Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • #307227
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 26 2012,06:13)
    Kerwin.

    Jesus simply means; before Abraham, I was already in existence,even though I am only 33yrs old.

    What is the fuss.

    wakeup.


    Bravo. :)

    #307232
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2012,01:12)
    T;

    Mankind was created in the form of God; then went in search of many schemes.

    Jesus, like Adam before him, was created in the form of God.

    Adam was created a new man, just as Jesus would later be, but , unlike Jesus, chose to put on the old man when he disobeyed.

    Does Jesus wear the new man created like God in true holiness and righteousness?


    k

    Quote
    Mankind was created in the form of God; then went in search of many schemes.


    this is only true in your understanding not in scriptures

    Quote
    Jesus, like Adam before him, was created in the form of God.

    in this nothing is true to the scriptures,only in your imagination

    Quote
    Adam was created a new man, just as Jesus would later be, but , unlike Jesus, chose to put on the old man when he disobeyed

    Adam was not created a new man he was the first ,and so their was no old man ;Jesus was never a new man ,he even never was a old man ,your invention are getting more and more away from scriptures

    Quote

    Does Jesus wear the new man created like God in true holiness and righteousness?

    like i said before Jesus Christ was never an old or new man ,this is only in your own mind not in scriptures,and if you arrive to be righteous and holy then you are not man driven but are spirit driven and so now are more a spirit than man,

    #307236
    terraricca
    Participant

    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying;
    If anyone follow my words,he will never see death.
    We know we all die; so how can we not see death?
    can you explain?

    wakeup.

    and we know that all of his apostles died right ??? yes

    and the words Jesus said was said to all ,right ??? yes

    what did he mean then with what he said ???

    Jesus said that his father is not the God of the dead but of the living ;and to prove his point he mention that in scriptures it says THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ,ISACC ,AND JACOB,an they all knew they have deceased by then,
    so Jesus pointed out a fact ,that by following his words to God our father and believing in him would allow us to be resurrected for live ,if not we will die as he says in John 3 ,

    Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
    Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
    Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

    pay attention on the last verse and the last few words it says;so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

    understand that this is the foundation to receive our live from God

    Now there is the contrast of things ; Everyone who does evil hates the light; what those words mean ??? evil does not mean criminals,bandits,murderers,thieves ,liars,ect;only,but also those who do not joint God and believe in the grace of him through his son Jesus Christ ,and so have prefer to stay in the dark than coming to the light of Christ the only begotten son of God.TO BE SAVED

    so any one in is live time that comes to Christ and that grow to righteousness and holiness and take it as the purpose of his live on earth as come to the light ,and so will not see dead ,and this means that when you die here you are changed and placed in Gods favor,and Waite for the resurrection in the beginning of the 1000 years of Christ reign,
    this is MY BELIEVE

    #307239
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying;
    If anyone follow my words,he will never see death.
    We know we all die; so how can we not see death?
    can you explain?

    wakeup.


    Terra.

    So? where is your answer to such a simple question?

    wakeup.

    #307243
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying;
    If anyone follow my words,he will never see death.
    We know we all die; so how can we not see death?
    can you explain?

    wakeup.


    Terra.

    So? where is your answer to such a simple question?

    wakeup.


    it was printing while you were posting :D

    #307249
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:25)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying;
    If anyone follow my words,he will never see death.
    We know we all die; so how can we not see death?
    can you explain?

    wakeup.


    Terra.

    So? where is your answer to such a simple question?

    wakeup.


    it was printing while you were posting  :D


    Thank you for such a long answer to such a simple question.

    God is indeed the God of the living.

    But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH?
    How can?

    wakeup.

    #307252
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:49)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:25)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying;
    If anyone follow my words,he will never see death.
    We know we all die; so how can we not see death?
    can you explain?

    wakeup.


    Terra.

    So? where is your answer to such a simple question?

    wakeup.


    it was printing while you were posting  :D


    Thank you for such a long answer to such a simple question.

