Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • #314400
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2012,16:53)
    our difference is only in what I said that the spirit that return to God his our soul ,because the soul his the spirit part of us


    What about the spirit that made Adam a living soul. Was not that spirit given by God that resulted in him having a living soul.

    Also, it is written somewhere that we know we are the sons of God when our spirit is one with his spirit. So this is either the spirit of man or soul. Perhaps the same thing. Regardless, it defines 2 spirits. Our one and God's one. This is how we are one with God.

    #314401
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Oct. 03 2012,16:51)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2012,16:53)
    our difference is only in what I said that the spirit that return to God his our soul ,because the soul his the spirit part of us


    What about the spirit that made Adam a living soul. Was not that spirit given by God that resulted in him having a living soul.

    Also, it is written somewhere that we know we are the sons of God when our spirit is one with his spirit. So this is either the spirit of man or soul. Perhaps the same thing. Regardless, it defines 2 spirits. Our one and God's one. This is how we are one with God.


    T8,

    We are instructed to walk according to the spirit. The Spirit that we are instructed to walk by is neither the soul, as you do not walk by the soul, nor is it the on man walks by, as man falls short of the glory of God. I do not see a spirit short of God's glory returning to Jehovah as did not come from him. Our souls did.

    #314402
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Oct. 04 2012,04:51)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2012,16:53)
    our difference is only in what I said that the spirit that return to God his our soul ,because the soul his the spirit part of us


    What about the spirit that made Adam a living soul. Was not that spirit given by God that resulted in him having a living soul.

    Also, it is written somewhere that we know we are the sons of God when our spirit is one with his spirit. So this is either the spirit of man or soul. Perhaps the same thing. Regardless, it defines 2 spirits. Our one and God's one. This is how we are one with God.


    t8

    Ge 1:30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it

    Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and .breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being

    their is no spirit ,but breath given through his nostrils ,what mean to me is that wen God was finish to make Adam ,the only thing missing was the ability to breath,this is been repeated at every birth ,NO ??? yes.

    MT 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

    Mt 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
    Mt 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
    Mt 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
    Mt 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light.
    Mt 6:23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
    Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

    so if we do not make our heart and soul (store container)with godly wealth we would have nothing at all to be saved

    #314596
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (t8 @ Oct. 03 2012,04:45)
    I too believe the soul remains after death however, I am open to them being alive in the sense that the souls under the altar of God were told to rest a little longer after they inquired of YHWH when he would avenge their split blood.


    I believe that these souls under the alter are those about whom Jesus said, “not all will taste death before the Son of Man comes in his glory”.

    The angel explains to John that these are the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

    In my understanding, certain people DO go to heaven when they die – but only those who are killed explicitely for maintaining the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

    (There were also two OT instances of men being taken directly to heaven, without the stopover in Sheol……….. Enoch and Elijah.)

    All others are said to “sleep”, or “rest” with their fathers in Sheol/Hades until the resurrection.  I believe that when Samuel asks this question…………..

    1 Samuel 28:15
    Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

    …………. he is talking about being awakened from his sleep.  The translators of the Bible in Basis English apparently agree, for they render it as, Why have you made me come up, troubling my rest?

    Anyway, this is how I understand it.

    #314668
    terraricca
    Participant

    all

    Judges 13:16-18
    16 The angel of the LORD said to Manoah, “Though you detain me, I will not eat your food, but if you prepare a burnt offering, then offer it to the LORD.” For Manoah did not know that he was the angel of the LORD.
    17 Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, “What is your name, so that when your words come to pass, we may honor you?”
    18 But the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?”

    Isaiah 9:6
    For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
    And the government will rest on His shoulders;
    And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

    Pr 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
    Pr 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
    Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
    Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was

    Christ his the son of God from the very beginning right ???

    #314724
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Yep.  From the instant his God created him before the ages, he has been the Son of God.

    #314821
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2012,10:25)
    Yep.  From the instant his God created him before the ages, he has been the Son of God.


    Hi Mike,

    I personally don't care if you believe that,
    but can you show me the scriptures that
    caused you to come to this conclusion?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #314834
    kerwin
    Participant

    Pierre,

    Wonderful in Judges is a translated from a different word than wonderful in Isaiah. They are similar with both having the same word origin.

    Some translations translate the word in judges to “secret” instead of “wonderful”

    #314873
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,02:45)
    Pierre,

    Wonderful in Judges is a translated from a different word than wonderful in Isaiah.  They are similar with both having the same word origin.

    Some translations translate the word in judges to “secret” instead of “wonderful”


    kerwin

    in both cases Christ will be justified and have the glory to be who he says he his.

    #314899
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2012,22:53)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,02:45)
    Pierre,

    Wonderful in Judges is a translated from a different word than wonderful in Isaiah.  They are similar with both having the same word origin.

    Some translations translate the word in judges to “secret” instead of “wonderful”


    kerwin

    in both cases Christ will be justified and have the glory to be who he says he his.


    T,

    The angel is not declaring himself to be the Wonderful Councilor that is to come but instead that his name was “too wonderful to be understood”.  That is why some, even among Trinitarians, translate it secret or incomprehensible.  

    Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Jehovah just as his father David is a christ, a son of God; a child of Israel.

    2 Samuel 7
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    v12 When your days come to an end and you sleep with your ancestors, I will establish one of your descendants to succeed you, one of your own flesh and blood; and I will set up his rulership. 13 He will build a house for my name, and I will establish his royal throne forever. 14 I will be a father for him, and he will be a son for me. If he does something wrong, I will punish him with a rod and blows, just as everyone gets punished; 15 nevertheless, my grace will not leave him, as I took it away from Sha’ul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Thus your house and your kingdom will be made secure forever before you; your throne will be set up forever.’” 17 Natan told David all of these words and described this entire vision.

