Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • #315094
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,20:07)
    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.


    Kerwin……….Amen Amen, This is absolutely right brother. But all those who try desperately to Separate Jesus identity with humanity will never accept it. Jesus is the root and offspring of King David and Jesse, Just as he said he was. No need to twist scriptures to mean something else as many false Trinitarians who ARE Preexistences teachers do here. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………….gene

    #315103
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,03:07)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35)
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    John 1:12-13
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.

    Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.

    Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.

    Mark 14:36
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”


    Kerwin

    Quote
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    ???  :(


    T,

    I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.


    Kerwin

    but you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

    so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.

    #315113
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 06 2012,20:28)
    All things were created by God alone – because of Jesus' crucifixion.


    Sorry Ed, but those words don't make a lick of sense to me.  It sounds as if you're saying Jesus WAS crucified, and BECAUSE OF his crucifixion, God SUBSEQUENTLY created all things.  ???

    Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 06 2012,20:28)
    Jesus was (according to you) an angel in his preexistant state,
    But there are many verses of Scripture that discount this idea.


    Jesus was a spirit son of God when God created him as the “first of His works”.  In English, we tend to call spiritual messengers of God “angels”………… but the Hebrew and Greek words we translate as “angels” both just mean “messenger”.

    So you have to ask yourself:  
    1.  Was Jesus ever a human messenger of his God?
    2.  Was Jesus ever a spirit messenger of his God?

    The answer to both is “YES”.  Ed, whenever you read those verses that you think say Jesus is not an “angel”, read them with the word “messenger” instead of the English word “angel”.  It may help you to see the truth of the matter.

    But back to Hebrews 1:2………………

    Ed, Paul says God has in these last days spoken to us through His Son Jesus, right?  Now, did God actually speak to them through his LITERAL Son, Jesus?  Of course He did.

    Why then shouldn't we also take the teaching that God created the ages through his Son to mean that God created the ages through His LITERAL Son, Jesus?

    Why would anyone understand it differently than the way it is written – if not for some personal, biased reason?

    #315115
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,12:33)
    Kerwin

    but you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

    so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.


    That's correct, Pierre.

    And like I just said to Ed, why would anyone understand Col 1:15-16 any differently than the way it is written – if not for some personal, biased reason?

    #315122
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2012,00:33)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,03:07)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35)
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    John 1:12-13
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.

    Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.

    Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.

    Mark 14:36
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”


    Kerwin

    Quote
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    ???  :(


    T,

    I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.


    Kerwin

    but you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

    so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.


    T,

    Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus but that they were created through Jesus.  That idea of yours introduces a time paradox to your teaching; but that confusion does not seem to bother your soul as much as excepting that Jesus is a human with a strong and perfect faith.

    As for me Jesus is the Heir of all creation for through faith in his name all things are created anew, the ages established; and through his Spirit all things were created.

    #315124
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 07 2012,08:31)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 07 2012,09:05)

    Kerwin………You are right apsolutly right. The man Jesus is the one God was speaking of , he is the heir of his   father king David's throne. Jesus plainly said he was the root and offspring of king David. No matter how hard these deceived separatist   Try to separate Jesus' human identity with his human Father and us they Can't , without destroying the integrity of our scriptures.  IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene


    Hi Gene,

    Jesus didn't have a human father.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Ed J.

    I think Gene was speaking of David as father of Jesus' bloodline.

    #315134
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,14:40)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2012,00:33)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2012,03:07)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35)
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    John 1:12-13
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.

    Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.

    Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.

    Mark 14:36
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”


    Kerwin

    Quote
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    ???  :(


    T,

    I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.


    Kerwin

    but you are mistaken ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

    so as you can see Christ his the ROOT of Jesse after all.


    T,

    Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus but that they were created through Jesus.  That idea of yours introduces a time paradox to your teaching; but that confusion does not seem to bother your soul as much as excepting that Jesus is a human with a strong and perfect faith.

    and through his SpiritAs for me Jesus is the Heir of all creation for through faith in his name all things are created anew, the ages established; all things were created.


    Kerwin

    how many scriptures do you have to deny to put forward your lie???

    #315137
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    What lie do you think you spot?

