Testing the Trinity

Trinity Painting

 

The Spirit is the Spirit OF God
Yeshua is the son OF God.
So is the Father, the Father OF God?

No, the Father is never referred to as the Father of God, by teachers or in the Bible. That is because there is no doubt among Christians that the Father is God and not OF him. Even Paul stated this when he said, “for us there is one God the Father”. Today’s confession however, goes more like this: “for us there is one God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit”. So why is today’s language describing God different to what we read in scripture? What is going on?

The journey to answer this question and other related questions about the Trinity goes back a few decades for me. God had challenged my belief on the Trinity while I blindly believed and accepted the Trinity Doctrine as a pillar of my faith and assumed that it was the foundation of Christianity. But like most Christians, I had never really check it out. I knew at the time that God wants us to know intimately what we believe in and to test all things and also to watch our doctrine closely so we do not become deceived.

What I discovered about the Trinity

With a conviction in my heart to test the Trinity Doctrine, I embarked on reading scriptures that described God and to test the verses that are used to support the Trinity, but what I found truly challenged my belief in the Trinity. However, when I brought the subject up with other Christians while I was investigating this, there seemed to be this “do not question attitude” and in the end I decided I would just leave it and accept that the Trinity Doctrine was correct even though I felt that I was being untrue to the conviction in my heart. I based this decision on making other Christians feel uncomfortable with me as they assumed I was erring from the faith. In hindsight, I can see my problem was based in the fear of man. Truth should always override what people think.

It was some years later that God made me face my belief in the Trinity again and he kept putting certain scriptures in front of me to provoke me to test this belief. In the end I decided that I would not run away from this anymore, and I did a full study of the subject where God divinely lead me to a new scripture almost one each day. Each scripture in succession built a picture that really helped me to understand what God was conveying to me. While I had and continue to have a clear understanding of what the Trinity Doctrine teaches, the challenge was about seeing whether the Trinity Doctrine was a biblical doctrine.

What I discovered was very interesting and I will condense what I have been shown below.

  1. The Trinity Doctrine is not taught anywhere in scripture, but trinities were common in Paganism. They are rooted in Babylon, prominent in Egypt, still exist in India, and is the foundation of Roman Catholicism.
  2. The beginnings of recognition of this doctrine for Christianity started at the Council of Nicea approximately 325 AD. Hundreds of years after the last book in the Bible was written.
  3. The Council of Nicea was organized by the Roman Emperor Constantine and he had the final say on matters that he had little understanding of. He was also head of the Pagan religions.
  4. During and after the Holy Roman Empire, creed followed creed, and eventually idols were accepted as forms that we can worship God through. Mary was exalted to Mother of God (a title that goes back to Babylon) and worship of the saints was also sanctioned.
  5. The organized church we see today was built on top of these creeds. The creeds were and are the foundation for many of today’s churches/denominations. These denominations are not to be confused with the Body of Christ spoken of in the scripture. Most denominations are still rooted in a Trinitarian creed of some kind. So their foundation is the Trinity which came from Babylon.
  6. The mother of these denominations the Roman Catholic Church murdered approximately 50 million people, had armies which Jesus said his church did not need, and banned access to scripture to Christians. This time is known by the descriptive term, ‘The Dark Ages’.
  7. Some relief came during the Reformation where the teachings and authority of the Catholic Church were challenged. The Reformation restored many truths back to the Body of Christ.
  8. As a result of the Reformation, many new denominations started up, but they too held onto some of the creeds including the Trinity Doctrine.
  9. Babylon means confusion and the foundation of most denominations is the Trinity Doctrine which is confusing to all, even proponents of the doctrine. We are told to come out Babylon the Mystery religion lest we partake in her sins and iniquity. Who is Babylon? She is the mother of all harlots and the kings of the Earth have committed adultery with her. She is the religious system that was rooted in Babylon and she has made the whole world drunk on her wine.

History of the Trinity

From a historical point of view it seems strange to me that one of the pillars of Christianity didn’t come into existence or wasn’t recognized until 300 years after the death of Christ. On this point alone, I think its strange that we are encouraged not to question this doctrine and worse still, the the circumstances in which this doctrine came about should lead any clear thinking person to be at least suspicious.

In addition to that, the fruit of this doctrine appears to be bad. We know that one lie leads to another and history shows us that making Jesus God, opened the door for Mary to become the mother of God. Further, if Mary is the Mother of God, then that opens the door to the worship of other humans or saints.

In Revelation 17 we read about the ‘Mother of Harlots’ or the Great Prostitute who sits on many waters. Many people have speculated on her identity. Some say it is New York or the USA, others say it is Rome. If you are not familiar with this section of scripture, then it would pay to read it now before reading on.

Lets imagine for a minute that it is Rome as Rome is after all known to this day as the city of 7 hills. Now Constantine the Roman Emperor who dictated to the church so called truth becomes the original model of the person we call the Pope today. The Pope sits on a throne with supreme authority to dictate so called truth to the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church admits by it’s very name that it’s roots are in Rome and many of the traditions she adheres to come from Pagan traditions and festivals and were re-branded as Christian back in the days of Emperor Constantine. In one sense we can see that these creeds led to the worship of idols and men and changed the truth of God to a lie. But in order for these man-made creeds and lies to be administered and managed, there needed to exist some kind of organization of man to manage the politics of enforcing such creeds. The organizations are of course the organized churches of which the Catholic church is perhaps the mother which would make the smaller denominations the harlots or daughters of the harlot. The term ‘Mother of Harlots’ of course leads us to wonder who the daughters or offspring are. We also read that the kings of the earth have committed adultery with this harlot and we all know that many world leaders befriend the organized church so they can leverage her influence for their own political agendas and to gain votes. There will however come a time when God will call his children out of her because he will judge her quickly.