    God is indeed the God of the living.

    But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH?
    How can?

    wakeup.


    wakeup

    what does it mean NOT SEE DEAD ???

    #307259
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:56)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:49)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,12:25)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 27 2012,19:05)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2012,11:58)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    You quoted in the previous page.Jesus saying;
    If anyone follow my words,he will never see death.
    We know we all die; so how can we not see death?
    can you explain?

    wakeup.


    Terra.

    So? where is your answer to such a simple question?

    wakeup.


    it was printing while you were posting  :D


    Thank you for such a long answer to such a simple question.

    God is indeed the God of the living.

    But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH?
    How can?

    wakeup.


    wakeup

    what does it mean NOT SEE DEAD ???


    Terra.

    It means you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    #307302
    kerwin
    Participant

    Wakeup,

    Quote
    Kerwin.

    Jesus simply means; before Abraham, I was already in existence,even though I am only 33yrs old.

    What is the fuss.

    wakeup.

    That is what the unbelievers thought he was teaching but it is not what he teaches as they bungled the fact Abraham saw Jesus' day through prophecy.  Jesus is instead teaching that before Abraham “to become”, I am.

    The verb “ginomai” Aorist infinitive middle and it does not seem it should translate how certain experts have translated it in John 8:58.  According to what I have heard it is a verb with “to” attached and in some cases does not even speak of a past event.  In addition the subject is acting and receiving the results of that action.

    #307304
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,06:20)

    Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2012,21:18)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2012,08:19)

    I think, therefore I am.  – René Descartes

    Kerwin, can you or Gene tell me what the words “I am” mean in this famous philosophical statement?  (Please just give me a direct and honest answer.)


    Mike,

    He is considering.


    What?   ???

    Do the words “I am” mean “I exist” in that statement, Kerwin?  YES or NO?


    Mike,

    Taken out of context it could mean just as I stated as I used a synonym for think.

    Here is a better example “Before Fred is to think, I am”.

    #307317
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,11:18)
    But it doesn't say “before Abraham I am”, as in “I am before Abraham in position”.  Instead, it says, “before Abraham EXISTED, I have been”.

    In order for “position” to be the meaning here, the word “existed” must vanish from the scripture.  Would you like to re-write the scripture without that word, Gene?  Or is it better that we form our understanding around the words that were actually written?


    Mike………..If iI say Before Abraham EXISTED, I have Been, still does not work for you, because I COULD ASK YOU , I have “been” what ? In the plan and will of GOD ? Mentioned in scripture ? was Prophesied about? and on and on it goes. Don't you see you Preexistences are forcing the text to meet you dogmas?.

    That should have answered you question Mike. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours Brother……………………………………….gene

    #307318
    terraricca
    Participant

    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    It means you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD ???

    #307333
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    It means  you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD ???


    Terra.

    Now you are answering a question with a question.
    Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath.

    wakeup.

    #307337
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    It means  you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD ???


    Terra.

    Now you are answering a question with a question.
    Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath.

    wakeup.


    wakeup

    if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob.
    this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH
    please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead ???

    #307340
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2012,20:21)
    Wakeup,

    Quote
    Kerwin.

    Jesus simply means; before Abraham, I was already in existence,even though I am only 33yrs old.

    What is the fuss.

    wakeup.

    That is what the unbelievers thought he was teaching but it is not what he teaches as they bungled the fact Abraham saw Jesus' day through prophecy.  Jesus is instead teaching that before Abraham “to become”, I am.

    The verb “ginomai” Aorist infinitive middle and it does not seem it should translate how certain experts have translated it in John 8:58.  According to what I have heard it is a verb with “to” attached and in some cases does not even speak of a past event.  In addition the subject is acting and receiving the results of that action.


    Kerwin.

    Abraham could not have seen Jesus day in prophesy,because there are no books written in abrahams day.he was before all the prophets,exept Enoch,the 7th from Adam.
    So he must have seen it in a vision.

    wakeup.

