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Quote (bodhitharta @ April 07 2012,15:18) In fact I have said over and over you cannot be a Muslim unless you accept and believe in Christ Jesus so I will certainly be trying to convince anyone to not follow Christ.
Hi BD,Looks like we have what is called 'a freudian slip' here.
יהוה חאלהים (JEHOVAH GOD)
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)Quote (bodhitharta @ April 01 2012,07:24) Quote 1. When Jesus says “I am the way , the truth and the life” isn't he strictly addressing Israel/Jews at that time? The reason I ask is becuase at that time he also said he was only sent to the house of Israel and instructedeven his disciples to not go to the gentiles. My point is what would make the first statement be for everyone for all time and the other with only temporary effect? The answer to your question is found in your reason for asking it.
Let us begin with His disciples statements, who were taught by Jesus, before moving on to something Jesus Himself spoke concerning this subject…these are made after Jesus was resurrected..
Acts 13:45-46
> But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
> Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, it was necessary that the Word of God should FIRST have been spoken to you, but seeing that ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.Even when the disciples preached outside of Israel, just as in Israel, they were first obliged to preach to the Jews in which soever land they were, before then speaking to the Gentiles…and there is a very simple and logical reason for this i will get to later after i ask you some questions…
Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them (Jews) at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet unto repentance.Again, we see that the Jews were first to hear the gospel of Christ.
There is a reason why.But did you note the message?
The gospel must first be preached to the Jews…
so since this gospel must first be given to the Jews, which it was…
And it is plainly stated in many places that after the Jews first hear it, that it then must be preached to the Gentiles.
What does/should that tell you?
It does/should tell you that the same message preached to the Jews is to be preached also to the Gentiles.
So/and since it is the same message to be given to the Gentiles that was given to the Jews first…
Then by reason of logic alone, WHO then do you suppose this statement must also be directed at…
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Same gospel…same message…first to the Jews….then to the Gentiles…
So since it is the same message for all men, then these words too are for all men…Jew and Gentile alike.
So then, your question is answered by scripture and not my interpretation.
The message was for all men, not just the Jews.Again, since it is the same gospel containing the same words directed at first the Jews and then the Gentiles…then it matters not who Christ initially spoke these words to…for these words are for all men…same gospel, same message…same result…just that the Jews got it first.
So then, do you understand why the Jews were commanded to be the first to hear this gospel?
AND
Why didn't Jesus Himself preach in person to the Gentiles but instead was sent only to the Jews at first?
There is an answer, Jesus even touches on it when speaking to a certain woman, do you know the answer Bodhitharta?
Take your time…
Thank you.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 07 2012,15:18)
Thank you Bodhitharta,I can answer to all these things you mentioned…
But first, i would ask we concentrate on the first topic that i answered, i understand that you answered before my post appeared, so you did not know what i would say and thus you posed some more statements of which i can answer but not just yet…
I wish to say that i definitely will address these points you made also…gladly and eagerly…but i think you will agree…one subject at a time is best.
Thank you again.
Hi Devolution, Excellent Post!
Also please remind “Wakeup” that BD is waiting for him
Here <–on a thread in which he(Wakeup) started; OK? <– he may of forgotten about it.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Devolution @ April 07 2012,16:44) bodhitharta,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote 1. When Jesus says “I am the way , the truth and the life” isn't he strictly addressing Israel/Jews at that time? The reason I ask is becuase at that time he also said he was only sent to the house of Israel and instructedeven his disciples to not go to the gentiles. My point is what would make the first statement be for everyone for all time and the other with only temporary effect? The answer to your question is found in your reason for asking it.
Let us begin with His disciples statements, who were taught by Jesus, before moving on to something Jesus Himself spoke concerning this subject…these are made after Jesus was resurrected..
Acts 13:45-46
> But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
> Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, it was necessary that the Word of God should FIRST have been spoken to you, but seeing that ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.Even when the disciples preached outside of Israel, just as in Israel, they were first obliged to preach to the Jews in which soever land they were, before then speaking to the Gentiles…and there is a very simple and logical reason for this i will get to later after i ask you some questions…
Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them (Jews) at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet unto repentance.Again, we see that the Jews were first to hear the gospel of Christ.
There is a reason why.But did you note the message?
The gospel must first be preached to the Jews…
so since this gospel must first be given to the Jews, which it was…
And it is plainly stated in many places that after the Jews first hear it, that it then must be preached to the Gentiles.
What does/should that tell you?
It does/should tell you that the same message preached to the Jews is to be preached also to the Gentiles.
So/and since it is the same message to be given to the Gentiles that was given to the Jews first…
Then by reason of logic alone, WHO then do you suppose this statement must also be directed at…
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Same gospel…same message…first to the Jews….then to the Gentiles…
So since it is the same message for all men, then these words too are for all men…Jew and Gentile alike.
So then, your question is answered by scripture and not my interpretation.
The message was for all men, not just the Jews.Again, since it is the same gospel containing the same words directed at first the Jews and then the Gentiles…then it matters not who Christ initially spoke these words to…for these words are for all men…same gospel, same message…same result…just that the Jews got it first.
So then, do you understand why the Jews were commanded to be the first to hear this gospel?
AND
Why didn't Jesus Himself preach in person to the Gentiles but instead was sent only to the Jews at first?
There is an answer, Jesus even touches on it when speaking to a certain woman, do you know the answer Bodhitharta?
Take your time…
Thank you.
Hre is the thing I agree with your post but it still does not address the question. I understand perfectly that preaching to the gentiles was a natural progression but the answer you are giving me is the same answer of Why Muhammad was sent as it was a natural progression. So if Jesus says “I am the way the truth and the life” at that time wouldn't Moses have been the way at his time? Those who didn't follow Moses at MT Sinia were killed. God told them Moses was the way period and to this day the Jews say Moses is the way and no one goes to God without Moses. So Jesus says exactly who he was sent to and how they must listen to him as he was their Messiah.I am saying that Muhammad was called to do the same thing because at that time Christians weren't preaching rightly about Jesus they had invented the trinity and the divinity of Mary and Christ Jesus and other things and Jews didn't believe or accept Christ at all so it makes perfect sense for God to send a messenger to a People in their own language so they could give up Polytheism/paganism and that's what Muhammad did destroying all the idols and altars of other “gods” . Preaching the revelation of the final messages and clarifying things that have been corrupted in the former messages.
The Quran was written for all mankind and it summarizes the vast compilation of books in the bible that vary in number from 66 to 74 and even more
Hi Everybody,
The 'book of fraud' is reported to have been given by Gabriel, but it was really delivered by satan!
It's vital to understand that the 'book of fraud'(=quran book) teaches against The Gospel's message.Gal.1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there
be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we,
or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have
preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any
man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.2Cor.11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if [Satan's ministers] also be transformed as the
ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 31 2012,14:24) if in fact it was God's will for Jesus to be crucified why then does Jesus say “Father forgive them, they know not what they do” Why would there be a need to be forgiven for fulfilling God's will?