Babel, Babylon, Egypt, and Rome all have one thing in common. Their motives were to become great and make a name themselves. They also built structures as a way of showing their greatness and prowess. But the spirit of Babylon, Egypt, and Rome also enslave the children of God and also hated them to the point of death. In Rev 17 we read that the woman was drunk on the blood of the saints and is guilty of all the martyrs. History also records the dreadful killings of Christians by Rome and the enslavement of Israel by Egypt, but how many people are aware that the Catholic Church is also responsible for burning to death millions of people including Christians. They were killed as ‘heretics’ for things like reading scripture, translating scripture, or daring to obey the scriptures instead of their traditions.

Many denominations today still operate under this spirit of control including the persecution of those who question doctrines like the Trinity. Try questioning this doctrine in any denomination that is built on this creed, and watch the horror on people’s faces and the warnings that will proceed thereafter.

We know from scripture that the curse of Babel was division. The Babylonians built a tower in their name and God divided their language to weaken them, lest they succeed in all kinds of wickedness. But this spirit also exists in the organised churches. Each Denomination has its own creed, its own leaders and own customs or tradition, and they are all about making a name for themselves. They build towers in their name and in times past the steeples on these structure were the tallest structures in their communities. Now can you see that denominations are really just the divided languages of Christianity, just the same as divisions caused by multiple natural languages resulting from Babel. And the reason for this division is not what many think, it is so they cannot together succeed at works of iniquity and while in this divisive state, they cannot accomplish anything their hearts desire. True unity is extremely important and something that God will bring about and is already doing. But unity in the love and truth of God is paramount, not unity in making a name for themselves. People are misguided when they think that it would be a good thing if all the denominations united under one banner. What is better it people uniting in the truth because of their love of God and all things that are of him.

Denominations and their Trinity foundation

But doesn’t God use denominations to spread his gospel?. The quick answer to this is God uses men to do his work. If these men are part of a denomination or not, God uses the man, not the building and not the system. If you look into this you will likely find that the system actually hinders men in being led the the Spirit of God and the system itself takes up much resources to run, when instead such resources could help the poor and needy.

Many are being used by God for his purposes and this has been true since the birth of the Church. In times of great ignorance, it appears that God does compromise for our benefit. He works with what he can and we often limit God. But God is constantly trying to give us access to his limitless resources. In this age of denominations, it is hard to accept that there really is only one church built on the foundation of Christ and the Apostles. The only divisions are actually geographical divisions. The 7 churches in Revelation for example aren’t 7 separate churches, but 7 cities in which the Church resides. For example, in the Book of Revelation where it says: “to the Church in Laodecia”, it is saying to the Body of Christ in that particular city. We need to open our eyes in order to see the real Church. When you can really see the Body of Christ, you will never again say, I am going to church, because you will realize that we are the Church regardless of your location. This explains why we also read in 1 Corinthians 16:19: “The churches of Asia send greetings to you. Aquila and Prisca greet you warmly in the Lord, with the church that meets in their house.”. So this simply means the part of the Church that meets in that house. It was not a denomination like we see today.

Most denominations today have a Statement of Faith as their foundation and these are usually based on creeds formed centuries ago, but centuries after the Bible was first penned. Often Christians are invited or required to take out membership and that often requires an acceptance of a particular Statement of Faith. This sort of thing is common, yet it is unscriptural and deceives people into thinking that the denomination is the Church. They also think that once they have membership they belong to the Church. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Anyone can agree to a Statement of Faith or a Creed, even a mass murderer could do that. True Believers believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord, the Son of God, and the Messiah. The true Church is made up of God’s children and He dwells in them via his Spirit. Denominations on the other hand can contain true believers, but they can also contain non-believers, criminals, and unrepentant sinners. All true believers should use scripture and the Word of God as our Statement of Faith and we should realize that there is only One Church called the Body of Christ. The head of the true Church is Jesus Christ himself, not a Pope, Archbishop, or a president. We would do well to keep away from the words, wisdom and traditions of men.

The truth about God and who he is

Now the Trinity Doctrine says that God is made up of three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But the truth is that the Father is the only true God. So who is the son? Easy. He is the son of this God.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The above scripture is not to be taken lightly. Do not pass over it until you have grasped it. After all, it is eternal life and isn’t that the point of having faith in God?

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Clearly, the God and Father of all is the Father and not Jesus. Jesus is the Lord according to the above scripture.

Instead of using the Trinity to describe the God and his relationship with his Son. how about use Jesus own words. Are not his words better than some creed that came from man? John 15:1-2
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

This scripture shows the same 3 levels that we see in the scripture below. Note: The word head means authority, head or source.

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The true doctrine & foundation

The scriptures show us that we believers are united in doctrine by believing the following:

  • God exists and rewards those that seek him.
  • We must repent of our sins and turn to God and serve him.
  • Jesus is the only way to God and we should be baptized into his name.
  • Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
  • Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the dead to the highest position (throne), that he may present us to God, holy and sanctified.
  • Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church.
  • The Spirit of God leads us and teaches us all things.
  • That Jesus will return to earth and all the earthly kingdoms will fall. The Kingdom of God will come to earth.
I can have true unity of purpose with anyone that believes these points. The Trinity should never be pushed or taught as a doctrine, but today it is taught not only as a doctrine, but a foundational doctrine. However the Trinity Doctrine as a foundation is actually another foundation. Another foundation is not the same as the true foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now Matthew 16:13-18 has a key for us.
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

Jesus commends Peter when he declares that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Now Peter never said that Jesus was God at that opportune moment, but I am sure that many Christians given the same question today would say that he is God, yet that answer is different to the one Peter was commended for. Jesus actually built his Church on this truth, so it is obvious from this alone that the Trinity Doctrine is not the foundation of Jesus Church.

