Testing the Trinity

Trinity Painting

 

The Spirit is the Spirit OF God
Yeshua is the son OF God.
So is the Father, the Father OF God?

No, the Father is never referred to as the Father of God, by teachers or in the Bible. That is because there is no doubt among Christians that the Father is God and not OF him. Even Paul stated this when he said, “for us there is one God the Father”. Today’s confession however, goes more like this: “for us there is one God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit”. So why is today’s language describing God different to what we read in scripture? What is going on?

The journey to answer this question and other related questions about the Trinity goes back a few decades for me. God had challenged my belief on the Trinity while I blindly believed and accepted the Trinity Doctrine as a pillar of my faith and assumed that it was the foundation of Christianity. But like most Christians, I had never really check it out. I knew at the time that God wants us to know intimately what we believe in and to test all things and also to watch our doctrine closely so we do not become deceived.

What I discovered about the Trinity

With a conviction in my heart to test the Trinity Doctrine, I embarked on reading scriptures that described God and to test the verses that are used to support the Trinity, but what I found truly challenged my belief in the Trinity. However, when I brought the subject up with other Christians while I was investigating this, there seemed to be this “do not question attitude” and in the end I decided I would just leave it and accept that the Trinity Doctrine was correct even though I felt that I was being untrue to the conviction in my heart. I based this decision on making other Christians feel uncomfortable with me as they assumed I was erring from the faith. In hindsight, I can see my problem was based in the fear of man. Truth should always override what people think.

It was some years later that God made me face my belief in the Trinity again and he kept putting certain scriptures in front of me to provoke me to test this belief. In the end I decided that I would not run away from this anymore, and I did a full study of the subject where God divinely lead me to a new scripture almost one each day. Each scripture in succession built a picture that really helped me to understand what God was conveying to me. While I had and continue to have a clear understanding of what the Trinity Doctrine teaches, the challenge was about seeing whether the Trinity Doctrine was a biblical doctrine.

What I discovered was very interesting and I will condense what I have been shown below.

  1. The Trinity Doctrine is not taught anywhere in scripture, but trinities were common in Paganism. They are rooted in Babylon, prominent in Egypt, still exist in India, and is the foundation of Roman Catholicism.
  2. The beginnings of recognition of this doctrine for Christianity started at the Council of Nicea approximately 325 AD. Hundreds of years after the last book in the Bible was written.
  3. The Council of Nicea was organized by the Roman Emperor Constantine and he had the final say on matters that he had little understanding of. He was also head of the Pagan religions.
  4. During and after the Holy Roman Empire, creed followed creed, and eventually idols were accepted as forms that we can worship God through. Mary was exalted to Mother of God (a title that goes back to Babylon) and worship of the saints was also sanctioned.
  5. The organized church we see today was built on top of these creeds. The creeds were and are the foundation for many of today’s churches/denominations. These denominations are not to be confused with the Body of Christ spoken of in the scripture. Most denominations are still rooted in a Trinitarian creed of some kind. So their foundation is the Trinity which came from Babylon.
  6. The mother of these denominations the Roman Catholic Church murdered approximately 50 million people, had armies which Jesus said his church did not need, and banned access to scripture to Christians. This time is known by the descriptive term, ‘The Dark Ages’.
  7. Some relief came during the Reformation where the teachings and authority of the Catholic Church were challenged. The Reformation restored many truths back to the Body of Christ.
  8. As a result of the Reformation, many new denominations started up, but they too held onto some of the creeds including the Trinity Doctrine.
  9. Babylon means confusion and the foundation of most denominations is the Trinity Doctrine which is confusing to all, even proponents of the doctrine. We are told to come out Babylon the Mystery religion lest we partake in her sins and iniquity. Who is Babylon? She is the mother of all harlots and the kings of the Earth have committed adultery with her. She is the religious system that was rooted in Babylon and she has made the whole world drunk on her wine.

History of the Trinity

From a historical point of view it seems strange to me that one of the pillars of Christianity didn’t come into existence or wasn’t recognized until 300 years after the death of Christ. On this point alone, I think its strange that we are encouraged not to question this doctrine and worse still, the the circumstances in which this doctrine came about should lead any clear thinking person to be at least suspicious.

In addition to that, the fruit of this doctrine appears to be bad. We know that one lie leads to another and history shows us that making Jesus God, opened the door for Mary to become the mother of God. Further, if Mary is the Mother of God, then that opens the door to the worship of other humans or saints.

In Revelation 17 we read about the ‘Mother of Harlots’ or the Great Prostitute who sits on many waters. Many people have speculated on her identity. Some say it is New York or the USA, others say it is Rome. If you are not familiar with this section of scripture, then it would pay to read it now before reading on.

Lets imagine for a minute that it is Rome as Rome is after all known to this day as the city of 7 hills. Now Constantine the Roman Emperor who dictated to the church so called truth becomes the original model of the person we call the Pope today. The Pope sits on a throne with supreme authority to dictate so called truth to the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church admits by it’s very name that it’s roots are in Rome and many of the traditions she adheres to come from Pagan traditions and festivals and were re-branded as Christian back in the days of Emperor Constantine. In one sense we can see that these creeds led to the worship of idols and men and changed the truth of God to a lie. But in order for these man-made creeds and lies to be administered and managed, there needed to exist some kind of organization of man to manage the politics of enforcing such creeds. The organizations are of course the organized churches of which the Catholic church is perhaps the mother which would make the smaller denominations the harlots or daughters of the harlot. The term ‘Mother of Harlots’ of course leads us to wonder who the daughters or offspring are. We also read that the kings of the earth have committed adultery with this harlot and we all know that many world leaders befriend the organized church so they can leverage her influence for their own political agendas and to gain votes. There will however come a time when God will call his children out of her because he will judge her quickly.