Matthew 26:54
54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”Asana,
Consider the parable of the tenants. I'm sure God wished He could have been able to send His Son, and the renters of the vineyard would have respected that it was His Son and given the Owner His due. I'm sure He wished they would have respected His beloved Son, turned back to the God who sent him, and been healed. But God did not create robots. And like it or not, God's will is NOT done right now on earth. (That's why we pray for the day it will be done on earth as it is in heaven.)
And, knowing in advance how the tenants would treat the Son He sent (the same as the servants He had previously sent), He foretold the events through His prophets many years before those events unfolded.
And, knowing ahead of time how the tenants would treat His Son, He still loved the world so much that He gave His Son anyway.
So the murder of God's Son was not “willed” by God, but willed by evil men who had neither eyes to see nor ears to hear. And while it had to happen the way it did because, from God's point of view, it already HAD happened that way at the time He foretold the events, it doesn't lessen the penalty due to those who killed the Son of God. Therefore the woes and pleas for their forgiveness are in order.
Hi Mike, Good post!
Hebrews 10:28-29 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden
under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he
was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,04:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Mar. 31 2012,14:24) if in fact it was God's will for Jesus to be crucified why then does Jesus say “Father forgive them, they know not what they do” Why would there be a need to be forgiven for fulfilling God's will?
Matthew 26:54
54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”Asana,
Consider the parable of the tenants. I'm sure God wished He could have been able to send His Son, and the renters of the vineyard would have respected that it was His Son and given the Owner His due. I'm sure He wished they would have respected His beloved Son, turned back to the God who sent him, and been healed. But God did not create robots. And like it or not, God's will is NOT done right now on earth. (That's why we pray for the day it will be done on earth as it is in heaven.)
And, knowing in advance how the tenants would treat the Son He sent (the same as the servants He had previously sent), He foretold the events through His prophets many years before those events unfolded.
And, knowing ahead of time how the tenants would treat His Son, He still loved the world so much that He gave His Son anyway.
So the murder of God's Son was not “willed” by God, but willed by evil men who had neither eyes to see nor ears to hear. And while it had to happen the way it did because, from God's point of view, it already HAD happened that way at the time He foretold the events, it doesn't lessen the penalty due to those who killed the Son of God. Therefore the woes and pleas for their forgiveness are in order.
That was a good post Mike so you agree that God did not send Jesus to die for the sins of man but at the same time he knew the heart of the men he was sending Jesus to. WE AGREE! Now we are getting somewhere. (Very excited)bodhitharta,April wrote:[/quote]
Hi BDQuote he fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. [Deuteronomy 24:16]
Correct. Every man accountable for his own sin.Quote In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses believes that, perhaps, he can atone for the sin of the People of Israel, when they made the Golden Calf. He tried to offer himself as an atonement for the sins of the people. When Moses tells Gd to write Moses out of His book, he means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. Gd's response was “No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:”
Yes, Moses did say this, and although his intentions were good for the sake of the people, God did not accept. It was not up to Moses to be that sacrifice to the Hebrews, for the sacrifice is of God's choosing.
The sacrifices to the Lord had to be unblemished. The best. Moses would not fit that description, and that would not fit into God's scheme.
The events of the Old Testament had to be played out and fulfilled before the real sacrifice came.Quote The whole of chapter 18 of the book of Ezekiel is about this idea, that no one can die for someone else's sin. Further, this chapter of Ezekiel teaches us that all we have to do for Gd's forgiveness is to stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd will forgive us. No where in this chapter does Ezekiel claim that we have to have a blood sacrifice in order for us to be forgiven for our sins. (See the essay on this website regarding Blood Sacrifices)
Yes you are correct. No one can die for someone else's sin, but the one chosen, Jesus Christ. Not an ordinary man, but a man without sin, pure and unblemished. For God prepared this sacrifice for himself. This was all part of his plan.Quote So, the Bible is clear, no one can die for the sins of another, and this means that Jesus cannot die for the sins committed by someone else.
If God will's it, then who can argue? Like I said before, this man Jesus Christ was without sin. A perfect sacrifice. God's sacrifice, not ours. This sacrifice of our Lord Jesus is only applicable to those who accept this sacrifice. This invitation has no respect of persons. Anyone and everyone is invited, as long as they accept and repent. The scriptures say that many are called and few chosen. You will find out in the scriptures (NT) that although many claim to be christians, they are not following the Word of God accordingly, and going after strange flesh (different doctrines)Quote The Christian idea of the messiah is that Jesus was the blood sacrifice that saves everyone from his or her sin. But who, exactly, died on that cross? If it was Jesus-the-Gd, then how can Gd die? If it was only Jesus-the-human, then all Christians have in the death of Jesus is a human sacrifice. And what, exactly, does Gd say about human sacrifice in the TaNaCH?
It was not God who died. You are correct, for God cannot die. It was his son, and the scriptures clarify that.Quote In Deuteronomy, Gd calls Human sacrifice something that He hates, and an abomination to Him!:
Yes. This is something we are not allowed to do. God however on the other hand, can sacrifice whoever he likes, and he chose his son. I just want to emphasise, that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, was God's sacrifice, and not mans.Quote Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Eternal thy Gd: for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31]
A good example of what not to do. These people were straying. They were sacrificing to false God's. This was not a commandment of God.Quote And yet we are to then turn around and believe that Gd changed His mind and required human sacrifice, and then it was the sacrifice of His own human son that Gd wanted? After telling the Jews to stay away from pagan practices and pagan beliefs, Gd then changes His mind and says, “Okay, now go ahead and believe in a human sacrifice, just as these very pagans believe?” Everyone is a son or a daughter. Gd tells us that any human sacrifice is an abomination, something He hates, and something so horrible that it would never even come into His mind to demand it of us. And human sacrifice was practiced by the pagans.
I have already explained in my previous answer. I don't want you to think that I'm dodging this question.
Those Jews were instructed specifically to sacrifice certain animals only for the atonement of sin. Those Jews were sacrificing humans to false gods. And no Jew was required to sacrifice a human even to the true God.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 07 2012,02:10) Quote (Ed J @ April 06 2012,15:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 06 2012,12:34) Quote (Ed J @ April 06 2012,11:47) YOU being a muslim, are putting your faith in:
a 'false prophet' and a 'false god'!
No, you just believe that. Just like the Jews who believe the same about Christians.