    This passage teaches us the Christ is a descendant of David and that Jehovah is a Father to him and that Jesus is a Son to him.

    You seem not to comprehend that a human being has a father of the flesh and a father of the spirit.

    #314900
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,14:07)

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2012,22:53)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,02:45)
    Pierre,

    Wonderful in Judges is a translated from a different word than wonderful in Isaiah.  They are similar with both having the same word origin.

    Some translations translate the word in judges to “secret” instead of “wonderful”


    kerwin

    in both cases Christ will be justified and have the glory to be who he says he his.


    T,

    The angel is not declaring himself to be the Wonderful Councilor that is to come but instead that his name was “too wonderful to be understood”.  That is why some, even among Trinitarians, translate it secret or incomprehensible.  

    Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Jehovah just as his father David is a christ, a son of God; a child of Israel.

    2 Samuel 7
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    v12 When your days come to an end and you sleep with your ancestors, I will establish one of your descendants to succeed you, one of your own flesh and blood; and I will set up his rulership. 13 He will build a house for my name, and I will establish his royal throne forever. 14 I will be a father for him, and he will be a son for me. If he does something wrong, I will punish him with a rod and blows, just as everyone gets punished; 15 nevertheless, my grace will not leave him, as I took it away from Sha’ul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Thus your house and your kingdom will be made secure forever before you; your throne will be set up forever.’” 17 Natan told David all of these words and described this entire vision.

    This passage teaches us the Christ is a descendant of David and that Jehovah is a Father to him and that Jesus is a Son to him.

    You seem not to comprehend that a human being has a father of the flesh and a father of the spirit.


    kerwin

    Quote
    You seem not to comprehend that a human being has a father of the flesh and a father of the spirit.

    being born of the will of men ;is being born in the flesh,

    being born of the spirit ;means your father his God and so nothing to do with the flesh,

    Christ is born (or created by the father for the father )their is no flesh,no will of men ;

    wen Christ was conceived it was not by the will of the flesh but by the will of God so his father is God and as so nothing to do with men .

    all connection to the flesh are but allegories ,or part of what it takes to fulfill Gods will.

    #314903
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed,

    All things, whether invisible things in heaven, or visible things on earth, were created through God's only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.  (Heb 1:2, Col 1:16)

    The word in Heb 1:2 is “ages”, Ed. If the “ages” were created through God's Son Jesus Christ, then he must have been God's Son Jesus Christ BEFORE the “ages” were created through him, right?

    #314904
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2012,14:07)
    This passage teaches us the Christ is a descendant of David and that Jehovah is a Father to him and that Jesus is a Son to him.


    It is true that we are taught that Christ is the Branch of David/Jesse. BUT………………. we are ALSO taught that Christ is the ROOT of David/Jesse.

    For personal reasons, Kerwin only accepts one of these two teachings.

    #314910
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Kerwin………You are right apsolutly right. The man Jesus is the one God was speaking of , he is the heir of his father king David's throne. Jesus plainly said he was the root and offspring of king David. No matter how hard these deceived separatist Try to separate Jesus' human identity with his human Father and us they Can't , without destroying the integrity of our scriptures. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

    #314917
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote
    For personal reasons, Kerwin only accepts one of these two teachings

    it is hard to some to subject themself to the word of God,and so be saved ,

    #314954
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and neither David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.

    John 1:12-13
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.

    Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.

    Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.

    Mark 14:36
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”

    Note:Correction made underlined text.

    #314956
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35)
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    John 1:12-13
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.

    Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.

    Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.

    Mark 14:36
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”


    Kerwin

    Quote
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    ??? :(

    #314958
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2012,07:59)
    Ed,

    All things, whether invisible things in heaven, or visible things on earth, were created through God's only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.  (Heb 1:2, Col 1:16)  

    The word in Heb 1:2 is “ages”, Ed.  If the “ages” were created through God's Son Jesus Christ, then he must have been God's Son Jesus Christ BEFORE the “ages” were created through him, right?


    Hi Mike,

    I do understand how you are putting the pieces together, but I
    don't see it that way at all. Here is how I put the pieces together:
    All things were created by God alone – because of Jesus' crucifixion.

    I believe that the spirit of Christ was part of God
    before he was born, and God was part of him at his birth.

    Jesus was (according to you) an angel in his preexistant state,
    But there are many verses of Scripture that discount this idea.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #314959
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 07 2012,09:05)

    Kerwin………You are right apsolutly right. The man Jesus is the one God was speaking of , he is the heir of his   father king David's throne. Jesus plainly said he was the root and offspring of king David. No matter how hard these deceived separatist   Try to separate Jesus' human identity with his human Father and us they Can't , without destroying the integrity of our scriptures.  IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene


    Hi Gene,

    Jesus didn't have a human father.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #315065
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,08:20)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2012,19:35)
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    John 1:12-13
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    12 But to as many as did receive him, to those who put their trust in his person and power, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 not because of bloodline, physical impulse or human intention, but because of God.

    Jesus was indeed conceived miraculously and so not of a physical impulse or human intention but he is of the bloodline of David.

    Jesus was born of the Spirit of the Son that compelled him to cry Abba, Father.

    Mark 14:36
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    36 “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”) “All things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me! Still, not what I want, but what you want.”


    Kerwin

    Quote
    T,

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David is not a descendant of David or Jesse.

    ???  :(


    T,

    I did misspeak as what I intended to write is:

    Jehovah is not created and so has no bloodline.

    Jesus is of David's bloodline and David nor Jesse are a descendant of Jesus.

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