Home Bible Doctrine Was Jesus begotten or created? Page 2

Was Jesus begotten or created?

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Jesus is the Word of God

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning…

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 

Definition of ‘Created’

“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” 

By this we know the Word was not made as it couldn’t came through him or it if he or it didn’t exist.

Definition of ‘Begotten’

Means fathered. Directly from the Father. Begotten of the Father.

Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee…

Conclusion

Whatever was first had to be begotten in order for all that followed to be created.

Whatever, whoever was first had to come from God’s own nature because there was nothing else but God to be derived from. He is the image of God.

But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 25,945 total)
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  • October 27, 2004 at 2:59 am#4336
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Nate,
    If you go by capitals only John uses the name “LOGOS” in the New Testament-6 times in total in his Gospel, letters and in Rev 19. The word itself is used lots of time in it's common use.

    November 4, 2004 at 8:32 pm#4370
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi nate,
    Peter says about Jesus in 1Peter 1. 20[nasb]
    ” For he was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you”

    ?Speaking of the Logos, the Son of God.

    November 4, 2004 at 11:51 pm#4372
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey nick,

    i'm not sure i understand the relevance, but i agree…

    cheers,

    nate.

    November 5, 2004 at 12:51 am#4373
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi nate,
    Just trawling and came up with a fish. Doesn't sound as if it much use to you. I gather it is just the word “logos” you are interested in rather than the person? I am more interested in the Son of God who became Son of man too. Blessings bro.

    November 5, 2004 at 2:32 am#4374
    Anonymous
    Guest

    oh hey nick,

    certainly i'm interested…

    on a similar theme, doesn't john say in revelations that he was slain from the foundation of the world?

    to me this means that the logos (?the message and the means of salvation) was forknown – that god's plan was always as it is…

    of course, this doesn't sit very well with god's regreting that he had created man… hmm…

    what think you?

    cheers,

    nate.

    November 5, 2004 at 2:50 am#4375
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi nate, Rev 5.6″ And I saw between the throne [with the 4 living creatures] and the elders a Lamb standing ,as if slain..”
    I am not sure if this si the one you mean but it is not quite what you said.
    Did God ever regret creating man? I know in Gen 6 He said
    ” My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he also is flesh” but did He ever say He regretted creating man?

    Eph1 .3f ” Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him . In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself ,according to the kind intention of His will”
    1Peter.”…according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his Blood”

    Yep. He planned it all from the beginning.

    November 5, 2004 at 4:40 am#4376
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey nick,

    Quote

    Rev 5.6″ And I saw between the throne [with the 4 living creatures] and the elders a Lamb standing ,as if slain..”
    I am not sure if this si the one you mean but it is not quite what you said.

    no… rev 13 i think… “slain from the foundation of the earth” kjv.

    as to the other one, genesis says that god repented of creating man…

    i sometimes wonder why he would do it, knowing what would eventuate… but then, i guess that after the resurrection our lives will surpass even what adam had at the beginning… so, perhaps he had a reason after all.

    cheers,

    nate.

    November 5, 2004 at 5:07 am#4377
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi nate,
    My bible says Rev 13.8
    ” the beast will be worshipped by all who did not have their names written at the world's beginning in the book of the living, which belongs to the Lamb who was slain” so the comma makes all the difference.

    I guess we all have regrets, even about our own kids when they drive us to distraction, but it never stops us loving them. Likewise the depth of the regret of God dod not extend to stopping loving us or complete anhillation of mankind.

    God was always on a refining process with man and that continues until the end of time.

    November 5, 2004 at 10:10 am#4378
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Genesis 6:7
    The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.”

    This verse indicates that God was sorry for creating man.

    Also I wonder if God really does know everything in advance.
    If God gives us free-will, then perhaps that is the same as giving us the right to choose, so that he (God) chooses to not have that control. Yes God has a plan that will happen regardless, but we choose where we will end up in it. I suppose that this is not related to this post, but if someone wants to talk about pre-destination, then maybe we can start up a discussion about that.

