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It is written:
Matthew 4:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Some believe:
Matthew 4:4
An interpretation of the Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the preexistent Christ.
Is it truth or tradition?
Why?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,00:07) It is written: Matthew 4:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Some believe:
Matthew 4:4
An interpretation of the Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the preexistent Christ.
Is it truth or tradition?
Why?
KMt 4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
Mt 4:2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
Mt 4:3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
Mt 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’’”BY READING THE CONTEXT OF YOUR QUOTED SCRIPTURE ,PLEASE COULD YOU EXPLAIN IT TO ME
AND THEN YOU SHOULD WANDER TO THE ROAD YOU HAVE TAKEN YOUR OWN MIND ,T,
The point addressed by this thread is whether the interpretation that the Word in Matthew 4:4 is the preexistent Christ. Please address that point. Thank you.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,02:34) T, You made an accusation but I would like to know what road you believe my mind has taken?
kmy expression is not a accusation ,it is a request to test your own mind of how a person by not reading the context and take a step back and think on what he read 's ,for making the true meaning conclusion ,
truth is what we looking for i do anyway ,
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,03:04) T, The point addressed by this thread is whether the interpretation that the Word in Matthew 4:4 is the preexistent Christ. Please address that point. Thank you.
ksorry ,but your question would make not make sens if you read the context .
T,
You are correct that interpretation does not make sense in the particular context of the passage that verse is in but when the context is different some believe that the word that men live by is the preexistent Christ.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,05:47) T, You are correct that interpretation does not make sense in the particular context of the passage that verse is in but when the context is different some believe that the word that men live by is the preexistent Christ.
Kthose who believe that are dreamers ,and Me ,mike or t8 never said a thing like that ,I hope you did not had any one of us in your mind when you say that ,
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,05:07) It is written: Matthew 4:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Some believe:
Matthew 4:4
An interpretation of the Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the preexistent Christ.
Is it truth or tradition?
Why?
He said: Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDEDTH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.Hebrews 1 states that in these last days “God has spoken to humanity through His Son”, and so, he, Jesus is the mouth of God, but it is through the Word that God has spoken through him that life is given.
Jesus stated in John 6:
The Words that I speak are spirit and they are life.
And so, no, “the Word” is not a pre-existent Christ.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,05:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,05:47) T, You are correct that interpretation does not make sense in the particular context of the passage that verse is in but when the context is different some believe that the word that men live by is the preexistent Christ.
Kthose who believe that are dreamers ,and Me ,mike or t8 never said a thing like that ,I hope you did not had any one of us in your mind when you say that ,
T,John states that the Word contains life and certain individuals claim that Word is the preexistent Christ. That sounds like claiming that men live on the preexistent Christ.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,07:02) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,05:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,05:47) T, You are correct that interpretation does not make sense in the particular context of the passage that verse is in but when the context is different some believe that the word that men live by is the preexistent Christ.
Kthose who believe that are dreamers ,and Me ,mike or t8 never said a thing like that ,I hope you did not had any one of us in your mind when you say that ,
T,John states that the Word contains life and certain individuals claim that Word is the preexistent Christ. That sounds like claiming that men live on the preexistent Christ.
Kyou have seam not to read what scriptures is saying ;this make me sad to see ,
show me those scriptures and i show you how mis read you are
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,07:07) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,07:02) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,05:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,05:47) T, You are correct that interpretation does not make sense in the particular context of the passage that verse is in but when the context is different some believe that the word that men live by is the preexistent Christ.
Kthose who believe that are dreamers ,and Me ,mike or t8 never said a thing like that ,I hope you did not had any one of us in your mind when you say that ,
T,John states that the Word contains life and certain individuals claim that Word is the preexistent Christ. That sounds like claiming that men live on the preexistent Christ.
Kyou have seam not to read what scriptures is saying ;this make me sad to see ,
show me those scriptures and i show you how mis read you are
T,John 1:4
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,06:07) It is written: Matthew 4:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Some believe:
Matthew 4:4
An interpretation of the Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the preexistent Christ.
Is it truth or tradition?
Why?
First off there is Rhema and the Logos.The logos is within God or an attribute of God just as truth is.