Babel, Babylon, Egypt, and Rome all have one thing in common. Their motives were to become great and make a name themselves. They also built structures as a way of showing their greatness and prowess. But the spirit of Babylon, Egypt, and Rome also enslave the children of God and also hated them to the point of death. In Rev 17 we read that the woman was drunk on the blood of the saints and is guilty of all the martyrs. History also records the dreadful killings of Christians by Rome and the enslavement of Israel by Egypt, but how many people are aware that the Catholic Church is also responsible for burning to death millions of people including Christians. They were killed as ‘heretics’ for things like reading scripture, translating scripture, or daring to obey the scriptures instead of their traditions.

Many denominations today still operate under this spirit of control including the persecution of those who question doctrines like the Trinity. Try questioning this doctrine in any denomination that is built on this creed, and watch the horror on people’s faces and the warnings that will proceed thereafter.

We know from scripture that the curse of Babel was division. The Babylonians built a tower in their name and God divided their language to weaken them, lest they succeed in all kinds of wickedness. But this spirit also exists in the organised churches. Each Denomination has its own creed, its own leaders and own customs or tradition, and they are all about making a name for themselves. They build towers in their name and in times past the steeples on these structure were the tallest structures in their communities. Now can you see that denominations are really just the divided languages of Christianity, just the same as divisions caused by multiple natural languages resulting from Babel. And the reason for this division is not what many think, it is so they cannot together succeed at works of iniquity and while in this divisive state, they cannot accomplish anything their hearts desire. True unity is extremely important and something that God will bring about and is already doing. But unity in the love and truth of God is paramount, not unity in making a name for themselves. People are misguided when they think that it would be a good thing if all the denominations united under one banner. What is better it people uniting in the truth because of their love of God and all things that are of him.

Denominations and their Trinity foundation

But doesn’t God use denominations to spread his gospel?. The quick answer to this is God uses men to do his work. If these men are part of a denomination or not, God uses the man, not the building and not the system. If you look into this you will likely find that the system actually hinders men in being led the the Spirit of God and the system itself takes up much resources to run, when instead such resources could help the poor and needy.

Many are being used by God for his purposes and this has been true since the birth of the Church. In times of great ignorance, it appears that God does compromise for our benefit. He works with what he can and we often limit God. But God is constantly trying to give us access to his limitless resources. In this age of denominations, it is hard to accept that there really is only one church built on the foundation of Christ and the Apostles. The only divisions are actually geographical divisions. The 7 churches in Revelation for example aren’t 7 separate churches, but 7 cities in which the Church resides. For example, in the Book of Revelation where it says: “to the Church in Laodecia”, it is saying to the Body of Christ in that particular city. We need to open our eyes in order to see the real Church. When you can really see the Body of Christ, you will never again say, I am going to church, because you will realize that we are the Church regardless of your location. This explains why we also read in 1 Corinthians 16:19: “The churches of Asia send greetings to you. Aquila and Prisca greet you warmly in the Lord, with the church that meets in their house.”. So this simply means the part of the Church that meets in that house. It was not a denomination like we see today.

Most denominations today have a Statement of Faith as their foundation and these are usually based on creeds formed centuries ago, but centuries after the Bible was first penned. Often Christians are invited or required to take out membership and that often requires an acceptance of a particular Statement of Faith. This sort of thing is common, yet it is unscriptural and deceives people into thinking that the denomination is the Church. They also think that once they have membership they belong to the Church. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Anyone can agree to a Statement of Faith or a Creed, even a mass murderer could do that. True Believers believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord, the Son of God, and the Messiah. The true Church is made up of God’s children and He dwells in them via his Spirit. Denominations on the other hand can contain true believers, but they can also contain non-believers, criminals, and unrepentant sinners. All true believers should use scripture and the Word of God as our Statement of Faith and we should realize that there is only One Church called the Body of Christ. The head of the true Church is Jesus Christ himself, not a Pope, Archbishop, or a president. We would do well to keep away from the words, wisdom and traditions of men.

The truth about God and who he is

Now the Trinity Doctrine says that God is made up of three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But the truth is that the Father is the only true God. So who is the son? Easy. He is the son of this God.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The above scripture is not to be taken lightly. Do not pass over it until you have grasped it. After all, it is eternal life and isn’t that the point of having faith in God?

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Clearly, the God and Father of all is the Father and not Jesus. Jesus is the Lord according to the above scripture.

Instead of using the Trinity to describe the God and his relationship with his Son. how about use Jesus own words. Are not his words better than some creed that came from man? John 15:1-2
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

This scripture shows the same 3 levels that we see in the scripture below. Note: The word head means authority, head or source.

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The true doctrine & foundation

The scriptures show us that we believers are united in doctrine by believing the following:

  • God exists and rewards those that seek him.
  • We must repent of our sins and turn to God and serve him.
  • Jesus is the only way to God and we should be baptized into his name.
  • Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
  • Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the dead to the highest position (throne), that he may present us to God, holy and sanctified.
  • Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church.
  • The Spirit of God leads us and teaches us all things.
  • That Jesus will return to earth and all the earthly kingdoms will fall. The Kingdom of God will come to earth.
I can have true unity of purpose with anyone that believes these points. The Trinity should never be pushed or taught as a doctrine, but today it is taught not only as a doctrine, but a foundational doctrine. However the Trinity Doctrine as a foundation is actually another foundation. Another foundation is not the same as the true foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now Matthew 16:13-18 has a key for us.
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

Jesus commends Peter when he declares that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Now Peter never said that Jesus was God at that opportune moment, but I am sure that many Christians given the same question today would say that he is God, yet that answer is different to the one Peter was commended for. Jesus actually built his Church on this truth, so it is obvious from this alone that the Trinity Doctrine is not the foundation of Jesus Church.