    #307380
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,10:30)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    It means  you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD ???


    Terra.

    Now you are answering a question with a question.
    Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath.

    wakeup.


    wakeup

    if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob.
    this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH
    please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead ???


    Terricca…………Because God is SPIRIT and Spirit (IS) Life, God can not be the God of the dead, because they are “DEAD”. And as a result of being dead they have no Spirit (IN) them. When a person dies their Sprit returns to him who gave it and is Kept by Him , remember Jesus said “Father i commend My Spirit unto You. But Jesus the man died his Spirit was kept in tack by God who raised up his Body and put his spirit back into it, Just as all the restrictions of the dead will have happen to them. Spirit are in a “SENSE” like a record or cassette, They can be taken out of Player and they are no longer Hear . they can be placed on a shelf for a long time and then put back into a Player (i.e a Body) and played again. But when they are stored they are not performing . So it is when we die , that is why Paul said for we hope for the “resurrection” that will (WITNESS) the redemption of our “BODIES” . Just as a record cannot be played without a player. The potential is there but without a Body to animate it is useless. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………….gene

    #307383
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,05:38)

    Kerwin.

    Abraham could not have seen Jesus day in prophesy,because there are no books written in abrahams day.he was before all the prophets,exept Enoch,the 7th from Adam.
    So he must have seen it in a vision.

    wakeup.


    Wakeup,

    Scripture does call Abraham a prophet; though he is better known as a patriarch.

    What I was addressing is that the prophets, including Abraham discerned when and what Jesus' day was.  I do not known how they saw it except that it was through the Spirit.

    #307385
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2012,20:35)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,10:30)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    It means  you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD ???


    Terra.

    Now you are answering a question with a question.
    Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath.

    wakeup.


    wakeup

    if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob.
    this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH
    please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead ???


    Terricca…………Because God is SPIRIT and Spirit (IS) Life,  God can not be the God of the dead, because they are “DEAD”. And as a result of being dead they have no Spirit (IN) them.  When a person dies their Sprit returns to him who gave it and is Kept by Him , remember Jesus said “Father i commend My Spirit unto You. But Jesus the man died his Spirit was kept in tack by God who raised up his Body and put his spirit back into it, Just as all the restrictions of the dead will have happen to them.  Spirit are in a “SENSE”  like a record or cassette,  They can be taken out of Player and they are no longer Hear . they can be placed on a shelf for a long time and then put back into a Player (i.e a Body) and played again.  But when they are stored they are not performing . So it is when we die , that is why Paul said for we hope for the “resurrection” that will (WITNESS) the redemption of our “BODIES” . Just as a record cannot be played  without a player. The potential is there  but without a Body to animate it is useless.  IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………….gene


    gene

    it is difficult for someone to understand those things that are only understood by the understanding of the meaning of scriptures that God as allowed us to understand those are the spirits,

    the fact that God his a spirit as nothing to do with it because Jesus did not talk about spirit beings but about human BEINGS,ABRAHAM, ISAAC,JACOB,

    IF THE SPIRIT HIS LIVE ,WHAT WOULD BE THAT SPIRIT ???

    #307399
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2012,13:35)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,10:30)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    It means  you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD ???


    Terra.

    Now you are answering a question with a question.
    Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath.

    wakeup.


    wakeup

    if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob.
    this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH
    please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead ???


    Terricca…………Because God is SPIRIT and Spirit (IS) Life,  God can not be the God of the dead, because they are “DEAD”. And as a result of being dead they have no Spirit (IN) them.  When a person dies their Sprit returns to him who gave it and is Kept by Him , remember Jesus said “Father i commend My Spirit unto You. But Jesus the man died his Spirit was kept in tack by God who raised up his Body and put his spirit back into it, Just as all the restrictions of the dead will have happen to them.  Spirit are in a “SENSE”  like a record or cassette,  They can be taken out of Player and they are no longer Hear . they can be placed on a shelf for a long time and then put back into a Player (i.e a Body) and played again.  But when they are stored they are not performing . So it is when we die , that is why Paul said for we hope for the “resurrection” that will (WITNESS) the redemption of our “BODIES” . Just as a record cannot be played  without a player. The potential is there  but without a Body to animate it is useless.  IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………….gene


    GeneB.

