talking about us having the mind Jesus had during his ministry on earth. I agree.Do you believe Paul was telling us that Jesus was existing in the form/image of God while he was a human being on earth? Was it at that time that he didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped?
Hi Mike:Yes, I do think that he was talking about Jesus being “in the form of God” during his ministry on earth and describing the attitude of his mind as humble although he was as God's Christ in that state.
That is why the Pharisees accused him of claiming equality with God when he claimed to be “the Son of God”.
But being “in the form of God” does not make him God, but he had the authority from God to forgive sins, for example.
I can give you the scriptures for these statements, if you like.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Wrong Marty! Paul said that He took upon Himself the form of a servant and was “made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man….”Paul was speaking about His incarnation. A child can understand it.
Quote That is why the Pharisees accused him of claiming equality with God when he claimed to be “the Son of God”.
It was John who said that He made himself equal with God.
Hi Jack:Was the Apostle Paul, then using the mind of Christ prior to his incarnation, as and example of humility to teach the church?
And just, what do you mean, “by his incarnation”?
Quote John 5:16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,[c] because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
Love in Christ,
MartyThis scipture should be enough to clarify things pertaining
The Son.The Word came down and went up again.Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 24 2013,02:20) This scipture should be enough to clarify things pertaining
The Son.The Word came down and went up again.Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:I thought that we agreed that the Word is another way of saying “the sayings of God”.
You say: The Word/the Son/Jesus came down and went back up.
John 1c states: “and the Word was God”. Is Jesus/Word GOD?
And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending.
Quote
Eph 4:9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 24 2013,07:48) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 24 2013,02:20) This scipture should be enough to clarify things pertaining
The Son.The Word came down and went up again.Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:I thought that we agreed that the Word is another way of saying “the sayings of God”.
You say: The Word/the Son/Jesus came down and went back up.
John 1c states: “and the Word was God”. Is Jesus/Word GOD?
And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending.
Quote
Eph 4:9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.You can take it that way if you want;descend into the grave.
But that wont be the truth.Because that does not harmonise with him saying; This is that bread that came down from heaven.This is what your version will look like.
**This is that bread that came out of the grave**.
Do you prefer this version?God spoke the word/sayings; and they are created.
The Word is not just words; but a living being.
God brought him forth as a living being.
They had good times together creating/making great things.wakeup.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,19:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,11:17) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:27) What Jesus is speaking about relative to seeing God is seeing Him through the life that he lives………
So why did Jesus and John (and others) all say that no one but Jesus has seen God?Don't Moses, Abraham, Samuel, David, and a slew of others fit the definition you're using?
Mike, none of those mentioned, could make the claim that Jesus made, saying “he who has seen me has seen the Father”. Could they?
What does that have to do with anything, Marty? We're talking about seeing God – something that human beings cannot do.Yet the human being Jesus said he HAD seen God, right?
So if he was a human when he said he had already seen God, and humans can't see God, then it leaves no choice except that Jesus had seen God BEFORE he was a man. (Perhaps when he was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being?
)Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,19:47) I can show by the scriptures that he was a human being………
Good Marty. So can I. I've never claimed that Jesus wasn't at one point a human being.Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,19:56) And so, do you know just any old regular man who would suffer all that he did so that we could be reconciled to our God?
That's the thing, Marty. YOUR Jesus didn't really sacrifice anything at all. If Jesus was just a man like the rest of us, destined to someday die anyway, then what did he really “sacrifice”? 20 or 30 years of life as a human? Children die each and every minute on this planet. Jesus at least got 33 good years of life, right?So it's more like YOUR Jesus won the greatest lottery of all time. Answer the following question HONESTLY, Marty:
Can you think of ANY Christian in the entire world who would NOT jump at the chance to trade in 24 hours of misery for an eternity of being the second most powerful being in existence, living at the right hand of God Almighty?
Because I sure can't. I would run over my own mother to get to the head of that line.
How many disciples suffered even worse deaths than Jesus? How many OT prophets suffered endlessly until their murders? How many regular old human beings live with diseases and chronic pain throughout their entire lives? How many infants suffer endlessly from starvation, and then succumb to it and die – without ever reaching their 5th birthday?
Surely you can't think that trading in 30 years as a human being for eternity at God's right hand is really any kind of “sacrifice”, can you?
But alas, that IS the “sacrifice” YOUR Jesus offered.
MY Jesus left his place in heaven, where he was the firstborn of all the angels, where he never would have had to taste death at all, let alone 33 years of suffering as a being who was much lower than the angels.
He gave up eternal life to die. Your Jesus would have died eventually anyway, so he only gave up a few years. And many of his followers gave up even more years than he did, and suffered worse than he did.
So whose Jesus really sacrificed, Marty? Mine, who was existing as a powerful spirit being alongside God, but gave all that up to suffer pain, ridicule and death?
Or yours, who was bound to die anyway, and chose to trade in 20 or 30 years as a man for eternity at God's right hand?
That's why MY Jesus sacrificed. And YOUR Jesus won the greatest lottery of all time.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2013,10:30) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,19:47) I can show by the scriptures that he was a human being………
Good Marty. So can I. I've never claimed that Jesus wasn't at one point a human being.
Yes, Mike, we have scripture for that, don't we?Now, please give me scripture that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus existed in some other form of being prior to his being born into this world.
If you don't have scripture to support this, it is speculation.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,14:48) And the scriptures that you stated from Ephesians in context are about descending into the grave, and ascending.
Ephesians 4:9 NET ©
Now what is the meaning of “he ascended,” except that he also descended to the lower regions, namely, the earth?NIV ©
What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?NLT ©
Notice that it says “he ascended.” This means that Christ first came down to the lowly world in which we live.MSG ©
It's true, is it not, that the One who climbed up also climbed down, down to the valley of earth?It's actually yet another scripture where Paul tries to explain that Jesus descended TO earth long before he ascended “to where he was before”.
Of course, you'll have none of that, right Marty?
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 23 2013,16:05) **This is that bread that came out of the grave**.
Do you prefer this version?Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,17:59) Now, please give me scripture that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus existed in some other form of being prior to his being born into this world.
Phil 2:6-8.He existed in the form of God prior to being made in the likeness of a human being.
That scripture says EXACTLY what you are asking me to show you – yet you won't allow yourself to see it.
And there are about 50 other scriptures that support it, but you won't allow yourself to see those teachings either.
Marty, just remember that the one you call your Lord said, I came down from heaven. What if you see me ascend to where I was before?
And then some of those to whom he said those words DID see him ascend to where he was before.
Like Jack said……….. A child could understand this stuff.
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