Now it is easy to show scriptures that show the Father to be God and there also appear to be a few scriptures that say that Jesus is God (Elohim, Theos). Most of the time Jesus is referred to as the Son of God. Even the Devil and demons called him the Son of God. See Matthew 8:29 & Matthew 4:3-6

But a lot of people also ignore the fact that we humans are also called Gods. John 10:34 uses the word “theos” to describe Man.
Psalms 82:6 uses the word “Elohim” to describe Man.

The word God is also used for Idols and Satan.
Exodus 20:23 uses the word “elohim” to describe Idols.
2 Corinthians 4:4 uses the word “theos” of this world to describe Satan.

But it must be made clear that ‘Elohim’ and ‘Theos’ are not names of God, they are titles in the same way Master is a title. When we see the word God, it is important to read the adjectives to see what kind of God is being referred to. E.g. the Most High God (the Father) is different to the God of this age (Satan).

Now there are many gods as I have pointed out, but the Father is the Most High God. See 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 which says
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Also remember that Jesus calls us brethren/brothers. But to the Father we are his children or offspring.

Now Psalm 2:7 says
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

So the name of the Most High God is (YHWH) which is referred to by scholars as Yahweh. So Yahweh (God) is the Father of Jesus. So it is clear that Jesus is not Yahweh. He is Yahweh’s Son. Now Jesus in Hebrew is Yashua and he is never referred to as Yahweh. Yashua means “Yahweh saves” or “Yahweh is salvation”. So God’s name is in his son’s name. (Yah)

Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this reason I kneel before the Father,
15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name.

Just like Trinitarians today, the Jews thought that Jesus was claiming to be God, but Jesus defended this accusation with the following words in John 10:34-36
34 “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

So the Jews accused Jesus of saying he was God and instead of agreeing and saying something like “Yes I am God” Jesus defended himself with the statement “You are Gods (theos) and then he stresses that he was claiming to be the Son of God.” Many Christians still make the same mistake today. Read John 10:27-36 to read the above words of Jesus in context. In that context, Jesus even said to the Jews that the Father was greater than himself.

Who and what is Jesus

So who is Jesus. The following Statements are from the scriptures, and should be the words that we trust in in order to understand who Jesus really is.

  • God has spoken to us through the Prophets and now his Son.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • The Son is the exact brightness of God’s glory.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is the image of the invisible God.
    See Colossians 1:12-16
  • God sustains all things by his Word (Jesus is the Word of God).
    See Hebrews 1:1-6 & John 1:1
  • He is seated at the right hand of God.
    See Colossians 3:1-3
  • He inherited a name more superior to the Angels.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is worthy to be worshipped by Angels.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • God became a Father when he begat his son “You are my Son, today I have become your Father”.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is the Firstborn from the Dead.
    See Revelation 1:4-6
  • Jesus has first place in everything.
    See Colossians 1:18
  • Jesus is head over the Church.
    See Ephesians 1:22
  • He is Gods firstborn.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • Jesus is the Ruler or Beginning of the Creation of God.
    See Revelation 3:14
  • Jesus is begotten, not created.
    See John 1:3
The last scripture above, shows us that Jesus was not created. Many other scriptures show us that Jesus is begotten (born). See John 1:18 & John 3:18

Jesus is truly the only begotten Son of God. Yes we too are the Sons of God, but we were begotten from God through his Word (Christ). All creation was made this way. But Jesus was begotten directly from God and he is the exact image of God. And we (the church) are the image of Christ. Again I point out the importance of 1Corinthians 11:3 and Colossians 2:8-10 which says,
in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

Here we can see clearly that Christ is the fullness of God and we the Church are the fullness of Christ. So consider this, if we use this scripture to say that Jesus is God, then in all fairness we have to conclude that we are Christ. This is of course a misinterpretation of scripture. The truth is that Jesus has the divine nature and God also wants us to share that nature too. So just as the Deity is in Christ, Christ is in us.

To be divine and to be the Divine is two different things. One identifies a nature and the other identifies a person. God is the Divine and he shares his nature with his sons who are part of his family. Christ has divine nature as the Son is like his Father. But did you know hat we can also partake of the divine nature and still not be God? And if you understand that, then it must be that if Jesus has divine nature, then that also does not make him God.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Moving on, Matthew 24:36 shows us clearly that the Son doesn’t know everything, yet God is all knowing.
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. My confession is that Jesus Christ is Lord and I believe that all will confess this one day. And I also believe that God is Spirit and Invisible and that he resides inside and outside of his creation. See 2 Chronicles 2:6. Similar to physical light, it is invisible except that it reveals all things. Now when light strikes a prism it reflects all the colours and this is like Christ. He reveals and reflects God who is light. Jesus reveals the Invisible Spirit who dwells in him. Jesus has a body and the glory of God is visible to us in Christ. There is no other way for us to se God or to know God or to fellowship with God. Jesus is the only Mediator between Man and God.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Jesus is the Image of God and he is seated on the Fathers throne above creation and Jesus seats us on his throne.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. Jesus calls his Father, God and he says that his God is also our God. See John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ” & Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Also in John 8:28 we read the following:
Jesus said “I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me”

Now 1 Corinthians 15:27 shows us clearly that Jesus is not God.
27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When the Most High God is being referred to, it is always talking about the Father.