Now it is easy to show scriptures that show the Father to be God and there also appear to be a few scriptures that say that Jesus is God (Elohim, Theos). Most of the time Jesus is referred to as the Son of God. Even the Devil and demons called him the Son of God. See Matthew 8:29 & Matthew 4:3-6

But a lot of people also ignore the fact that we humans are also called Gods. John 10:34 uses the word “theos” to describe Man.
Psalms 82:6 uses the word “Elohim” to describe Man.

The word God is also used for Idols and Satan.
Exodus 20:23 uses the word “elohim” to describe Idols.
2 Corinthians 4:4 uses the word “theos” of this world to describe Satan.

But it must be made clear that ‘Elohim’ and ‘Theos’ are not names of God, they are titles in the same way Master is a title. When we see the word God, it is important to read the adjectives to see what kind of God is being referred to. E.g. the Most High God (the Father) is different to the God of this age (Satan).

Now there are many gods as I have pointed out, but the Father is the Most High God. See 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 which says
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Also remember that Jesus calls us brethren/brothers. But to the Father we are his children or offspring.

Now Psalm 2:7 says
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

So the name of the Most High God is (YHWH) which is referred to by scholars as Yahweh. So Yahweh (God) is the Father of Jesus. So it is clear that Jesus is not Yahweh. He is Yahweh’s Son. Now Jesus in Hebrew is Yashua and he is never referred to as Yahweh. Yashua means “Yahweh saves” or “Yahweh is salvation”. So God’s name is in his son’s name. (Yah)

Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this reason I kneel before the Father,
15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name.

Just like Trinitarians today, the Jews thought that Jesus was claiming to be God, but Jesus defended this accusation with the following words in John 10:34-36
34 “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

So the Jews accused Jesus of saying he was God and instead of agreeing and saying something like “Yes I am God” Jesus defended himself with the statement “You are Gods (theos) and then he stresses that he was claiming to be the Son of God.” Many Christians still make the same mistake today. Read John 10:27-36 to read the above words of Jesus in context. In that context, Jesus even said to the Jews that the Father was greater than himself.

Who and what is Jesus

So who is Jesus. The following Statements are from the scriptures, and should be the words that we trust in in order to understand who Jesus really is.

  • God has spoken to us through the Prophets and now his Son.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • The Son is the exact brightness of God’s glory.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is the image of the invisible God.
    See Colossians 1:12-16
  • God sustains all things by his Word (Jesus is the Word of God).
    See Hebrews 1:1-6 & John 1:1
  • He is seated at the right hand of God.
    See Colossians 3:1-3
  • He inherited a name more superior to the Angels.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is worthy to be worshipped by Angels.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • God became a Father when he begat his son “You are my Son, today I have become your Father”.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is the Firstborn from the Dead.
    See Revelation 1:4-6
  • Jesus has first place in everything.
    See Colossians 1:18
  • Jesus is head over the Church.
    See Ephesians 1:22
  • He is Gods firstborn.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • Jesus is the Ruler or Beginning of the Creation of God.
    See Revelation 3:14
  • Jesus is begotten, not created.
    See John 1:3
The last scripture above, shows us that Jesus was not created. Many other scriptures show us that Jesus is begotten (born). See John 1:18 & John 3:18

Jesus is truly the only begotten Son of God. Yes we too are the Sons of God, but we were begotten from God through his Word (Christ). All creation was made this way. But Jesus was begotten directly from God and he is the exact image of God. And we (the church) are the image of Christ. Again I point out the importance of 1Corinthians 11:3 and Colossians 2:8-10 which says,
in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

Here we can see clearly that Christ is the fullness of God and we the Church are the fullness of Christ. So consider this, if we use this scripture to say that Jesus is God, then in all fairness we have to conclude that we are Christ. This is of course a misinterpretation of scripture. The truth is that Jesus has the divine nature and God also wants us to share that nature too. So just as the Deity is in Christ, Christ is in us.

To be divine and to be the Divine is two different things. One identifies a nature and the other identifies a person. God is the Divine and he shares his nature with his sons who are part of his family. Christ has divine nature as the Son is like his Father. But did you know hat we can also partake of the divine nature and still not be God? And if you understand that, then it must be that if Jesus has divine nature, then that also does not make him God.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Moving on, Matthew 24:36 shows us clearly that the Son doesn’t know everything, yet God is all knowing.
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. My confession is that Jesus Christ is Lord and I believe that all will confess this one day. And I also believe that God is Spirit and Invisible and that he resides inside and outside of his creation. See 2 Chronicles 2:6. Similar to physical light, it is invisible except that it reveals all things. Now when light strikes a prism it reflects all the colours and this is like Christ. He reveals and reflects God who is light. Jesus reveals the Invisible Spirit who dwells in him. Jesus has a body and the glory of God is visible to us in Christ. There is no other way for us to se God or to know God or to fellowship with God. Jesus is the only Mediator between Man and God.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Jesus is the Image of God and he is seated on the Fathers throne above creation and Jesus seats us on his throne.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. Jesus calls his Father, God and he says that his God is also our God. See John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ” & Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Also in John 8:28 we read the following:
Jesus said “I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me”

Now 1 Corinthians 15:27 shows us clearly that Jesus is not God.
27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When the Most High God is being referred to, it is always talking about the Father.

John 3:16 says
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Conclusion

To sum up: 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 embodies what I am saying.
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

The Trinity makes and idol out of God. Its no different to making a graven image from your hands as it is to make God into a form in your mind or using a diagram to depict him. It is the nature of Man to do this. The Trinity and Nicene Creed is the founding document to the man made organized religion that has suppressed and kept in fear many of Gods people. Upon that creed many heresies followed. If its origin is man then its fruit will be death, control and fear and history has revealed the fruit of this doctrine. God is a person and the Trinity Doctrine says that God is a class/family. We know that there are many gods, so the word ‘god’ can be used in the sense of class, but there is only one God the person otherwise there would be more than 1 God. I and many others including the Jews believe that God is a person, not an organization. Perhaps God is calling us out of Egypt and her gods. This is where the Trinity Doctrine came from and the Egyptians already worshipped a Trinity before the gospel reached them. All they did was replace the names. But the concept remains the same. A Christian appearance but a pagan heart. Two more scriptures before I finish.

