The Kalam Cosmological Argument

This topic has 50 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 6 months ago by Proclaimer.

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November 3, 2013 at 3:02 am#777163
Anonymous
Inactive
wilsun
yes ,Christ /the WORD /the only begotten son/ are a true expression of who his the son ;the first and only direct creation of God ,that came down from heaven to save men from his sins and the curse of Adam sin (dead)it could not be any other way ,for the only reason scriptures says
PS 49:7 No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—
the Christ had to be from outside the earth ,
the true reason to bring forth the name in which we can address God has Father gives the true feeling of how we should perceive our creator ,HAS A VERY CLOSE FAMILY MEMBER THAT WE CAN LOVE WITH ALL OUR HEART,
November 9, 2013 at 10:32 am#777164
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Keymaster
The Signs of God’s Existence – Documentary [Full Length]
November 27, 2013 at 11:19 am#777165
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December 23, 2013 at 11:07 am#777167
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Keymaster
December 24, 2013 at 4:43 am#777168
Anastas
Guest
The Son is the Word that proceeds from God’s mouth. In the instant God chose to speak to express who he was, at that point the Word existed and we could know God and who he is from that Word. Now I would say the Word did have a beginning seeing as Christ is the “power of God, and the wisdom of God”. 1Cor 1:24 And knowing Christ is the wisdom of God we can then read in Proverbs 8:12-36 that wisdom had a beginning. And the similarities of this passage of wisdom to Christ are undeniable, from how God created through wisdom/christ and how God delighted in him to how it says of wisdom “whoso findeth me findeth life”.
Now Christ exists in the form of God because he shows God. That is why the Christ is the image of God, because it is through God’s Word that we may know Him. That is also how the Son is the only begotten Son. Whereas, all creation was created through the Word of God, the Word of God proceeded directly from God by His own will and His own means being outside of creation and God’s first act. In hebrews 1:3 it calls Christ the “image of His substance”. God is a spirit and the author or mind and the Word brings this mind to light by relaying His thoughts to us in a way we can, somewhat, comprehend.
December 24, 2013 at 4:45 am#777169
Anastas
Guest
The Son is the Word that proceeds from God’s mouth. In the instant God chose to speak to express who he was, at that point the Word existed and we could know God and who he is from that Word. Now I would say the Word did have a beginning seeing as Christ is the “power of God, and the wisdom of God”. 1Cor 1:24 And knowing Christ is the wisdom of God we can then read in Proverbs 8:12-36 that wisdom had a beginning. And the similarities of this passage of wisdom to Christ are undeniable, from how God created through wisdom/christ and how God delighted in him to how it says of wisdom “whoso findeth me findeth life”.
Now Christ exists in the form of God because he shows God. That is why the Christ is the image of God, because it is through God’s Word that we may know Him. That is also how the Son is the only begotten Son. Whereas, all creation was created through the Word of God, the Word of God proceeded directly from God by His own will and His own means being outside of creation and God’s first act. In hebrews 1:3 it calls Christ the “image of His substance”. God is a spirit and the author or mind and the Word brings this mind to light by relaying His thoughts to us in a way we can, somewhat, comprehend.
December 24, 2013 at 11:14 am#777170
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Keymaster
Some good points in there Anastas.
🙂
May 5, 2014 at 11:14 am#777171
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Keymaster
May 20, 2015 at 6:20 pm#798023
Proclaimer
Participant
The universe either formed because of intelligence and design, or non-intelligence which itself is either something non-living but eternal or nothing at all. If it was nothing, then there would be nothing now. If nothing can do something, then it was something all along. The something has to be eternal, otherwise it was preceded by nothing. The eternal something has to have the ingredients of the universe it spawned such as the source of law, life, intelligence, and energy, Otherwise these ingredients came from nothing which we know is impossible by its very definition. That leaves us with an eternal something that gives laws, has the seed of life, has intelligence, and the ability to design using energy etc. I don’t know about you, but this is starting to sound like God to me.
September 13, 2015 at 9:54 pm#802962
Proclaimer
Participant
September 14, 2015 at 4:46 am#802963
kerwin
Participant
t8,
I do believe the religion of Science does teach the universe is eternal though at one time it approached a size of 0 but never actually was that size. The talk about the “Big Bang” is the first noticeable growth of the universe not the actual first growth which scientist have clue of when it occurred according to their doctrine.
Their doctrine is constantly evolving and it has multiple sects.
September 14, 2015 at 9:29 am#802965
Proclaimer
Participant
Science has taught that the universe had a beginning at the Big Bang for some decades now. I know that these days, many scientists question that because a beginning points to a beginner. So there have been some theories of late that state that the universe is eternal and our Big Bang is but one fluctuation in an eternal construct of some kind.
The construct that the universe is but one bubble among many has been called a Multiverse. It was the discovery that the cosmological constant was so exact that got scientists taking the Multiverse seriously. That is because it is so precisely tuned that the odds of it being tuned this way to create the universe outnumbers all the atoms in the universe. So rather than admit to a creator, the Multiverse was the best way to explain the finely tuned universe without a creator. In other words, there are an infinite amount of universes with one or more being tuned in such as way as to create a universe with galaxies, stars, planets, and life. So no miracle needed. Before the discovery of the cosmological constant, the Multiverse was just a wild theory among many and not taken seriously. When it became the only way to explain the universe without a creator, it gained acceptance.
September 16, 2015 at 10:22 pm#803001
princess
Participant
the only hole in the theory is that every sect/cult claims they have chosen wisely and worship the true god. so what do you do, spin the wheel of gods and whichever it lands on you take. the Jewish god, the Islamic god, the Christian god, the India god, the African god.
mankind has come so far that we now can explain everything to an extant not to it fullest though we just guess and fill in the blanks with our own assumptions which is not limited to what/who/why/when/where god is.