John 3:16 says
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Conclusion

To sum up: 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 embodies what I am saying.
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

The Trinity makes and idol out of God. Its no different to making a graven image from your hands as it is to make God into a form in your mind or using a diagram to depict him. It is the nature of Man to do this. The Trinity and Nicene Creed is the founding document to the man made organized religion that has suppressed and kept in fear many of Gods people. Upon that creed many heresies followed. If its origin is man then its fruit will be death, control and fear and history has revealed the fruit of this doctrine. God is a person and the Trinity Doctrine says that God is a class/family. We know that there are many gods, so the word ‘god’ can be used in the sense of class, but there is only one God the person otherwise there would be more than 1 God. I and many others including the Jews believe that God is a person, not an organization. Perhaps God is calling us out of Egypt and her gods. This is where the Trinity Doctrine came from and the Egyptians already worshipped a Trinity before the gospel reached them. All they did was replace the names. But the concept remains the same. A Christian appearance but a pagan heart. Two more scriptures before I finish.

Proverbs 8:22-30 Talks about someone who was brought forth by God, yet existed before creation and witnessed God creating the Cosmos.
Matthew 3:17 says “And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased” So WHO is Jesus? He is the Christ, the Son of God, the Word of God, the Image of God and the Wisdom of God. He is of God and shares his nature, but he is not that God in identity. The true God is his Father and our Father.

For a more in depth look at this subject, see the writing The Trinity Doctrine.

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  • #795681
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Carmel, give me one verse where God is mentioned. Any verse.

    #795706
    carmel
    Participant

     

    GOD, followed by a comma SO THE STRESS IS ONLY ON the title of GOD, and also separated from the title of FATHER in order to make us aware that he was not referring to just one TITLE only ALMIGHTY GOD, but to another particular GOD TITLE!

    t8,

    What I posted ABOVE, it clearly says:

    to make us aware that he was not referring
    to just one TITLE only ALMIGHTY GOD,

    but to another particular GOD NEW  GLORIFIED TITLE!

    AS JESUS CHRIST , GOD ,THE FATHER!  OF THE NEW WORLD!!!  ISAIAH 9:6

    GOD ALMIGHTY WAS NEVER A FATHER TO THE GENTILES!

    HE WAS SO ONLY TO THE JEWS!

    GOD ALMIGHTY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE JEWS,  WAS ONLY FATHER OF SONS, UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME JESUS DIED!

    THE FACT THAT HE SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON! HE NEVER HAD DAUGHTERS!

    SO HE COULD NEVER BE FATHER OF CHILDREN!

     

    FROM JESUS’ DEATH ONWARDS GOD ALMIGHTY BECAME THE FATHER OF ALL CREATION ONLY IN and BY

    JESUS CHRIST  

    HE CREATED ANEW ALL THROUGH HIS OWN BLOOD, AND BECAME FATHER OF IT!

    HE PERFECTED ALL FOR THE FATHER!

    YOU SIMPLY WON’T ACCEPT THAT

    GOD ALMIGHTY IS WELL PLEASED TO BE ONLY RECOGNIZED ON EARTH THROUGH THE NEW TITLE OF

    JESUS CHRIST

    AS A CONFIRMATION THAT HE GLORIFIED! HE ENRICHED HIMSELF!

    THE FACT THAT WHEN HE COMES AGAIN HE COMES IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER! TO JUDGE ALL!

    GOD ALMIGHTY WON’T JUDGE SINCE HE IS NOT RECOGNIZED ON EARTH AS A HUMAN BEING, THE SOURCE OF THIS PLANET!

    CONFIRMED HEREUNDER:

    But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, A CLEAR REFERENCE TO JESUS CHRIST AS GOD!

    THE NEW TITLE WHICH GOD ALMIGHTY HAS ENRICHED HIMSELF WITH

    is for ever and ever: OK? ETERNAL!!!

    WHICH CONFIRMS THAT GOD ALMIGHTY WOULD EVENTUALLY POSSESS THAT PARTICULAR TITLE ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD ,

    SINCE IT IS ETERNAL!

    a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom. WHOSE’S KINGDOM, OBVIOUS:

    BOTH OF THE SON, AND OF THE FATHER SINCE THEY ARE ONE!

     

    9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity:

    therefore God, your God,……….

    HOW MANY GODS ARE THERE IN THE ABOVE PHRASE?

    TWO:

    GOD ALMIGHTY FATHER TO JESUS ONLY! and  IT IS CLEAR “YOUR GOD”and

    GOD THE FATHER OF ALL CREATION JESUS CHRIST

     

    ALL WHAT YOU POSTED IS IRRELEVANT!

     

    since the title of

     

    FATHER BELONG  BOTH TO

    GOD ALMIGHTY,  RELATED TO THE SPIRITS ONLY  to be  glorified on the last day!

    AND TO JESUS CHRIST!  RELATED  BOTH TO THE SPIRIT AND FLESH!

    GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS!

     

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

     

     

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

     

     

    #795709
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Your explanation is clouded.

    T8,

    I was hoping that you are capable enough that through my post you pin point

    WHAT YOU CONSIDERED CLOUDED

    AND CONTRADICT ME SPECIFICALLY USING SCRIPTURE!

    BUT INSTEAD YOU BROUGHT SCRIPTURE WHICH YOU YOURSELF, OBVIOUS SINCE YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE, NEVER REALIZED THAT THEY ALSO ARE ATTRIBUTED TO THE TRINITY!