Proverbs 8:22-30 Talks about someone who was brought forth by God, yet existed before creation and witnessed God creating the Cosmos.
Matthew 3:17 says “And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased” So WHO is Jesus? He is the Christ, the Son of God, the Word of God, the Image of God and the Wisdom of God. He is of God and shares his nature, but he is not that God in identity. The true God is his Father and our Father.

For a more in depth look at this subject, see the writing The Trinity Doctrine.

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  • #794956
    DavidL
    Participant

    The issue is you deny the Deity of Jesus

    When Christ Himself claimed to be the Son of God – outright..!!

    By accepting Jesus, we accept His Divine nature

    thus we are grafted into the Vine…

    as adopted sons..

     

    Our sonship itself is dependent on the Son being God (One with the Father).

    #794958
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    This is a new teaching.

    But are you not a branch of the vine.

    Is the vine of a different nature than the branches grafted onto it?

     

    #794959
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Your beliefs about Jesus and the Spirit have no scriptural foundation.

    #794963
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Branches are of exactly the same nature as the vine.

    Both are different to the vinedresser.

     

    You have a God.

    Do you need to make your Lord into another god?

     

    The fulness of deity was IN HIM.

    God was IN HIM reconciling the world to himself

    #795024
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    ”I and the children which God has given me”.

    Without looking into the original language and context, on the outset this does not appear to say or mean “sons of Christ”.

    Jesus and the children of God who are his brothers.

    But a quick google brought up these two verses which appear to be interchangeable or at least translated differently by different translations.

    Galatians 3:26 (NIV)
    So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,

    Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
    For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

    This gets me thinking that a son is a child in the usual sense of the word. Or starts of as a child.

    John 1:12 (NIV)
    Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

    John 1:12 (KJV)
    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    #795025
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @Davidl

    Scripture speaks of the Son as God, the Spirit as God, and the Father as God

    Why do you ignore that it also calls the sons of God and theos and angels as elohim?

    Further, even Satan is called a theos.

    Just because others are called or described as theos does not mean the Trinity is so DavidL. Is the Devil or the Judges of Israel part of the Trinity? No.

    Did you not know that there are many so-called theos, but for us, there is ONE THEOS, the FATHER.

    You cannot be US when Paul wrote that right?

    #795030
    kerwin
    Participant

    David L,

    To the spiritual device nature means like God in true righteousness and holiness as they hunger and thirst to be filled with that divine nature. Just in case you do not realize it, the only place divine nature is mentioned in the AV of the KJV is in reference to believers sharing in it, 2 Peter 1:4.

    #795031
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Yes, I realize we disagree about the meaning of Scripture in regards to the time Jesus received the Spirit.

    #795040
    carmel
    Participant

     

    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    t8,

    The above is a direct reference to:

    THE SONS OF GOD NOT TO THE CHILDREN OF GOD!

    ARE YOU IN A POSITION TO DETERMINE THE REASON WHY, SINCE YOU ARE IN CONFUSION REGARDING THE TRINITY DOCTRINE, and all what is related to it.

    THE FACT THAT THE TRINITY IS RELATED TO BOTH REGARDING THE ABOVE DIFFERENT TITLES SONS/CHILDREN

    AND ALSO WHAT YOU STATED HEREUNDER:

    Just because others are called or described as theos does not mean the Trinity is so DavidL. Is the Devil or the Judges of Israel part of the Trinity? No.

     

    YES ALL ARE PART OF  THEIR RESPECTIVE TRINITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    LIKE ALL HUMANS ARE AND REPRESENTED IN THEIR OWN TRINITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :

    AS SPIRIT, SOUL AND FLESH!

    WHICH ON THE LAST THEY OF THE LORD, THEY ALL BECOME ONE

    THE FACT THAT OUR FIRST PROCESS IS TO UNIFY

     

    THE SOUL AND THE SPIRIT FIRST FOR THE DETRIMENT OF THE FLESH, SATAN’S SUBSTANCE,

    WHEN GOD KNOWS!!!! EVENTUALLY ALL SOULS WOULD BECOME ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE SPIRIT, WHETHER IN THIS TERM ON EARTH, OR IN THE AFTER LIFE TERM!

    THEN GOD THE FATHER WOULD SUPPLY THE NEW JERUSALEM, THE BRIDE, THE NEW IMMACULATE FLESH SUBSTANCE TO FORM THE NEW BODY

    and that would be also THE BIGGEST TRINITY IN SPIRITS, SOULS, AND FLESH BODIES

    BUT IN THE SAME TIME

    ONE SUBSTANCE!

    IN ORDER FOR THE FATHER TO BE

     

    ALL IN ALL FOR ETERNITY

    DECLARED IN:

    1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as he will: and to every seed its proper body.

    NOW, ALSO NOTICE DAUGHTERS ARE NOT MENTIONED AT ALL!!!!!!

    are daughters not IMPORTANT in the achievement of God’s kingdom?

    ARE THEY USELESS CREATURES? DEFINITELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NOW, THE TRINITY DOCTRINE IS ALSO RELATED TO THAT KIND OF AMBIGUITY!

    WHICH IF WOMAN WOULD BE AWARE OF IT,THEY WOULD BE MORE HAPPY  TO KNOW THAT THEY IN THE TRUTH ARE PERFECTLY EQUAL WITH MAN IN THE PROCESS OF THE KINGDOM OF THE LORD GOD!