    Also the Logos to me is like the word 'truth'. You can say I have the truth or what is the truth. But Jesus is the truth personified. So 'truth', 'life', 'way' are adjectives, but are also titles concerning Christ. Logos is treated in the same way.  

    Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelation 19:13
    He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God

    The word Logos is used here and it says that Logos is his name.

    November 5, 2004 at 11:00 am#4379
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.

    Copied from http://www.bju.edu/bible/rev.19.13

    November 6, 2004 at 2:29 am#4395
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey t8,

    very interesting that last post… i think its amply suitable!

    cheers,

    nate.

    November 6, 2004 at 9:37 pm#4412
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelation 19:13
    He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God

    John 1:1-2
    To Nate,

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 He was with God in the beginning.

    So God's plan or expression appears as a 'he' and he was 'with' God and this Logos became flesh and this Logos comes to judge the world in the end of this age.

    So I see the Logos as Christ who pre-existed as an identity with God and God created the universe through him.

    How do you view the Logos?

    November 7, 2004 at 1:37 am#4416
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey t8,

    Quote

    So I see the Logos as Christ who pre-existed as an identity with God and God created the universe through him.

    How do you view the Logos?

    …through a mirror dimly… hehehe… just kidding – i agree with you. moreover, i think that if “in him and through him” the world was created, then in a way we're here to fulfill god's plan or intent (or word), as personified in jesus…

    …though perhaps this interpretation creates too much responsibility… perish the thought that we might be held accountable for every word we speak – whether it furthers this intent, or hinders it… ?? hehehe…

    what think you?

    cheers,

    nate.

    November 7, 2004 at 7:25 am#4424
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yes I agree with that.

    But maybe a bit of glass cleaner might help?

    November 7, 2004 at 7:42 am#4426
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Living Water?

    November 7, 2004 at 7:52 am#4427
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yes, living water and salve for our eyes.

    Revelation 3:18

    November 7, 2004 at 7:03 pm#4433
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi nate,
    As it says in 1 Cor 13 12 “Now we see indistincly as in a mirror.:then we shall see face to face . My knowledge is imperfect now..”

    Jesus did warn in Matt 12 .36 people will be held accountable for unguarded words on judgement day . But that applies to the unsaved only as by them people can be condemned and there is no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus.

    However anyone who has read James 1 and 3 would note that the tongue causes major problems and is our biggest challenge to tame.

    November 7, 2004 at 11:23 pm#4439
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey nick,

    i don't know… do you think that believers won't be judged?

    jesus said with the measure that we judge, we will be judged… doesn't this apply to all people?

    and paul says that we'll be refined, anything that is not of god will be burned… doesn't this kind of indicate an accountability?

    what do you think?

    cheers,

    nate.

    November 7, 2004 at 11:52 pm#4440
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi nate,
    Jn 5.24″ I solemnly assure you that the manw ho hears my word and has faith in Him who sent me possesses eternal life .He does not come under condemnation but has passed from death to life”
    Jn 3.17″ God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him avoids condemnation..”

    The only demand is that we love and forgive and that is why it is part of the daily prayer,the Our Father. “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

    If we stop loving it is because we stop forgiving. If we judge we are also not forgiving. Unforgiveness is not a fruit of the Spirit.Love and hate cannot live together.

    Js3.17″ Wisdom from above ,by contrast, is first of all innocent. It is also peacable, lenient, docile, rich in sympathy and the kindly deeds that are it's fruits, impartial and sincere. The harvest of justice is sown in peace for those who cultivate peace”

    That is why we must not judge as in Mt 7 and Lk 6 and James 5.9

    November 8, 2004 at 1:35 am#4442
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey nick,

    i can appreciate that there is no condemnation for those who follow jesus, but is this the same as no judgement?

    cheers,

    nate.

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