    BY THE WAY:

    IS GOD ALMIGHTY ALSO CLOUDED:

    SINCE THROUGHOUT THE OT. GOD’S ABODE WAS DEPICTED IN A CLOUD!!!

    Numbers 9:18 ………..All the days that the CLOUD abode over the TABERNACLE, they remained in the same place:

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795710
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Instead you focus on twisting the event to prove a Trinity?

    t8,

    Unless you pin point and contradict me specifically,

    MINE STANDS!

    IT IS YOUR TASK TO MAKE WHAT YOU CONSIDERED TWISTED NOT TWISTED!

    IT’S NO USE JUST POST SCRIPTURE WITHOUT ANY PROOF SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO MINE!

    OTHER SCRIPTURES WHICH YOU POSTED, NEED TO BY DEFINED, SOMETHING WHICH YOU NEVER DO! WHY?????

    ARE YOU IN CONFUSION?????????

    IF NOT

    DEFINE!!!!!!!!!!

    MY DEFINITIONS ARE TWISTING ACCORDING TO YOUR INTELLIGENCE, BUT YOU ARE NEVER IN THE POSITION TO DEFINE THE SAME SCRIPTURES WHICH I POSTED!! WHY?????????

    ARE YOU IN CONFUSION????????

    WITH EVERY RESPECT,TO ME YOU ARE, UNLESS YOU JUSTIFY YOUR INTELLIGENCE!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795711
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi @Carmel

    And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
    4 And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them.

    NOTICE AS PETER WAS STILL TALKING AND WANTED TO MAKE THREE SEPARATE TENTS,
    ONE CLOUD COVERED THEM,WHICH SIGNIFIES THAT ALTHOUGH THEY WERE THREE, THEY REPRESENTED THE UNITY OF THE TRINITY, THE GODHEAD AS ONE IN JESUS!

    CONFIRMED AGAIN IN GOD’S OWN WORDS:

    5 And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him.

    NOTICE,AFTER THE CLOUD COVERED THE THREE OF THEM,NOT WHEN JESUS WAS ON HIS OWN, OR THE CLOUD COVERED JESUS ONLY,

    GOD DECLARED AND SAID THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, OK?

    THE THREE OF THEM, IN ONE CLOUD, REPRESENTED

    THE SON OF GOD AS A DIVINE BEING IN

    SPIRIT, SOUL, AND FLESH!

    THE GODHEAD IN ITS GLORY!

    So Elias, Moses and Jesus is one divine being?
    One representing each aspect of flesh, soul and spirit?

    #795712
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom. WHOSE’S KINGDOM, OBVIOUS:

    BOTH OF THE SON, AND OF THE FATHER SINCE THEY ARE ONE!

    9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity:

    therefore God, your God,……….

    HOW MANY GODS ARE THERE IN THE ABOVE PHRASE?

    TWO:

    GOD ALMIGHTY FATHER TO JESUS ONLY! and IT IS CLEAR “YOUR GOD”and

    GOD THE FATHER OF ALL CREATION JESUS CHRIST

    So what you are saying is the verse that says “your throne oh God” is about Jesus hundreds of years before Jesus and although it says it is talking about a King you are saying that king is Jesus, right?

    So you view time also as a trinity meaning that time is triune, past, present and future all happening at the same time so reading scripture is nonlinear whereas the relevence of Genesis to revelation is essentially the same in time, which is why the angels can be called sons of God, Adam can be called son of God and Jesus can be called son of God as that is the spiritual aspect of triune existence whereas Jesus is God because he becomes God but was already God. Is that sounding about right?

    #795720
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Carmel, try to make one relevant point per post. People don’t really have time to reply to an essay every time. The whole discussion is the essay. It requires more effort and explanation to refute your statements, so imagine how long a decent reply would be. Maybe 3 or 4 times as long.

    I asked you for one scripture with the word “God” in it.

    You can ask me for one thing, and we can progress like that.

    You can also make one relevant point with some backup, and I will answer that point with support verses.

    We can then move from point to point knowing that each point has been discussed properly.

    #795748
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Carmel, try to make one relevant point per post. People don’t really have time to reply to an essay every time. The whole discussion is the essay. It requires more effort and explanation to refute your statements, so imagine how long a decent reply would be. Maybe 3 or 4 times as long.

    I asked you for one scripture with the word “God” in it.

    You can ask me for one thing, and we can progress like that.

    You can also make one relevant point with some backup, and I will answer that point with support verses.

    We can then move from point to point knowing that each point has been discussed properly.

    t8,

    My intention is not to answer every point BUT IN ORDER THAT WHOEVER WANTS TO CONTRADICTS ME , OBVIOUS, HE PROVES THAT I AM TELLING LIES, SO HE FIRST PICK ONE WHICH ACCORDING TO HIM IS A LIE, THEN THROUGH MY WHOLE POST HE WOULD BE IN A POSITION TO VERIFY THAT HE IS RIGHT!

    THEN LIKEWISE, HE MUST PRODUCE SCRIPTURES WHICH WHEN IT IS DEFINED IT PROVES THAT MY DEFINITION IS A LIE!

    NO ONE ON HEAVEN NET DID THAT TO ME UP TO THIS VERY DAY!

    SIMPLY, WITH EVERY RESPECT CHILDISH WAYS, BY POSTING SCRIPTURES WHICH ACCORDING TO HIS INTELLIGENCE CONTRADICTS ME, HEAR THIS NOW:

    WITHOUT HE HIMSELF DEFINES THE SCRIPTURE HE HIMSELF PRESENTED!