Both Jews and Christians are united against (islam) the 'kingdom of the antichrist'
EDJews do not believe in Christ and would say that he is a false Prophet:
A MORE COMPLETE EXPLANATION…
You must understand that both Jews and Christians use the word ‘messiah,’ but the meaning of the word is different in each faith. The Christian understanding is that the Messiah, Jesus, died for the sins of the people. The messiah, according to this Christian definition, is supposed to be a human sacrifice that is the blood sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of sin. But we are taught in our Bible that no one can die for the sins of another. In Deuteronomy 24:16 it specifically says this:
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. [Deuteronomy 24:16]
In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses believes that, perhaps, he can atone for the sin of the People of Israel, when they made the Golden Calf. He tried to offer himself as an atonement for the sins of the people. When Moses tells Gd to write Moses out of His book, he means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. Gd's response was “No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:”
And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Eternal; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Eternal, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them Gds of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Eternal said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them. And the Eternal plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made. [ Exodus 32:30-35]
The whole of chapter 18 of the book of Ezekiel is about this idea, that no one can die for someone else's sin. Further, this chapter of Ezekiel teaches us that all we have to do for Gd's forgiveness is to stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd will forgive us. No where in this chapter does Ezekiel claim that we have to have a blood sacrifice in order for us to be forgiven for our sins. (See the essay on this website regarding Blood Sacrifices)
The word of the Eternal came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Eternal Gd, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Eternal Gd: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. [Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27]
So, the Bible is clear, no one can die for the sins of another, and this means that Jesus cannot die for the sins committed by someone else.
The Christian idea of the messiah is that Jesus was the blood sacrifice that saves everyone from his or her sin. But who, exactly, died on that cross? If it was Jesus-the-Gd, then how can Gd die? If it was only Jesus-the-human, then all Christians have in the death of Jesus is a human sacrifice. And what, exactly, does Gd say about human sacrifice in the TaNaCH?
In Deuteronomy, Gd calls Human sacrifice something that He hates, and an abomination to Him!:
Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Eternal thy Gd: for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31]
In Jeremiah, Gd tells us that Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept to Him, that it did not even come into His mind!:
Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it, neither came it into my mind: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Eternal, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter. [Jeremiah 19:4-6]
We see the same thing in Psalm 106 and in Ezekiel 16:
Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, wh
om they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. [Psalm 106:37-38]Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter? [Ezekiel 16:20]
And yet we are to then turn around and believe that Gd changed His mind and required human sacrifice, and then it was the sacrifice of His own human son that Gd wanted? After telling the Jews to stay away from pagan practices and pagan beliefs, Gd then changes His mind and says, “Okay, now go ahead and believe in a human sacrifice, just as these very pagans believe?” Everyone is a son or a daughter. Gd tells us that any human sacrifice is an abomination, something He hates, and something so horrible that it would never even come into His mind to demand it of us. And human sacrifice was practiced by the pagans.
You must understand that the Christian definition to the term, Messiah, is pagan. How do all Christians, define the term messiah? They define it exactly as the pagans understood their dying/saving man/gods and heroes. The ancient world is filled with examples. Mithra, Adonis, Dionysis, Attis, Ra, and many others were born in the Winter, died in the Spring, and came back to life. Along with this, they believed that their followers would not die, but have immortal life, since the death of the hero/god acted as their sacrifice for their sins. The pagan world was filled with gods who were the product of a human mother and a god for the father. Even Hercules had Zeus for a father, and a human mother named Alcmene. Dionysus’s human mother was Semele, and his father was Zeus, and Dionysus was considered a savior god.
When the earliest Christians would come into the synagogues and missionize, they would get kicked out. They were not allowed to stay and preach, they were rejected, because their message was pagan, was recognized as such by the Jews, and they were removed and separated from the Jewish people as a result. This, more than anything else, explains the separation between the early Christians and the Jews, and the separation from the earliest times between Judaism and Christianity.
So how have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term Messiah?
1.
The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said.But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and Gd, rather than two HUMAN parents, as was Hercules, and Dionysus, as well as many other pagan gods.
2.
The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5).But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was Gd.
3.
The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10).But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.
4.
The Messiah cannot trace his lineage through Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30).But according to both Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel.
According to the Jewish definition of the term, the Real Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove because these changes take place in the real world. It is for this task that the real messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah — one who is anointed. These changes, that one will be able to see and perceive in the real world, include:
1.
The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6), which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.2.
The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14). But Jesus had no children.3.
The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)4.
The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.5.
The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.6.
The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of Gd is Gd (Isaiah 11:9). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.7.
The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9). It isn't.8.
The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24). Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.9.
The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28). It hasn't been rebuilt.10.
There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30). People starve to death every day.11.
After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8). People die every day.12.
Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);13.
The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;14.
The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);15.
All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);16.
The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)17.
Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);18.
Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);19.
The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)These Biblically based changes in the world are very real, very perceivable, very noticeable, and knowable. But the changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceivable at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one know that Jesus died for their sins, except by faith? How can one know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, except by the faith in the historical truth of the Christian's New Testament? There is no birth certificate. The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism are very provable, but the changes made by the Messiah, Jesus, according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.
Even Christians recognize that none of these changes that the Real Messiah will make in the real world according to Judaism and derived from the Bible have not happened yet. This is why Christianity invented the idea of a Second Coming. The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things he must do the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.
The Christian definition to the term Messiah also requires on
e to believe that Gd demands a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, and that Jesus was that blood sacrifice. Please see the essay on this website regarding blood sacrifices as a response to this Christian idea.http://whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation3.html
So if Jews are united with Christians you need to think about your own beliefs for you accept the rejectors of Christ and reject the acceptors of Christ that is why Christianity is full of Hypocrites
Hi Bodhitharta.The word messiah simply means deliverer; saviour.The jews are still waiting for their saviour since they refused christ,but the christians accept Christ, and therefore Christ is our messiah.
I can see no problem with that: But there can only be one true messiah,for all.Regarding human sacrifices; I agree with you that we are not to sacrifice humans,therefore God command the israelites to sacrifice,animals,for their sins,even so they have not sacrificed animals that are unblemished, so God did not accept their sacrifices.
Therefore the way to God is closed; but God so loved his creation,that he must open the way, so we can reach God.
Or we are all lost.(doomed).
So God provided his own sacrificial lamb; his only BEGOTTEN SON. This is also to prove to us that he realy loved us first.Bulls and rams can not give us eternal life,but his son Jesus is pure and without blemish,and this sacrifice was accepted by God.Now the way is open. We can not sacrifice humans, but God can.Can you disagree with your God?
It is not easy to give your only son for a sacrifice.No one can receive eternal life by works alone;for all our good works is as dirty raggs to God. We need Christ,for he is the way provided by God.There is no other way.No back door.
Since Jesus is sacrificed; now the way is open for all to come to God,but by his son; the one mediator between God and man, for his son is also the word of God.No one can come to God but through his word. Not the word of mohamad or krishna or some other; but through the word of God.
The bible does look contradictory,even to the christians, if not fully understood. The puzzle must fit in well to get the big picture.
You say human sacrifice is a no no; but muslems do human sacrifices all the time,for their reward is great in heaven,72 virgins.So the sacrifice is not for God, but for them selves.
Every person is responsible for their own sins;yes I agree,but God has taken it up on his son to be sacrificed for all.
Can anyone protest against that?The word made Flesh:
How did God do that?
By commanding the womb to conceive(by his word).
All is created by his word, this person Jesus(the flesh) was also created by his word; a mystery that the majority Christians, also can not grasp.(–no man knoweth who the son is but the father; and who the father is but the son,and he to whom the son will reveal him).(luke 10:22).So there you go, its a great mystery; the Holy spirit needs to be our teacher,not man.
