Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • #309730
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,12:02)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,11:14)
    1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
    The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.”


    Btw Wakeup, in verse 13, the medium actually says, “I see a god (elohim) coming up out of the ground.”


    so she did not know who she saw ,right ??

    #309731
    terraricca
    Participant

    Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

    remember that the air we breathing is the start of live into the world not in the womb,when we lose the ability to breath we die,but what remains is the flesh that will turn back into dust and the Soul that only God can destroy ,if this action is taken by God then we realy do not exist any more ,no trace of us will remain ,this is what goes back to God because this is what we received at birth

    #309732
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 18 2012,14:31)
    That which returns to God is not the spirit as in the one that can be lived by.


    What does that mean, Kerwin? Do we have TWO spirits? What scripture tells us this?

    #309733
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 18 2012,14:58)
    Jesus teaches us of Sheol/Hades and the rich man knows torment while Lazarus knows pleasure.  The rich man knows he has brothers and of Lazarus.  So in the parable the dead have knowledge.

    How do these two Scriptures go together?


    I had this discussion once with Istari.  It is MY understanding that the story of Abraham and Lazarus was simply a STORY to illustrate the importance of helping those less fortunate than yourself.  It follows these teachings from Jesus:

    Luke 6
    21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
      for you will be satisfied.

    25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
      for you will go hungry.

    Matthew 25
    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat………..

    Taken literally, the two teachings seem to contradict each other.  This is how I've “solved” this contradiction in my mind.  Perhaps I'm wrong?

    #309735
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,14:45)
    does all men carry the same spirit  and is that same spirit that goes back to God who gived it  I believe that it is the SOUL that we receive but when it goes back ,it is filled with what we have done and so can be judge accordingly,


    I too believe the soul remains “filled with what we have done”, as you put it.  I just don't believe it is the SOUL that goes back to God.

    The way I understand it, the spirit (the electricity that runs the computer) goes back to God.

    The soul (the hard drive filled with our memories of our life) goes to Sheol to await a wakening on the final day of judgment.  There is no electricity (spirit) getting to the hard drive while it is in Sheol, so it is like an unplugged computer that knows nothing and can do nothing.

    And our body (the outer case of the computer) simply decays.

    The electricity (spirit) is a gift from God, and is neither good nor evil, but only animates us.  This will not be judged, but just goes back to God when we die.

    The hard drive (our soul) is where God can find out if we used the internet to find ways to give to others, or to watch porn.  THIS is the part of us that will be judged.

    The flesh counts for nothing, as Jesus said, and simply decays.

    Pierre, our difference is that you see the thing that goes back to God as the part that is “filled with what we have done”.  I don't.  I see that part as the soul which goes to Sheol to await judgment at a later time.

    #309736
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,16:21)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,12:00)
    And where do you think those men and women get those powers, Pierre?  By what power did the medium raise Samuel from his sleep?  By what power did the Egyptian priests turn staffs into snakes and water into blood?


    Mike

    the DEMONs  ,Saul was abandon by God and even ad the evil spirit give him an hard time,only when David play music did it calm down,

    when God leave you ,it means you have used up all your credit,and so become fair play for the devil,and his gang


    That is also how I see it, Pierre. So it wasn't really the human woman who had the power to raise Samuel, but the demons with whom she made contact.

    It wasn't really the Egyptian priests who turned water into blood, but the Egyptian gods (demons) that they worshipped. That is why God not only punished the Egyptians during the exodus, but their gods as well. (Exodus 12:12)

    My original point remains that the soul of Samuel was fast asleep in Sheol, awaiting judgment, when that demon woke him up.

    #309737
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,16:26)
    but the SOUL that his were God send them are still in ignorance because they do not have a body ,and what is it that it knows or does it is like a hardrive in a boxe on a shelve ,waiting to be in use again.in the box or on the shelve the drive does not lose any of his info,right ??yes


    That is correct, IMO. But it seems you confuse the hard drive, which is boxed on a shelf in Sheol, awaiting judgment, with the electricity that powers that hard drive (the spirit), which went back to God the minute the person died.

    Do you see THREE things?

    1. The body – which counts for nothing and decays.

    2. The soul – which is the hard drive shelved until judgment day.

    3. The spirit – which is the electricity that USED TO power the hard drive before it was shelved. It went back to the God who gave it.