    SO HE IS CONFIRMING EITHER THAT HE IS NOT IN THE TRUTH, OR HE IS NOT UP TO STANDARD TO DO SO, THEREFORE NOT HUMBLE ENOUGH TO ASK FOR MORE CLARIFICATION FROM MY SIDE! SINCE WE BOTH WANT THE TRUTH TO BE REVEALED!

    I AM ANXIOUS TO READ SOME PROVEN CONTRADICTIONS SCRIPTURALLY DEFINED, NOT OPINIONS!

    MY LAST POST TO YOU IT IS VERY DETAILED PURPOSELY TO PROVE THAT I AM NOT INVENTING THINGS BUT THEY ARE PROVEN AND MATERIALISED IN SCRIPTURES!

    UNLESS YOU PICK JUST ONE SPECIFIC DETAIL AND EXPAND ON IT IN ORDER TO PROVE THE TRUTH,AND MINE A LIE!

    WHICH TO ME IT IS VERY RARE, SINCE I AM CERTAIN THAT MINE IS GENUINE, THEREFORE NOT MINE AT ALL SINCE IT IS COMING FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT,

    MINE STANDS!

    HAVE A GO!

    I AM WAITING

    MY POST IS CRAMMED WITH SPECIFIC DETAILS SO SIMPLY TAKE YOUR PICK!

    SHOW ME YOUR TRUTH

     

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795752
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    I doubt if anyone here has the same faith in your own ideas that you have.

    You are your own foundation.

    Sand.

    #795753
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    How can you be so sure of yourself

    when you are so lacking in evidence for your ideas?

    #795821
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    THEN LIKEWISE, HE MUST PRODUCE SCRIPTURES WHICH WHEN IT IS DEFINED IT PROVES THAT MY DEFINITION IS A LIE!NO ONE ON HEAVEN NET DID THAT TO ME UP TO THIS VERY DAY!

    Jesus, Peter, and Paul did that 2000 or so years ago Carmel. If they did it, then that should be enough.

    Jesus:
    Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    Peter:
    He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

    Paul
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    #795826
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Jesus:
    Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    t8,

    Pure truth:

    This is eternal life:

    A CLEAR REFERENCE TO JESUS NOT TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD, OBVIOUS SINCE ALMIGHTY GOD PASSED ALL ONTO JESUS TO ACCOMPLISH AND PERFECT ALMIGHTY GOD’S PREVIOUS

    ONLY GOOD WORK!

    that they  MAY know you,       OTHERWISE ON EARTH, YOU WOULD BE UNKNOWN, HIDDEN, HANDICAPPED A SPIRIT BEING LIKE ALL YOUR ENEMIES!

    IN ORDER THAT ALL YOUR ENEMIES MAY KNOW, THROUGH THE ETERNAL LIFE PROCESS, JESUS CHRIST, APPLIED AND GIVEN TO ALL THE DEAD, WHILE IN HIS GLORIFICATION IN HELL,

    THROUGH JESUS CHRIST ONLY, WHILE GOD ALMIGHTY IS IN HEAVEN HAVING A REST UP TO THIS VERY DAY, YOU WOULD BE PROCLAIMED ONLY IN, AND BY JESUS CHRIST PRESENCE IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSES!

    the only true God,and Jesus Christ!

     

    NOW CHEW, CHEW AND CHEW

    THE ACTUAL MEANING OF THAT GENUINE PROOF THAT

     

    OUR LORD GOD                                              THE FATHER                         TRIUNE

    JESUS         THE WORD MADE FLESH      THE SON                                 TRIUNE

    CHRIST          HIS SOUL                                  THE HOLY SPIRIT                 TRIUNE

     

    IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, ON EARTH!

    ALL IN THE SON!

    WHILE THE ALMIGHTY GOD IS IN HIS LONG REST TILL THE LAST DAY OF THE ABOVE

    LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795829
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Peter:
    He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

    T8,

    “But who do you say that I am?”

    “You are the Christ, THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON EARTH TO BE,

    SINCE IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME THAT PETER SAID SO,HE WAS NOT YET DIED,

    the Son of the living God.” THE EQUIVALENT TO HIS FATHER! IN FLESH FORM!

    flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

    HAVING A LONG REST!

    ADMIRING HIS ACHIEVEMENT THROUGH HIS SON,GOD OF ALL FLESH ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM!

    FOR WHOM, OBVIOUS BOTH FOR THE FATHER AND HIS SON SINCE THEY ARE ONE!

    John 14:8 Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you;

    and have you not known me? Philip,

    he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

    10Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.

    11Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

    12Otherwise believe for the very works’ sake. Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do.

    13Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in IN MY NAME,

    OK? NOT IN GOD ALMIGHTY’S NAME

    that will I do: SO WE ASK THE FATHER IN JESUS’ NAME AND JESUS, NOT GOD ALMIGHTY! OK? WILL DO, GOD ALMIGHTY IS REALLY HAVING A REST ISN’T HE?????

    that the Father may be glorified in the Son. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH IS THAT HOW GOD ALMIGHTY IS GLORIFIED, IN HIS SON, NOT IN HIMSELF, NOT BY HIMSELF!

    OF COURSE HE IS AN UNKNOWN GOD AS A SPIRIT ONLY ON EARTH!

    THE FACT THAT WHEN SATAN COMES ON EARTH ANDN HE SAYS ” I AM GOD! MANY WOULD BELIEVE THAT HE IS GOD!