My kind regards to you.
wakeup.
Hello again
Quote You must understand that the Christian definition to the term, Messiah, is pagan. How do all Christians, define the term messiah? They define it exactly as the pagans understood their dying/saving man/gods and heroes. The ancient world is filled with examples. Mithra, Adonis, Dionysis, Attis, Ra, and many others were born in the Winter, died in the Spring, and came back to life. Along with this, they believed that their followers would not die, but have immortal life, since the death of the hero/god acted as their sacrifice for their sins. The pagan world was filled with gods who were the product of a human mother and a god for the father. Even Hercules had Zeus for a father, and a human mother named Alcmene. Dionysus’s human mother was Semele, and his father was Zeus, and Dionysus was considered a savior god. Do you believe that God created heaven, and the earth and all contained in it?
Do you believe that God said “let there be light, and there was light?
Do you believe that God has the power to create, and destroy?
Do you believe that God can command his Word with the breath of his mouth, and his Word will obey?
and Do you believe that God is everlasting, without beginning and without end?
If you believe all this, then you must believe that anything is possible with God.God is everlasting, and he is around forever. That is a long time. God has a kingdom and his kingdom consists of righteousness, truth and power.
God is creating children for himself, so that they can live in this kingdom with him forever.
But God is very choosy, and he will not let evil dwell in his kingdom. So he has to lay down some rules.The old traditions and rituals are gone now, done away, because the Jews back them couldn't even keep it. Because if you were under the Law, you would be judged by the law.
So this old Law, strict and easy to break served as a purpose only for the Jews because God had to make a nation unto himself and this nation had to be separate, and learn what was not acceptable to God. These people were contaminated with the egyptian ways and had to be straightened out. The only way to do it was to be strict with them.
But they rebelled, and now all those sacrifices are an abomination to him and he seeks no pleasure in it, because they have brought his name shame.
So, for their shame, the invitation goes out to the gentiles now, and because he is tired of all those sacrifices, he has designed a way to end it all with one holy, pure sacrifice in it's place. So he prepared himself a sacrifice. This was the man Jesus Christ, his son, born not of the will of man, but the will of God.This man Jesus Christ has the seed of God in him. His DNA, which is the Word of God transformed into the flesh. And because no man can look at the face of God and live, he designed a way for us to know him through his Son, as his son is the exact replica of him regarding his nature. Is this too hard for God to do? To have a son, (not made through sex), and put his spirit in him? for our benefit and for God's pleasure?
God could of just forgiven us if he wanted to, or even destroyed us, but he chose to do it this way right from the beginning. God is connected to us through his Son and feels our struggles. That is why there is mercy. He also understands that there are evil forces that we cannot see in the background and provided a way for us to be free of the enemies clutches.
Jesus, was our perfect example. He taught us not only to love God, but to listen and learn from him,and that his Father loves humbleness, and not pride.Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
1 Peter 5:5 …….Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
So by Jesus' death and resurrection, his name went down in history. If he was not killed and risen then there would of been no amazement and confirmation and record that he was the true Son of God. And his resurrection is an example also of what we will receive if we follow in his steps. Now we can't just say I believe in Christ, and go to church and sing hymns so I will be ok. NO, we have to feed on his Word, which is contained in all the scriptures. And his Word is truth. When we feed on this Word, we gain spiritual food for ourselves, which is knowledge. With knowledge, we can follow the narrow path set out for us, and not go by some other path. The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord. Knowledge teaches us what God likes and does not like. Without the Word, we have no knowledge, and without knowledge we would not know what to repent of. The holy bible is an instruction in righteousness recorded in print, with not only the OT, but the NT also, most important, which sheds the light (Christ). And if we soak all the Word in and digest it, then this Word will be imprinted on our hearts and will go with us everywhere.
And if we receive the Word with meekness and put away pride, having the fear of God because we know he is all powerful and able to destroy us if he wishes, then we will be called sons of God if we follow his word, and will in return receive our reward as promised by the Father which is everlasting life, and being a part of his magnificent kingdom because we love righteousness and love the truth.So no, we do not consider the term Messiah pagan, but most holy,and worthy if the term Messiah is referred to Jesus Christ, our Lord. Their are many so called “Messiah's, but only one true Messiah. We acknowledge that this world is so full of evil, and we need a deliverer for our souls and have hope that there will be justice and a retreat one day, for the sake of the good. In this we hope to be part of God's kingdom, and be worthy enough to be called his children.
We believe God with all meekness, when he says;
Matthew 17:5 …..This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
If Jesus died foryour sins why then will you be judged according to your works?
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 07 2012,15:18) The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses
Exodus 7:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally
Hi Bodhitharta,Whilst i await your reply concerning why Jesus was sent to the Jews first, i would like to address your other post below whilst i wait….
Quote The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent: Yes this is true. It is the Father who is the source of all things. And His Son Jesus did & said everything that His Father told Him to do & say, & He was fully obedient even to the death
Quote O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)Actually, Jesus was much more than just an Apostle when He walked this earth.
He was also:
“that Prophet”, (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 & John 1:20-25 & Acts 3:20-24 & Luke 13:33 & John 1:45 & John 6:14),
“The 2nd Adam”, (1 Corinthians 15:45 – 15:47),
“The Branch”, (Isaiah 11:1 & Jeremiah 33:15 & Zechariah 3:8 & Zechariah 6:12) ,
“The Lamb of God”, (Genesis 3:15 & Isaiah 53:7 & John 1:29 & John 1:36 & Acts 8:32 & 1 Peter 1:19 & Revelation 5:6)
“The High Priest”, (Hebrews 2:17 & Hebrews 3:1 & Hebrews 4:14-15 & Hebrews chapters 5 through to ch10)
“The Prince of Peace”, (Isaiah 9:7 & Zechariah 6:13 & Ephesians 2:14 & 2 Thessalonians 3:16 & Hebrews 7:2 etc)
“The King of Israel”, Luke 19:38 & Matthew 27:11 & Matthew 27:37 etc)
“The Stone that the builders refused”, (Psalm 118:22, Isaiah 8:14 & Isaiah 28:16 & Daniel 2:34 & Zechariah 3:8-10 & Matthew 21:42-44 & Mark 12:10 etc),
“The Testator of the New Covenant”, (Hebrews ch 9)
“The Son of God”, (Many scriptures)
The Word of God, (As you admit also)
Quote It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses Exodus 7:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.If you look closely at what God actually said, it is not the same circumstances nor meaning that is applied to Jesus. God was specific concerning to whom Moses would be god to….to Pharaoh…God was doing the miracles, not Moses. God never ordained Moses as a god, but that Moses would be as god to Pharaoh is what is meant.
Quote Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally
There is One God. Jesus is the Word of God, you do not yet understand the implications of that. Jesus was crowned as God by God, and granted to have life within Himself just as His Father does.