    #315138
    terraricca
    Participant

    kerwin

    Quote
    T,

    Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus but that they were created through Jesus. That idea of yours introduces a time paradox to your teaching; but that confusion does not seem to bother your soul as much as excepting that Jesus is a human with a strong and perfect faith.

    As for me Jesus is the Heir of all creation for through faith in his name all things are created anew, the ages established; and through his Spirit all things were created.

    Quote
    Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus

    first I did not claim this ; scriptures says that Christ his the root of Jesse who his the father of David,and so scriptures are true in saying that Christ comes before Jesse because he existed before Jesse,

    the fact that you do not believe in the pre existence of Christ has the son of God and as God first creation does not make untrue,scriptures shows that he did pre existed his coming as a human,

    also Jesus Christ his a real person and being ,his soul is true and righteous and comes from the father ,in heaven he his a spirit being just like all who lives there,

    you are confusing the idea and the person of Christ

    #315148
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    I believe you missed the “not” in my statement that “Your claim is not that Jesse and David are decedents of Jesus…”.

    You claim that Jesus is the root(means through whom specified individuals are created) of Jesse and David and without him they would not have been created.

    You believe Mary is a surrogate mother for Jesus, an angel, who manifested the body of a conceptus, entered her womb, and was born of her.

    This does take care of the time paradox by denying Jesus is the offspring of David; but only introduce another contradiction.

    Contradictory you believe Jesus is a offspring of David.

    I am claiming that Jesus is a human being, the chief descendant of both David and Adam, that has been given the Spirit of the Son; by and through which all things were made. In addition Jesus is the chief inheritor of all things in heaven and on earth and the way by which they are all perfected.

    David faith is revealed to be his root as he believes God's promise of the Christ.  

    There are no contradictions in what I believe.

    #315152
    terraricca
    Participant

    kerwin

    Quote
    an angel, who manifested the body of a conceptus, entered her womb, and was born of her.

    no kerwin that is not what I said or beleive ,why do you think that God holy spirit (Gods power) as been part of making Christ ???

    Quote
    I am claiming that Jesus is a human being, the chief descendant of both David and Adam, that has been given the Spirit of the Son; by and through which all things were made. In addition Jesus is the chief inheritor of all things in heaven and on earth and the way by which they are all perfected.

    what you are saying is that all thing were created through an idea ,the idea to be Christ ??? this is folly NO SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING THIS .

    you say Christ his a normal man but how could he be his father his God ,and God did not make a new creation ,one more thing NO MAN BORN OF MAN CAN SAVE MEN FROM HIS SINS,

    Quote
    This does take care of the time paradox by denying Jesus is the offspring of David; but only introduce another contradiction

    there is no contradiction ,because through Mary and Joseph his step father Christ is the offspring of David,read the scriptures,

    Quote
    David faith is revealed to be his root as he believes God's promise of the Christ

    not his faith but his heart ,but David was a sinner Christ was not

    #315183
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To All………….Saying Jesus is the root from which Jesse and David came is a total LIE and corruption of scriptures. Jesus is (the Root), “OF” or (FROM) Jesse and King David, He is also the Offspring of them both. Any half intelligent person can understand that. Trinitarians and preexistences have to twist up that understanding in order to deny Jesus' complete Humanity.

    They can not believe GOD took a Purely Human Being and Perfected Him, and raised him from the grave, which shows God's work in Humanity, they by this deny God's Glory for his work in Christ Jesus. These Trinitarians and Preexistences are totally corrupted in their false teachings of the word of God, and they never stop twisting up and corrupting his word. They are the Blind leading the Blind and are both in a ditch grouping at the walls falsehood.

    peace and love to you all…………………………………………..gene

    #315196
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 09 2012,07:50)
    To All………….Saying Jesus is the root from which Jesse and David came is a total LIE and corruption of scriptures.  Jesus is  (the Root), “OF” or (FROM)  Jesse and King David, He is also the Offspring of them both. Any half intelligent person can understand that.  Trinitarians and preexistences have to twist up that understanding in order to deny Jesus' complete Humanity.  