    AS IT IS DECLARED IN:

    1 Corinthians 11:11 But yet neither is

    the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795044
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @carmel,

    you do not believe that the Father is the one true God, and that Jesus is not that God, instead is another that was sent by the one true God.

    Because you do not believe this central truth, you do not believe the words of eternal life that Jesus spoke.

    John 17:3
    Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    John 10:27
    My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

    Carmel, if you are one of the sheep, you will hear the voice of the shepherd. The shepherd clearly said that the Father is the one true God and Jesus is the one who whom he sent. But you do not hear his words of eternal life. Further, it is obviously important to hear him, and we are instructed to know him and his son.

    How can you claim to know them when you argue against these words of eternal life?

    This is a legit question and not an attack on your character. I would like an answer.

    #795074
    DavidL
    Participant

    t8

    Did you not know that there are many so-called theos, but for us, there is ONE THEOS, the FATHER.

    You cannot be US when Paul wrote that right?

     

    Your understanding of Scripture is flawed…

    because you have come to rely on logic to guide you,

    rather than the Spirit of God…

     

    The Father is the One true God – please remember that no “Trinitarian” denies this at all…

    But you take one side of the coin as if it were the whole picture – and this is where you have stumbled…

    Jesus clearly stated that He Himself was One with the one true God (His Father)..

    A declaration that no mere “human,” however great, could ever say…

     

    Please consider this, if you claim to seek the truth…

     

     

    #795159
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    If the Father is the one true God why do you need to add in a trinity theory?

    #795196
    carmel
    Participant

     

    So you do believe that the universe has always existed and then in an instant it started to exspand and is still expanding to this day.

    Kerwin,

    As Far as I know I was specific, and clear enough!

    so Read again:

    space
    noun
    1. a continuous area or expanse which is free, available, or unoccupied.

    So space is UNOCCUPIED related to our understanding!

    BUT RELATED TO GOD IT WAS NOT EMPTY AT ALL,

    SINCE GOD WAS THAT SPECIFIC WHAT WE CALL SPACE

    Then you kept insisting on the word UNIVERSE!

    If dimensions have always existed then so has our universe though it was originally empty of all but God.

    WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL UNOCCUPIED SPACE,

    SINCE A UNIVERSE IS THE VERY SPACE BUT OCCUPIED

    SPACE FULL OF CREATURES!READ:
    WIKIPEDIA:
    The Universe is the totality of existence.[8][9][10][11] This includes planets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, the smallest subatomic particles, and all matter and energy, the majority of which are most likely in the form of dark matter and dark energy.[12][13]

    The part of the Universe that we can see, referred to as the observable universe, is about 28 billion parsecs (91×109 ly) in diameter at the present time.

    [1] The size of the whole universe is not known and may be infinite.

    CLEAR INFINITE!

    So it is clear that if universe is space crammed with creatures, and also infinite! therefore there’s only one entity who is infinite, and that IS:

    GOD ALMIGHTY!

    NOW YOU CAME UP WITH:

    God does not fit definition 1a1

    WHO SAID THAT GOD FIT ANY KIND OF DEFINITION, except his unfathomable ?

    HOW ON EARTH COULD WE USE OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING, AND TERMS TO DEFINE GOD??

    BUT THAT IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT HE HASN’T GOT HIS OWN MYSTERIOUS DEFINITION, AND DIMENSIONS!SINCE HE IS An unfathomable BEING?

    THE FACT THAT GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS!

    THEREFORE IF MAN HAS HIS OWN DEFINITIONS AND DIMENSIONS GOD ALSO HAS HIS OWN UNIQUE  unfathomable MYSTERIOUS DEFINITIONS AND DIMENSIONS

    NOW I SAID:

    Space itself is the MYSTERIOUS DIMENSION WHICH WE CALL GOD!

    God himself sustains all whatever is in that dimension!

    SO GOD WAS THAT VERY FIRST WHAT WE CALL EMPTY SPACE,

    THAT PARTICULAR EMPTY SPACE IS GOD, AND HAS HIS OWN MYSTERIOUS DIMENSIONS,AND DEFINITIONS.

    NOW, FROM THAT VERY FIRST EMPTY SPACE A BIG BANG OCCURRED FROM WITHIN ITS CENTRE,  BURNING LOVE!

    IT STARTED, IT EXPANDED,IT IS EXPANDING, AND IT WILL NEVER END FROM EXPANDING!

    THEREFORE IT  WAS AND IT IS NOT EMPTY AT ALL, EVEN WHEN WE TOOK IT FOR GRANTED THAT IT WAS!!!!

    TO CONCLUDE YOU SAID:

    I have a hard, if not impossible, task describing him as he is not part of creation.

    THIS IS BRILLIANCE FROM YOUR SIDE!!

    YOU ARE DECLARING THAT GOD IS NOT PART OF CREATION!

    EXPLAIN THIS THEN:

    (1) ALL BY HIM,

    ALL CREATION WAS CREATED BY GOD, AND CREATION IS WHAT WE CALL THE VISIBLE UNIVERSES WHICH IS WITHIN THAT WHAT WE CALL EMPTY SPACE, WHICH IS

    GOD ALMIGHTY! WHICH IS SCRIPTURALLY DECLARED:

    (2) ALL IN HIM

    SO ALL THE UNIVERSES IS THE PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION OF GOD ALMIGHTY!

    NOW GET THIS INTO YOUR MIND:

    GOD ALMIGHTY WAS THAT ACTUAL WHAT WE CALL EMPTY SPACE!

    HE WAS THE EXTERNAL UNIQUE SPIRIT ALL WITHIN HIMSELF!