    #309738
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,16:32)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,12:02)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,11:14)
    1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
    The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.”


    Btw Wakeup, in verse 13, the medium actually says, “I see a god (elohim) coming up out of the ground.”


    Mike

    do gods comes out of the ground ???


    Are you asking ME that question, Pierre? Perhaps you should be asking it to whoever wrote 1 Samuel. All I've done is quote what the scripture says.

    #309740
    terraricca
    Participant

    Mike

    Quote
    Pierre, our difference is that you see the thing that goes back to God as the part that is “filled with what we have done”.  I don't.  I see that part as the soul which goes to Sheol to await judgment at a later time.

    I do not see that their is any electricity ,God can take our breath away and we are no more ,or can claim our soul and so are no more ;in a living state that is ;

    just understand the purpose of men ,what is it ??? to become rich ? to enslave is alike ?? to subdue their alike ?? to make a name for himself ?? to invent new stuff ?? to kill others ?? OR IS IT TO RECONCIELE HIMSELVE WITH HIS CREATOR ?? AND WHAT IS THERE IN MEN THAT CAN BE SAVED IS IT NOT THE SOUL ,AND WHY WOULD GOD NEED A SPIRIT WHEN HE OLD OUR SOUL THAT HE ALONE CAN DESTROY? ,MANY ANGELS ARE AROUND US AND SEE WHAT WE DO AND WHAT WE DO NOT DO AND SHOULD ,ONE WORD TO THEM AND WE WOULD BE FINISH,
    all animals have a soul even God as one ,the bad and the good all are breathing the same air ,but do not have the same input in the soul, WHAT IS GOING BACK TO GOD IS OUR SOUL ,GOD IS THE ONE THAT HAS GIVEN IT TO US ,AND SO RETURN ,

    ALSO NOTICE THE WORDS OF CHRIST THAT “MEN DOES NOT LIVE ONLY ON BREAD ,BUT ON EVERY WORD OF GOD ” AND THIS FOOD CAN ONLY BE STORED IN THE SOUL,IT COULD BE THAT GOD CAN SEE US THE WAY WE ARE AND SEE OUR SOUL THIS I DO NOT KNOW ,BUT ALL WILL BE JUDGED BY OUR SOUL AND GOD HOLD IT IN HIS HANDS SO TO SPEAK .

    #309743
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,17:13)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 18 2012,14:58)
    Jesus teaches us of Sheol/Hades and the rich man knows torment while Lazarus knows pleasure.  The rich man knows he has brothers and of Lazarus.  So in the parable the dead have knowledge.

    How do these two Scriptures go together?


    I had this discussion once with Istari.  It is MY understanding that the story of Abraham and Lazarus was simply a STORY to illustrate the importance of helping those less fortunate than yourself.  It follows these teachings from Jesus:

    Luke 6
    21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
      for you will be satisfied.

    25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
      for you will go hungry.

    Matthew 25
    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat………..

    Taken literally, the two teachings seem to contradict each other.  This is how I've “solved” this contradiction in my mind.  Perhaps I'm wrong?


    no one but God can help the hungry in the world ,

    remember the perfume on the feet of Jesus ,and the remark for the poor that was made ,

    what the picture of the bad rich man and Lazarus means to me ,is we should not let the ones we meet on a every day bases let die without mercy,

    if it would be something else then I believe we would never make enough money to pay for the need of all the poor ,

    this is a divided responsibility and not easy to solve ,but Christ was more to call poor the people of the kingdom rather than the poor of this world ,

    #309744
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:19)
    no one but God can help the hungry in the world ,


    Pierre, did Jesus encourage us to give to the poor and needy? YES or NO?

    #309745
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:09)
    I do not see that their is any electricity


    Well then, I don't know what to tell you anymore.

    Scripture teaches these things:

    1. The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.

    2. The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.

    3. The BODY counts for nothing and decays.

    #309746
    terraricca
    Participant

    Mike

    Quote
    My original point remains that the soul of Samuel was fast asleep in Sheol, awaiting judgment, when that demon woke him up.

    I do not believe that it was Samuel ,but a demon impersonator ,

    what is this story tells us ;TO GIVE CREDIT TO THE MEDIUMS ??? AND USE THEM FOR THEIR POWERS ??? OR …………………..