    They can not believe GOD took a Purely Human Being and Perfected Him, and raised him from the grave, which shows God's work in Humanity, they by this deny God's Glory for his work in Christ Jesus.  These Trinitarians and Preexistences are totally corrupted in their false teachings of the word of God, and they never stop twisting up and corrupting his word.  They are the Blind leading the Blind and are both in a ditch grouping at the walls falsehood.  

    peace and love to you all…………………………………………..gene


    g

    please explain how can a man born of man be pure IN THE EYES OF GOD???

    please do not be a religeous liar and say IT IS A MYSTERY :D :D

    #315235
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2012,08:37)
    kerwin

    Quote
    an angel, who manifested the body of a conceptus, entered her womb, and was born of her.

    no kerwin that is not what I said or believe ,why do you think that God holy spirit (Gods power) as been part of making Christ ???

    Quote
    I am claiming that Jesus is a human being, the chief descendant of both David and Adam, that has been given the Spirit of the Son; by and through which all things were made. In addition Jesus is the chief inheritor of all things in heaven and on earth and the way by which they are all perfected.

    what you are saying is that all thing were created through an idea ,the idea to be Christ ??? this is folly NO SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING THIS .

    you say Christ his a normal man but how could he be his father his God ,and God did not make a new creation ,one more thing NO MAN BORN OF MAN CAN SAVE MEN FROM HIS SINS,

    Quote
    This does take care of the time paradox by denying Jesus is the offspring of David; but only introduce another contradiction

    there is no contradiction ,because through Mary and Joseph his step father Christ is the offspring of David,read the scriptures,

    Quote
    David faith is revealed to be his root as he believes God's promise of the Christ

    not his faith but his heart ,but David was a sinner Christ was not


    T,

    Please correct my misunderstandings about your beliefs.  

    I may have used words that are rarely used, therefore hard to understand.  If so then please let me know.

    I believe one aspect of God's Spirit is Jehovah's creative force; which is why it moved upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2.

    Therefore Jesus was conceived in Mary by God's creative force.

    The Spirit of the Son is the Spirit of the Christ is the Spirit of the God is the the Holy Spirit as there is only one Spirit in the unity of the Spirit.

    A man born of humanity is the only one who can save humanity from sin which is why it is necessary that the Christ share in his siblings humanity.  
    * With his death Jesus revealed this world is unjust as he earned the wages of sin though he did not sin.
    * With his life Jesus revealed that a human being can overcome sin by the power of Jehovah through faith; even though tempted as is common to man.
    * With his resurrection he revealed that God would not leave his holy humans in Sheol.
    * With his ascension he revealed that Jehovah rewards those humans that seek him.

    You claim is that adoption qualifies as being born of the seed of David.  It is possible though that is not the impression I received upon hearing Jehovah's promise to David.

    #315244
    terraricca
    Participant

    k

    Quote
    The Spirit of the Son is the Spirit of the Christ is the Spirit of the God is the the Holy Spirit as there is only one Spirit in the unity of the Spirit.

    how can anyone understand this ????

    #315245
    terraricca
    Participant

    k

    Quote
    You claim is that adoption qualifies as being born of the seed of David. It is possible though that is not the impression I received upon hearing Jehovah's promise to David.

    yes adoption in Israel was just as right as a legitim child

    #315247
    terraricca
    Participant

    k

    Quote
    * With his life Jesus revealed that a human being can overcome sin by the power of Jehovah through faith; even though tempted as is common to man.

    you do not believe in scriptures right ??? that is why you do not beleive in them ,

    NO MAN BORN OF MAN CAN CLAIM THAT HE DOES NOT SIN OR HE IS WITHOUT SIN ,EVEN IF HE HIS A ;PROPHET,A SAINT,OR MOSES HIMSELF

    #315248
    terraricca
    Participant

    K

    Quote
    I believe one aspect of God's Spirit is Jehovah's creative force; which is why it moved upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2.

    DO ,I CARE OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE ? NO,;;SHOW ME IN SCRIPTURES ;;;IS GOD DIVIDED ???

    #315249
    terraricca
    Participant

    K

    Quote
    I may have used words that are rarely used, therefore hard to understand. If so then please let me know.

    USELESS COMMENT

    #315280
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 09 2012,12:04)
    k

    Quote
    The Spirit of the Son is the Spirit of the Christ is the Spirit of the God is the the Holy Spirit as there is only one Spirit in the unity of the Spirit.

    how can anyone understand this ????


    Hi Pierre,

    The “Spirit of Christ” is of God.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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