    GOD ALMIGHTY ESTABLISHED THE VERY FIRST ENTITY:

    LET THERE BE LIGHT: “THE WORD”

    THE BIG BANG COMMENCED CREATION! “THE WORD”

    FROM THEN ON

    ” THE WORD ” OCCUPIED WHAT WE CALL THE ENTIRE EMPTY SPACE AVAILABLE IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME!

    AND WITHIN “THE WORD” ABIDED GOD ALMIGHTY and it will remain there

    FOR ETERNITY WITHIN THE VERY CENTRE OF “THE WORD” HIS SON!

    HE  WOULD NEVER BE AGAIN THE EXTERNAL SPIRIT ANY MORE LIKE HE WAS ALL BY HIMSELF,WHEN IT WAS WHAT WE CALL EMPTY SPACE!

    THE LAST ONE:

    THE ONLY EXTERNAL MANIFESTATION THAT GOD ALMIGHTY EVENTUALLY WOULD POSSESS IS:

    JESUS CHRIST!

    AND ALSO

    THE ENTIRE CREATION ITSELF:

    BUT ALSO THROUGH ” THE WORD” JESUS CHRIST!

    AS 1John 3:2 declares:

    Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear,

    we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is

    GOD ALMIGHTY

    ALL IN ALL

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795491
    carmel
    Participant

    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: .

    T8,

    In view of the above,

    I ASKED YOU :

    ARE YOU IN A POSITION TO DETERMINE THE REASON WHY,
    IT SAYS THE SONS OF GOD, MALES, and ignored completely the daughters, FEMALES. and NEVER USED THE TERMS
    CHILDREN OF GOD?

    you also said:

    .

    Just because others are called or described as theos does not mean the Trinity is so DavidL. Is the Devil or the Judges of Israel part of the Trinity? No.

    YES the devil has his own trinity CONCEPT, otherwise he wouldn’t have existed at all!
    God created all within the concept of its respective trinity,

    SINCE HE HIMSELF ABIDED IN ALL: OMNIPRESENCE

    THE FACT THAT WE LUCIFER’S REMNANTS ARE:

    Spirit, souls and flesh! All in one

    BODY, AND ON THE LAST DAY THESE THREE ENTITIES WOULD BECOME ONE FOR ETERNITY IN ORDER TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR GOD ALMIGHTY TO ABIDE

    ALL IN ALL!

    ONE!

    NOW SINCE YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY DOCTRINE, YOU WILL NEVER DISCERN SCRIPTURES WHICH MANIFESTED IT, EXTRAVAGANTLY.

    HEREUNDER SCRIPTURE GIVES AN EXAMPLE OF

    THREE DIFFERENT FUNDAMENTAL TYPES OF TRINITY DOCTRINE DEPICTIONS!

    OF COURSE YOU WOULD NEVER DISCERN THIS, BUT FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH, IT IS HEREUNDER FOR WHOEVER IS INTERESTED:

    Matthew 17:1 AND after six days Jesus taketh unto him

    Peter and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart:

    THE FIRST ONE:

    Notice, John,

    In the beginning of this chapter indicated the double trinity in THE UNIQUE HUMAN FIGURE of Jesus THE MESSIAH, both aS SON OF MAN, and SON OF GOD !

    Simply in the NUMBER OF DAYS WHICH IS SIX

    Which it is the only true reason that he included that particular phrase:

    And after SIX days,

    and also the term:

    Jesus taketh unto him, followed by

    Peter, James and John which demonstrates BOTH THE HUMAN BEING!
    SON OF MAN!
    AND ADAM THEIR SINFUL FATHER.

    This is manifested in Genesis 1:26,27

    since it is on the SIXTH day that God

    MADE MAN and

    ALSO CREATED MAN a reference BOTH to the divine man Jesus, SON OF GOD, and to Adam, respectively! SON OF MAN, DEPICTED IN THE APOSTLES.

    This is also asserted in the difference of the verses, where in 26, a reference to the divinity of Jesus, SON OF GOD,

    God , MADE MAN, and declared that HE would have dominion over
    every creeping creature that moves upon the earth. A REFERENCE TO THE DEVILS!!!!

    But in 27, the ABOVE particular reference is not included, and also the word CREATED is used INSTEAD of MADE which is definitely a reference to the human being both of ADAM and also of Jesus!

    THIS CONFIRMS THE PARADOXICAL STATE OF JESUS,

    BOTH CREATED AND MADE, OBVIOUS SINCE WITHIN HIS SOUL, HE HAD SATAN’S SPIRIT, A CREATED BEING, AND AS

    “THE WORD” SON OF GOD HE WASN’T!

    THE SECOND ONE

    Notice how John introduced the apostles:

    PETER AND JAMES, and then he said AND JOHN! He should have written:
    Peter, James and John. THIS IS TYPICAL of JOHN to make us aware of certain LIGHT! So in this case he made us aware, that PETER AND JAMES REPRESENT THE HUMAN BODY IN:
    FLESH, depicted in PETER, and the SOUL depicted in JAMES!
    THEN JOHN ON HIS OWN! Which depicted the spirit!

    Also to notice that, JAMES AND JOHN WERE BROTHERS, A REFERENCE TO THEIR RELATION: SYMBOLICALLY SPIRITS

    So The above verse is the most common kind of trinity, which is a reference to the SINFULL HUMAN BEING.
    THE FACT THAT JOHN USED THE TERM:
    Jesus taketh unto him,

    THE THIRD ONE.

    2 And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow.
    3 And behold there appeared to them

    Moses and Elias talking with him.

    The above is RELATED TO THE MOST HIGH DIVINE TRINITY

    THE GODHEAD GLORIFIED IN THE MAN JESUS!