    DO YOU PERCEIVE WHAT IN THAT MOMENT WHAT WOULD EVENTUALLY HAPPEN, IN ORDER THAT GOD ALMIGHTY WOULD BE JUSTIFIED? NO NO, NOT GOD ALMIGHTY COMES TO ANNIHILATE SATAN,BUT:

    JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND FATHER ON EARTH,

    IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER AGAIN THE FATHER WOULD BE IN HIS REST!

    MORE:

    14If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do. EMPHASISES:

    SO WHEN WE ASK JESUS, WITHOUT MENTIONING THE TITLE GOD / ALMIGHTY, JESUS, NOT GOD ALMIGHTY, DOES ALL FOR US

    WHAT A REST GOD ALMIGHTY IS HAVING!

    WHAT AN ENRICHMENT GOD ALMIGHTY ACHIEVED THROUGH “THE WORD” HIS SON, THE ONLY MEDIATOR SPIRIT AND FLESH BEING IN

    JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY TRUE GOD, ON EARTH, ABOVE EARTH, AND BENEATH THE EARTH!

    it is not in any way a kind of antagonism, TALKING TO YOU IN THIS MANNER IT IS SIMPLY

    A LOVING MADNESS TO THE TRUTH FOR THE GLORY OF JESUS CHRIST!!!!!

    THE ONLY AND MOST POWERFUL NAME THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSES,

    MY AIM NOT TO PLEASE MEN

    BUT

    JESUS CHRIST

    OTHERWISE GOD ALMIGHTY WOULD BE UPSET!DISAPPOINTED, IT WOULD LOOK THAT HE DID NOTHING WITH

    “THE WORD”

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795830
    carmel
    Participant

    For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

    t8,

    YOU DIDN’T READ THIS SINCE YOU POSTED THE ABOVE SO:

    REFLECT ON THE ABOVE STATEMENT BY PAUL:

    for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live;

    DEFINITION:

    FOR US THERE’S BUT ONE GOD,THE FATHER,

    What is the reason that Paul to make SURE that people would understand the truth, regarding the ALMIGHTY GOD didn’t say :

    THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND FATHER,!

    to stress the importance on the above PARTICULAR TITLE and confirms that he was referring IN THE TRUTH TO

    GOD ALMIGHTY???? ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    BUT instead He created WHAT LOOKS A DOUBT and he said:

    GOD, followed by a comma SO THE STRESS IS ONLY ON the title of GOD, and also separated from the title of FATHER in order to make us aware that he was not referring to just one TITLE only ALMIGHTY GOD, but to another particular GOD TITLE!

    Also to notice the article THE applied to FATHER!

    By using the title THE FATHER we would definitely become aware that GOD ALMIGHTY WAS NOT ALWAYS IN POSSESSION IN THE TRUTH OF THAT PARTICULAR TITLE! and also that from that moment on HE BECAME SO FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME!

    The fact that it was separated with a comma from the title GOD !

    SO OFFICIALLY GOD ALMIGHTY WAS NEVER YET DECLARED ON EARTH AMONG HUMANS IN GENERAL IN FLESH AND BLOOD AS

    THE FATHER, with the exception of the JEWS, and

    THE CONTEXT OF THAT PASSAGE IS RELATED TO THE GENTILES! US!

    AND PAUL WAS THE APOSTLE RESPONSIBLE FROM THE GENTILES TO PREACH TO THEM THE GOSPEL, ORDERED BY JESUS HIMSELF!

    THE FACT THAT PAUL SAID:

    FOR US, definitely as humans IN GENERAL, ESPECIALLY GENTILES!!!!!

    since GOD ALMIGHTY was ALWAYS

    FATHER only of SONS, AND OF JEWS AS HIS CHOSEN NATION!

    So Paul JUSTLY ESTABLISHED the OFFICIAL PERFECT reference both to

    GOD ALMIGHTY and TO HIS GLORIFICATION IN, and BY, HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ON EARTH AS

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    This is more asserted with the following CHARACTERISTICS mentioned by Paul after that particular title hereunder:

    from whom all things came and for whom we live;

    Reflect:

    FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME,

    The devil never came out from GOD ALMIGHTY!

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” THE SON AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT! Since he was the first born of ALL creatures!

    Adam never came out from GOD ALMIGHTY

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” THE SON AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT! since he was the first born of all creatures!

    Eve never came out from GOD ALMIGHTY!

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” THE SON AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT! since he was the first born of all creatures!

    THERE’S NO SPACE , AND TIME AVAILABLE TO LIST WHAT GOD ALMIGHTY CREATED IN, AND BY “THE WORD” THE SON, JESUS’ SPIRIT, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, BUT TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO PONDER READ HEREUNDER AND REFLECT VERY DEEP BEFORE YOU HAVE THE LEAST EAGERNESS TO ANSWER THIS POST, BECAUSE IT IS NOT MINE, BUT

    THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ME IS TALKING:

    JESUS as a human in flesh and blood, never came out from  GOD ALMIGHTY as such:

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT!since he was the first born of all creatures!

    SO WHEN PAUL SAID:

    FOR US , THERE’S ONE GOD, THE FATHER,

    HE DEFINITELY never MEANT to refer to GOD ALMIGHTY ONLY IN THE TRUTH BUT TO:

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRST

    THE LAST DETAIL:

    the last bit of attribute which Paul allocated to

    GOD, THE FATHER, IS:

    through whom we live.

    Now reflect:

    IN ORDER TO BE ACCEPTED BY GOD ALMIGHTY,

    THROUGH WHOM WE ACTUALLY LIVE:

    NO DO NOT ANSWER I WILL DO IT FOR YOU SINCE WITH EVERY RESPECT,

    IT IS NOT ACCEPTED WITHIN YOUR UNDERSTANDING:

     

    THROUGH ” THE WORD” JESUS’ SPIRIT, THE ONLY MEDIATOR SPIRIT BETWEEN GOD ALMIGHTY AND HUMANS!