But truth and logos and wisdom while being of God can also exist in others including Christ. In fact I would go as far to say that Christ is the Word of God, Wisdom, and the Truth.Just because there are attributes, that does not mean that there are not others who personify these things of God.
Further, Jesus said he was the Truth did he not, and yet he was not claiming to be an attribute of God. And yes he is the Word of God and the Word was WITH God.
Jesus even changed people's names to reflect what they were to become. Sons of Thunder was one name change if I remember rightly. And we who are saved also get a new name written that no one knows but he who receives the name. I am willing to bet that the names will reflect what part of God's character we reflect the most. Wisdom, Love, Grace, etc.
Tatian wrote this back somewhere around 165 AD.
And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 03 2013,12:04) Tatian wrote this back somewhere around 165 AD. And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.
this is the truth ,and well said ,the truth of God as been around sins the beginning not started at the flesh birth of Christ coming ,but at his creation ,the very first of all creation ,HE HIS THE “IMAGE” OF HIS FATHER ,we are not ,we are only the image of the image of those that were already created beings .
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,11:27) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,07:07) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,07:02) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,05:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,05:47) T, You are correct that interpretation does not make sense in the particular context of the passage that verse is in but when the context is different some believe that the word that men live by is the preexistent Christ.
Kthose who believe that are dreamers ,and Me ,mike or t8 never said a thing like that ,I hope you did not had any one of us in your mind when you say that ,
T,John states that the Word contains life and certain individuals claim that Word is the preexistent Christ. That sounds like claiming that men live on the preexistent Christ.
Kyou have seam not to read what scriptures is saying ;this make me sad to see ,
show me those scriptures and i show you how mis read you are
T,John 1:4
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
kJn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.now ,kerwin, this is a brief context around your “verse” so what do we see and learn
1)that the WORD was with God (being with someone does not make you that one ,if you can not understand this simple application you must learn it )(so that to be true it as to be ;a god)
2) it says that 'HE (THE WORD”)WAS WITH GOD IN THE BEGINNING ) WHAT BEGINNING WAS THAT
VERSE 3 SAYS ;;; Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.,
SEE WHAT IT SAYS IN GENESES 1;Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
SO THIS WAS THE BEGINNING THE VERY FIRST THE “WORD” WAS CREATED ,(NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SIX DAYS OF CREATION OF THE EARTH TRANSFORMATION INTO A LIVING GIVING LIVE PLANET )3) Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.AGAIN ,UNDERSTAND THAT THE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT WRITTEN ABOUT YOU AND ME ,THEY ARE WRITTEN TO US TO GIVE US INSIGHT INTO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE REASONS WHY WE ARE HERE AND WHY AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO TO REGAIN GOD'S FAVORS ,THIS VERSES IN PROVERB JUST PUT THE STAGE OF WHO HIS HE THAT COMES FROM GOD ,WITH THE WISDOM TO GIVE THAT KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH TO BE SAVE ,
THIS VIEW IS REFLECTED BY THE WORDS THAT JOHN SPEAKS IN HIS GOSPEL WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT “THE WORD “IN VERSE 14; AND SAID ;The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
WHEN LATER HE RECORDED THE WORDS SPOKEN BY CHRIST WHEN CHRIST SAYS ;JN 5:47 “But if you do not believe his(MOSES) writings, how will you believe My words?”
JN 6:63 “ It is the Spirit(UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORD OF GOD ) who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit(UNDERSTANDING OF THE MEANING THAT APPLY AND SO NEED ACTIVE ACTION TO IT ) and are life.
THE FOLLOWING IS PART OF THOSE WORDS;;
LK 24:17 And He said to them, “What are these words that you are exchanging with one another as you are walking?” And they stood still, looking sad.
LK 24:44 Now He said to them, “ These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”THIS WERE THE REASONS THAT WOULD PROVE THAT WHAT CHRIST “THE WORD” OF GOD WOULD COME AND DO ,NO MAN BORN FROM MAN OR WOMEN ,COULD DO THAT ,THIS IS WHY CHRIST BIRTH IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER BIRTH ,IT IS TROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD THAT MEN AS ACCESS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH ,AND THAT TRUTH IS ONLY GIVEN TO THOSE WHO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS AND SOUL,IN TRUTH ;
AND IN THIS THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO DO IT ;
MK 12:33 AND TO LOVE HIM(GOD) WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE/'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
MT 6:24 “ No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.