You have your own word, i have my own word, we control our word…it does not control us. God has a word too, and he created all things by His word, but His word is not like our word, for His word is living and obeys His will, and it is from this inexhaustible indwelling word of His from which He made His Son. He could have made a million “pure” sons if He wanted.
And though Jesus is an “individual”, He always obeys His Father, for He is the Word of God, and speaks and acts on behalf of His God/Father as though He were his Father…for He is the Word of God…the express image of God
And God is always in control of His word, just as we are in control of our own word.
And since God is in control of His word which He made into a being…into His Son…
Then there is still but One God…So John 17:3 is upheld.
It is in harmony.
God can make other Gods if He so chooses…
That would not change John 17:3 at all.
Because none of those Gods would be in existence without first being made Gods by God.So then, is there any other God beside God that came into being without God doing it?
NO…
Then there is still but O
ne God then isn't there.This is part of the mystery of the Word.
But only God can make man understand this piece of the puzzle…Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to Me of My Father, and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father, and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him.Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,12:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 07 2012,15:18) The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses
Exodus 7:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally
Hi Bodhitharta,Whilst i await your reply concerning why Jesus was sent to the Jews first, i would like to address your other post below whilst i wait….
Quote The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent: Yes this is true. It is the Father who is the source of all things. And His Son Jesus did & said everything that His Father told Him to do & say, & He was fully obedient even to the death
Quote O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)Actually, Jesus was much more than just an Apostle when He walked this earth.
He was also:
“that Prophet”, (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 & John 1:20-25 & Acts 3:20-24 & Luke 13:33 & John 1:45 & John 6:14),
“The 2nd Adam”, (1 Corinthians 15:45 – 15:47),
“The Branch”, (Isaiah 11:1 & Jeremiah 33:15 & Zechariah 3:8 & Zechariah 6:12) ,
“The Lamb of God”, (Genesis 3:15 & Isaiah 53:7 & John 1:29 & John 1:36 & Acts 8:32 & 1 Peter 1:19 & Revelation 5:6)
“The High Priest”, (Hebrews 2:17 & Hebrews 3:1 & Hebrews 4:14-15 & Hebrews chapters 5 through to ch10)
“The Prince of Peace”, (Isaiah 9:7 & Zechariah 6:13 & Ephesians 2:14 & 2 Thessalonians 3:16 & Hebrews 7:2 etc)
“The King of Israel”, Luke 19:38 & Matthew 27:11 & Matthew 27:37 etc)
“The Stone that the builders refused”, (Psalm 118:22, Isaiah 8:14 & Isaiah 28:16 & Daniel 2:34 & Zechariah 3:8-10 & Matthew 21:42-44 & Mark 12:10 etc),
“The Testator of the New Covenant”, (Hebrews ch 9)
“The Son of God”, (Many scriptures)
The Word of God, (As you admit also)
Quote It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses Exodus 7:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.If you look closely at what God actually said, it is not the same circumstances nor meaning that is applied to Jesus. God was specific concerning to whom Moses would be god to….to Pharaoh…God was doing the miracles, not Moses. God never ordained Moses as a god, but that Moses would be as god to Pharaoh is what is meant.
Quote Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally
There is One God. Jesus is the Word of God, you do not yet understand the implications of that. Jesus was crowned as God by God, and granted to have life within Himself just as His Father does.
You have your own word, i have my own word, we control our word…it does not control us. God has a word too, and he created all things by His word, but His word is not like our word, for His word is living and obeys His will, and it is from this inexhaustible indwelling word of His from which He made His Son. He could have made a million “pure” sons if He wanted.
And though Jesus is an “individual”, He always obeys His Father, for He is the Word of God, and speaks and acts on behalf of His God/Father as though He were his Father…for He is the Word of God…the express image of God
And God is always in control of His word, just as we are in control of our own word.
And since God is in control of His word which He made into a being…into His Son…
Then there is still but One God…So John 17:3 is upheld.
It is in harmony.
God can make other Gods if He so chooses…
That would not change John 17:3 at all.
Because no
ne of those Gods would be in existence without first being made Gods by God.So then, is there any other God beside God that came into being without God doing it?
NO…
Then there is still but One God then isn't there.This is part of the mystery of the Word.
But only God can make man understand this piece of the puzzle…Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to Me of My Father, and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father, and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him.
There are no other gods!Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,Notice the word “NONE”
Also you don't realize that what you read about Jesus being called God was a quote fro a King being called God:
Psalm 45:5-7
King James Version (KJV)
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
So Paul was just quoting this scripture
Hebrews 1:8-9
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
But the Psalmist wasn't talking about Jesus
Psalm 45:7-9
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
8All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
9Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
Most likely this was about Solomon who was also called God's son. Do you not understand that God's “son” is the anointed righteous servant whomever he is?
Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.An apostle is a (religious) messenger and ambassador. This is what Jesus said that he was sent by God
There is ONLY ONE GOD HE IS THE SELF SUFFICIENT ONE
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 09 2012,13:46) Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,12:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 07 2012,15:18) The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses
Exodus 7:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally
Hi Bodhitharta,Whilst i await your reply concerning why Jesus was sent to the Jews first, i would like to address your other post below whilst i wait….
Quote The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent: Yes this is true. It is the Father who is the source of all things. And His Son Jesus did & said everything that His Father told Him to do & say, & He was fully obedient even to the death
Quote O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)Actually, Jesus was much more than just an Apostle when He walked this earth.
He was also:
“that Prophet”, (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 & John 1:20-25 & Acts 3:20-24 & Luke 13:33 & John 1:45 & John 6:14),
“The 2nd Adam”, (1 Corinthians 15:45 – 15:47),
“The Branch”, (Isaiah 11:1 & Jeremiah 33:15 & Zechariah 3:8 & Zechariah 6:12) ,
“The Lamb of God”, (Genesis 3:15 & Isaiah 53:7 & John 1:29 & John 1:36 & Acts 8:32 & 1 Peter 1:19 & Revelation 5:6)
“The High Priest”, (Hebrews 2:17 & Hebrews 3:1 & Hebrews 4:14-15 & Hebrews chapters 5 through to ch10)
“The Prince of Peace”, (Isaiah 9:7 & Zechariah 6:13 & Ephesians 2:14 & 2 Thessalonians 3:16 & Hebrews 7:2 etc)
“The King of Israel”, Luke 19:38 & Matthew 27:11 & Matthew 27:37 etc)
“The Stone that the builders refused”, (Psalm 118:22, Isaiah 8:14 & Isaiah 28:16 & Daniel 2:34 & Zechariah 3:8-10 & Matthew 21:42-44 & Mark 12:10 etc),
“The Testator of the New Covenant”, (Hebrews ch 9)
“The Son of God”, (Many scriptures)
The Word of God, (As you admit also)
Quote It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses Exodus 7:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.If you look closely at what God actually said, it is not the same circumstances nor meaning that is applied to Jesus. God was specific concerning to whom Moses would be god to….to Pharaoh…God was doing the miracles, not Moses. God never ordained Moses as a god, but that Moses would be as god to Pharaoh is what is meant.