    THE MOST POWERFUL SPIRIT

    JESUS CHRIST

    WHOM THE FATHER IS WELL PLEASED TO ABIDE WITHIN!

    AND  ENRICHED HIMSELF WITH THE TITLE OF:

     

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

     

     

    Peace and love in Jesus
    Charles

    #795835
    princess
    Participant

    “Carmel, try to make one relevant point per post. People don’t really have time to reply to an essay every time. The whole discussion is the essay. It requires more effort and explanation to refute your statements, so imagine how long a decent reply would be. Maybe 3 or 4 times as long.”

     

    Hear! Hear! Bravo T8.

    Perhaps to get all three gods voices out of ones head is the reason to post like that. one god says this, then the other chimes in then the other needs a say so too. But it is not uncommon for a individual to believe in many gods. Eastern religions are well known for it. The rub has to be pulling from the religion one has taken on and try to intertwine it to make it so.

    When I read the texts of the Christian bible, I do so without interference, no church, no internet just meditation and prayer for about two years. The first time I heard of the trinity I thought the person was mad. Many years later, it still holds true for me.

    Really don’t know how after all these years T8 of seeing this, you continue on ……it’s like three against one! ha!

    #795883
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    lol Princess.

    300 to 1.

    🙂

     

    #795884
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Charles that is another long post, but I read it through and there is nothing in there that proves that Jesus is God, but that he came from God.

    This we already know.

    Jesus said it himself here:

    John 8:42
    Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

    Is the Father your God, or is the Trinity your God?

    #796173
    carmel
    Participant

    testing the trinity

    I believe God created the universe and therefore has no need for any space.

    Kerwin,

    It seems to me that you cannot accept the PURE FACT THAT

    WHAT WE CALL EMPTY SPACE

    IS NOT EMPTY SPACE AT ALL!

    I AM IGNORING ALL SCIENTIFIC CONCLUSIONS!

    SINCE TODAY THEY ARE LOOKING AT SPACE AS SOMETHING ALIVE, NOT DEAD LIKE IT WAS SO BELIEVED!

    I AM MORE THAN CONVINCED THAT SPACE ITSELF IS A MYSTERIOUS INFINITE ETERNAL EXISTENCE WITH OWN MYSTERIOUS DIMENSIONS, WHICH IN OUR TERMS ONLY WE CALL THEM LENGTH, WIDTH, AND DEPTH!

    SO SPACE IS NOT JUST SPACE AS SUCH, EVEN THE WORD ITSELF ISN’T SO, RELATED TO GOD, SO IT IS ONLY IN OUR TERMS SO!

    BUT THAT SPACE IS ALSO

    THE MOST MYSTERIOUS ENTITY THROUGHOUT AND WHAT WE CALL

    GOD ALMIGHTY

    I give you and example:

    A PERSON ENTERED IN WHAT FOR HIM WAS AN EMPTY ROOM HE PUT ON THE LIGHT SWITCH!

    BUT HE WAS NOT IN A POSITION TO REALIZE THAT IT WASN’T EMPTY AT ALL!

    SCIENCE WOULD NEVER HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT THE SWITCH ON NEVER MIND SEE WHAT THAT EMPTY SPACE CONTAINS!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #796174
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    Philosophical meanderings?

    Scripture tastes better.

    #797596
    carmel
    Participant

     

    If you have Trinity on the brain, then you can see Trinities everywhere you look.

    t8,
    but for sure the above applies to ALL THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE TRINTIY DOCTRINE,
    SINCE EVEN IF IT IS EVIDENTLY CLEAR THAT GOD IS A TRIUNE SPIRIT!

    But seriously let’s look at some verses that mention what you would argue as the Trinity:
    1 Corinthians 12:4-6 mentions the Spirit, Lord, and God;2 Corinthians 13:14 lists Christ, God, and the Holy Ghost [Spirit];Galatians 4:4-6 lists God, Son, and Spirit of his Son;Ephesians 4:4-6 lists Spirit, Lord and, God; &1 Peter 1:2 lists God, Spirit, and Jesus Christ.
    Notice the above scriptures. Can you see the problem?
    God is already defined and is talking about the Father.

    Now you are convinced that there is a PROBLEM right?
    But since you are so convinced about WHAT FOR YOU IS A PROBLEM,
    What is the actual PROBLEM, that you never took the least interest to explain your understanding related to:

    GOD, and FATHER since:

    JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY TRUE

    GOD and FATHER in relation to us HUMANS!

    HOW CAN GOD ALMIGHTY A SPIRIT WITHOUT FLESH AND SEX, CAN BE A FATHER OF FLESH AND SEXUAL REPRODUCTION CREATURES?

     

    Now in the above , you posted scriptures which according to you are not a reference to the TRINITY DOCTRINE, But from the other hand one in particular 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 confirms it AND IT IS EVIDENTLY CLEAR!

    READ: 6 And there are diversities of operations, but the same God,

    SO THE OPERATION/FUNCTION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD
    THE OPERATION/FUNCTION OF ! “THE WORD” THE SON JESUS IS GOD
    THE OPERATION/ FUNCTION OF THE FATHER IS GOD!

    SO THEY ARE THREE, OPERATIONS/FUNCTIONS, BUT ONE GOD!

    NOW SHOW ME YOUR UNDERSTANDING!

    Peace and love in Jesus
    Charles

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