MANY ARE ON HORSE BACK ;NOT COOLED OR NOT HOT = NOT FOR GOD BUT YET NOT AGAINST 100%
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR THOSE LIKE IT IN SCRIPTURES ;IT IS ONLY “ONE WAY OR THE OTHER “
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 03 2013,16:58) The logos is within God or an attribute of God just as truth is.
But truth and logos and wisdom while being of God can also exist in others including Christ. In fact I would go as far to say that Christ is the Word of God, Wisdom, and the Truth.
T8………The Logos was indeed “FROM” GOD it is the Spirit of GOD and the LIFE of GOD, the GOD Who is Spirit. And as the CHRISTOS, it came to be “IN” the Son of MAN “JESUS”.Your problem is you making Jesus the Christos HIMSELF, but that is not the case , The Christos came to be “IN” the man Jesus when he was Baptized in the Jordan river. The word Christos applies to a condition of a Person , by way of a anointing process. This you leave out in your statement about Jesus.
This anointing was the Word of God and was GOD, which Jesus the Son of Man recieved into him, and this anointing was the WORD of God, that became flesh by that very process of indwelling Jesus. It was no different then when God anointed His Prophets with His WORD through a (CHRISTOS) and spoke to us through them. It was God first person Speaking through them all, even in Jesus in the same way.
You can not separate God and his Words no more then you and your words can be separated Brother. If you speak something it is you, becasue your words proceed forth from you HEART, and if i quote them it still is YOUR words NOT MINE> Same with Jesus and the Prophets, they through the CHRISTOS (anointing) Spoke, GOD WORDS, NOT THERE WORDS, Jesus the man was a anointed man, anointed with the Spirit of the living GOD, and that Spirit anointing produced in him GODS WORDS.
Did not Jesus say over and over the words He spoke were NOT HIS WORDS. So how could you say he himself was the WORD, discrediting GOD the FATHER who was the one Speaking to us through the man who came into being through the Loins of King David?
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
The Word “Christ” means “the anointed one”, but then there is the “doctrine of Christ or of the anointed one” which is the Word of God that God spoke to humanity through the anointed one, and the Word that the anointed one obeyed without sin unto death on the cross.
Quote
2Jo 1:6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jo 1:7
¶
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.2Jo 1:8
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Was Tatian a Christian? He gave his interpretation of the scriptures. His opinion.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 03 2013,21:17) The Word “Christ” means “the anointed one”, but then there is the “doctrine of Christ or of the anointed one” which is the Word of God that God spoke to humanity through the anointed one, and the Word that the anointed one obeyed without sin unto death on the cross. Quote
2Jo 1:6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jo 1:7
¶
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.2Jo 1:8
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Was Tatian a Christian? He gave his interpretation of the scriptures. His opinion.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyQuote Was Tatian a Christian? He gave his interpretation of the scriptures. His opinion. did you check what tatian said with scriptures ,or just went strait to his background to see if you can disqualify him as some one of bad reputation ,
this way does not bring truth in any way ;it just prevent you to come to it ;
it is not all that call and say LORD ,LORD, that are the true believers ,the preaching they do can stand on there own wisdom,TRUTH AND SCRIPTURES
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 04 2013,03:54) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 03 2013,21:17) The Word “Christ” means “the anointed one”, but then there is the “doctrine of Christ or of the anointed one” which is the Word of God that God spoke to humanity through the anointed one, and the Word that the anointed one obeyed without sin unto death on the cross. Quote
2Jo 1:6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jo 1:7
¶
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.2Jo 1:8
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Was Tatian a Christian? He gave his interpretation of the scriptures. His opinion.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyQuote Was Tatian a Christian? He gave his interpretation of the scriptures. His opinion. did you check what tatian said with scriptures ,or just went strait to his background to see if you can disqualify him as some one of bad reputation ,
this way does not bring truth in any way ;it just prevent you to come to it ;
it is not all that call and say LORD ,LORD, that are the true believers ,the preaching they do can stand on there own wisdom,TRUTH AND SCRIPTURES
Hi Pierre:Did he use scripture to give his opinion, as I did above, or did he just make a statement?
Love in Christ,
Marty
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