Quote Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally
There is One God. Jesus is the Word of God, you do not yet understand the implications of that. Jesus was crowned as God by God, and granted to have life within Himself just as His Father does.
You have your own word, i have my own word, we control our word…it does not control us. God has a word too, and he created all things by His word, but His word is not like our word, for His word is living and obeys His will, and it is from this inexhaustible indwelling word of His from which He made His Son. He could have made a million “pure” sons if He wanted.
And though Jesus is an “individual”, He always obeys His Father, for He is the Word of God, and speaks and acts on behalf of His God/Father as though He were his Father…for He is the Word of God…the express image of God
And God is always in control of His word, just as we are in control of our own word.
And since God is in control of His word which He
made into a being…into His Son…
Then there is still but One God…So John 17:3 is upheld.
It is in harmony.
God can make other Gods if He so chooses…
That would not change John 17:3 at all.
Because none of those Gods would be in existence without first being made Gods by God.So then, is there any other God beside God that came into being without God doing it?
NO…
Then there is still but One God then isn't there.This is part of the mystery of the Word.
But only God can make man understand this piece of the puzzle…Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to Me of My Father, and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father, and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him.
There are no other gods!Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,Notice the word “NONE”
Also you don't realize that what you read about Jesus being called God was a quote fro a King being called God:
Psalm 45:5-7
King James Version (KJV)
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
So Paul was just quoting this scripture
Hebrews 1:8-9
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
But the Psalmist wasn't talking about Jesus
Psalm 45:7-9
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
8All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
9Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
Most likely this was about Solomon who was also called God's son. Do you not understand that God's “son” is the anointed righteous servant whomever he is?
Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.An apostle is a (religious) messenger and ambassador. This is what Jesus said that he was sent by God
There is ONLY ONE GOD HE IS THE SELF SUFFICIENT ONE
Bodhitharta.There are three that bear record in heaven:
The father ;the Word; and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.(One God)(1john5:7).You; and your word; and your spirit; bear record of you.
( one you).(not three yous).You are always in charge of your word,not your word in charge of you. your word alone can not do anything by him self. I say him;because one must respect our own word: And so does God,respect his own word.
I hope this will make it clear.
Hi Bodhitharta, you are –defending a doctrine– that has been given to you by man.
I am not defending any doctrine that has been concocted by man; I go straight to scripture,genuinely seeking the truth,and I let the Holy spirit teach me.
I am defending the truth; for the truth will set one free.
You have a nice day.
wakeup.
This is how you are made in the image of God; You love you hate you,you create, you discuss, you know what is good and what is bad,you make plans,etc.
Animals do not have those qualities.
wakeup.
Quote (journey42 @ April 09 2012,02:24) Hi bodhitharta The only difference is that the christians(gentiles) were not forewarned, or expecting that Messiah prophesied to the Jews, but accepted him and believe he already came, died, rose, and will return. Whereas the Jews are still waiting for him, and rejected Jesus Christ for many reasons.
Hi Journey42, Jesus returned (in spirit form) on “Pentecost! (2 Cor 5:16)“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:
yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,
yet now henceforth know we him no more.”Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Quote Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,Notice the word “NONE”
Also you don't realize that what you read about Jesus being called God was a quote fro a King being called God:
Psalm 45:5-7
King James Version (KJV)
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
So Paul was just quoting this scripture
Hebrews 1:8-9
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
But the Psalmist wasn't talking about Jesus
Psalm 45:7-9
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
8All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
9Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
Most likely this was about Solomon who was also called God's son. Do you not understand that God's “son” is the anointed righteous servant whomever he is?
Luke 10:22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.An apostle is a (religious) messenger and ambassador. This is what Jesus said that he was sent by God
There is ONLY ONE GOD HE IS THE SELF SUFFICIENT ONE
Hi Bodhitharta,
Most likely this is about Solomon?
We can not go by most likely's, we only are permitted to comment on what we are sure of.And Davids psalms are not from David's imaginings alone, these are inspired by God, so it is God who speaks through David, this is how we find prophecies in the scriptures…when God speaks through His
chosen vessels…men do not prophecy by their own power, they either prophecy from God or from evil supernatural force of the Devil…Look at verse 2.
The word through David declares that God has blessed this person for ever.
So David knows this.
Since David knows this, remember when David was old, he counseled Solomon and told him not to stray from the Lord lest bad things come about and Solomon is cast away by God…and not only then, but many times throughout Solomons upbringing…why would David say this if he knew that Solomon would be blessed forever?He said this because he did not know what manner of man Solomon would eventually become…only God knows this.
Yet David knew the outcome for this other individual with all surety…blessed forever!!
So this can not be speaking of a mere man…nor of Solomon.Verse 6
Mans thrones are not for ever and ever.
This cancels out any human king, be it David or Solomon etc.
Don't you know that Solomon had the 10 tribes ripped from his rule by God?
And God Himself says that for Davids sake, after David was dead, that He will have mercy on Solomon, for God knew that Solomon would sin against Him…thus Solomons scepter became a broken scepter in the end, ruling over only two tribes and not 12.
But this other one, has an eternal scepter.
Eternal meaning staying in the same condition forever.
Solomons scepter did not…
Not only that…men die.
Men can not have eternal sceptres.still on verse 6
Only One has an eternal throne.
This identifies the source which leads to the revealing through linked prophecies to whom really is spoken about.
Again, the sceptre is mentioned, the sceptre of his kingdom, a right sceptre, but Solomon, like David did also, sinned against the Lord staining that sceptre.
This other one's sceptre always stays right.
So this can not be about mere a man either.So since His throne is eternal…then this God is a God being spoken of.
Not a man.
Where in scripture does it say kings are titled God by God?
It does not.
It is not allowed by God…Which makes verse 7 clear.
Jesus was appointed God by God.
No other had this privilege nor ever will.
And Jesus was not God when Jesus was a man…but after he was resurrected and changed into a Spirit…this is when He became crowned as God…God Himself crowned Jesus God.
And when He returns, He will return as King to claim His kingdom and subdue the world and bring about peace under His rule…God's Anointed ones are not called sons of God by title.
Your scripture please?
Anointed means put in place by the one anointing.Nevertheless, we are all called sons of God if we obey Him.
But there is only One Son of God.
God is very clear on this.
Angels are also called sons of God.
But these also are not The Son of God.If you wish to use this argument about being sons of God
you have to first believe it Boditharta…
then you need to be honest…
Really really honest and honorable…The Quaran says Allah declares that mankind are not sons of his..that he has no sons…but we are instead all slaves…This is declared in three separate scriptures by Allah and contradicts what the God of the bible says and has said for thousands of years before Islam came into existence.
Do you go against this declaration?
I ask because it is important, i ask not mockingly.
Because if not, then your arguing this case is actually coming from a untruthful place…or a confused place, confused as in you have not made up your mind to believe Allah on this or believe Jehovah.