    That cassette player and the cassette,is a real good one.
    I like that.
    If we are truly in Christ we shall not see death.
    We know that the wicked has to suffer first before they die.
    But with the true believers that will not be so.

    They simply go to sleep and pass away; to them it is the same day that they will wake up,in the resurrection.
    Even though time on earth has gone past many years.
    The dead stop counting the days and years.

    wakeup.

    #307414
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,15:23)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2012,20:35)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,10:30)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 28 2012,17:22)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 28 2012,01:26)
    wakeup

    Quote
    Terra.

    It means  you shall not SEE DEATH.
    How shall we not SEE death?

    ok, so next question “WHAT IS DEAD ???


    Terra.

    Now you are answering a question with a question.
    Death means when you stop living,when you give up your last breath.

    wakeup.


    wakeup

    if this is so ;then why scriptures is saying that God is the God of the living the God of Abraham ,Isaac ,and Jacob.
    this is the answer you seek;But Jesus said you will not SEE DEATH
    please tell me how that works in your view that we stop breathing and we dead ???


    Terricca…………Because God is SPIRIT and Spirit (IS) Life,  God can not be the God of the dead, because they are “DEAD”. And as a result of being dead they have no Spirit (IN) them.  When a person dies their Sprit returns to him who gave it and is Kept by Him , remember Jesus said “Father i commend My Spirit unto You. But Jesus the man died his Spirit was kept in tack by God who raised up his Body and put his spirit back into it, Just as all the restrictions of the dead will have happen to them.  Spirit are in a “SENSE”  like a record or cassette,  They can be taken out of Player and they are no longer Hear . they can be placed on a shelf for a long time and then put back into a Player (i.e a Body) and played again.  But when they are stored they are not performing . So it is when we die , that is why Paul said for we hope for the “resurrection” that will (WITNESS) the redemption of our “BODIES” . Just as a record cannot be played  without a player. The potential is there  but without a Body to animate it is useless.  IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………….gene


    gene

    it is difficult for someone to understand those things that are only understood by the understanding of the meaning of scriptures that God as allowed us to understand those are the spirits,

    the fact that God his a spirit as nothing to do with it because Jesus did not talk about spirit beings but about human BEINGS,ABRAHAM, ISAAC,JACOB,

    IF THE SPIRIT HIS LIVE ,WHAT WOULD BE THAT SPIRIT ???


    Terricca………….What did Jesus says Spirit was?, the words I am telling you “ARE” Spirit and “ARE” Life. Just that simple Life is what Spirit is , and our words express that Spiirt life that is “IN” us. Get it?

    The Flesh is not the life that is in it, that the life, is the  kind or type of spirit IN IT.  When we die our Spirit does not die it goes into a state of unconsciousness or inactivity we are unaware of anything until a New is regenerated and our  Spirits are added back into them. That is called the resurrection of the dead . What does Scripture say , the dead know nothing, in the day they die their “thought” Parish. And again scripture shows there is No activity (IN) the grave Just as it say in scripture the is no work or thoughts taking place when a person dies. Need Scripture ? I have posted them many times here.

    Abraham,  Isaac,  Jacob are all still asleep or inactive without consciousness they are waiting the “RESURRECTION” back to Life again  with a body Just as Jesus the first to achieve that goal from the grave has. God has made it that none of the Patriarchs and Prophets will become “LIVINGS SOULS” again without us also. as Scripture say . When are you people going to start to believe there is a resurrection of the “DEAD” ?

    peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………….gen

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