    JESUS represented THE FLESH “THE WORD MADE FLESH”

    MOSES represented THE SOUL BY “THE WORD”

    ELIJAH represented THE SPIRIT THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN “THE WORD” THE ONLY MEDIATOR SPIRIT.

    AGAIN ALSO IN THIS CASE, MOSES AND ELIJAH UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME, BOTH WERE THE GREATEST PROPHETS, AND THEY SIGNIFY THE SOUL AND THE SPIRIT RESPECTIVELY

    ELIJAH, prefigure THE SPIRIT,

    THE FACT THAT HE NEVER DIED, HE WENT TO HEAVEN ALIVE AS A HUMAN, ALTHOUGH HE WAS A HUMAN IN REALITY HE WAS ALSO A SPIRIT BEING! Elijah was never aware of this throughout his life!

    MOSES, prefigure THE SOUL,

    ALTHOUGH MOSES DIED, IN ACTUAL FACT HE DID SO, ONLY IN ORDER TO RESPECT THE CONCEPT THAT ALL SOULS DIED,
    ADAM, THE FIRST SOUL DIED, AND ALL HIS EVENTUAL DESCENDANTS ALSO DIED!

    TO NOTICE IS THE SIMILARITY BETWEEN JESUS AND MOSES WHICH IS OUTSTANDING THE FACT THAT THEY PREFIGURE THE HUMAN DIVINE BEING! IN SOUL AND FLESH!

    THIS IS ALSO INDICATED IN THE FACT,THAT MOSES GRAVE WAS NEVER FOUND! WHICH IS AN INDICATION THAT WHEN THE MESSIAH CAME MOSES CAME BACK TO LIFE. HE WAS ONLY ASLEEP!

    And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
    4 And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them.

    NOTICE AS PETER WAS STILL TALKING AND WANTED TO MAKE THREE SEPARATE TENTS,
    ONE CLOUD COVERED THEM,WHICH SIGNIFIES THAT ALTHOUGH THEY WERE THREE, THEY REPRESENTED THE UNITY OF THE TRINITY, THE GODHEAD AS ONE IN JESUS!

    CONFIRMED AGAIN IN GOD’S OWN WORDS:

    5 And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him.

    NOTICE,AFTER THE CLOUD COVERED THE THREE OF THEM,NOT WHEN JESUS WAS ON HIS OWN, OR THE CLOUD COVERED JESUS ONLY,

    GOD DECLARED AND SAID THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, OK?

    THE THREE OF THEM, IN ONE CLOUD, REPRESENTED

    THE SON OF GOD AS A DIVINE BEING IN

    SPIRIT, SOUL, AND FLESH!

    THE GODHEAD IN ITS GLORY!

    JESUS CHRIST!

    Now John ALSO emphasised the triune concept even in the THREE DIFFERENT EXAMPLES, NO MORE NO LESS!

    In verse ONE he showed us TWO TYPES

    THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF MAN! JESUS IN THE NUMBER SIX AND THE COMMON HUMAN BEINGS THROUGH ADAM! IN THE APOSTLES, PETER, JAMES, AND JOHN!

    THEN:
    From verse 2 onwards he MANIFESTED TO US,

    JESUS’ TRIUNE GLORIFICATION, OF THE GODHEAD!

    GOD MAN JESUS

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST. THE ONLY MANIFESTATION OF GOD ON EARTH!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #795623
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    ARE YOU IN A POSITION TO DETERMINE THE REASON WHY, SINCE YOU ARE IN CONFUSION REGARDING THE TRINITY DOCTRINE, and all what is related to it.

    No confusion whatsoever. I understand the Trinity Doctrine and hence the reason I do not believe it.

    For me, there is one God the Father, and One Lord the Lord Jesus Christ. He was made both Lord and Christ by God and to the glory of God the Father.

    #795624
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    YES the devil has his own trinity CONCEPT\

    If you have Trinity on the brain, then you can see Trinities everywhere you look. The same could be said for Binities. e.g., man and woman. Day and night. Negative and positive. This proves nothing.

    If the Trinity is a central doctrine because 3 are mentioned, then why not take these Trinities seriously?

    • 1 Timothy 5:21 says: “I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels”
    • Luke 9:28: about eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray.

    But seriously let’s look at some verses that mention what you would argue as the Trinity:

    • 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 mentions the Spirit, Lord, and God;
    • 2 Corinthians 13:14 lists Christ, God, and the Holy Ghost [Spirit];
    • Galatians 4:4-6 lists God, Son, and Spirit of his Son;
    • Ephesians 4:4-6 lists Spirit, Lord and, God; &
    • 1 Peter 1:2 lists God, Spirit, and Jesus Christ.

    Notice the above scriptures. Can you see the problem?

    God is already defined and is talking about the Father.

    #795626
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    As for the transfiguration, why do you not believe the clear testimony of the Father, when he said, “This is my beloved son”?

    Instead you focus on twisting the event to prove a Trinity?

    Your explanation is clouded.

    #795628
    kerwin
    Participant

    Carmel,

    The prevalent scientific story is that the universe was originally existed in infinitely small dimensions of space and then in one moment it underwent explosive growth of those dimensions and is still expanding to this day. That seems to be the idea you base your teaching on.

    I believe God created the universe and therefore has no need for any space. When Scriptures tells us the All-Powers created the heavens and the earth in the beginning I hear he created the earthly universe and the heavenly universes in the beginning.

    Scripture teaches us he created the earth and simply remains quiet on the rest of the universe.

    Scientists assume that things began at certain point but Scripture tells us that God chose not to do it that way. When God lit the stars on the Forth Night and Day they were all visible even though it takes a few years for light to travel from the sun nearest to ours, much less further away. This teaches us that theory of the primordial egg is based on a faulty assumption. That makes the whole argument unsound.