Which would explain why you do not seem able, or willing to understand the difference between “sons” and “The Son”.
Again i do not mock, but speak my truthful observation.And if you do not agree with Allah's declaration…
Then you have to choose who is right…
God of the bible, or God of the quaran.
It is as simple as that…
For they speak different things.
Any one can see that clearly when looking into it honestly.Also, you have to decide who is more reliable concerning the written word of the new testament…which is all complemented by the old testament.
Those who were there with Jesus and were taught by Him and witnessed Him and were of His countrymen..
He who was spoken about by the old prophets who declared that he would be rejected by the Jews and killed…
Or a man who came 600 years later who never saw Jesus, nor was taught by Him, nor was of his countryman…nor was spoken of by God as saying another prophet would arise…
God said that the scriptures were complete.Or believe that one who came 600 years later who said that scripture was not indeed complete…thus contradicting God and Jesus and the Apostles and the Prophets of old.
Otherwise, our debating is not for the truth of the written word, but an attempt to do otherwise to its credibility for the reason of steering away and into another interpretation of things.
And this angle will never bear fruit and we will just argue perpetually back and forth.
I am not interested in that.So all it comes down to is this…
Choose who you follow…
The word of God or the word of Mohammad.
Then we can truly talk.You can not have both.
Both words are completely opposite of the othe
r.Thank you.
Oh Bodhitharta,
I have asked you several times now, could you please answer…
Why was Jesus when He walked this earth as a man, sent in Person only to the Jews?
Thank you.
Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,22:54)
Hi Bodhitharta,Here is something i once read and liked and agreed with….
Maybe it is something for you to consider…
Or maybe not.Is the Holy Bible the Word of God? All of us need to know. A person’s very salvation can depend upon it.
Numerous books have been written supposedly to prove its validity. Some try to demonstrate it through prophecy, others through doctrine, and still others resort to pure emotionalism. Emotionalism is weak evidence. But while the other factors can help demonstrate the Bible’s credibility, there is one major proof that predominates over all others. It is the witness of Christ himself. If Christ can be proved, that is, if proof can be shown that he was who he said he was, that will go a long way in proving the Bible itself. Let us look at this important proof.
Are the Gospels Truthful?We wish to stress the importance of Christ’s witness in the matter of the Old and New Testament canon. The central proof of the Bible is Christ. How do we know that the Christ of the Gospels is divine—that he is actually the Son of the Living God, and especially that he was resurrected from the dead?
If the Gospels are reliable, then no further proof should be needed. But are the Gospels and their witness true? Frankly, they need to be put to the test. There is nothing irreverent in this at all (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We need to apply to them the same basic rules to which scholars subject all other literature in order to prove its reliability.
There are four major rules for proving the credibility of documents. One, was the writer of the document an eyewitness to the events he records or was he at least a contemporary that lived in the same area of the events? Two, were there other independent witnesses to corroborate the evidence? Three, did those witnesses continue to maintain their testimonies until death—even to the jeopardy of their lives? Four, were there also hostile witnesses who would have reason not to believe the evidence but still say the events occurred? If all of these four factors are in solid evidence, then reliability becomes very acceptable. With the New Testament documents, we have all four evidences in a firm position for credibility.
Let us apply the first rule that the author must have been an eyewitness to the events.
The Gospel of Matthew, for example, was composed not much longer than a generation after the death of Christ, at a time when hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses to the crucifixion and resurrection were still alive. Matthew himself had lived through the events he describes. That is contemporaneity. And it guarantees to us reliable testimony. Let us see why.
Suppose a writer in the Year 1970 wrote that a major prophet less than forty years before had gone throughout New York State, working so many miracles that thousands followed him from place to place; and that in Times Square, on July 4, 1935, when huge crowds of people were present, that same prophet had been executed at the behest of the government and the people of New York.
If such a thing had happened back in 1935, there would still be many thousands of witnesses alive to attest to it.
But on the other hand, if such an event never happened, could any living historian, writer, or journalist invent such a fallacious story, send it to the people of New York City, tell them to depend on its veracity with their lives, and persuade them to believe it? Of course not!
But Matthew did not have to fabricate the life of Christ. According to ancient testimony, he wrote out his account and sent it to the people of Judea—the very people who had witnessed Christ’s activities—within forty years of His crucifixion. If these things really did not happen as Matthew said, then Matthew and the other Gospel writers were leaving themselves open to real and dangerous criticism.
The Jews of Judea, of all peoples, would have known whether thousands had followed Jesus around the country. They knew whether or not the people of Jerusalem had used pressure upon the Roman authorities to crucify Him. Yet many of them—especially those in Jerusalem—came to believe the Christian message. They even became willing to give their lives for its truth. This fact alone is strong critical reason for accepting Matthew’s Gospel as relating substantial truth.
Other TestimoniesThe second rule involves the having of independent witnesses to corroborate the evidence of an author.
The execution of Jesus Christ was not done in a corner with just a few witnesses around to testify to it. On the contrary, Josephus tells us that at least two million people used to gather every year around Jerusalem at the Passover season (the time when Christ’s crucifixion took place) (Wars, 6. 9. 3).
The more people there were to witness the event the more difficult it would become to invent and falsify matters. Christ’s death and his subsequent rejection by his own disciples became a well-known matter. The fact of many witnesses is a substantial safeguard to the veracity of the written records.
Now notice the importance of this. Not only was Matthew’s Gospel written when many thousands who could witness to its truth were still alive, but nearly twenty one other New Testament books were composed before 68 C.E.—within thirty-seven years of Christ’s death. Our World War I ended just over fifty years ago, yet thousands upon thousands of witnesses are still alive to testify to that holocaust. In 68 C.E. there would have been thousands of persons still living who had witnessed those earlier events in Jerusalem at the time of Christ.
Actually, with twenty-one of the New Testament books written within 37 years of Christ’s activities, we can call all these books contemporary records. These documents were written when there were still many witnesses to the events.
The Witness of the ApostlesThe third rule concerns continued belief—even until death. Could any believe that the Gospel writers were consistently lying (a vice which they utterly condemned), yet they were remarkably willing to give up their lives for the “lies” which they were propagating? It might be imagined that one or two might lie (I am speaking humanly), but that every one of the apostles plus hundreds of others were liars is untenable.
It is related in the Gospel of Mark—a Gospel which was inspired by Peter’s preaching—as can be demonstrated—that Peter and all the apostles fled as cowards from the crucifixion scene. They did not remain anywhere in the vicinity of the Jewish and Roman authorities. And while we may doubt that they rejoiced to record their own cowardly display, this defection and flight of Christ’s key men was not a hidden matter. Let us see how their defection becomes an amazing testimony to the truth of Christ’s resurrection three days later.
The Law commanded the whole Jewish nation to celebrate three seasons with great solemnity: Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Almost invariably, the same people who journeyed to Jerusalem at Passover would be back there for the next festival. Therefore, Christ had directed his apostles to wait in Jerusalem until the Feast of Pentecost. One reason was to have the same Passover crowd who earlier had been present at the crucifixion back in Jerusalem fifty days later.