    #309747
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    No, we are told specifically to stay away from those who dabble in the black arts. But that doesn't mean the black arts are fake. Consider the girl who had the spirit of prophecy in Acts 16:16-18.

    #309748
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,19:16)
    No, we are told specifically to stay away from those who dabble in the black arts.  But that doesn't mean the black arts are fake.  Consider the girl who had the spirit of prophecy in Acts 16:16-18.


    mike

    I do not say they are fakes in a sens that what they do is powerful ,the illusion is only in the way that they would make them the true god ,what is impossible,

    but we as true believers have to make a choice to serve them or the true God almighty and his son Jesus Christ .and so resist the devil.

    #309749
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,18:21)

    Quote (terraria @ Aug. 18 2012,18:19)
    no one but God can help the hungry in the world ,


    Pierre, did Jesus encourage us to give to the poor and needy?  YES or NO?


    yes he did ,but those who are close by and especially those in the faith ,remember we working for Jesus Christ the son of God and his father , and his work is not to give material food to all men on earth , this is something he will do in time ,

    we have to show to all what we are and who we are ,be a light,show what truth his and how to get it ,share it in every way,be kind,honest,truthful ,ect….

    #309752
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,18:23)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:09)
    I do not see that their is any electricity


    Well then, I don't know what to tell you anymore.

    Scripture teaches these things:

    1.  The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.

    2.  The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.

    3.  The BODY counts for nothing and decays.


    Mike

    EZE 32:30 “There also are the chiefs of the north, all of them, and all the Sidonians, who in spite of the terror resulting from their might, in shame went down with the slain. So they lay down uncircumcised with those slain by the sword and bore their disgrace with those who go down to the pit.

    see this scripture says that the uncircomcised are lay down with those who are slain by the sword ,WOULD THIS MEAN THAT THE RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT LAY DOWN IN THAT PLACE ??? i BELIEVE SO,

    #309756
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,18:23)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:09)
    I do not see that their is any electricity


    Well then, I don't know what to tell you anymore.

    Scripture teaches these things:

    1.  The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.

    2.  The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.

    3.  The BODY counts for nothing and decays.


    ok Mike lets put a scripture to your 3 point ok

    so let see your scriptures ??

    1. The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.

    2. The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.

    3. The BODY counts for nothing and decays.

    #309774
    kerwin
    Participant

    Mike,

    Here is another passage to consider. It is speaking of the son of man; but clearly the body and not the soul.

    Psalm 146:4
    King James Version (KJV)

    4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

    It is my thought the breath = the soul but it is the breath that returns to God while the soul departs to descend to Sheol/Hades.

    I do not see Jesus teaching us falsely about Sheol; even though he is using a parable of it to teach us other things.

    Here is another passage that teaches us that departed souls tremble.

    Job 26:5-6
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    5 “The [a] departed spirits tremble
    Under the waters and their inhabitants.
    6 “Naked is Sheol before Him,
    And [c] Abaddon has no covering.

    Footnotes:

    Job 26:5 Or shades; Heb Rephaim
    Job 26:6 I.e. the nether world
    Job 26:6 I.e. place of destruction

    Here is another one:

    Isaiah 14:9-10
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    9 “ Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come;
    It arouses for you the [a]spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth;
    It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
    10 “ They will all respond and say to you,
    ‘Even you have been made weak as we,
    You have become like us.

    Footnotes:

    Isaiah 14:9 Or shades (Heb Repha’im)
    Isaiah 14:9 Lit male goats

    #309802
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,21:13)
    ok Mike lets put a scripture to your 3 point ok

    so let see your scriptures ??

    1.  The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.

    2.  The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.

    3.  The BODY counts for nothing and decays.


    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    The “dust” refers to the flesh body, which was made from dust, and to dust it returns.

    The spirit, on the other hand, returns to God who gave it.

    Genesis 15
    15 You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age.

    If the dust returns to dust, and the spirit returns to God, then what is left to “go to our fathers”?  It must be the soul.

    Think it out, Pierre.  When the medium raised Samuel from his rest, what do you think was raised?  Could it be his flesh, which had long since decayed?  NO.  Could it be his spirit, which went back to God who gave it the minute he died?  NO.  So what was left to be wakened?

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