September 17, 2015 at 12:45 am#803002
terraricca
Participant
which of those gods make you not a slave ? which of those gods make you wise ? which of those gods make you to become a better informed person ?
which of those gods will save you of death ? which of those gods in fact look after us all has a father ? which of those gods in fact speaks the truth ?
if you answer those questions truthfully you have to eliminate any god but the true one
September 17, 2015 at 6:46 am#803007
kerwin
Participant
Princess,
Those that hunger and thirst for righteousness look for the God that will fill them.
September 17, 2015 at 12:11 pm#803013
princess
Participant
which of those gods make you not a slave ?
idk

which of those gods make you wise ?
wisdom is not what everyone makes it out to be.

which of those gods make you to become a better informed person ?
seeking such has taken me where I never thought I would be

which of those gods will save you of death ?
I’m going to die T, mankind has always quenched for the afterlife.

which of those gods in fact look after us all has a father ?
Jesus is not god T. That would go against the first commandment.

which of those gods in fact speaks the truth ?
truth is not contained in one book

if you answer those questions truthfully you have to eliminate any god but the true one
still searching T. thank you though 🙂

September 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm#803015
princess
Participant
thanks Kerwin 😉
September 17, 2015 at 12:35 pm#803016
Proclaimer
Participant
the only hole in the theory is that every sect/cult claims they have chosen wisely and worship the true god. so what do you do, spin the wheel of gods and whichever it lands on you take. the Jewish god, the Islamic god, the Christian god, the India god, the African god.
Not so. The options is not about who God is, but that there is a God. That is all it does.
Atheists make the argument that God cannot exist because men differ over who God is. That is total rubbish and a foolish argument.
If scientists agreed in the existence of aliens, but speculated about what they are like or look like, their differences would have absolutely nothing at all to do with the existence of aliens themselves. It would only mean that they agree to their existence, but do not know what they are like.
Similarly, most of mankind know there is a God, but they differ on who that God is and what that God is like. This has no bearing whatsoever on the existence of God. How could it? It only agrees with what the Bible has said all along, i.e., that men should know God, but many do not know him for reasons of their own doing. Thus they argue over their religious differences proving that some do not know this God, rather they have instead a religion that is more cultural than anything.
Does not the Bible teach that there is a God and that man has been alienated from God? Well then, this has no bearing on the existence of God does it.
September 17, 2015 at 1:15 pm#803019
terraricca
Participant
if you believe there is a God ? so what the devil and demons also know that and tremble ;religion knows that there is a God but it does not lead the people to it ,
like Jesus said “you don’t enter but you prevent those that want to enter to not entering it ,” if you know something to be sure and true in your mind and love it in your heart I am sure you find a way to get it ,this is how I got the spouse ,and I also got the truth of God in a similar way,
September 17, 2015 at 2:27 pm#803022
Proclaimer
Participant
Yes you have to seek. But too many people put up useless arguments as excuses to not seek.
Dear Atheist, do not be lazy. Seek God. These arguments against God’s existence are pathetic.
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