This time, those multitudes were to witness something different. They were no longer to witness a cowardly flight of Christ’s disciples. This time the people in Jerusalem would observe a display of such power and conviction by those once-afraid disciples, that nothing could humanly account for it.
These disciples, who had been terrified of that same crowd just fifty d
ays earlier, now stood in the midst of them, each man witnessing with assurance and dynamic conviction to Christ’s resurrection. None was fearful for his own personal life.The Book of Acts makes this plain. And, should there be someone who would question the reliability of this document, it should be noted that the Book of Acts was written within forty years after the first Pentecost—an event which took place in the midst of thousands of people in Jerusalem. The Book of Acts, in regard to literary criticism, is a contemporary document—written at a time when thousands of witnesses were still alive. There can be no doubt that Luke’s record in Acts is definitely reliable.
What needs to be noticed is the change of attitude in Christ’s apostles in those fifty short days. These men no longer feared the Romans. They no longer feared the Jews. They no longer doubted Christ’s mission, nor the fact of his resurrection. All eleven of the original apostles were consistent in their teaching. Is it possible to believe that they were all lying? The understanding of basic human psychology suffices against our believing that eleven individual men could one after another deceptively tell a crowd they once feared that Christ was now alive from the dead. They were jeopardizing their lives before that crowd by preaching Christ’s resurrection.
The Church BeginsHistorians agree that the Christian church began on that Pentecost Day in the First Century. It is also well known that the Christian message began to be preached not long afterward around the world. The growth of the Christian church gained strong momentum by the end of the First Century. Thousands upon thousands from all nationalities were beginning to accept the central truth of Christianity—the fact of the resurrection of Christ.
This rapid spread of belief in Christ’s resurrection can only be accounted for by the astounding enthusiasm that must have been manifested by the first propagators. Are we to imagine that the Christian message could have grown so quickly if the original witnesses to the resurrection showed no emotion nor real conviction in the matter?
Peter continued to live for at least thirty-five years after the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, and so did many of the other apostles. Could the message have grown without all the apostles’ continued conviction in that resurrection? Of course not. One thing must be admitted if nothing else: the people were convinced that the apostles were convinced.
Paul tells us that not only were the original eleven apostles witnesses that Christ was resurrected, but also over five hundred others saw him as well (1 Corinthians 15:6). Paul put out the challenge to people in 55 C.E. to go to Jerusalem and look up some of those five hundred for themselves. Even after a period for reflection of twenty-four years (in 55 C.E.) there were many in Jerusalem who still believed that Christ rose from the dead. If what Paul wrote was a lie, then he was leaving himself wide open to censure.
The Apostle PaulThe fourth rule for reliability concerns hostile witnesses. Did those who wished not to believe the evidence—even though they were there when it happened—still admit that it was a fact? Paul, among others, was such a witness. What was his belief concerning Christ’s resurrection?
Paul himself figures very prominently in proving the fact of Christ’s resurrection. Since all scholars are prepared to accept at least ten of Paul’s Epistles to be genuine, let us bring him forth as a witness. The rules of literary criticism show him to be reliable, for Paul wrote at a time when many of his statements could easily have been checked for their accuracy and truth.
Now look at Paul. He was a chief, if not the chief, antagonist of the Church in its very beginnings. The High Priest (the top ecclesiastical man in the Judaic nation) had personally given Paul the responsibility for exterminating the Christian church. And Paul went about his task, according to his own words, with fanatic zeal. He could appropriately be called the Adolf Eichmann of his day in his effort to overthrow the Church.
In that first period, before Paul’s conversion, there was no one more convinced of the non-resurrection of Christ than he. No one was more determined to disprove it. Paul also had many of the elders in the Jewish nation behind him. All of them had “theological” arguments against Christ’s resurrection. The practical and logical evidences did not shake their “theological” minds.
At first, Paul was vehemently against the practical evidence. His mind was closed to any acceptance of it. He must have used every intellectual argument to dispute the possibility of the resurrection which thousands of humble, practical-minded Christians were accepting.
Yet, what was the final belief of Paul? This is where he becomes a vital witness to the truth of the resurrection miracle and the divinity of Christ.
Paul, according to his own later testimony, while on the road to Damascus with authority from the High Priest to apprehend Christians, had his mind changed. It was a miracle that did it, but in a single day, this man of lofty intellect came to believe the practical evidence. And when the practical side became evident, his well-trained mind finally came to accept the abundant “intellectual” proofs found in the Old Testament.
From that day forward, Paul never turned back. Until the day he was executed for his beliefs, he steadfastly maintained his faith in Christ and the reality of Christ’s resurrection. Although it took a miracle to open his eyes, Paul finally became its chief exponent and propagator.
With Paul’s uncompromising acceptance, the proof of the resurrection becomes overwhelming. Here was a man who understood Judaic theology thoroughly. And not only was he trained in Judaism, but being born and reared in Tarsus of Asia Minor, the center of Stoic philosophy, he was well acquainted with the classical works of Gentiles. With the world’s knowledge in his mind—and most of it would have been very critical knowledge—he would have been one of the most unlikely persons to accept the resurrection of Christ. Yet he did accept the practical and intellectual proofs of this greatest of miracles.
He became so fervent in this belief that it was said he “turned the world upside down” (Acts 17:6). Everyone who came in contact with Paul was certainly assured that he was convinced of this major proof of Christianity. Because of Paul’s firm conviction and that of the other apostles, the Roman world became convinced of the legitimacy of Christ’s resurrection in a short three hundred years.
Surely, all this provable history demonstrates that the evidence unanimously supports the fact of Christ’s resurrection. No wonder Christ gave the resurrection sign as a major sign to the world that He was the Messiah. This is the one event that is so provable, by all human standards, that it takes little faith to believe it.
What This Means Towards Proving the BibleThe foregoing evidence of Christ’s resurrection proves that Christ must have been representative of a power that we can only call the God of the Universe. He must have been divine. Once forced to that conclusion, we are also constrained, by sheer reason, to accept the validity of Christ’s statements.
Thus, when Christ defined for us that the Old Testament was composed of the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms (Luke 24:44), His definition must be accepted. This is the exact division of the Old Testament that the Jews today accept as their official Scriptures. This means the Book of Esther (which many want to reject today) must be an inspired work because it occurs inside that Tripartite Division sanctioned by Christ. Esther is as inspired as Genesis or Isaiah.
Once Christ has been proved, then Joshua’s long day, the opening of the Red Sea and the creation of man must all be reckoned as having actually occurred. All of these events are in the Old Testament
canon that Christ said was “the Scriptures” in Luke 24:45. All the books of that canon must be acknowledged as truthful once Christ has been proved.Also, the twenty-seven books of the New Testament which witness to the truth of Christ’s resurrection must be acknowledged as containing essential truths.
The evidence of Christ and his divinity is not the only proof of the Bible, but it is the essential part.
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