    #795677
    carmel
    Participant

     

    For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

    t8,

    REFLECT ON THE ABOVE STATEMENT BY PAUL:

    for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live;

    DEFINITION:

    FOR US THERE’S BUT ONE GOD,THE FATHER,

    What is the reason that Paul to make SURE that people would understand the truth, regarding the ALMIGHTY GOD didn’t say :

    THE ALMIGHTY GOD AND FATHER,!

    to stress the importance on the above PARTICULAR TITLE and confirms that he was referring IN THE TRUTH TO

    GOD ALMIGHTY???? ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    BUT instead He created WHAT LOOKS A DOUBT and he said:

    GOD, followed by a comma SO THE STRESS IS ONLY ON the title of GOD, and also separated from the title of FATHER in order to make us aware that he was not referring to just one TITLE only ALMIGHTY GOD, but to another particular GOD TITLE!

    Also to notice the article THE applied to FATHER!

    By using the title THE FATHER we would definitely become aware that GOD ALMIGHTY WAS NOT ALWAYS IN POSSESSION IN THE TRUTH OF THAT PARTICULAR TITLE! and also that from that moment on HE BECAME SO FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME!

    The fact that it was separated with a comma from the title GOD ALMIGHTY!

    SO OFFICIALLY GOD ALMIGHTY WAS NEVER YET DECLARED ON EARTH AMONG HUMANS IN GENERAL IN FLESH AND BLOOD AS

    THE FATHER, with the exception of the JEWS, and

    THE CONTEXT OF THAT PASSAGE IS RELATED TO THE GENTILES!

    AND PAUL WAS THE APOSTLE RESPONSIBLE FROM THE GENTILES TO PREACH TO THEM THE GOSPEL, ORDERED BY JESUS HIMSELF!

    THE FACT THAT PAUL SAID:

    FOR US, definitely as humans IN GENERAL, ESPECIALLY GENTILES!!!!!

    since GOD ALMIGHTY was ALWAYS

    FATHER only of SONS, AND JEWS AS HIS CHOSEN NATION!

    So Paul JUSTLY ESTABLISHED the OFFICIAL PERFECT reference both to

    GOD ALMIGHTY and TO HIS GLORIFICATION IN, and BY, HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ON EARTH AS

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    This is more asserted with the following CHARACTERISTICS mentioned by Paul after that particular title hereunder:

    from whom all things came and for whom we live;

    Reflect:

    FROM WHOM ALL THINGS CAME,

    The devil never came out from GOD ALMIGHTY!

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” THE SON AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT! Since he was the first born of ALL creatures!

    Adam never came out from GOD ALMIGHTY

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” THE SON AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT! since he was the first born of all creatures!

    Eve never came out from GOD ALMIGHTY!

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” THE SON AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT! since he was the first born of all creatures!

    THERE’S NO SPACE , AND TIME AVAILABLE TO LIST WHAT GOD ALMIGHTY CREATED IN, AND BY “THE WORD” THE SON, JESUS’ SPIRIT, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, BUT TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO PONDER READ HEREUNDER AND REFLECT VERY DEEP BEFORE YOU HAVE THE LEAST EAGERNESS TO ANSWER THIS POST, BECAUSE IT IS NOT MINE, BUT

    THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ME IS TALKING:

    JESUS as a human in flesh and blood, never came out from  GOD ALMIGHTY as such:

    BUT FROM JESUS, “THE WORD” AS A SPIRIT HE DID COME OUT!since he was the first born of all creatures!

    SO WHEN PAUL SAID:

    FOR US , THERE’S ONE GOD, THE FATHER,

    HE DEFINITELY never MEANT to refer to GOD ALMIGHTY ONLY IN THE TRUTH BUT TO:

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRST

    THE LAST DETAIL:

    the last bit of attribute which Paul allocated to

    GOD, THE FATHER, IS:

    through whom we live.

    Now reflect:

    IN ORDER TO BE ACCEPTED BY GOD ALMIGHTY,

    THROUGH WHOM WE ACTUALLY LIVE:

    NO DO NOT ANSWER I WILL DO IT FOR YOU SINCE WITH EVERY RESPECT,

    IT IS NOT ACCEPTED WITHIN YOUR UNDERSTANDING:

     

    THROUGH ” THE WORD” JESUS’ SPIRIT

    THE MOST POWERFUL SPIRIT

    JESUS CHRIST

    WITH WHOM THE FATHER IS WELL PLEASED TO ABIDE WITHIN!

    AND  ENRICHED HIMSELF WITH THE TITLE OF:

     

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

     

     

    Peace and love in Jesus
    Charles

    #795680
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    GOD, followed by a comma SO THE STRESS IS ONLY ON the title of GOD, and also separated from the title of FATHER in order to make us aware that he was not referring to just one TITLE only ALMIGHTY GOD, but to another particular GOD TITLE!

    So why not follow up with God the son then? Why say Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father?

    Why is it not written anywhere the terms God the Son or the Father of God?

    I believe what is written and clearly the one true God is the Father. Jesus said it himself so clearly that the only way to get around it is to deny what he said and call him a liar or to say that the translation is not correct.

    John 17:3 (English-NIV)
    Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    1 Corinthians 11:3 (English-NIV)
    Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

    1 Corinthians 3:22-23 (English-NIV)
    22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas {That is, Peter} or the world or life or death or the present or the future all are yours,
    23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God…

    Ephesians 4:4-6 (English-NIV)
    4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
    5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
    6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

    John 20:17 (English-NIV)
    Jesus said, Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,
    `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

    Romans 15:6 (English-NIV)
    so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    2 Corinthians 1:3 (English-NIV)
    Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

    Revelation 1:1 (English-NIV)
    The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
    He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

    And what are you going to do about all the other scriptures that talk about God as exclusively the Father.

    You have to ignore hundreds of scriptures. Best to believe all scripture is it not?

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